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Author Topic: The biggest reason I am catholic  (Read 6284 times)

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Offline AVZ

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #315 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 08:20:36 »
Typical crass remark. Of course it wasn't a popularity voice.

If the Pope had consulted no-one you would say he was typical dictator.

So what?
Hitler was a dictator, yet he had himself surrounded by advisers.
Or shall we now say that Hitler was not a typical dictator because he consulted with his team of experts how to handle the Jewish issue?

Sinking into the gutter now!

Why? I was making a point that consulting others doesn't excuse one from being a typical dictator.
Usually dictators surround themselves with equal minded advisers. That's how they became dictators and that's how they stay in power.

But something else then.
If the Pope is infallible then he doesn't need to consult anyone and definitely he doesn't need to consult other fallible people.
What is the Pope going to do with that information? Change his mind?

So if the Pope thinks that maybe Mary was conceived immaculate and lets argue that that is true, but everybody else thinks it is not, then what do you suggest the Pope does?
A) If he gives in to external pressure, he obviously fallibly caved in to an infallible concern on the matter of faith.
B) If he does not give in and still solemny declares the immaculate conception, he may be right, but he still behaves like a typical dictator.

Which one is better?

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #315 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 08:20:36 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #316 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 08:28:25 »
Typical crass remark. Of course it wasn't a popularity voice.

If the Pope had consulted no-one you would say he was typical dictator.

So what?
Hitler was a dictator, yet he had himself surrounded by advisers.
Or shall we now say that Hitler was not a typical dictator because he consulted with his team of experts how to handle the Jewish issue?

Sinking into the gutter now!

Why? I was making a point that consulting others doesn't excuse one from being a typical dictator.
Usually dictators surround themselves with equal minded advisers. That's how they became dictators and that's how they stay in power.

But something else then.
If the Pope is infallible then he doesn't need to consult anyone and definitely he doesn't need to consult other fallible people.
What is the Pope going to do with that information? Change his mind?

So if the Pope thinks that maybe Mary was conceived immaculate and lets argue that that is true, but everybody else thinks it is not, then what do you suggest the Pope does?
A) If he gives in to external pressure, he obviously fallibly caved in to an infallible concern on the matter of faith.
B) If he does not give in and still solemny declares the immaculate conception, he may be right, but he still behaves like a typical dictator.

Which one is better?

If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism.  There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.  And gay marriage isn't covered in the Bible, at least, it isn't directly condemned.

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #316 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 08:28:25 »

Offline AVZ

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #317 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 09:04:08 »
If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism.  There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.  And gay marriage isn't covered in the Bible, at least, it isn't directly condemned.

Why would you bind (force) anyone to believe what you say? Even if you enforce it on them, they still don't believe in their heart.
The RCC makes the false assumption that following pre-described doctrine equals believe. That is not the case.

The RCC also teaches that divorce is evil, yet so many Catholics divorce anyway.
So what good does "binding people" do if they don't practice it anyway?
How many Catholics do you think there are who use birth control even though the church "binds" them to not use them?

You talk about the Pope not being like a typical dictator.
Yet the RCC as a community of believers enforces people to believe exactly the way she describes and if they don't they are declared anathema.
How is that not dictatorial? How could you call such a thing "unity"?

Yes we could all come together under the umbrella of the Catholic Church and pretend we are one big happy family following the teaching of the Church.
Or all the Catholics could come together under the umbrella of the Protestant Church and pretend to do the same.
Would that make you feel better because you now have a (false) sense of unity?

Yes, God wants you to make up your own mind and not have your mind made up for you.
The Bible teaches that each and every one of us has to work out his own salvation.
"Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save."


My solution for the vast majority of the Catholics is for once pick up a Bible and start reading.
Then test what you are being told by your Church to what you read in the Bible...then make up your mind.
BTW: Protestants are of course not excluded from this exercise.
« Last Edit: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 09:10:20 by AVZ »

Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #318 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 09:50:52 »
If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism.  There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.  And gay marriage isn't covered in the Bible, at least, it isn't directly condemned.
Why would you bind (force) anyone to believe what you say? Even if you enforce it on them, they still don't believe in their heart.
The RCC makes the false assumption that following pre-described doctrine equals believe. That is not the case.

The RCC also teaches that divorce is evil, yet so many Catholics divorce anyway.
So what good does "binding people" do if they don't practice it anyway?
How many Catholics do you think there are who use birth control even though the church "binds" them to not use them?

You talk about the Pope not being like a typical dictator.
Yet the RCC as a community of believers enforces people to believe exactly the way she describes and if they don't they are declared anathema.
How is that not dictatorial? How could you call such a thing "unity"?

Yes we could all come together under the umbrella of the Catholic Church and pretend we are one big happy family following the teaching of the Church.
Or all the Catholics could come together under the umbrella of the Protestant Church and pretend to do the same.
Would that make you feel better because you now have a (false) sense of unity?

Yes, God wants you to make up your own mind and not have your mind made up for you.
The Bible teaches that each and every one of us has to work out his own salvation.
"Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save."


My solution for the vast majority of the Catholics is for once pick up a Bible and start reading.
Then test what you are being told by your Church to what you read in the Bible...then make up your mind.
BTW: Protestants are of course not excluded from this exercise.
and God knows our heart... He wants us to come to Him thru our own free will - not because someone on earth makes a rule that we have to. 
So many who say they are Catholic do not believe or live as they believe so many 'doctrines' of the RCC.
So many while professing to be Catholic, also support bc, abortion, sex outside of marriage, homosexuality and homosexual marriage.  You can find a bunch of them right in our congress, on many forums on the internet - and in families all around the world.

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #318 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 09:50:52 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #319 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 10:02:47 »
If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism.  There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.  And gay marriage isn't covered in the Bible, at least, it isn't directly condemned.

Why would you bind (force) anyone to believe what you say? Even if you enforce it on them, they still don't believe in their heart.
The RCC makes the false assumption that following pre-described doctrine equals believe. That is not the case.

All Christians are bound by God to believe the Truth, and if the Truth is known with certainty, then by God they are bound to believe it, and by it they will be judged.

The RCC also teaches that divorce is evil, yet so many Catholics divorce anyway
So what good does "binding people" do if they don't practice it anyway?
How many Catholics do you think there are who use birth control even though the church "binds" them to not use them?

What good it does is provide them a stronger reason to understand that they need to repent of their evil deeds and believe the Gospel.

Quote
You talk about the Pope not being like a typical dictator.
Yet the RCC as a community of believers enforces people to believe exactly the way she describes and if they don't they are declared anathema.
How is that not dictatorial? How could you call such a thing "unity"?

I see now that you are not even going to try to work out problems in Protestantism in this post.  Why not?  Are they impossible?

There is plenty of room for opinion in the Catholic Church.  The things the Church defines for believe are just the most important things, the truths of the faith that are delivered from the apostles.  There is plenty of room for discussion on many theological issues. 

A person separates himself from the Church if he denies the truths of the faith, not if a person perhaps is ignorant (and so doesn't know to believe.  That is what truth does, it divides, and that is why anathema is in accord with the nature of Jesus himself, and the Catholic Church's practice in that regard is actually just like Jesus himself.

Quote
Yes we could all come together under the umbrella of the Catholic Church and pretend we are one big happy family following the teaching of the Church.
Or all the Catholics could come together under the umbrella of the Protestant Church and pretend to do the same.
Would that make you feel better because you now have a (false) sense of unity?

There is no defined truth in the so-called Protestant Church.  It is a loose association of people with various conflicting ideas of what the truth is, derived by fallible men from scripture in various ways.  "Pretend to be united" is exactly what Protestants have to do.  Catholics actually have a path to get there, which is a defined set of doctrines with regard to faith and morals.  That some people dissent is just a sign that they divide themselves from the teachings of Christ, not that the Catholic Church is divided.

Believe me, we are fully aware that there are many Catholics who refuse to accept the teachings of the Church.  This is a grave matter which we try to address, and a danger to their salvation.

Quote
Yes, God wants you to make up your own mind and not have your mind made up for you.

Yes, he wants us to align our own hearts to the Truth that he revealed and preserves in the Catholic Church, and not make up our own version of it all.

Quote
The Bible teaches that each and every one of us has to work out his own salvation.
"Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save."

My solution for the vast majority of the Catholics is for once pick up a Bible and start reading.
Then test what you are being told by your Church to what you read in the Bible...then make up your mind.
BTW: Protestants are of course not excluded from this exercise.

I have read the Bible, studied the Bible, listened to the entire Bible through once and again another half time, and it only solidified my belief that everything that the Catholic Church teaches is true.

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #319 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 10:02:47 »



Offline kensington

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #320 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 14:50:07 »
Oh... I used to have the Bible on cassette tapes, and I loved them.  I listened to them every night before going to bed, I would let them play on after I fell asleep until they shut off on their own.  There is peace in the word.  I must have listened to those things 50 times, they wore out.  The Word of God is so exciting!!  Everyone should have the Bible to listen to!

Offline Catholica

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #321 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 14:54:12 »
Oh... I used to have the Bible on cassette tapes, and I loved them.  I listened to them every night before going to bed, I would let them play on after I fell asleep until they shut off on their own.  There is peace in the word.  I must have listened to those things 50 times, they wore out.  The Word of God is so exciting!!  Everyone should have the Bible to listen to!

I agree!  I used to listen to the Daily Audio Bible podcast, which is an excellent ministry for getting into the word.  It really made faith come alive in my life.  I learned to pray and got a great induction into the word of God.

Offline Alan

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #322 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 14:59:09 »
Oh... I used to have the Bible on cassette tapes, and I loved them.  I listened to them every night before going to bed, I would let them play on after I fell asleep until they shut off on their own.  There is peace in the word.  I must have listened to those things 50 times, they wore out.  The Word of God is so exciting!!  Everyone should have the Bible to listen to!



The Bible Experience is an excellent audio Bible, 89 hours. I listen to it at work  ::smile::

YouVersion Bible app on my phone also has audio.

Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #323 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 00:08:20 »
If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism. There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.
you don't 'see it'  because you define anyone who says they are Christian but aren't RC as 'protestant'.  Protestant is not 1 main denom.


And gay marriage isn't covered in the Bible, at least, it isn't directly condemned.
yes, it is - both of these are.


Why would you bind (force) anyone to believe what you say? Even if you enforce it on them, they still don't believe in their heart.
The RCC makes the false assumption that following pre-described doctrine equals believe. That is not the case.
All Christians are bound by God to believe the Truth, and if the Truth is known with certainty, then by God they are bound to believe it, and by it they will be judged.
Christians are bound to believe God's word.


The RCC also teaches that divorce is evil, yet so many Catholics divorce anyway
So what good does "binding people" do if they don't practice it anyway?
How many Catholics do you think there are who use birth control even though the church "binds" them to not use them?
What good it does is provide them a stronger reason to understand that they need to repent of their evil deeds and believe the Gospel.
There is no stronger (greater) reason than a heart changed by God.  That isn't something man can do.


You talk about the Pope not being like a typical dictator.
Yet the RCC as a community of believers enforces people to believe exactly the way she describes and if they don't they are declared anathema.
How is that not dictatorial? How could you call such a thing "unity"?
I see now that you are not even going to try to work out problems in Protestantism in this post.  Why not?  Are they impossible?
Why do you want 1 person here to try to work out problems of all Protestantism? Or what you call Protestantism - it isn't all lumped into one denom.  No reason to expect them to all believe the same.  Most tho do believe the same on major doctrine.  Many deter from some beliefs based on their personal wants, desires etc.  There are people like that everywhere - there are ministers who will support this everywhere too.  Many don't teach much from the Bible and many of the  people only want to hear the warm/fuzzy parts.


[/b][/color]There is plenty of room for opinion in the Catholic Church.  The things the Church defines for believe are just the most important things, the truths of the faith that are delivered from the apostles.  There is plenty of room for discussion on many theological issues. 
where/when  is that important truth about IC and the assumption 'delivered' from the apostles?

Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #324 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 00:12:56 »
Oh... I used to have the Bible on cassette tapes, and I loved them.  I listened to them every night before going to bed, I would let them play on after I fell asleep until they shut off on their own.  There is peace in the word.  I must have listened to those things 50 times, they wore out.  The Word of God is so exciting!!  Everyone should have the Bible to listen to!
I did that too!  During a particularly bad time I put on the Psalms at night.  I always fell asleep before that 30 minute cassette clicked off. 

Offline kensington

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #325 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 01:14:25 »
Me too Skeeter...  so many times, just a few verses or a chapter in... Peace would take over and ZZZZZzzzzzz

Offline Catholica

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #326 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 09:07:50 »
If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism. There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.
you don't 'see it'  because you define anyone who says they are Christian but aren't RC as 'protestant'.  Protestant is not 1 main denom.

Especially since non-Catholic non-Eastern Orthodox non-Coptic Christian eclessial communities are not one denomination, I don't see it as possible.

And gay marriage isn't covered in the Bible, at least, it isn't directly condemned.
yes, it is - both of these are.

Where?

Why would you bind (force) anyone to believe what you say? Even if you enforce it on them, they still don't believe in their heart.
The RCC makes the false assumption that following pre-described doctrine equals believe. That is not the case.
All Christians are bound by God to believe the Truth, and if the Truth is known with certainty, then by God they are bound to believe it, and by it they will be judged.
Christians are bound to believe God's word.

They are bound to believe the Truth as they perceive it.  God's word is truth, but the conflicting interpretations and doctrines that they extract from that source are not necessarily true.  If Christians recognize that something they believe is possibly false, they should pray about it to the Holy Spirit to lead them into Truth, and be willing to give up what they thought was true before. 

The RCC also teaches that divorce is evil, yet so many Catholics divorce anyway
So what good does "binding people" do if they don't practice it anyway?
How many Catholics do you think there are who use birth control even though the church "binds" them to not use them?
What good it does is provide them a stronger reason to understand that they need to repent of their evil deeds and believe the Gospel.
There is no stronger (greater) reason than a heart changed by God.  That isn't something man can do.

True, that's why God backs up the Church with His own Authority, and not a man-assumed authority.

1 Cor. 5
1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife.
2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Paul handed the man over to Satan because he refused to repent of his sins, by the authority he had been granted by God, so that on the man's day of judgment he might be saved.  That is the power of the Church and the reason to bind moral teachings and pronounce anathema.

You talk about the Pope not being like a typical dictator.
Yet the RCC as a community of believers enforces people to believe exactly the way she describes and if they don't they are declared anathema.
How is that not dictatorial? How could you call such a thing "unity"?
I see now that you are not even going to try to work out problems in Protestantism in this post.  Why not?  Are they impossible?
Why do you want 1 person here to try to work out problems of all Protestantism? Or what you call Protestantism - it isn't all lumped into one denom.  No reason to expect them to all believe the same.  Most tho do believe the same on major doctrine.  Many deter from some beliefs based on their personal wants, desires etc.  There are people like that everywhere - there are ministers who will support this everywhere too.  Many don't teach much from the Bible and many of the  people only want to hear the warm/fuzzy parts.
I am addressing AVZ who is pointing his finger at Catholicism, and I am countering showing the glass house that AVZ seems to be a member of is worse, because they have no path to unity, unlike the Catholic Church.

[/b][/color]There is plenty of room for opinion in the Catholic Church.  The things the Church defines for believe are just the most important things, the truths of the faith that are delivered from the apostles.  There is plenty of room for discussion on many theological issues. 
where/when  is that important truth about IC and the assumption 'delivered' from the apostles?
That's a whole other thread to talk about that.  Sorry.  There are probably other threads you could read through on this forum if you want to learn about that.  Please don't derail.

Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #327 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 10:02:39 »
If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism. There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.
you don't 'see it'  because you define anyone who says they are Christian but aren't RC as 'protestant'.  Protestant is not 1 main denom.

Especially since non-Catholic non-Eastern Orthodox non-Coptic Christian eclessial communities are not one denomination, I don't see it as possible.
They don't need to be 1 denom.  Many accept what man says.  The Bible says 'few are chosen'.  There will only be a remnant who follow Him.

Offline Catholica

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #328 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 10:17:59 »
If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism. There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.
you don't 'see it'  because you define anyone who says they are Christian but aren't RC as 'protestant'.  Protestant is not 1 main denom.

Especially since non-Catholic non-Eastern Orthodox non-Coptic Christian eclessial communities are not one denomination, I don't see it as possible.
They don't need to be 1 denom.  Many accept what man says.  The Bible says 'few are chosen'.  There will only be a remnant who follow Him.

Jesus prayed that we all would be one as He and the Father are one.  It's basically one of His last desires He expressed  before He went to offer Himself for our salvation.  Therefore it is important not only to seek unity but for there to be a means to authentically achieve unity.

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #329 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 15:25:44 »
I'm glad that many here enjoy hearing the Bible on tapes or CDs, but I think that I'll pass.

Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #330 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 16:15:29 »
If you could imagine that Christianity would have a proper and realistic way to come together and protect the doctrine which they already believe, then what would it be?

Let's say that Christianity as a whole believed that marriage is between one man and one woman, but it had never been defined in such a way that it was binding on the faithful to believe (essential belief).  And then some issue arose where some yahoos started saying that so-called "gay marriage" is just fine and starting to be a place where the faithful could come if they wanted to accept that strange idea and so justify their own false belief.

What would be your solution? 

I don't see it as possible in Protestantism. There is no one voice which is the authoritative final answer for Protestants.  And even councils of Churches in Protestantism are led astray by false doctrine, and many Protestants reject their conclusions.
you don't 'see it'  because you define anyone who says they are Christian but aren't RC as 'protestant'.  Protestant is not 1 main denom.

Especially since non-Catholic non-Eastern Orthodox non-Coptic Christian eclessial communities are not one denomination, I don't see it as possible.
They don't need to be 1 denom.  Many accept what man says.  The Bible says 'few are chosen'.  There will only be a remnant who follow Him.

Jesus prayed that we all would be one as He and the Father are one.  It's basically one of His last desires He expressed  before He went to offer Himself for our salvation.  Therefore it is important not only to seek unity but for there to be a means to authentically achieve unity.
peace at any price? no thx.
there will be unity when Christ returns.

Offline kensington

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #331 on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 - 20:35:14 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?


Offline Catholica

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #332 on: Fri May 01, 2015 - 11:27:02 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #333 on: Fri May 01, 2015 - 15:04:51 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
bingo. Kensington was right.

God got my heart, and those things sure don't come naturally... and won't.   It was after I left those things that He changed my heart.  All that other stuff just detracts from Him,  takes our time and thoughts away from Him. 
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house, their focus isn't on Him, their trust isn't in Him, their witness isn't for Him either.



Offline winsome

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #334 on: Fri May 01, 2015 - 15:13:02 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
 
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house....

What's all that about?


Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #335 on: Fri May 01, 2015 - 15:25:00 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
 
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house....

What's all that about?
If you bury him in your yard, he'll get you a buyer... google it and see what you find.  I hear Catholics saying this on a regular basis.

Offline winsome

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #336 on: Fri May 01, 2015 - 15:47:17 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
 
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house....

What's all that about?
If you bury him in your yard, he'll get you a buyer... google it and see what you find.  I hear Catholics saying this on a regular basis.

 rofl rofl rofl

I must have missed that page in the Catechism.


Offline Catholica

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #337 on: Fri May 01, 2015 - 15:54:52 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
 
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house....

What's all that about?
If you bury him in your yard, he'll get you a buyer... google it and see what you find.  I hear Catholics saying this on a regular basis.

 rofl rofl rofl

I must have missed that page in the Catechism.

I've heard of it before.  It's not sanctioned by the Church, of course.  And I would hold that the church would say that it is a sin to do that, superstitious. 

skeeter, It's easy to be scandalized when people who are well-meaning Catholics do things which are clearly sinful.  Usually they don't know any better.  That is no reason to abandon the Eucharist.  Jesus not only wants your heart, he wants your whole mind, your whole strength.  And He wants to give you His heart as well, and he does that through the Eucharist.
« Last Edit: Fri May 01, 2015 - 16:07:25 by Catholica »

Offline chosenone

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #338 on: Fri May 01, 2015 - 17:14:53 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
bingo. Kensington was right.

God got my heart, and those things sure don't come naturally... and won't.   It was after I left those things that He changed my heart.  All that other stuff just detracts from Him,  takes our time and thoughts away from Him. 
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house, their focus isn't on Him, their trust isn't in Him, their witness isn't for Him either.

There is a of of superstition wrapped on in the RC faith, especially in some parts of the world. 

Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #339 on: Fri May 01, 2015 - 23:44:45 »
The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house....
What's all that about?
If you bury him in your yard, he'll get you a buyer... google it and see what you find.  I hear Catholics saying this on a regular basis.

 rofl rofl rofl

I must have missed that page in the Catechism.
I've heard of it before. It's not sanctioned by the Church, of course.  And I would hold that the church would say that it is a sin to do that, superstitious. 

skeeter, It's easy to be scandalized when people who are well-meaning Catholics do things which are clearly sinfulUsually they don't know any better.  That is no reason to abandon the Eucharist.  Jesus not only wants your heart, he wants your whole mind, your whole strength.  And He wants to give you His heart as well, and he does that through the Eucharist.
Then the  RC does a poor job of teaching its people - even those who go to Catholic schools. 
Catholics who believe this (and encourage others to do it) would scratch your eyes out if they heard you say that...  I don't find it different than believing St Anthony will find lost items or wearing a St Christopher medal - or a scapular.  It all deflects and detracts from Him.  Why set people up for this superstitious stuff like the RC does?

Are you saying I've abandoned the Eucharist? Why, because I don't think it's His flesh in real? (no, I believe His word in John 6)   Or because you think I should go to communion every week like you say Catholics do?  I know that many, many Catholics don't tho.  I can have it any time I want.  You are more limited than I am in that.

Or that He doesn't have my heart?  OR I don't have His?  because I don't accept what the RCC teaches?  He gave me His heart and He changed my heart - making Him priority.  There was no Eucharist when it happened either.  He isn't limited by that.   He doesn't have to share me with others like Mary, the saints, the pope or someone else's  word/rules.  They are fillers and I don't need fillers - I have a direct relationship with Him.

winsome - did you google it?  there are Catholics who get really nasty if you say anything about it not being real... They believe it and can cite friends and relatives who did it and their house sold asap.  That scapular thing is a real case too. Were the Apostles running around with those things back in their day?

Offline winsome

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #340 on: Sat May 02, 2015 - 05:23:00 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
bingo. Kensington was right.

God got my heart, and those things sure don't come naturally... and won't.   It was after I left those things that He changed my heart.  All that other stuff just detracts from Him,  takes our time and thoughts away from Him. 
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house, their focus isn't on Him, their trust isn't in Him, their witness isn't for Him either.

There is a of of superstition wrapped on in the RC faith, especially in some parts of the world.

No,  there is no supersition in our faith.

There is some superstition in uneducated people who do not properly understand the faith.

Offline winsome

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #341 on: Sat May 02, 2015 - 05:31:49 »
The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.
When people are burying St joseph in their front yard in order to sell their house....
What's all that about?
If you bury him in your yard, he'll get you a buyer... google it and see what you find.  I hear Catholics saying this on a regular basis.

 rofl rofl rofl

I must have missed that page in the Catechism.
I've heard of it before. It's not sanctioned by the Church, of course.  And I would hold that the church would say that it is a sin to do that, superstitious. 

skeeter, It's easy to be scandalized when people who are well-meaning Catholics do things which are clearly sinfulUsually they don't know any better.  That is no reason to abandon the Eucharist.  Jesus not only wants your heart, he wants your whole mind, your whole strength.  And He wants to give you His heart as well, and he does that through the Eucharist.

winsome - did you google it?  there are Catholics who get really nasty if you say anything about it not being real... They believe it and can cite friends and relatives who did it and their house sold asap.  That scapular thing is a real case too. Were the Apostles running around with those things back in their day?

skeeter,

I've never heard of this in the UK. It must be a peculiarly American thing.

The scapular is entirely different, although anything can be used in a superstistious way by undecucated & illiterate people. I have met several Irish travellers. In some ways their faith is very strong but at the same time close to superstition. It's not their fault they have no education.

Two questions for you.

How many Catholics are there is the USA?
How many of them believe in this burying statues stuff?

Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #342 on: Sat May 02, 2015 - 13:01:51 »
winsome - did you google it?  there are Catholics who get really nasty if you say anything about it not being real... They believe it and can cite friends and relatives who did it and their house sold asap.  That scapular thing is a real case too. Were the Apostles running around with those things back in their day?
skeeter,

I've never heard of this in the UK. It must be a peculiarly American thing.

The scapular is entirely different, although anything can be used in a superstistious way by undecucated & illiterate people. I have met several Irish travellers. In some ways their faith is very strong but at the same time close to superstition. It's not their fault they have no education.

Two questions for you.

How many Catholics are there is the USA?
How many of them believe in this burying statues stuff?
Many in the UK know about this.  There are many on the forum (secular) I have been on for about 10 yrs.  It has members world wide - many in the UK.  There's probably a thread about something like this several times a yr.  They get lots of views - many into the thousands. 

I wouldn't consider anyone who is superstitious to be uneducated & illiterate.  Just ignorant on that topic.   A great number of people consider Catholics to be superstitious...

There are probably at least half as many Catholics in the US as the RC claims there is.

A good %age of them believe in things like burying Joseph, the Christopher medal, St Anthony, Jude etc.

Brown Scapular   Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel (Carmelites)      A.D. 1251

"The Brown Scapular of our Lady of Mount Carmel," associated with the Carmelite Order, is the most well-known. In A.D. 16 July 1251, Our Lady appeared to St. Simon Stock in Cambridge, England after he prayed for help for his Order. She appeared to him with the scapular and said, "Take, beloved son this scapular of thy order as a badge of my confraternity and for thee and all Carmelites a special sign of grace; whoever dies in this garment, will not suffer everlasting fire. It is the sign of salvation, a safeguard in dangers, a pledge of peace and of the covenant."

Whether this happened exactly in this way or not (St. Simon's original descriptions of the vision are not extant and the wording may not be exact), the Scapular was given to St. Simon Stock, and the devotion spread and was well-known by the 16th c. What can be safely believed because of papal decree is the promise known as the "Sabbatine Privilege." The Sabbatine Privilege is the promise that Our Lady will intercede and pray for those in Purgatory who, in earthly life:  wore the Scapular in good faith; were chaste according to their state in life; daily recited the Divine Office or, with the permission of one's Confessor, the Little Office of Our Lady [a shorter form of the Divine Office in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary, used by certain religious orders and laity. It is similar to the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the Roman Breviary] or the Rosary; and departed earthly life in charity.


https://fisheaters.com/scapulars.html

Offline winsome

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #343 on: Sat May 02, 2015 - 14:57:58 »
 
winsome - did you google it?  there are Catholics who get really nasty if you say anything about it not being real... They believe it and can cite friends and relatives who did it and their house sold asap.  That scapular thing is a real case too. Were the Apostles running around with those things back in their day?

 skeeter,
 
 I've never heard of this in the UK. It must be a peculiarly American thing.
 
 The scapular is entirely different, although anything can be used in a superstistious way by undecucated & illiterate people. I have met several Irish travellers. In some ways their faith is very strong but at the same time close to superstition. It's not their fault they have no education.
 
 Two questions for you.
 
 How many Catholics are there is the USA?
 How many of them believe in this burying statues stuff?

 Many in the UK know about this.  There are many on the forum (secular) I have been on for about 10 yrs.  It has members world wide - many in the UK.  There's probably a thread about something like this several times a yr.  They get lots of views - many into the thousands. 
 
 I wouldn't consider anyone who is superstitious to be uneducated & illiterate.  Just ignorant on that topic.   A great number of people consider Catholics to be superstitious...
 
 There are probably at least half as many Catholics in the US as the RC claims there is.
 
 A good %age of them believe in things like burying Joseph, the Christopher medal, St Anthony, Jude etc.
 

 
 
You don’t know how many Catholics there are in the USA.
 
You don’t know how many believe in this St. Joseph statue nonsense
 
You can’t read my posts correctly. I didn’t say those who are superstitious are uneducated and illiterate. I said anything can be used in a superstitious way by undeducated & illiterate people. Not quite the same.

 

 Brown Scapular   Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel (Carmelites)      A.D. 1251
 
 "The Brown Scapular of our Lady of Mount Carmel," associated with the Carmelite Order, is the most well-known. In A.D. 16 July 1251, Our Lady appeared to St. Simon Stock in Cambridge, England after he prayed for help for his Order. She appeared to him with the scapular and said, "Take, beloved son this scapular of thy order as a badge of my confraternity and for thee and all Carmelites a special sign of grace; whoever dies in this garment, will not suffer everlasting fire. It is the sign of salvation, a safeguard in dangers, a pledge of peace and of the covenant."
 
 Whether this happened exactly in this way or not (St. Simon's original descriptions of the vision are not extant and the wording may not be exact), the Scapular was given to St. Simon Stock, and the devotion spread and was well-known by the 16th c. What can be safely believed because of papal decree is the promise known as the "Sabbatine Privilege." The Sabbatine Privilege is the promise that Our Lady will intercede and pray for those in Purgatory who, in earthly life:  wore the Scapular in good faith; were chaste according to their state in life; daily recited the Divine Office or, with the permission of one's Confessor, the Little Office of Our Lady [a shorter form of the Divine Office in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary, used by certain religious orders and laity. It is similar to the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the Roman Breviary] or the Rosary; and departed earthly life in charity.
 
 
 https://fisheaters.com/scapulars.html
 

 
I prefer to stick with what the Carmelites themselves say:
 
The Scapular finds its roots in the tradition of the Order [that's the Carmelites], which has seen in it a sign of Mary’s motherly protection. It has therefore, a centuries old spiritual meaning approved by Church.
 
It stands for a commitment to follow Jesus, like Mary, the perfect model of all the disciples of Christ. This commitment finds its origin in baptism by which we become children of God.
 
It leads us into the community of Carmel, a community of religious men and women, which has existed in the Church for over eight centuries.
 
It reminds us of the example of the saints of Carmel, with whom we establish a close bond as brothers and sisters to one another.
 
It is an expression of our belief that we will meet God in eternal life, aided by the intercession and prayers of Mary.
 
Note the following:
The Carmelite Scapular is not:
a magical charm to protect you
an automatic guarantee of salvation
an excuse for not living up to the demands of the Christian life

It is a sign:
which has been approved by the Church for over seven centuries;
which stands for the decision to
- follow Jesus like Mary:
- be open to God and to his will
- be guided by faith, hope, and love
- to pray at all times
- to discover God present in all that happens around us.

Note that the site tells is that this is:
The only official text regarding the Brown Scapular written by a joint commission of OCD’s (Discalced Carmelite Order) and OCarm’s (Carmelite Order) in 1999.

The Catholic Encyclopaedia has this to say about the Sabbetine Privilege:
 The Sabbatine Privilege is derived from the apocryphal Bull Sacratissimo uti culmine of John XXII, March 3, 1322…….. Today it is universally regarded by scholars as inauthentic, even the "Monumenta histor. Carmel." of the Carmelite B. Zimmerman (I, Lérins, 1907, pp. 356-63) joining in rejecting it.




 More from Carmel.net on the Sabbatine Bull:
The story of the scapular expanded from the apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary to Saint Simon Stock promising him that he and all Carmelites who die in the scapular will be preserved from hell to a claim that the Virgin would deliver from purgatory on the first Saturday after death any soul who had died in the scapular.  This promise was allegedly revealed to Pope John XXII in a vision of 1322 and came to be called the Sabbatine privilege (from the Sabbath or Saturday connection).

The privilege was not without opposition.  In 1603 a book containing the privileges of the Carmelite Order, including the Sabbatine privilege, was condemned by the Portuguese InquisitionSix years later all books mentioning the Sabbatine privilege were put on the Index of Forbidden Books in Portugal.  An appeal to Rome ended when the Roman authorities supported the Inquisition's ban.  However, on January 20, 1613 the Roman Inquisition permitted the Carmelites to preach:

the faithful may devoutly believe that the Blessed Virgin by her continuous intercession, merciful prayers, merits and special protection will assist the souls of deceased brothers and members of the confraternity, especially on Saturday, the day which the church dedicates to the Blessed Virgin.  The conditions for trusting in such a favor are that the recipients die in a state of grace, wear the Carmelite habit, observe chastity according to their state in life and recite the little office of the Blessed Virgin; if they can not recite it they are to observe the church fasts and abstain from meat on Wednesdays and Saturdays, unless Christmas falls on these days.

This was not a confirmation of the Sabbatine privilege.  It simply permitted that the faithful may believe that Our Lady will assist members of the scapular confraternity after the deaths if certain other requirements are kept.  As to the Sabbatine privilege, and the alleged bull of John XXII, the Inquisition wanted the whole matter to fade from the memory of the faithful:  "It (the above decree) was accompanied by a recommendation that the Carmelite Fathers 'shall not mention the Sabbatine bull, in order that the term may be forgotten'."
Another significant problem regarding the authenticity of the Sabbatine Bull is that there is no record, much less copy, of this bull in the papal archives. While this would not guarantee 100% against the authenticity of a particular bull, combined with the other evidence it does indicate almost certain forgery.  Carmelite historians have indeed determined that the bull is a fifteenth century forgery originating in Sicily.
 

Offline mclees8

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #344 on: Sat May 02, 2015 - 16:23:42 »
So you are saying there will be peace in the body of Christ if we Christians who are not Catholic will just become Catholic and start following being sheep to the Pope?  That if we will just start going along with the graven images, the adoration of Saints, the Worship and praying to Mary, just keep our mouths shut to the Bible, we can all just get along?  The annulments of marriages for remarriage?  Adoration? Worshipping the bread and wine?  Praying the Rosary for sins?  Then we will all be one body?

Aside from praying to Mary and adoration, Catholics don't do any of those things.  Therefore no.

However if you meant "honoring the papal office, using statues or pictures as memorials of holy things, the veneration of Saints, the hyperdulia given to and praying to Mary, the treasuring of the Bible, annulments to demonstrate that in God's eyes a marriage never existed, adoration of the One Triune God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, praying the Rosary for sinners":  then still no

Those things are external signs of religion, and doing those things only makes a person look religious.  To be united we need to worship together in spirit and in Truth, loving the Lord and his bride the Church. 

The heart is what God is after, and once God has our heart, then all of those things I mentioned in my 2nd paragraph come naturally because we see that God loves us so much not to leave us orphans, but to give us a Church built on the Rock which is Christ, which would always be there in every age to show us the Christian life in all it's glory, which the Catholic Church is and does.

If you know all those outward things are appearance's of religion and that God is after the heart why are you going around the block to come back to the same corner.  What you need to do is get off the block to the other side of the street. The block that centers our faith in the heart without all the useless extra baggage.

Offline skeeter

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Re: The biggest reason I am catholic
« Reply #345 on: Sun May 03, 2015 - 14:55:33 »
It's all made up by man.  Filling the time of people that should be spent focusing on our Lord.

 

     
anything