Question for any Catholics out there

[broach972]

"First, Catholics are forbidden to take communion in a Protestant church."

That is not true and a great basic example of your ignorance of the Protestant Churches.  The invitation in the Protestant churches or the ones I have attended all over the US would go something like this... "If you consider yourself part of the body of Christ, you have received Jesus Christ as LORD through the repentance of sins, we invite you to take communion with us"....   I've seen it, I've seen visiting Catholics participate, and I'm not ashamed to say so.

Actually, this is true.  The Catholic Church prohibits Catholics from taking communion in a Protestant church.  Period.  I love it when non-Catholics tell me, a Catholic, what the Church teaches.

[sopranette]

Catholics may be forbidden by the Catholic church from participating, but are not forbidden by any Baptist church I've been to.

love,

Sopranette

[CDHealy]

The Orthodox have a similar discipline regarding the reception of Holy Communion: we are forbidden from partaking of other churches' communion observations (memorial Lord's Suppers).  And even if we plan on receiving Holy Communion in another Orthodox parish, we are supposed to contact the priest there beforehand since he won't know our status when we go forward to receive, though this is often honored more in the breach than in the observance, .

The discipline for Orthodox of closed communion does, as for Roman Catholics, have to do with the fact that what we believe about the Eucharist is not shared by most Protestant parishes.  Only Roman Catholics, some Anglicans, and here and there some Lutherans share substantively similar (though there are some differences) understandings of the Eucharist with Orthodox.

Orthodox cannot receive in this other churches because we are not in communion with them, and the Holy Eucharist is not an indivdiual matter--as kensington demonstrates by her views: it's all about her and screw the rest of the churches and what they believe--but is a family affair.  One cannot share communion with those with whom one is not in communion.

But for the Orthodox (presumably also Roman Catholics, but I don't know), Holy Communion is not just simply received, but one prepares to receive it.  That preparation includes fasting and confession of one's sins.  Just as Jesus told us to confess our sins and be reconciled before offering our gift on the altar, so Orthodox Christians fast and confess in repentance for their sins, and then come to receive Holy Communion.  The specifics of the discplines of confession will differ slightly from parish to parish, diocese to diocese, and even one's priest will apply different healing measures to different parishioners within the same congregation; though the general disciplines are the same.  We fast from all food and drink from the night before receiving Holy Communion until after we take Holy Communion.  And we confess our sins, usually at Vespers the night before, though at other times as well.

I know Protestants who have an aversion to the epistle of James and Philippians 2:12-13 will see these disciplines are horrid little rules barring Christians from their "right" to the Lord's Supper.  But this is a problem for Protestants, not for Orthodox.  We know we're sick and need medicine.  And though medicine is not always pleasant, we know it's purpose is not to bar us from the medicine of immortality, but, rather, to make us better able to receive it.

[nhim]

Healy, you state,

"We know we're sick and need medicine.  And though medicine is not always pleasant, we know it's purpose is not to bar us from the medicine of immortality, but, rather, to make us better able to receive it."

Do you consider the Eucharist "medicine"? Could you explain that a little more?

Also, I'm hearing you say you do not believe in being in communion with the church "universal" (we are all brothers who trust in Christ for salvation,no matter what denomination), since you do not commune with other churches? Is this correct? What if you were on a long vacation? You would not meet with another church and take the Eucharist?

[broach972]

But for the Orthodox (presumably also Roman Catholics, but I don't know), Holy Communion is not just simply received, but one prepares to receive it.  That preparation includes fasting and confession of one's sins.  Just as Jesus told us to confess our sins and be reconciled before offering our gift on the altar, so Orthodox Christians fast and confess in repentance for their sins, and then come to receive Holy Communion.  The specifics of the disciplines of confession will differ slightly from parish to parish, diocese to diocese, and even one's priest will apply different healing measures to different parishioners within the same congregation; though the general disciplines are the same.  We fast from all food and drink from the night before receiving Holy Communion until after we take Holy Communion.  And we confess our sins, usually at Vespers the night before, though at other times as well.

This would be correct.  Fasting and confession are necessary before receiving communion.

[CDHealy]

Do you consider the Eucharist "medicine"? Could you explain that a little more?

St. Ignatios of Antioch, writing in AD 107, says of the Eucharist: "breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying" (Ephesians 20.2).

Because Christ is divine, and because the communication of his divinity pertains to his body, and because the Eucharist is, by grace, made to be his body and his blood, then the Eucharist likewise communicates to us immortality, the divine life.

As Romans 5 and the book of Hebrews point out, our problem is not merely a moral one (the personal guilt of personal sins), but it is an ontological one as well: we are infected body and soul with death.  But consumption of the divine life (in the Eucharist) is medicine which is an antidote to the mortality infecting us, and consuming it, immortality, the divine life, transforms our mortal self into divine life.

St. Paul notes this in 1 Corinthians 10:16-17: we literally participate in Christ's body and blood by consuming the bread and the wine--which is why, by the way, we cannot consume the ritual sacrifices of the pagans because they communicate death.  And this is why, when we take this medicine in the wrong way (1 Corinthians 11) we get sick and die.

Also, I'm hearing you say you do not believe in being in communion with the church "universal" (we are all brothers who trust in Christ for salvation,no matter what denomination), since you do not commune with other churches? Is this correct? What if you were on a long vacation? You would not meet with another church and take the Eucharist?

Christ's body is not divided, and yet in Christendom schisms abound and grow each week.  So, no, the premise that all Christians are somehow part of Christ's body while at the same time also divided from one another is a self-refuting contradiction.  Not all Christians are part of Christ's body because Christ's body cannot be divided.

But, the Spirit blows where he will, and we are not to judge lest we be judged, so we do not deny the claims of individuals to be Christians, out of charity and a reluctance to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.  But we do say that there is only one Body of Christ, we can know what that Body is, and we can know who is visibly within it and who is not.  Those Christians who are not visibly part of Christ's one body may yet be Christians, but their life is a difficult one, cut off as they are from Christ's visible Body.

But not communing in another Christians group is not a statement of whether or not the persons in that group are Christians, it's a statement that their group is not the Body of Christ.

As to what I would personally do if I didn't have access to an Orthodox parish?  By default I would observe Sunday prayers with my family amongst ourselves.  In consultation with my priest, I might also attend a relative's/friend's worship service, but I would not commune (if offered).  And there might be prayers that I could not pray with the assembly, or songs I could not sing.  But I rarely go to places where there aren't any Orthodox parishes, so I'm not often faced with this problem.

[kensington]

"But may I also draw your memory to the history of The Holy Temple in Jerusalem. Can you remember reading the stories of those invading armies who desecrated the temple. Some even taking Prostitutes onto the alter. Not sure how you felt, but when I read those stories, I felt a mixture of rage and sadness over what those men were doing to what was so obviously something truly Holy and Special to the Jews.

To true Catholics, the Eucharist is truly Holy and Special. I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm simply asking you in Christian love to acknowledge it is our belief.

Now then, you may attend our Mass, and take the Eucharist in whatever Protestant unbelieving manner you like."

IS THIS A JOKE?  Are you really likening my believing that the BLOOD of Christ shed for me at Calvary making me worthy to take communion in any church to "prostitutes" in the Tabernacle?  Did you really just do that while calling me brother?  The term brother you use to dismiss me, would entail my being a believer, a member of the body of Christ, and worthy to take communion. 

The Eucharist is special?  Or the partaking in communion in Jesus is special, if it were not special to me, this would be a non issue. This is the mindset that is so insulting... that you claim it is more special for you than it is for the rest of the Body of Christ...  Hypocrisy my friend.

Taking it in "whatever unbelieving manner" that I like?  Did you really say that?  Jesus died beaten and naked upon the cross for me.  I am a blood bought, born again, Spirit filled, child of the LIVING GOD...  now in what way does that make me the unbeliever in this? 

And ... I am not your brother.  I am a girl child of the Living God, who is insulted by your "above the protestants catholic attitude". 

 

[kensington]

But for the Orthodox (presumably also Roman Catholics, but I don't know), Holy Communion is not just simply received, but one prepares to receive it.  That preparation includes fasting and confession of one's sins.  Just as Jesus told us to confess our sins and be reconciled before offering our gift on the altar, so Orthodox Christians fast and confess in repentance for their sins, and then come to receive Holy Communion.  The specifics of the disciplines of confession will differ slightly from parish to parish, diocese to diocese, and even one's priest will apply different healing measures to different parishioners within the same congregation; though the general disciplines are the same.  We fast from all food and drink from the night before receiving Holy Communion until after we take Holy Communion.  And we confess our sins, usually at Vespers the night before, though at other times as well.

This would be correct.  Fasting and confession are necessary before receiving communion.

This is not true... my catholic family takes communion every Sunday at mass... they do not attend confession and they do not fast.  They go to mass.. and they all take communion any time it's offered.  Communion is served at every mass... and no one asks anyone if they have confessed or fasted.  I guess what this means is that they must NEVER sin... cause I know they take it.  Also... I know they do not attend confession every week too. 

I think that perhaps the two of you sit and research the rules of the church to argue here and to press on others... but most in fact I bet 99% of Catholics around the world to NOT confess and fast before mass each week. 

[kensington]

"First, Catholics are forbidden to take communion in a Protestant church."

That is not true and a great basic example of your ignorance of the Protestant Churches.  The invitation in the Protestant churches or the ones I have attended all over the US would go something like this... "If you consider yourself part of the body of Christ, you have received Jesus Christ as LORD through the repentance of sins, we invite you to take communion with us"....   I've seen it, I've seen visiting Catholics participate, and I'm not ashamed to say so.

Actually, this is true.  The Catholic Church prohibits Catholics from taking communion in a Protestant church.  Period.  I love it when non-Catholics tell me, a Catholic, what the Church teaches.

Well, you may have a handle on what is being taught, but you sure do not have a handle on what is being done.   Because, I have seen Catholics take communion in other church's, and I have seen them take it without fasting or going to confession...  just another bit of the hypocrisy that is the Catholic religion.  All this very religiousness that they portray for others, and flat out doing as they please in their own lives, using the "catholic" banner to justify them in the sin. 

I am not worried that I may offend a Catholic, I would be more worried if I offended Christ... He is the ONLY one who died for me.  And I know that He says I am in the body and I can partake in communion.  It doesn't matter to me who is serving it.  They are not the ones it represents or who did the dying.  Like I said... I'm tired of your "exclusion" religion.  It's not what Christ taught. 

[broach972]

Kensington, so in other words, you are saying that there are bad Catholics out there?  Wow!!! I am shocked!!! Stop the presses!!  Are you are telling me that there are some Catholics out there who do not follow the teachings of the Church?  I just don't know what to think.  I cannot believe that there are actually hypocrites in the Church.  Wow, thank you Kensington for opening my eyes.  I just didn't know this.

What was I thinking?  Before I became Catholic, I never knew that such Christians existed.  Even when I attended a Baptist church or even a Presbyterian church, I never knew that the people I attended Church were perfect Christians, who followed every tenet and guideline of their respective denomination.  Wow, I wasn't aware that Protestants were the only group that didn't have these type of people in their denominations.  Wow, thank you Kensington for pointing out the fact that the Catholic Church is the only church that contains this type of hypocrisy.

 

[Corbley]

This is just nuts...  Who cares if Catholic's care of you take communion.  If you want to take it take it.  If they get offended, so be it.  It's not up to them.. Christ said...  as often as you take it, take it for me.  So if you take it or not, when, where or served by whom is between you and God... 

They are hypocrites to not offer it to you.  They say you can't take it unworthily...  UGH... who are they to say you are not worthy to take communion because you are not part of one religion or another? God did not say that, He said it is for all believers.  Are you a believer?  Have you accepted Christ as LORD?  Then you can partake in communion.  IF you trust GOD, and Jesus is the savior who died on the cross for your sins, they do not have grounds to deny you.  It's a joke.  They hold their religion so dear, to the the exclusion of true believers?  When I see people in the mass who are living in sin, drunks, liars, thieves all "WORTHY" to take communion because they wear the name Catholic?  How that must grieve the Holy Spirit of truth.

It is a wafer and wine...  God sees your heart.  If the person next to you thinks it's real blood or not... is not relevant.  I've seen Catholics take communion in protestant churches...  so if they can, we can.   It's just that simple. No one will arrest you.  And God does not forbid it...  they did that all on their own.  Jesus says... take it.  The hypocrisy in this one issue is just ridiculous.

AMEN....The Catholics Priests and the Vatican.....Are equal to the Scribes and Pharasies that crusified Christ....The try and tell us how to live by the law....While in the back, they commit unspeakable sins.   Then step on to the Pulpit and decide who is worthy and who is not worthy to accept the blood of Christ.

[Corbley]

"First, Catholics are forbidden to take communion in a Protestant church."

That is not true and a great basic example of your ignorance of the Protestant Churches.  The invitation in the Protestant churches or the ones I have attended all over the US would go something like this... "If you consider yourself part of the body of Christ, you have received Jesus Christ as LORD through the repentance of sins, we invite you to take communion with us"....   I've seen it, I've seen visiting Catholics participate, and I'm not ashamed to say so.

Actually, this is true.  The Catholic Church prohibits Catholics from taking communion in a Protestant church.  Period.  I love it when non-Catholics tell me, a Catholic, what the Church teaches.

So....Who appointed the Catholics in charge of where I can or can not take communion?

[CDHealy]

So....Who appointed the Catholics in charge of where I can or can not take communion?

Boy, ya'll's ability to misread plain print is amazing.

The Catholic Church does not dictate to you where you can take communion, and only prohibits you from taking communion in one place: a Catholic parish--which, given your bigoted hatred of all thing Catholic, should not bother you in the slightest.

[CDHealy]

AMEN....The Catholics Priests and the Vatican.....Are equal to the Scribes and Pharasies that crusified Christ....

Wow.  Your ignorance is apparently unlimited.  See the "Catholics [sic] Priests and the Vatican" sort of kind of believe that Jesus was crucified for our salvation.  You appear to be trying to smear them with the epithet "Christ killers."  The anti-semitism latent in your taunt is evident.

The try and tell us how to live

Nope.  They're only telling Catholics how to live.  You're not Catholic.  You don't have to listen.

by the law....

Uh, nope again.  They teach salvation by grace through faith, not by adherence to the Law.

While in the back, they commit unspeakable sins.  

As does every Protestant denomination.  Oh, I forgot.  Protestants never sin and have never ever even once sexually abused anyone and then had the leadership cover it up.  My bad.

Then step on to the Pulpit and decide who is worthy and who is not worthy to accept the blood of Christ.

Well, that's what love does.  I mean if the Corinthian Christians died because they took Holy Communion unworthily, wouldn't it be appropriate for the priest to sort of mention that to his flock?

[zoonance]

So....Who appointed the Catholics in charge of where I can or can not take communion?

Boy, ya'll's ability to misread plain print is amazing.

The Catholic Church does not dictate to you where you can take communion, and only prohibits you from taking communion in one place: a Catholic parish--which, given your bigoted hatred of all thing Catholic, should not bother you in the slightest.

I would think that trying to argue that "we" have a right to take communion in a Catholic parish as the primary reasoning for doing so would qualify as "partaking in an unworthy manner".