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Offline mclees8

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popes encyclical
« on: Thu Jun 18, 2015 - 21:52:27 »
Pope castigates world and big business for green house gases that calls for a revolution for climate change.

Is this what Jesus was about. Was Jesus about the affairs of this world that he said would come to judgment in Gods time. So who is the pope then waving and using the Bible as gavel against the worlds greed's and apathy's about the balances of nature. Was this not all going to be judged. Did not Jesus teach us not to love the world but to look to His second coming.  Is their any instruction from Christ that his church was to be God upon the earth. This is the Papal position that says it is about Christ on one hand and about world affairs  with the other. Did not Jesus pray to the Father in John 17:9 I pray for them ( the disciples ) I pray not for the world. This is in the Bible that the pope waves to a world that is not about Christ or ever has been.   Judgment is coming to Babylon and the Church that sleeps with it. This is the church that will be destroyed prior to the second coming of Christ to gather his bride and angels come with the bowls of Gods wrath. Does not the pope know the Bible yet heeds it not.  The Vatican is blinded by its own greed for it position of power.
« Last Edit: Thu Jun 18, 2015 - 21:59:51 by mclees8 »

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popes encyclical
« on: Thu Jun 18, 2015 - 21:52:27 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 06:20:04 »
There is irony in the fact that those on the left who advocate for drastic measures to curb so-called global warming are the very ones who will scream bloody murder against just about everything else the pope will say, including his words on faith, on abortion, etc.

But I agree that it was foolish of the pope to come out with this.  I would hope that he realizes that following his advice would condemn about a third of the world population to remaining abysmally poor with little hope of improvement.  Their only hope in that regard is cheap energy that is consistently available.  The only two sources that fit that are fossil and nuclear.  Wind and solar simply don't cut it.  And so far biofuels have only exacerbated the CO2 problem while raising the cost of available energy.

But I am not surprised by the Pope's feelings about it.  His is a South American Socialist background.  We know how that has gone.

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 06:20:04 »

Offline mclees8

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #2 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 07:28:29 »
There is irony in the fact that those on the left who advocate for drastic measures to curb so-called global warming are the very ones who will scream bloody murder against just about everything else the pope will say, including his words on faith, on abortion, etc.

But I agree that it was foolish of the pope to come out with this.  I would hope that he realizes that following his advice would condemn about a third of the world population to remaining abysmally poor with little hope of improvement.  Their only hope in that regard is cheap energy that is consistently available.  The only two sources that fit that are fossil and nuclear.  Wind and solar simply don't cut it.  And so far biofuels have only exacerbated the CO2 problem while raising the cost of available energy.

But I am not surprised by the Pope's feelings about it.  His is a South American Socialist background.  We know how that has gone.

You are I believe a follower of Christ and His gospel. What do you, and what do we have to do with any of these issues.  Sin is in the world that despises Christ and His sacrifice and once we were of it, but now we are of a better promise. The world as it is being in Babylon is going to be judged and the church that looks to politics and men to solve problems far to great for it to solve are not praying for Him to come. So again what does Christ have to do with that. He will fix the world after the ax has been laid to the root.

Offline 4WD

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 07:41:09 »
There is irony in the fact that those on the left who advocate for drastic measures to curb so-called global warming are the very ones who will scream bloody murder against just about everything else the pope will say, including his words on faith, on abortion, etc.

But I agree that it was foolish of the pope to come out with this.  I would hope that he realizes that following his advice would condemn about a third of the world population to remaining abysmally poor with little hope of improvement.  Their only hope in that regard is cheap energy that is consistently available.  The only two sources that fit that are fossil and nuclear.  Wind and solar simply don't cut it.  And so far biofuels have only exacerbated the CO2 problem while raising the cost of available energy.

But I am not surprised by the Pope's feelings about it.  His is a South American Socialist background.  We know how that has gone.

You are I believe a follower of Christ and His gospel. What do you, and what do we have to do with any of these issues.  Sin is in the world that despises Christ and His sacrifice and once we were of it, but now we are of a better promise. The world as it is being in Babylon is going to be judged and the church that looks to politics and men to solve problems far to great for it to solve are not praying for Him to come. So again what does Christ have to do with that. He will fix the world after the ax has been laid to the root.

First, it seems to me that we are to be good stewards of what God has given us.  We need to be concerned about the poor and the unfortunate.  That really means more than just giving beggars a handout. I think the Pope is badly misinformed about how much fossil fuels have contributed to lifting the worlds poor out of poverty and hardship.  It is the critical ingredient for that.  Without readily and consistently available cheap energy from fossil fuel, we would all still be struggling with subsistence farming on a hundred acres and a team of horses with the help of as many kids as survived their first couple of years.

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change? 

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 07:41:09 »

Offline winsome

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 09:44:18 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 09:44:18 »



Offline 4WD

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #5 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 10:29:20 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I agree that sin or sinning has nothing to do with global warming or climate change. But I also think on climate change the Pope is wrong.

There is an interesting book, "The Moral Case For Fossil Fuel" by Alex Epstein.  The Pope should read it.  Perhaps you could suggest it to him.

Offline Catholica

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #6 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 11:03:44 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I agree that sin or sinning has nothing to do with global warming or climate change. But I also think on climate change the Pope is wrong.

There is an interesting book, "The Moral Case For Fossil Fuel" by Alex Epstein.  The Pope should read it.  Perhaps you could suggest it to him.

What exactly did the Pope write that you disagree with, and why?  Not challenging, just curious. 

The pope can be wrong when it comes to science, and we can definitely discuss such things.

Offline mclees8

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #7 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 11:11:09 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 11:19:44 by mclees8 »

Offline mclees8

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #8 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 14:30:21 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!

Is there not even one who will understand and give an Amen. The church is in trouble today and concerned for things that Christ was not about.   We are no longer looking for His return but want to fix the world that can never be fixed by sinful man.  Not one will say its true?

Offline Catholica

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #9 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 14:54:39 »
But I agree that it was foolish of the pope to come out with this.  I would hope that he realizes that following his advice would condemn about a third of the world population to remaining abysmally poor with little hope of improvement.  Their only hope in that regard is cheap energy that is consistently available.  The only two sources that fit that are fossil and nuclear.  Wind and solar simply don't cut it.  And so far biofuels have only exacerbated the CO2 problem while raising the cost of available energy.

I guess I'm not sure of which advice you are speaking.  I have read the document in fits and starts.  He doesn't every bring up wind power and solar power is mentioned, but he tempers it referring to (if I remember correctly) needs to advance the technology to make the transition affordable.  There is mention to nuclear but I'm not sure it's with regard to power, though I agree that nuclear power is the way to go.  Fossil fuels are bad for the environment, but each to it's own degree. 

Here is an excerpt of something of interest:

52.The foreign debt of poor countries has become a way of controlling them, yet this is not the case where ecological debt is concerned. In different ways, developing countries, where the most important reserves of the biosphere are found, continue to fuel the development of richer countries at the cost of their own present and future. The land of the southern poor is rich and mostly unpolluted, yet access to ownership of goods and resources for meeting vital needs is inhibited by a system of commercial relations and ownership which is structurally perverse. The developed countries ought to help pay this debt by significantly limiting their consumption of non-renewable energy and by assisting poorer countries to support policies and programmes of sustainable development. The poorest areas and countries are less capable of adopting new models for reducing environmental impact because they lack the wherewithal to develop the necessary processes and to cover their costs. We must continue to be aware that, regarding climate change, there are differentiated responsibilities. As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”.31 We need to strengthen the conviction that we are one single human family. There are no frontiers or barriers, political or social, behind which we can hide, still less is there room for the globalization of indifference.

31 United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Global Climate Change: A Plea for Dialogue, Prudence and the Common Good (15 June 2001).

Offline skeeter

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #10 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 15:03:34 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #11 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 15:29:33 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?

Offline kensington

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #12 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 15:35:10 »
We must resign ourselves to knowing that there will never be nor has there ever been, a Pope who is completely in line with the Word of God.   For He aligns himself first with the Catholic Church and thus lives by the rule of the Catechism before the Word of God.


Offline mclees8

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #13 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 18:50:51 »
But I agree that it was foolish of the pope to come out with this.  I would hope that he realizes that following his advice would condemn about a third of the world population to remaining abysmally poor with little hope of improvement.  Their only hope in that regard is cheap energy that is consistently available.  The only two sources that fit that are fossil and nuclear.  Wind and solar simply don't cut it.  And so far biofuels have only exacerbated the CO2 problem while raising the cost of available energy.

I guess I'm not sure of which advice you are speaking.  I have read the document in fits and starts.  He doesn't every bring up wind power and solar power is mentioned, but he tempers it referring to (if I remember correctly) needs to advance the technology to make the transition affordable.  There is mention to nuclear but I'm not sure it's with regard to power, though I agree that nuclear power is the way to go.  Fossil fuels are bad for the environment, but each to it's own degree. 

Here is an excerpt of something of interest:

52.The foreign debt of poor countries has become a way of controlling them, yet this is not the case where ecological debt is concerned. In different ways, developing countries, where the most important reserves of the biosphere are found, continue to fuel the development of richer countries at the cost of their own present and future. The land of the southern poor is rich and mostly unpolluted, yet access to ownership of goods and resources for meeting vital needs is inhibited by a system of commercial relations and ownership which is structurally perverse. The developed countries ought to help pay this debt by significantly limiting their consumption of non-renewable energy and by assisting poorer countries to support policies and programmes of sustainable development. The poorest areas and countries are less capable of adopting new models for reducing environmental impact because they lack the wherewithal to develop the necessary processes and to cover their costs. We must continue to be aware that, regarding climate change, there are differentiated responsibilities. As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”.31 We need to strengthen the conviction that we are one single human family. There are no frontiers or barriers, political or social, behind which we can hide, still less is there room for the globalization of indifference.

31 United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Global Climate Change: A Plea for Dialogue, Prudence and the Common Good (15 June 2001).

I guess I should not be surprised but I shake my head none the less. Since when did Jesus found his church on climate problems. Everything I ever learned in my Bible says the church was about saving the lost. You will not find anything In our New Testament that instructs the church sits as a power broker for God.

We are to be about the needs of the poor but the church was not about running the world like to change things religiously and politically. Don't get me wrong. The problem of the poor has always been And if Jesus wanted he could have followed the devils offer to rule the world and there would have been no more poverty. But Jesus said no to that offer to do the will of the Father because the need was man needed a sacrificial lamb to suffer for our sins. Im sure Jesus could have said peace be still and the climate problem would have just melted away. He could have put an end to polluting the air. and made all government honest. Isn't that what the world wants and isn't that what the pope is trying to be. God of the earth. 

Offline Ladonia

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #14 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 21:10:07 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?

Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #15 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 21:14:21 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!

Is there not even one who will understand and give an Amen. The church is in trouble today and concerned for things that Christ was not about.   We are no longer looking for His return but want to fix the world that can never be fixed by sinful man.  Not one will say its true?

Where have you been? Nice to see that you are still on fire for  Jesus's  Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church! ::clappingoverhead:: (Some things never change)

Buster D Body Crab

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #16 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 21:20:27 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?

Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.

Deflecting to Protestant preachers doesn't accomplish a thing here.
Not one of those who are featured in "Preachers of LA" and are as you describe, wrote the Popes Encyclical. Please stick to the topic.

Offline doorknocker

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #17 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 21:26:11 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!



Amen !

Offline mclees8

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #18 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 21:27:44 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!

Is there not even one who will understand and give an Amen. The church is in trouble today and concerned for things that Christ was not about.   We are no longer looking for His return but want to fix the world that can never be fixed by sinful man.  Not one will say its true?

Where have you been? Nice to see that you are still on fire for  Jesus's  Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church! ::clappingoverhead:: (Some things never change)

Hi Ladonia. Still here I see and yes you are so right. Some things never change.  When was the Last time you prayed for Jesus return, or are you still thinking the pope is going to fix things.  Some things never change.  ::frown::

Offline 4WD

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #19 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 21:52:41 »
But I agree that it was foolish of the pope to come out with this.  I would hope that he realizes that following his advice would condemn about a third of the world population to remaining abysmally poor with little hope of improvement.  Their only hope in that regard is cheap energy that is consistently available.  The only two sources that fit that are fossil and nuclear.  Wind and solar simply don't cut it.  And so far biofuels have only exacerbated the CO2 problem while raising the cost of available energy.

I guess I'm not sure of which advice you are speaking.  I have read the document in fits and starts.  He doesn't every bring up wind power and solar power is mentioned, but he tempers it referring to (if I remember correctly) needs to advance the technology to make the transition affordable.  There is mention to nuclear but I'm not sure it's with regard to power, though I agree that nuclear power is the way to go.  Fossil fuels are bad for the environment, but each to it's own degree. 

Here is an excerpt of something of interest:

52.The foreign debt of poor countries has become a way of controlling them, yet this is not the case where ecological debt is concerned. In different ways, developing countries, where the most important reserves of the biosphere are found, continue to fuel the development of richer countries at the cost of their own present and future. The land of the southern poor is rich and mostly unpolluted, yet access to ownership of goods and resources for meeting vital needs is inhibited by a system of commercial relations and ownership which is structurally perverse. The developed countries ought to help pay this debt by significantly limiting their consumption of non-renewable energy and by assisting poorer countries to support policies and programmes of sustainable development. The poorest areas and countries are less capable of adopting new models for reducing environmental impact because they lack the wherewithal to develop the necessary processes and to cover their costs. We must continue to be aware that, regarding climate change, there are differentiated responsibilities. As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”.31 We need to strengthen the conviction that we are one single human family. There are no frontiers or barriers, political or social, behind which we can hide, still less is there room for the globalization of indifference.

31 United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Global Climate Change: A Plea for Dialogue, Prudence and the Common Good (15 June 2001).

The U.S. has perhaps some of the best environmental conditions of any country with any significant population in the whole of the planet .  That comes directly from the availability of cheap, consistent supply of energy.  It takes energy, and relatively lots of it,to clean the air, clean the water and remove the waste. It will take lots of energy to raise the standard of living of the peoples across the planet.  And that will happen only if there is lots of cheap energy available.  The needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable will be met much more quickly with cheap fossil fuel. It would help if more nuclear energy was being made available.  And it wouldn't have to be nuclear energy derived from Uranium either.  It could be from the Thorium cycle, which does not have some of the nasty waste problems of the Uranium cycle.

The simple truth is that if the U.S. completely stopped the production of all CO2, the change in CO2 levels around the planet would not be enough to change the temperature even a fraction of a degree over the next 20 years or so.  Moreover, CO2 is simply not the hugely influential greenhouse gas it is made out to be.  Plain old water vapor, humidity in the air, is an order of magnitude more effective greenhouse gas than CO2.  Water vapor makes up over 95% of all greenhouse gas.  All the rest of the greenhouse gases together account for the other less than 5%.

« Last Edit: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 22:11:04 by 4WD »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #20 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 21:54:27 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!

Is there not even one who will understand and give an Amen. The church is in trouble today and concerned for things that Christ was not about.   We are no longer looking for His return but want to fix the world that can never be fixed by sinful man.  Not one will say its true?

Where have you been? Nice to see that you are still on fire for  Jesus's  Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church! ::clappingoverhead:: (Some things never change)

Hi Ladonia. Still here I see and yes you are so right. Some things never change.  When was the Last time you prayed for Jesus return, or are you still thinking the pope is going to fix things.  Some things never change.  ::frown::

I am constantly praying for Jesus to help me in this life AND his return to set things straight down here.  As for the Pope, he can only do the same, pray for God's help in every facet of our earthly lives. But even though I do not agree with his viewpoint of the "climate change" hoax, he does have the same right as every other person alive has, to speak his mind on the issue. When he teaches that Jesus died for us I believe him, but when he teaches about "climate change", I simply do not.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #21 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 21:59:22 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?

Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.

Deflecting to Protestant preachers doesn't accomplish a thing here.
Not one of those who are featured in "Preachers of LA" and are as you describe, wrote the Popes Encyclical. Please stick to the topic.

Oh I see, only the Pope and the Catholic Church can be castigated for having monetary wealth, but no one else.

The amount of wealth the Catholic Church has, and the way some of it's clergy live, has no relevance on this issue. Your post was just a cheap shot, nothing more. ::frown::

« Last Edit: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 22:01:46 by Ladonia »

Buster D Body Crab

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #22 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 22:27:26 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?

Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.

Deflecting to Protestant preachers doesn't accomplish a thing here.
Not one of those who are featured in "Preachers of LA" and are as you describe, wrote the Popes Encyclical. Please stick to the topic.

Oh I see, only the Pope and the Catholic Church can be castigated for having monetary wealth, but no one else.

The amount of wealth the Catholic Church has, and the way some of it's clergy live, has no relevance on this issue. Your post was just a cheap shot, nothing more. ::frown::
No, actually the cheap shot was to go off topic and slam Protestant pastors so as to get away from what was previously said about the wealth of the RCC in a thread that is about the popes Encyclical. While what was said with regard to that was how the RCC could help the poor.

Deflecting that conversation so as to slam Protestant pastors is the cheap shot after it is off topic. If you can't discuss the topic without hating on Protestants maybe you should seek elsewhere.


Offline skeeter

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #23 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 23:08:10 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?
Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.
anyone can call themselves a  'pastor' just as anyone can call themselves a Christian...
I've heard of one w/ the multi M $ jet on the news. He's on TV.  I never watch him.  There are a lot of fakes.  Some are outright creepy.  If one doesn't check on them and what they teach, they can be fooled.  Jesus and the apostles warned about them.

What kind of a jet does the pope have? know how much it cost?

Offline Ladonia

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #24 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 23:20:44 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?
Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.
anyone can call themselves a  'pastor' just as anyone can call themselves a Christian...
I've heard of one w/ the multi M $ jet on the news. He's on TV.  I never watch him.  There are a lot of fakes.  Some are outright creepy.  If one doesn't check on them and what they teach, they can be fooled.  Jesus and the apostles warned about them.

What kind of a jet does the pope have? know how much it cost?

The Pope does not have his own jet. I believe when he travels he flies on an Alitalia (the Italian national airline) jet. And it wouldn't surprise me if this Pope would fly on a regularly scheduled commercial jet. One thing about Pope Francis, he cannot be labeled as ostentatious.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #25 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 23:25:26 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?

Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.

Deflecting to Protestant preachers doesn't accomplish a thing here.
Not one of those who are featured in "Preachers of LA" and are as you describe, wrote the Popes Encyclical. Please stick to the topic.

Oh I see, only the Pope and the Catholic Church can be castigated for having monetary wealth, but no one else.

The amount of wealth the Catholic Church has, and the way some of it's clergy live, has no relevance on this issue. Your post was just a cheap shot, nothing more. ::frown::
No, actually the cheap shot was to go off topic and slam Protestant pastors so as to get away from what was previously said about the wealth of the RCC in a thread that is about the popes Encyclical. While what was said with regard to that was how the RCC could help the poor.

Deflecting that conversation so as to slam Protestant pastors is the cheap shot after it is off topic. If you can't discuss the topic without hating on Protestants maybe you should seek elsewhere.
 

A thread about the Pope's encyclical has nothing to do with how much money the Catholic Church has - nothing whatsoever. And yes, my cheap shot was in response to your cheap shot. So as you say, let's keep on topic shall we - the Pope's encyclical.

And you know, as far as helping the poor, the Catholic Church takes no back seat to other Christian organizations. But really, I am getting tired of this Catholic bashing from you and others who seem to come here just for that purpose. Why don't YOU take your hatred somewhere else? I don't go to the other sections here at Christian Forums and bash you, I only defend the Church against the likes of you who make a conscious effort to come here. Now have a nice evening!
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 23:36:19 by Ladonia »

Buster D Body Crab

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #26 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 23:27:07 »
Yes, well, the public learned in 08 during Benedicts reign that the Boeing 777 Alitalia is the papal plane and is especially outfitted for the pope.
So if Francis flies Alitalia he flies that papal plane.

Buster D Body Crab

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #27 on: Fri Jun 19, 2015 - 23:38:30 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?

Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.

Deflecting to Protestant preachers doesn't accomplish a thing here.
Not one of those who are featured in "Preachers of LA" and are as you describe, wrote the Popes Encyclical. Please stick to the topic.

Oh I see, only the Pope and the Catholic Church can be castigated for having monetary wealth, but no one else.

The amount of wealth the Catholic Church has, and the way some of it's clergy live, has no relevance on this issue. Your post was just a cheap shot, nothing more. ::frown::
No, actually the cheap shot was to go off topic and slam Protestant pastors so as to get away from what was previously said about the wealth of the RCC in a thread that is about the popes Encyclical. While what was said with regard to that was how the RCC could help the poor.

Deflecting that conversation so as to slam Protestant pastors is the cheap shot after it is off topic. If you can't discuss the topic without hating on Protestants maybe you should seek elsewhere.
 

A thread about the Pope's encyclical has nothing to do with how much money the Catholic Church has - nothing whatsoever. And yes, my cheap shot was in response to your cheap shot. So as you say, let's keep on topic shall we - the Pope's encyclical.


Maybe you should do the research on what the Encyclical entails. To say money has no relationship to it at all is to declare great ignorance on the matter.

Your cheap shot was yours alone. If you can't address the topic without hating on Protestants you should seek elsewhere.

Maybe a link that informs your ignorance of what Encyclicals are would be a good start.
Unless Francis is blowing hot air talking about all that need be done in matters of climate change, growing poverty due to environmental degradation, etc... while planning nothing at all as to committing to bolster those areas of lack or degradation, which naturally require money, then there is a problem.

Talking about the problems without offering to invest in the solutions is cheap talk. The prayers that go up from those who are suffering as he outlined in his Encyclical are still begging for relief. If gold and silk clad spiritual leaders don't plan on investing any more than prayers for a situation that they outlined in numerous pages they're not solving the problem. They're enumerating it so as to define suffering in a nutshell. And without financial support to change what can be changed they're doing nothing but that.
If prayers alone filled shrinking bellies there would be no starving people in this world.



Offline skeeter

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #28 on: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 00:29:05 »
Quote
' As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”. '
good, they can start by selling their mansions around the country and giving the money to the poor.  That would also cut their costs for heating, cooling and housekeepers.  Maybe they should learn to clean and cook for themselves too.
Indeed. The Vatican bank could cut a check and feed all the poor in a major city in the U.S. so as to put action behind this rhetoric.
Sell the private Vatican jet and fly commercial. Sell the Vatican helicopter too. All the limousines. Have the Bishops live in the Rectory with the other priests in every American parish. Cardinals too. After all they remember what those residences were like so they'd be right at home there.
Remove all the gold icons from all the American RC churches that have them and give that money from the sale of that precious metal to the poor in that parish. Start homeless shelters sponsored by the church. Food kitchens.

Jesus Christ did not have a place to lay his head. And he and his disciples walked wherever they went.

Christ-like. Right?

Yep, just like the pastors who walk around in $1000.00 suits, live in palatial mansions, and fly in 64 million dollar private jets.  All completely necessary to spread the good news of Jesus Christ I am sure.

Deflecting to Protestant preachers doesn't accomplish a thing here.
Not one of those who are featured in "Preachers of LA" and are as you describe, wrote the Popes Encyclical. Please stick to the topic.

Oh I see, only the Pope and the Catholic Church can be castigated for having monetary wealth, but no one else.

The amount of wealth the Catholic Church has, and the way some of it's clergy live, has no relevance on this issue. Your post was just a cheap shot, nothing more. ::frown::
No, actually the cheap shot was to go off topic and slam Protestant pastors so as to get away from what was previously said about the wealth of the RCC in a thread that is about the popes Encyclical. While what was said with regard to that was how the RCC could help the poor.

Deflecting that conversation so as to slam Protestant pastors is the cheap shot after it is off topic. If you can't discuss the topic without hating on Protestants maybe you should seek elsewhere.
 

A thread about the Pope's encyclical has nothing to do with how much money the Catholic Church has - nothing whatsoever. And yes, my cheap shot was in response to your cheap shot. So as you say, let's keep on topic shall we - the Pope's encyclical.

And you know, as far as helping the poor, the Catholic Church takes no back seat to other Christian organizations. But really, I am getting tired of this Catholic bashing from you and others who seem to come here just for that purpose. Why don't YOU take your hatred somewhere else? I don't go to the other sections here at Christian Forums and bash you, I only defend the Church against the likes of you who make a conscious effort to come here. Now have a nice evening!
buck up.  If you consider things said here 'bashing',  how do you deal with the real world?
How about comments by you and other Catholics about protestants?  and those that aren't  but you call them that.  We just don't whine about it.

things would probably go a lot smoother if you'd just answer questions asked instead of not and then deflecting the topic...

Offline Paulus

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #29 on: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 02:56:48 »


Deflecting that conversation so as to slam Protestant pastors is the cheap shot after it is off topic. If you can't discuss the topic without hating on Protestants maybe you should seek elsewhere.

Come off it mate !

Get real !

This forum is riddled with cheap shot , off topic posts from a minority of Protestants who are overflowing with vitriol and hatred for Catholics .

And what sad people they are !

Thank God that the Protestants I know in the real world are imbued with a spirit of love and tolerance , rather than with the nonsense Protestants on here are imbued with .
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 12:52:13 by Paulus »

Offline mclees8

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #30 on: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 05:53:47 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!

Is there not even one who will understand and give an Amen. The church is in trouble today and concerned for things that Christ was not about.   We are no longer looking for His return but want to fix the world that can never be fixed by sinful man.  Not one will say its true?

Where have you been? Nice to see that you are still on fire for  Jesus's  Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church! ::clappingoverhead:: (Some things never change)

Hi Ladonia. Still here I see and yes you are so right. Some things never change.  When was the Last time you prayed for Jesus return, or are you still thinking the pope is going to fix things.  Some things never change.  ::frown::

I am constantly praying for Jesus to help me in this life AND his return to set things straight down here.  As for the Pope, he can only do the same, pray for God's help in every facet of our earthly lives. But even though I do not agree with his viewpoint of the "climate change" hoax, he does have the same right as every other person alive has, to speak his mind on the issue. When he teaches that Jesus died for us I believe him, but when he teaches about "climate change", I simply do not.

Well then if you pray for Jesus to come then I am with you. You say you are with the pope when he teaches Jesus died for us he has done no more than any true disciple of Christ would do. If I say Jesus died for us would not then believe me to. The pope is trying to play God. Can you see that?  He is just a man who sits in a seat of power and his position is in the world. How is it you respect him for preaching Jesus and turns right around and uses his position to address worldly issues as if man can fix what man messed up. An old Indian saying goes " White man speak with fork tongue"

Offline Ladonia

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #31 on: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 06:13:34 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!

Is there not even one who will understand and give an Amen. The church is in trouble today and concerned for things that Christ was not about.   We are no longer looking for His return but want to fix the world that can never be fixed by sinful man.  Not one will say its true?

Where have you been? Nice to see that you are still on fire for  Jesus's  Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church! ::clappingoverhead:: (Some things never change)

Hi Ladonia. Still here I see and yes you are so right. Some things never change.  When was the Last time you prayed for Jesus return, or are you still thinking the pope is going to fix things.  Some things never change.  ::frown::

I am constantly praying for Jesus to help me in this life AND his return to set things straight down here.  As for the Pope, he can only do the same, pray for God's help in every facet of our earthly lives. But even though I do not agree with his viewpoint of the "climate change" hoax, he does have the same right as every other person alive has, to speak his mind on the issue. When he teaches that Jesus died for us I believe him, but when he teaches about "climate change", I simply do not.

Well then if you pray for Jesus to come then I am with you. You say you are with the pope when he teaches Jesus died for us he has done no more than any true disciple of Christ would do. If I say Jesus died for us would not then believe me to. The pope is trying to play God. Can you see that?  He is just a man who sits in a seat of power and his position is in the world. How is it you respect him for preaching Jesus and turns right around and uses his position to address worldly issues as if man can fix what man messed up. An old Indian saying goes " White man speak with fork tongue"

As long as your opinions are in line with what the Catholic Church teaches, of course I could believe you. As for your next statement I do not agree that the Pope is trying to play God. What the Pope is doing is tying the stewardship of the world that God has given to man into the spiritual biblical narrative. From what I understand this isn't the first time people of faith have done this, But in doing so and by the way he is doing it, I believe he has been taken in by the climate change fanatic left and is believing their nonsense by stating it all as confirmed fact. In the end though, he simply has the freedom to speak, as I have the freedom to disagree with him, especially on something that I feel is totally made up. I respect your freedom to speak too - on any topic!
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 06:27:10 by Ladonia »

Offline Catholica

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #32 on: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 06:32:34 »
But I agree that it was foolish of the pope to come out with this.  I would hope that he realizes that following his advice would condemn about a third of the world population to remaining abysmally poor with little hope of improvement.  Their only hope in that regard is cheap energy that is consistently available.  The only two sources that fit that are fossil and nuclear.  Wind and solar simply don't cut it.  And so far biofuels have only exacerbated the CO2 problem while raising the cost of available energy.


I guess I'm not sure of which advice you are speaking.  I have read the document in fits and starts.  He doesn't every bring up wind power and solar power is mentioned, but he tempers it referring to (if I remember correctly) needs to advance the technology to make the transition affordable.  There is mention to nuclear but I'm not sure it's with regard to power, though I agree that nuclear power is the way to go.  Fossil fuels are bad for the environment, but each to it's own degree. 

Here is an excerpt of something of interest:

52.The foreign debt of poor countries has become a way of controlling them, yet this is not the case where ecological debt is concerned. In different ways, developing countries, where the most important reserves of the biosphere are found, continue to fuel the development of richer countries at the cost of their own present and future. The land of the southern poor is rich and mostly unpolluted, yet access to ownership of goods and resources for meeting vital needs is inhibited by a system of commercial relations and ownership which is structurally perverse. The developed countries ought to help pay this debt by significantly limiting their consumption of non-renewable energy and by assisting poorer countries to support policies and programmes of sustainable development. The poorest areas and countries are less capable of adopting new models for reducing environmental impact because they lack the wherewithal to develop the necessary processes and to cover their costs. We must continue to be aware that, regarding climate change, there are differentiated responsibilities. As the United States bishops have said, greater attention must be given to “the needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable, in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests”.31 We need to strengthen the conviction that we are one single human family. There are no frontiers or barriers, political or social, behind which we can hide, still less is there room for the globalization of indifference.

31 United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Global Climate Change: A Plea for Dialogue, Prudence and the Common Good (15 June 2001).


The U.S. has perhaps some of the best environmental conditions of any country with any significant population in the whole of the planet .  That comes directly from the availability of cheap, consistent supply of energy.  It takes energy, and relatively lots of it,to clean the air, clean the water and remove the waste. It will take lots of energy to raise the standard of living of the peoples across the planet.  And that will happen only if there is lots of cheap energy available.  The needs of the poor, the weak and the vulnerable will be met much more quickly with cheap fossil fuel. It would help if more nuclear energy was being made available.  And it wouldn't have to be nuclear energy derived from Uranium either.  It could be from the Thorium cycle, which does not have some of the nasty waste problems of the Uranium cycle.

The simple truth is that if the U.S. completely stopped the production of all CO2, the change in CO2 levels around the planet would not be enough to change the temperature even a fraction of a degree over the next 20 years or so.  Moreover, CO2 is simply not the hugely influential greenhouse gas it is made out to be.  Plain old water vapor, humidity in the air, is an order of magnitude more effective greenhouse gas than CO2.  Water vapor makes up over 95% of all greenhouse gas.  All the rest of the greenhouse gases together account for the other less than 5%.


I have heard about water vapor being the major contributor as well. I have been personally skeptical of climate change.

What do you make of this article?

http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html

They claim that because water vapor is condensible it is more warmed by the greenhouse effect and less a contributor. They also claim that having more water vapor in the air could create a cooling effect. Anyway read the article, and comment if you would.

Offline winsome

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #33 on: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 06:39:07 »
The Pope comments

8. Patriarch Bartholomew has spoken in particular of the need for each of us to repent of the ways we have harmed the planet, for “inasmuch as we all generate small ecological damage”, we are called to acknowledge “our contribution, smaller or greater, to the disfigurement and destruction of creation”. He has repeatedly stated this firmly and persuasively, challenging us to acknowledge our sins against creation: “For human beings… to destroy the biological diversity of God’s creation; for human beings to degrade the integrity of the earth by causing changes in its climate, by stripping the earth of its natural forests or destroying its wetlands; for human beings to contaminate the earth’s waters, its land, its air, and its life – these are sins”.  For “to commit a crime against the natural world is a sin against ourselves and a sin against God”

Do we find these catholic bashers launching tirades against the Orthodox and Patriach Bartolomew in particular?
Of course not. They just want to snipe at the Catholic Church. Anything will do as a pretext.

Offline mclees8

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Re: popes encyclical
« Reply #34 on: Sat Jun 20, 2015 - 07:11:42 »

But I am curious about what you said there.  What does sin or sinning have to do with global warming or climate change?

Nothing!. mclees just likes to bash the Pope. The excuse is irrelevant. Just ignore him.

I will answer not for your sake but for others.   Man has always been centered in self. This was the fall of man. The world and man needed a savior to restore us to right relationship with God the Father. Jesus was that savior for all who would believe. If the world believed and loved Him they would obey Him and the world would not be under sin. As Long as men deny Christ sin remains and drives every evil thing. The big big business that ignores global warming and greed that dives all ambition says  yes Sin has everything to do with it. God has set all things in motion and subject to laws of nature. This law is ,we reap what we sow. God will not change that law no matter how much man try's to fix it. Are we bad stewards of Gods creation. Absolutely. is that from the nature of sin in a world that denies Christ so they can be saved.

Why is it hat the RCC that claims to be the church Jesus founded yet ignores what scripture says. Love no the world neither the things of it. Why did Jesus say I pray not for the world. Do we even wonder? Did Christ found a church that was to run the world and tell it to repent of global warming ? Why is Global warming. Have i not already stated it.  Why is their every corrupt thing and wickedness? have I not stated. You say these things are not about Sin How say you that.

4W you said we were to be good stewards. Who is to be a good steward. Is the world without faith In Christ to be a good stewards. Are they going to heaven. Who shall be judged ? Is it not those with out faith that live by their own understanding. Will the world come to Christ to pray for his coming as he promised all who choose to believe. Are not those who believe called to be good stewards? Those of us who are of faith are to be good stewards of Christ in every good work. How so is it with the world who love's Babylon more than God. Will not God set forth a new heaven and a new earth that will be righteous loving Christ.  Why do we ignore true faith that we read in scripture to love it and believe it. Therefore it shall be our indictment.

You spoke about the poor not just getting a hand out. Oh how I hear that as also our Lord. Jesus said " what profits a man if he should gain the whole world and still lose his soul"

What are we as believers about. What was the command. If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every man. There was no mandate to love our life in this world. As Jesus also said it any man loves his life in this world he shall lose but if any man will lose his life for my sake he shall gain it.   Are you understanding?  Outside of Jesus there is nothing!. No life! nothing!



Amen !

Thank you Doorknocker.  I needed that.  How ever if even not one amen I still doubted nothing of what I wrote being true.  God bless

 

     
anything