The ROOT of our differences is the AUTHORITY we claim.....

[Tantor]

There are at least a dozen other sites out there with similar information.

BTW... I feel the same way about catholics as you do about 'moonies'...

I don't take anything the Pope or catholic site or catholic history says as having any credibility whatsoever.  You know the old adage "the victors write the history"... and since the RCC was so political for so many years and rewrote history in their favor there is not much to believe in anything they say.

[winsome]

There are at least a dozen other sites out there with similar information.

BTW... I feel the same way about catholics as you do about 'moonies'...

I don't take anything the Pope or catholic site or catholic history says as having any credibility whatsoever.  You know the old adage "the victors write the history"... and since the RCC was so political for so many years and rewrote history in their favor there is not much to believe in anything they say.

Are you suggesting the Wikipedia article was written by Catholics?

[Tantor]

There are at least a dozen other sites out there with similar information.

BTW... I feel the same way about catholics as you do about 'moonies'...

I don't take anything the Pope or catholic site or catholic history says as having any credibility whatsoever.  You know the old adage "the victors write the history"... and since the RCC was so political for so many years and rewrote history in their favor there is not much to believe in anything they say.

Are you suggesting the Wikipedia article was written by Catholics?

Anybody can write/edit a Wikipedia article.  Why don't you log onto wikipedia and give it a try for yourself.

[Fallen Knight]

Forgive me folks, give a quick reply to Macca mclees.

Dear Macca,
                     I originally asked you to back up your obviously uneducated claims to history and the Catholic Church ( and for your information regarding "RC" and "Catholic", the saint who coined the word "Catholic" believed in everything I do,  please go away and study fact and truth ) and you replied with a small quote from wikopedia and then your own unsupported rendition of Napoleonic history ( )
I then ask you to explain St Ignatius' writings regarding belief in the Eucharist in 97AD against your claims about the Catholic church not existing for another 300 yrs, and you reply once again with personalistic, fundamentalist rantings and ( surprise surprise ) no real answer.

As I said earlier, I know some beautiful faith filled Protestant Christians, and the important differences between us I will let Our Lord point out when we face Him. But you my friend are not one. For they are at least wise enough to know what they are talking about before talking.

If you disagree with me, then by all means, answer me with fact regarding the Eucharist, Ignatius and Catholic Church.


I'll wait  ( with a smile )

[mclees8]

Forgive me folks, give a quick reply to Macca mclees.

Dear Macca,
                     I originally asked you to back up your obviously uneducated claims to history and the Catholic Church ( and for your information regarding "RC" and "Catholic", the saint who coined the word "Catholic" believed in everything I do,  please go away and study fact and truth ) and you replied with a small quote from wikopedia and then your own unsupported rendition of Napoleonic history ( )
I then ask you to explain St Ignatius' writings regarding belief in the Eucharist in 97AD against your claims about the Catholic church not existing for another 300 yrs, and you reply once again with personalistic, fundamentalist rantings and ( surprise surprise ) no real answer.

As I said earlier, I know some beautiful faith filled Protestant Christians, and the important differences between us I will let Our Lord point out when we face Him. But you my friend are not one. For they are at least wise enough to know what they are talking about before talking.

If you disagree with me, then by all means, answer me with fact regarding the Eucharist, Ignatius and Catholic Church.


I'll wait  ( with a smile )

Sorry I have reduced you to giving a pet name and making minimizing and insulting remarks and feeling all smug and smiley, but his is all you can do.  Keep smiling   

[mclees8]

While you are waiting you can re read what i already posted.


Setting the record Straight

Satan is the great deceiver . I once wrote a small book or booklet  I was led to call “The Counterfeit“. Because Satan from the beginning of the church has sought to destroy and misguide The Lords church by deception, confusion, and  producing a counterfeit of Christ church. It is a nature of men to fall into apostasy. It is nothing new because apostasy was part of the sin nature as far back as the fall of man. 

First lets understand how apostasy works. We just don’t wake up one day and commit apostasy. It starts out seemingly innocent and harmless, but with time  it will completely change the whole concept of what was first taught.  It is in full blossom when the church returns to worldliness  being guided of men and mans wisdom and carnal instincts Lets look at deception, which is nothing more than a lie that poses as the truth. Confusion is misunderstanding the facts. Which distorts and misleads the truth. 
All  this surrounds this word catholic which the RCC papacy uses to confuse and hold captive the church and even the world  at large. Lets look at when this word was first used. First there is no evidence that this word was used for the church before Ignatius used it in 110 AD. It was just a term that caught on and stuck.  So this word was a term he chose to use to describe those who were the church and were of one universal faith in Christ. It was meant to include all who confessed Jesus as Lord. There were no divisions of the faith. Even though there were some who tried to bring division. There was a vast difference from the church of 110 AD and what the Roman catholic church became in 500AD. First the church was not Roman catholic in 110 AD.  Ignatius  was speaking of all believers which by the true meaning of the word is still all believers today. No Protestant or RCC division.. The papacy made the word synonymous with the Roman catholic church saying the church has always been Catholic, but what they really mean is that the church was always Roman Catholic It was a power and authority issue.  Nothing could be further from the truth. This is the deception that they use to confuse the church into believing the church was always the Roman Catholic papal system and the church that Jesus founded This is deception in capitals and keeps the  people  captive to a false idea that the  self imposed papal authority represents Christ true church. It stopped being Christ True church when the bishops of Rome became drunk with the ideal of being the religious political law of the land, and the center of all Christendom.

The next deception is the true church Christ founded was not political and never was supposed to become a political ambition. Jesus himself rejected this in the temptations of
Satan. What did Satan offer? He said I will give you the whole world if you will worship me . Of course Jesus rejected quickly that we must serve God and Him only. Think about it, Jesus could ruled the world. He would not have had to suffer the cross, but it  was not the Father’s purpose or will. Neither did Jesus ever teach that the church was to dominate or seek to dominate the world religiously or politically  Salvation is not adherence to a religious political authority.. When they became the supreme authority of the land they said salvation could only be achieved through adherence to the papacy. It was not an issue of personal faith anymore. It was forced religion and intimidation that played upon ignorance and fear of losing one’s  salvation by excommunication. or Anathema . Neither Jesus or Peter ever would have been party to this. Christ was presented up front but the real truth was they robbed Jesus seat and falsely claimed to sit in on the throne of Peter. Not to mention Peter would never sit on any throne like any pope. They were in bed with the world and its kings This ambition was worldly and carnal, and is the very reason this church is referred to as the Harlot in Revelation 17. 

The next deception was they said there was no salvation out side the church which is true except they did not truly represent the church because they institutionalized it. They made the church a thing, a hierarchy centered on the idea of authority and leadership. They became an exalted clergy with religious vestments and titles They were the church and there was no true laity because the clergy was exalted above the people who were not saved by personal confession but forced to observance of the Mass and the rituals of the Eucharist. One is not saved by mere observances. .Those who truly confess Jesus from the heart inter into the church by faith, not forced observances. This of course was before the Reformation. But the politics of this world and the exaltation of the clergy is still very much alive. After the reformation the exalted clergy system was still used by Protestant churches.  This gives the mistaken idea that we are going to church instead of being the church.   

God bless

Keep smiling 



     . 

       

[banished]

Dear Macca,

You continously talk about the quick sands of deception and the toils of deepening matter in the Catholic Church.  Please, give us a break once in a while.  If you think we are living during the end of the church age, Harold Camping of Family Radio has some interesting stuff posted at his Web Site. He has a pretty good case. 

[mclees8]

Dear Macca,

You continously talk about the quick sands of deception and the toils of deepening matter in the Catholic Church.  Please, give us a break once in a while.  If you think we are living during the end of the church age, Harold Camping of Family Radio has some interesting stuff posted at his Web Site. He has a pretty good case. 

I don't take any cues from camping. I  can't  stop talking about the deception that is within the church.

[banished]

Dear Macca,

You continously talk about the quick sands of deception and the toils of deepening matter in the Catholic Church.  Please, give us a break once in a while.  If you think we are living during the end of the church age, Harold Camping of Family Radio has some interesting stuff posted at his Web Site. He has a pretty good case. 

I don't take any cues from camping. I  can't  stop talking about the deception that is within the church.

That do you think of Harld Camping?  I have my car radio tuned to Family Radio and never change it.  That means that I have listened to Family Radio everyday for at least 30 years.  His home office is here in Oakland.

[winsome]

The big deception started in the 16th century when “Reformers” broke away from Christ’s Church and started their own. They listened to the same lie that Satan whispered into Eve’s ear in the Garden of Eden – be your own god, you decide what’s right and wrong; you decide how you want to worship God. So they started their own churches, thousands of them, from the bigger congregations like Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvanists, Methodists, Baptists, Pentecostals, SDAs, Plymouth Brethren, Anabaptist, etc, (and all the sub divisions within them) to the one-off one pastor church.  Protestantism has absorbed the three great deceptive philosophies of the modern age – Individualism, Minimalism and Materialism - and embedded it into its doctrines.

Individualism – their version of Christianity is all about my personal relationship with Christ and my personal interpretation of scripture.

Minimalism  - they have rejected the Sacraments, the liturgical aseembly, noble works, etc in favour of OSAS, so once they have accepted Jesus as “personal Lord and Saviour” – that’s it.

Materialism – as evidenced by prosperity gospel, mega churches that are more like pop concert venues that places for worshipping God, slick presentations instead of liturgies.

No, not all Protestants embrace all of these fully. They are such a disparate fractured movement. There is little they can all agree on.

[Tantor]

Actually the RCC is pretty much no different then Islam when it comes to how it has co-opted things.

Islam says that Jesus was a prophet.. which is pretty much how the RCC treats him.

Islam adopted Jesus into their religion... which is pretty much what the RCC did.

[desertknight]

Actually the RCC is pretty much no different then Islam when it comes to how it has co-opted things.

Islam says that Jesus was a prophet.. which is pretty much how the RCC treats him.

Islam adopted Jesus into their religion... which is pretty much what the RCC did.

I honestly cannot imagine how a sane person can make such bizarre statements, so completely off the wall as this above and so completely detached from fact.  It's mind-boggling.  

[banished]

The big deception started in the 16th century when “Reformers” broke away from Christ’s Church and started their own. They listened to the same lie that Satan whispered into Eve’s ear in the Garden of Eden – be your own god, you decide what’s right and wrong; you decide how you want to worship God. So they started their own churches, thousands of them, from the bigger congregations like Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvanists, Methodists, Baptists, Pentecostals, SDAs, Plymouth Brethren, Anabaptist, etc, (and all the sub divisions within them) to the one-off one pastor church.  Protestantism has absorbed the three great deceptive philosophies of the modern age – Individualism, Minimalism and Materialism - and embedded it into its doctrines.

Individualism – their version of Christianity is all about my personal relationship with Christ and my personal interpretation of scripture.

Minimalism  - they have rejected the Sacraments, the liturgical aseembly, noble works, etc in favour of OSAS, so once they have accepted Jesus as “personal Lord and Saviour” – that’s it.

Materialism – as evidenced by prosperity gospel, mega churches that are more like pop concert venues that places for worshipping God, slick presentations instead of liturgies.

No, not all Protestants embrace all of these fully. They are such a disparate fractured movement. There is little they can all agree on.

winsome,

Although I have no choice but to be on the Protestant side of Authority because of being excommunicated like they were, I tend to agree with you.  Jesus is high priest forever, and he is not a German. The German history is not kind to Jews.  Remember that many of us would return to the church if the Catholics weren't such heartless bastards.  The Catholics simply wont let us back in because of who we are married to. I have tried many times to give my confession to a priest and take communion.  The priest always use the same phrase, "DON'T APPROACH THE EUCHARIST".  I have to give the priests credit for one thing, there is unity. How would you like to get down on your knees in the confession booth in front of a priest and give an honest confession, only to be told, "DON'T APPROACH THE EUCHARIST".  Always the same phrase, like robots.  My view from the Protestant side of Authority doesn't put the Catholics in good light.  I will never give up my Catholic faith, but I can see the Catholics for who they are. All I do is say the Rosary everyday, and try not to think about it. 

That was a good piece, and I agree 100 percent, but you forgot about excommunications.

[Tantor]

Actually the RCC is pretty much no different then Islam when it comes to how it has co-opted things.

Islam says that Jesus was a prophet.. which is pretty much how the RCC treats him.

Islam adopted Jesus into their religion... which is pretty much what the RCC did.

I honestly cannot imagine how a sane person can make such bizarre statements, so completely off the wall as this above and so completely detached from fact.  It's mind-boggling.   

If you know your history.. especially the pagan traditions of Rome prior to its christianization you would see this plain as day.

All rome did was take their existing pagan temples.. chisel off the name of their gods and chisel back on a christian name... they replaced the pantheon of gods with a pantheon of christian 'saints' and replaced artimis with Mary.

The RCC is exactly the same as Paganizm.. only the names have changed.

[desertknight]

Actually the RCC is pretty much no different then Islam when it comes to how it has co-opted things.

Islam says that Jesus was a prophet.. which is pretty much how the RCC treats him.

Islam adopted Jesus into their religion... which is pretty much what the RCC did.

I honestly cannot imagine how a sane person can make such bizarre statements, so completely off the wall as this above and so completely detached from fact.  It's mind-boggling.  

If you know your history.. especially the pagan traditions of Rome prior to its christianization you would see this plain as day.

All rome did was take their existing pagan temples.. chisel off the name of their gods and chisel back on a christian name... they replaced the pantheon of gods with a pantheon of christian 'saints' and replaced artimis with Mary.

The RCC is exactly the same as Paganizm.. only the names have changed.

Again, completely bizarre.  I just attended Mass last night, and like every service my Church has celebrated for 2,000 years, it's centre and core is our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.  His Word was proclaimed to the faithful and His Body and Blood was received at Holy Eucharist.  At every Mass the Holy Bible is read, the Word preached, the consecrated bread and wine received, and prayers offered.   Mary is venerated because she is the mother of our Lord, our queen mother.  Artemis?  The huntress carrying a bow and arrows?  Lol.  

What do Catholics really believe?  We publicly proclaim it at every Mass...

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=RNiCsTDAU70