Setting the Record Striaght

[Amo]

                        CHAP.  3 THE PRIESTHOOD

1 Pet 2:5-9 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

According to the Apostle Peter, those who have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, are a royal, and a holy priesthood. Each member of the body of Christ, is an ambassador for Christ. Using whatever gifts of the Spirit that God gives them to bring people to a knowledge of God by introducing them to His Son, who is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15). Unlike the priests of the old covenant who stood as a type of Christ, mediating if you will, between humanity and God, new covenant believers introduce the world to the one and only true mediator between man and God. The literal priesthood of the old covenant has been abolished by Christ in favor of the spiritual priesthood of the new covenant.

The old covenant believer was dependent upon a literal human being and place to receive forgiveness of sins. The new covenant believer however, after being introduced to the Lord Jesus Christ, our high priest who ever liveth to intercede for us, can receive forgiveness for sins at any time, and in any place ( Jn 4: 19-24). The new covenant believer has no need for a human go between, but has been given direct access to the throne of God in and through the ministration of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Each believer may now come boldly before the throne of God with their prayers, and confessions, entreating the mercies of our loving God. This is among the most precious promises of the new testament scriptures.

Heb 4:15-16  15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 7:25-27  25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to earth, and became one of us, so that we could each have a close and personal relationship with him and his Father in heaven. The Devil has ever sought to separate humanity from God. With the cooperation of our first parents he succeeded in the garden. Ever since, God has been seeking to bring us back, and Satan has been seeking to keep us apart. However, since the Son of God became one of us, there is nothing that can keep us from the love of God, save our own choice to be separate.

Rom 8:38-39  38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the habit of the church of Rome, putting the literal, in the place of the spiritual, she has destroyed the intimacy which God intended between Himself and his followers. The church of Rome has established a literal priesthood upon which her people are dependent for the forgiveness of their sins. Her adherents are required to confess their sins to their priest that he might grant them God's forgiveness. Again, by literalizing a spiritual truth, the church of Rome separates it's adherents from God, and establishes itself in a position of authority over all who accept her dogmas. What can be more intimate than asking for, and receiving forgiveness from a loved one? Even this is denied those who accept the intercession of Rome.

Heb 10:4-22 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Why would anyone who has direct access to the throne of God, and an invitation from God himself to come their when ever they need to, seek intercession from another sinful, and fallible human being. Jesus Christ is our high priest. By his blood we may all enter in through the veil, into the holiest, where Christ ever liveth to make intercession for us. This was accomplished through his flesh, verse 20. His flesh was our flesh, he became one of us, so that we could enter into the holiest and have direct access to the throne of God. We no longer need anyone between us and God. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. He presented his body a living sacrifice unto God, that we might be able to follow in his footsteps, seeing that his body, or flesh, was our body, or flesh.

The primary role of the priesthood during the old covenant was to officiate the sacrifice. This role has been taken from humanity, and established by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who was our sacrifice, and is our high priest. The sacrifice of the new covenant believer is clearly pointed out by the Apostle Paul.

Rom 12:1-2  1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Christ has prepared the way, so that we may give our own selves as living and holy sacrifices unto God. This is our spiritual service of worship in the new covenant. These things Christ has accomplished by becoming one of us. Now, what person can officiate between the individual and God, when the individual has been granted by the grace of God, the power to present themselves directly to God as a living and holy sacrifice. This is what has been granted to all through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Christ has established a close and personal relationship with each and every individual which cares to accept this relationship. There is no need for the priesthood of the church of Rome. In fact, any man that presumes to put himself between anyone else, and God, has put themselves in the place of God.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

If by faith, I have died with Christ, I am freed from  my sin. I personally have been empowered to do this thing by faith, and so has anyone else who cares to accept it. How says the church of Rome that I need a priest, that is, another sinful human being to officiate between me and God? Why would the church of Rome nullify the grace of God? Why does she wish to take this gift away from humanity, which was given at such infinite cost? The answer is clear, she seeks power over the world that has not been granted her from God. She seeks to be in the place of God. This is the original sin of Satan himself (Isa. 14: 12-15). These things will be discussed in greater detail, in following chapters.

The setting up of a literal priesthood by the church of Rome, separates those who believe her from their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the true high priest of the new covenant. As always, it establishes her in a position of authority between man and God over all that listen to her. This is the true nature of the church of Rome. Her dogmas serve the purpose of separating humanity from their God, and only hope of salvation. All this she does, while claiming to be the one and only original church of Christ on earth.

[banished]

The setting up of a literal priesthood by the church of Rome, separates those who believe her from their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the true high priest of the new covenant. As always, it establishes her in a position of authority between man and God over all that listen to her. This is the true nature of the church of Rome. Her dogmas serve the purpose of separating humanity from their God, and only hope of salvation. All this she does, while claiming to be the one and only original church of Christ on earth.

Amo,

I am a Catholic because I sincerely believe, by virtue of much cumulative evidence, that Catholicism is true, and that the Catholic Church is the visible Church divinely-established by our Lord Jesus, against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail (Mt 16:18), thereby possessing an authority to which I feel bound in Christian duty to submit.  Remember, there is an old European saying, "He who eateth of the Pope dieth like a Beast".

[Amo]

Amo,

I am a Catholic because I sincerely believe, by virtue of much cumulative evidence, that Catholicism is true, and that the Catholic Church is the visible Church divinely-established by our Lord Jesus, against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail (Mt 16:18), thereby possessing an authority to which I feel bound in Christian duty to submit.  Remember, there is an old European saying, "He who eateth of the Pope dieth like a Beast".

banished,

I am not a Catholic, by virtue of much cumulative evidence that the Church of Rome has placed itself above the word of God, and it's teachings contradict the same.  Also because of the many atrocities it has committed in the name of God in the past.  Your Church and especially the Popes should know about dying like a beast, since they roasted many a person in the flames like one.  This is a good saying revealing the truth about Rome.  He who eateth the flesh, and drinketh the blood of Jesus Christ, hath eternal life, but he that eateth of the Pope shall die like a beast.  Thanks for that tidbit, I'll not forget it.

[banished]

Amo,

Both Psalm 111:10 and Proverbs 9:10 say that the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.  You have no business making presumed "infallible" statements about the nature of Christianity.  That includes all major religions like Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism.  Be smart, let it go! He who eateth the flesh, and drinketh the blood of Jesus Christ, hath eternal life, but he that eateth of the Pope shall die like a beast.

[OldDad]

Well, you asked me, "Why do you have such a hard time to understand who the church is?", and I believe along with the Roman Catholic Church that at ordination, the soul of the priest is so configured to Christ, that he becomes another Christ, alter Christus, & gives glory to God in imitation of Christ.

So it was alter Christus who molested all those boys?  Interesting.

[winsome]

Well, you asked me, "Why do you have such a hard time to understand who the church is?", and I believe along with the Roman Catholic Church that at ordination, the soul of the priest is so configured to Christ, that he becomes another Christ, alter Christus, & gives glory to God in imitation of Christ.

So it was alter Christus who molested all those boys?  Interesting.

So you think Protestants are pure on this count do you.

Here is a small sample of what they get up to. I have at least a hundred more examples if you would like to see them.

WORCESTER, MA. A former pastor Andrew J. Bierkan, 54, at the First Congregational Church of Sutton who now heads a church in Ohio has been indicted here on charges of unnatural rape of a child and posing a child in a state of nudity. He is now pastor of St. Paul United Church of Christ in Cincinnati, according to Worcester District Attorney John J. Conte. (Worcester Telegram & Gazette, August 13, 2003)
Ex-Sutton pastor charged with rape of girl from church
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PORTLAND, OR. Church volunteer pleaded innocent to 26 counts of rape, sodomy and sex abuse. Derrick Mayberry was indicted by a grand jury on Tuesday and entered the plea on Wednesday. Mayberry, 23, was arrested May 15 on accusations of raping two teenage girls he met while volunteering at the New Beginnings Christian Center in northeast Portland. The victims were 13 and 15 years old. (KOIN TV, May 29, 2003)
Church Worker, Coach Enters Plea In Sex Abuse Case
Church volunteer, coach faces sex abuse charges
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Long Island, NY. James Taylor, also known as Bishop J. Andre Taylor among his Provision of Promise Pentecostal Church congregation, was charged with second-degree sodomy and second-degree sexual abuse. (Newsday, December 24, 2002)
2 Pastors Charged With Abuse
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SUMTER, S.C. - A former youth pastor here has been charged with forcing a 12-year-old girl to perform oral sex in a hospital bathroom, police say. Troy Glenn Clark, 34, of Lexington, N.C., has been charged with criminal sexual conduct with a minor. (The State, Dec. 12, 2002)
Youth pastor charged with criminal sexual conduct with a minor
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Teenager Terry Eads, a church youth pastor of Evergreen Alliance Church, was sentenced to prison for raping a 4-year-old boy; and another church pastor, Eads, 18, hung his head through the sentencing hearing before District Judge Stewart Stadler as his 6-year-old victim's parents testified about the damage Eads wreaked. Said the boy's father, Eads "raped my son with me in the house. He raped my son in our church" probably 40 times, the tearful father said. "He should go to prison for a minimum of 15 years." The abuse lasted for two years, from 2000-02 when Eads was 15-17 years old and the boy was 4-6. (Nov. 22, 2002, Daily Interlake)
pastor in court on sex crimes
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Garry Toavs, 58, pleaded guilty to molesting a girl, in separate court hearings Thursday. Toavs, pastor of Evergreen Alliance Church, was originally charged with sexual offenses with two girls, ages 12 and 5. In exchange for his guilty plea, one of the charges was dropped. (Nov. 22, 2002, Daily Interlake)
pastor in court on sex crimes
His church asks for prayers for Toavs in prison
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Incriminating statements by a Bible instructor charged this spring with molesting two boys raise the prospect that he had other victims, a Salinas police sergeant said Friday. Rev. Wesley Craig Parnell, 41, was arrested June 14 at his townhouse on the 1800 block of Cherokee Drive on suspicion of molesting an 8-year-old boy. Parnell was charged a month later with molesting a 15-year-old boy three years ago. The victim is now 18. (The Californian, October 26, 2002)
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Philadelphia, PA. In the late 80s, Harbaugh attended St. Paul's United Church of Christ in Fleetwood, Berks County. Harbaugh was 15 years old when she attracted the attention of the youth minister, Valerie Stoop, who was 27 at the time. Harbaugh says Stoops' alleged abuse began with holding hands, progressed to kissing and then fondling. (WPVI Philadelphia, Oct 4, 2002)
Accused Minister hired by another Church
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Sacramento, CA. A 48-year-old man was convicted Wednesday in Sacramento Superior Court of bigamy, spousal abuse and molesting a daughter of one of three women he was living with.The prosecution said that Gonzalez told people he was a bishop with the Mormon Church and was later excommunicated when the church learned of his multiple wives, but that was never substantiated. He later formed his own church, calling it Jesus Christ of the United World Order, Cochrane said. (Sacramento Bee, July 11, 2002)
Man guilty of bigamy, molestation, spouse abuse
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Baton Rouge, LA. A Baker minister accused of molesting four children is being sought after failing to surrender to East Baton Rouge sheriff's officials Thursday. Benny McFarland, 41, 9240 Pettit Road, Baker, may be "holed up," Sheriff's Col. Mike Barnett said. "He's very aware of the indictment," Barnett said. "We'd like to get him in custody." The indictment accuses McFarland of performing sex acts with four children from 1990 through 1998. The children ranged in age from 8 to 16. Prosecutor Kim Brooks said McFarland initially met the children while working as a minister at Hightime Evangelistic Center in Baker. He was arrested in 2000 after he was accused of improperly touching a boy in his church office between 1993 and 1999. (The Baton Rouge Advocate News, 06/14/02)
Minister sought on child-sex counts

[OldDad]

LOL - never said "protestant are pure" on this count... But I've never heard a "protestant" pastor claim to be "another Christ" either...

[OldDad]

Also, if "protestant" pastors are found to be pedophiles, they lose their jobs and go to jail.  Pedophle priests just get appointed to another parish.

[winsome]

LOL - never said "protestant are pure" on this count... But I've never heard a "protestant" pastor claim to be "another Christ" either...

The stick to that argument and don't throw in irrelevant side issues that might backfire.

[winsome]

Also, if "protestant" pastors are found to be pedophiles, they lose their jobs and go to jail.  Pedophle priests just get appointed to another parish.

If Catholic priests are convicted they go to jail.

[OldDad]

I can understand why you don't want it brought up - it was swept under the rug for years, let's just keep it that way...

[winsome]

I can understand why you don't want it brought up - it was swept under the rug for years, let's just keep it that way...

LOL -  you started it!

[banished]

LOL - never said "protestant are pure" on this count... But I've never heard a "protestant" pastor claim to be "another Christ" either...

Well, I could bring up the likes of David Korish and Jim Jones, but that would be hitting below the belt. I have to give the Protestants a clean bill of health on claiming to be a Christ.

[winsome]

Your Church and especially the Popes should know about dying like a beast, since they roasted many a person in the flames like one. 

John Calvin had a rival critic, Michael Servetus, burned alive in October 1553.

Protestants burned some 30,000 "witches" in Europe in the 15th/16th centuries.

Protestants committed even more horrific killing of dozens who were hung, drawn and quartered in England.

Protestant Oliver Cromwell killed thousands of Catholics in Ireland, and drove them from their land to starve.

[Charles Sloan]

Your Church and especially the Popes should know about dying like a beast, since they roasted many a person in the flames like one. 

John Calvin had a rival critic, Michael Servetus, burned alive in October 1553.

Protestants burned some 30,000 "witches" in Europe in the 15th/16th centuries.

Protestants committed even more horrific killing of dozens who were hung, drawn and quartered in England.

Protestant Oliver Cromwell killed thousands of Catholics in Ireland, and drove them from their land to starve.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/catholic-forum/roman-catholic-atrocities/