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Offline wincam

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Sin and Sinner?
« on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 06:01:15 »
in spite of what has been said and accepted by many, especially via the 'prosperity gospel' that God hates sin and not the sinner it is in fact the sinner and not the sin that is headed for hell - wincam

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Sin and Sinner?
« on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 06:01:15 »

Offline Alan

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #1 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 06:12:19 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #1 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 06:12:19 »

Offline wincam

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #2 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 06:17:50 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21


words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #3 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 06:19:51 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21


words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam


I quoted the "real" gospel with scripture, run your condemning mouth as you wish but the word of God is where I receive my guidance.  ::tippinghat::

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #3 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 06:19:51 »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #4 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 08:26:17 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21


words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam

the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit...hmmm...you judge so quickly the spirit of others, and if I am to be honest;YOURS is the one consistently lacking, Wincam.

You are smug, you are superior, you provoke and insult...not fruit of one "poor in spirit".

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #4 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 08:26:17 »



Offline MeMyself

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #5 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 08:41:14 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21


words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam

The prosperity gospel is not about God's amazing grace lavished upon mankind, but about monetary value and amounts of material "goodies" people want to get.

God's love is for the WORLD, lost, alone and dying in their sin.  He loved those who are rotting in that muck that He sent His Son so that we might be saved!  Not only *that*, but He continuously lavishes His grace on us; His spoiled, ill mannered, rude and self seeking, want to play the game of "Who will be the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven?" children, DAILY and even hourly.

PRAISE God for His amazing grace which He so extravagantly pours over sinners, holding none back!  Without it, all hope would be lost.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #6 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 09:23:24 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21
words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam
what is the real gospel?

Offline wincam

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #7 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 12:36:35 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21
words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam
what is the real gospel?


the real gospel is certainly not the 'prosperity gospel' but is encapsulated in the blessings and the woes in both Matthew and Luke and brought to our remembrance at Jn.20:31 as simply simply simply believe - see my previous posts - wincam


Offline skeeter

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #8 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 16:06:42 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21
words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam
what is the real gospel?
the real gospel is certainly not the 'prosperity gospel' but is encapsulated in the blessings and the woes in both Matthew and Luke and brought to our remembrance at Jn.20:31 as simply simply simply believe - see my previous posts - wincam
huh... the Apostles aren't teaching about the death, burial and resurrection in Matthew.  I think that doesn't happen until the last chapter of Matt.  Isn't that what Catholics believe? Isn't that why you all have that crucifix in your churches?  I don't think you'll find it until the end of Luke either.   Try 1 Cor 15

Offline Catholica

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #9 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 20:49:41 »
This is the real gospel.

I. The life of man - to know and love God

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #10 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 21:32:29 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21

I say a hearty Amen to those words.  ::clappingoverhead:: If He wasn't there offering forgiveness, I would truly be lost.

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #11 on: Thu Oct 01, 2015 - 22:22:24 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21


words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam

You seem to connect everything to the prosperity Gospel. What then is your definition of the prosperity gospel and fefine whom you believe is guilty of it and why.  ? 

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #12 on: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 00:20:34 »
This is the real gospel.

I. The life of man - to know and love God

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.

where did you get 'this' gospel?

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #13 on: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 04:04:01 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21


words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam

You seem to connect everything to the prosperity Gospel. What then is your definition of the prosperity gospel and fefine whom you believe is guilty of it and why.  ?

could that just be the problem = individual interpretations = if that be the case why not try the best interpretation = via google see [Hell's best kept secret] - wincam

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #14 on: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 05:21:39 »
Good point, thank the Lord for His grace and mercy, that we can come before Him daily in repentance and forgiveness for those sins. Certainly the Lord despises sin but loves His children, not desiring any to perish, it is Him and Him alone that provided the means to which we may stand before God to praise Him and ask Him for forgiveness, the sacrifices and intercessory priest were never enough and are no longer a requirement. Rom 5:6, Heb 2:17, 2 Cor 5:21


words, words and more words for the 'prosperity gospel' - it is the Law for the proud and arrogant and the real gospel is only for the poor in spirit - wincam

You seem to connect everything to the prosperity Gospel. What then is your definition of the prosperity gospel and fefine whom you believe is guilty of it and why.  ?

could that just be the problem = individual interpretations = if that be the case why not try the best interpretation = via google see [Hell's best kept secret] - wincam

If nobody is allowed to have an interpretation except one person, then his interpretation will always be the best.
However the best available interpretation does not mean it therefore is the best interpretation.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #15 on: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 07:58:17 »
This is the real gospel.

I. The life of man - to know and love God

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.

where did you get 'this' gospel?

From Jesus Christ via the Church that He established and commanded to "(baptize) and (teach)all that (Jesus had) commanded (them)".

What problem do you have with the Gospel which I have written to you above?
« Last Edit: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 08:02:55 by Catholica »

Offline wincam

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #16 on: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 17:30:29 »
This is the real gospel.

I. The life of man - to know and love God

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.

where did you get 'this' gospel?

From Jesus Christ via the Church that He established and commanded to "(baptize) and (teach)all that (Jesus had) commanded (them)".

What problem do you have with the Gospel which I have written to you above?

the real good news is in one line and in the very first paragraph viz "when the fullness of time had come God sent His son as Redeemer and Saviour" - we are reminded of this in Jn.20:31 - wincam

Offline skeeter

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #17 on: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 19:23:26 »
This is the real gospel.

I. The life of man - to know and love God

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.

where did you get 'this' gospel?

From Jesus Christ via the Church that He established and commanded to "(baptize) and (teach)all that (Jesus had) commanded (them)".

What problem do you have with the Gospel which I have written to you above?
the real good news is in one line and in the very first paragraph viz "when the fullness of time had come God sent His son as Redeemer and Saviour" - we are reminded of this in Jn.20:31 - wincam

I've looked up that verse in about 4 versions - none of them say 'when the fullness of time had come'.  Yet you have that included in quotes.  Why?

this is from the kjv -

john 20
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #18 on: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 21:18:14 »
Skeeter,

Galatians 4:4-7

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

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Re: Sin and Sinner?
« Reply #19 on: Fri Oct 02, 2015 - 22:51:04 »
Skeeter,

Galatians 4:4-7

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
thx.  I 'spect wincom's john 20 was close.  it was in the bible.