Lighthammer, you wrote: "You do realize that every ECF for 400 years were persecuted and killed in the same manner as the Apostles. Some of them even knew the Apostles, like my personal favorite St. Ignatius of Antioch. Then there's some ECF's who are even mentioned in Sacred Scripture like the second Pope, St. Linus. "
And the RCC, once it became a seat of power, persecuted hundreds of thousands who refused to bow their knees to the Pope. The RCC sought to capture and kill one of our greatest reformers, Martin Luther. This is history, not hear-say.
You do also realize that your Reformation Fathers disagreed on major tenets of Christian faith? The only thing they had in common was their hatred for my Church which they didn't really condemn until after we kicked them out.
More history and not here-say.
Nevertheless the history you cite and the history we cite has one distinct difference...
Most denominations do not claim to be THE ONE SINGLE human institution started by Christ as if there is literally one Visible Church
As you have been informed on numerous occasions to no avail
The One True Church is The Invisible Church
The Body of Believers, whom The Lord Himself considers His Body, whom He alone only knows
As Buff alluded to
That would include believers from every sect and denomination
And also includes those who belong to no denomination as Paul pointed out in
For indeed some will die not having the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus and they will only be judged on the basis of their hearts
Bottom line, RCC, One Church bit is getting a little stale more importantly its a blatant untruth
I know of no Christian community today that claims that the One True Church is an exclusively visible community. That's certainly not what my Church teaches now or ever.
So you're really loosing me here.
LH you lose many of us when you start claiming the Catholic Church is the True Church and the rest of us are part of a rebellion against the succession of leaders God set in place.
That is the genesis of your retort against Luther early in the thread is it not?
Now if I'm making that up, I'll gladly stand corrected but I am pretty sure you have stated one version of what I just stated at various points of your tenure in this forum....have you not?
Please correct me if I am wrong
Yea no idea what you're talking about.
My opposition towards Martin Luther is based on the simple fact that he's a heretic. He had a completely false definition of "Faith" and altered the Book of St. James to support such and that was only after he didn't have the means to effectively remove the Book of St. James from Sacred Scripture altogether.
He tried to stunt like he was Sola Scriptura but created his own canon of "disputed" books of the Bible.
People try to act like he was a champion against corruption when he literally had a slaughter fest against the Anabaptist and led state-ran campaigns against Jews.
I have no issues with reforming the Church. One of my favorite Christians is St. Francis of Assisi. He was believed to be given a holy vocation by God Himself to reform the Catholic Church. When he presented his ministry the Pope fell in line behind it. Now there are millions of Franciscan priests staying away from worldly issues who are basically acting as our Internal Affairs.
So reformation is not something I fear or resist. I'm just not some slave to influence. Martin Luther was no more someone to be idolized that the corrupt clergy of my past.
I don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the One True Church. Of course there's only one Church. It has its ranks on Earth and in Heaven. Water baptism (whatever you may believe about) is how people were initiated into that Body of Christ. The divisions we gather under are matters of orthodoxy not necessarily membership in the Body of Christ.
I believe wholeheartedly that you are a member of the Church/ Body of Christ and any other Protestant who is baptized properly and faithful to Christ as He directs. I do wish you receive the sacraments because I believe Christ gave them to us as a way for us to take Him in for nourishment more fully. That doesn't mean you're not apart of the Church only that you're missing out on something really helpful to our Christian lives.
Like I said I have no idea what you think
we believe but I imagine its totally different from what we really