Why be RC, why be Protestant

[mclees8]

What constitutes saving faith. being a good loyal Catholic goning to mass every day. I tell you right now IT IS no the out ward things we do but the inward person we are that makes any of us his.
It may not be the outward thing we do but your criterian of the "inward person" certainly requires a bit more definition.

And yes going to mass everyday plays a huge role in saving faith. But to explain that will take more time.

Peace!


Mike > I don,t believe Christ taught all that your legalist church has taught .


Going to mass every days saves you. Did the apostles do that?  How about walking with Christ every day. There's a song we sing ( I come to the Garden alone when the dew is still on the Roses. Yes it is bliss for me every day. You need a definition What are the two greatest commandments. (Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart mind and soul, and thy neighbor as thyself. In this lies all the law and the Prophets. I belieive the definition is ( Love)  Define love and you define Christ     

[TradCath]

'You are Peter and Upon This Rock, I will build My Church'
-Christ, Matthew
This Rock, My Church. There is No Plural.  Its pretty simple



Jesus Christ established A Church—not a book—to be the Foundation of the Christian faith
(Luke 20:29-32; Matt. 10:40; 28:18-20).


Jesus entrusted Peter with his flock, making him too a Good Shepherd (John 21:15-17).
Peter was First Patriarch of Antioch then Founded Church of Rome.
(Matt. 16:18)
Peter listed as the First of the Apostles in all NT. Recorded more than any other disciple. Given command to 'Feed my lambs' 3 times.


Galatians 1:6-9
'I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Some people are throwing you into confusion and  pervert the gospel of Christ
But even if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned.  If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!'


Protest-ants & Jews know the final empire in the Scriptures will be 100% Roman Catholic so the true gospel can be preached to the world before JEW Anti Christ.
And why they attack the Catholic Church, its peoples, monasteries, governments.
They know the wh*re is Judaism/ Occult Judaism.
OCCULT Jews occupy The Throne for now.

[mclees8]

'You are Peter and Upon This Rock, I will build My Church'
-Christ, Matthew
This Rock, My Church. There is No Plural.  Its pretty simple



Jesus Christ established A Church—not a book—to be the Foundation of the Christian faith
(Luke 20:29-32; Matt. 10:40; 28:18-20).


Jesus entrusted Peter with his flock, making him too a Good Shepherd (John 21:15-17).
Peter was First Patriarch of Antioch then Founded Church of Rome.
(Matt. 16:18)
Peter listed as the First of the Apostles in all NT. Recorded more than any other disciple. Given command to 'Feed my lambs' 3 times.


Galatians 1:6-9
'I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Some people are throwing you into confusion and  pervert the gospel of Christ
But even if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned.  If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!'


Protest-ants & Jews know the final empire in the Scriptures will be 100% Roman Catholic so the true gospel can be preached to the world before JEW Anti Christ.
And why they attack the Catholic Church, its peoples, monasteries, governments.
They know the wh*re is Judaism/ Occult Judaism.
OCCULT Jews occupy The Throne for now.

If it is Peter as the head of Christ's church then follow Him and the example for christ he was. Please tell me where in scripture does it ever say that the church will be 100% Roman Cathlolic. This much I know and listen well. the Lord knows no Catholic or Protestant.  He knows who his bride is and will recieve them when he returns. he has no pet denomination. He will find his bride that give their life  for his sake. 

Rev 6:9>And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them;

 Rev 7:14> These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Rev 12:11> And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Thes spoken of here may sit on many pews. there wiil be two in the field, one will be taken and the other one left.

Please mind well this will not be a demoninational or organized church thing. The question is How will Jesus find you. You will not be taken because of any affiliation. You will not be able to where a sign saying what a good catholic you were.

Every one will be tested for his works and that is not about how will you served the institution but what was in your heart that motivates one to love his neighbor

God Bless 
 

     

[trifecta]

Galatians 1:6-9
'I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Some people are throwing you into confusion and  pervert the gospel of Christ
But even if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned.  If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!'[/b]

The question here is what is the gospel and what is another gospel.   Is the penal substitution theory the gospel?  No.  The early church did not use this model.  It begins to take hold only in the 11th century.  Is sola scriptura an early church doctrine?  No.  The church came up with the idea of the New Testament.   

If it is Peter as the head of Christ's church then follow Him and the example for christ he was. Please tell me where in scripture does it ever say that the church will be 100% Roman Cathlolic.

The church is not the sum of all believers.  That is the book of life, not the church.  Protestants changed the definition of the church to this;  the church is real (organization), earthly as well as heavenly.  It is not a concept. 

It is also undivided, since Christ cannot be divided, as Paul says.  Therefore, there can be only one true church.   Note in Matthew 16:18 Jesus says he will build his church, not churches. 

By the way, I do not think the RCC is that one true church.  However, I expect there to be Protestants and Catholics in the book of life.   See the difference?

This much I know and listen well. the Lord knows no Catholic or Protestant.  He knows who his bride is and will recieve them when he returns.

True, but this doesn't mean there that the church doesn't matter. The church is God's witness on earth and even heaven (Eph. 3:10).

he has no pet denomination. He will find his bride that give their life  for his sake. 

Actually, he does.  He established one church. See above.  He loves the church.

You will not be able to where a sign saying what a good catholic you were.

But do you replace the word "Catholic" with "Christian?"  We will have to give an account for everything we have done.   Is defending and helping his Church part of these things?

Every one will be tested for his works and that is not about how will you served the institution

I hope that I served the church well.  It's not unimportant.

but what was in your heart that motivates one to love his neighbor

That may count for even more.
 
 

     

[banished]

trifecta,

God bless you!  I learned a lot from your last post.  Thanks

[mclees8]

Galatians 1:6-9
'I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Some people are throwing you into confusion and  pervert the gospel of Christ
But even if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned.  If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!'[/b]

The question here is what is the gospel and what is another gospel.   Is the penal substitution theory the gospel?  No.  The early church did not use this model.  It begins to take hold only in the 11th century.  Is sola scriptura an early church doctrine?  No.  The church came up with the idea of the New Testament.   

If it is Peter as the head of Christ's church then follow Him and the example for christ he was. Please tell me where in scripture does it ever say that the church will be 100% Roman Cathlolic.

The church is not the sum of all believers.  That is the book of life, not the church.  Protestants changed the definition of the church to this;  the church is real (organization), earthly as well as heavenly.  It is not a concept. 

It is also undivided, since Christ cannot be divided, as Paul says.  Therefore, there can be only one true church.   Note in Matthew 16:18 Jesus says he will build his church, not churches. 

By the way, I do not think the RCC is that one true church.  However, I expect there to be Protestants and Catholics in the book of life.   See the difference?

This much I know and listen well. the Lord knows no Catholic or Protestant.  He knows who his bride is and will recieve them when he returns.

True, but this doesn't mean there that the church doesn't matter. The church is God's witness on earth and even heaven (Eph. 3:10).

he has no pet denomination. He will find his bride that give their life  for his sake. 

Actually, he does.  He established one church. See above.  He loves the church.

You will not be able to where a sign saying what a good catholic you were.

But do you replace the word "Catholic" with "Christian?"  We will have to give an account for everything we have done.   Is defending and helping his Church part of these things?

Every one will be tested for his works and that is not about how will you served the institution

I hope that I served the church well.  It's not unimportant.

but what was in your heart that motivates one to love his neighbor

That may count for even more.
 
 

     

The church has always been one church. It is man who divides it attaches its names to it introduces its own beliefs, doctrines, traditions that were not of the apostles. It was men who institutionalized it and separated the clergy and exalted it. It was man who gave tiles and rank to clergy and put on special garments as to be set apart to be called Rabbi Rabbi.     

This is not to say there are to be leaders whom we are to respect, but I believe the apostles did nothing to call attention to themselves as to be over anyone. Even when certain people of a town tried to worship Paul and Silas they said no we are just men like you. for this they ran them out of town.

It is man who wants to be glorified with rank title and position. It is man who who desires to have power and recognition. But this is not what Jesus ever taught for those who know Him and see his truth. we are not he exalted ones but as John the Baptist said , He must increase and I must decrease. I love my neighbor and do good works that honors God and lifts up the name of Christ just as Christ called all of us to do not out of any sense of duty but it is now Christ who lives in me. Love compassion and faith are now apart of who I am and still being perfected in me

Think now this is how it was long before we were made to see grand cathedrals and with popes cardinals and all this other exalted priest hood that institutionalizes the church as a thing, a hierarchy of religious piety and A place we go to on Sunday. Yes we should gather to Worship, but we glorify him as one who is given not to an institution but to Him.

I gather with others and help bring Christ to the poor on Sunday and we worship under a tree. Are we not doing in His name and are we not the church just as much as in any church with a steeple? Jesus ministered in the streets and on mountainsides. there is nothing wrong with going to a place of worship as we do not worship it but Him who sits at the right hand of God. It is not the place of worship or the clergy system that is the only vehicle to Christ for is truly institutionalizes the church. Jesus told the women at the well that that day has come when you will not worship on your mountain nor In Jerusalem but the true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth

God bless

[winsome]

I gather with others and help bring Christ to the poor on Sunday and we worship under a tree. Are we not doing in His name and are we not the church just as much as in any church with a steeple? Jesus ministered in the streets and on mountainsides. there is nothing wrong with going to a place of worship as we do not worship it but Him who sits at the right hand of God. It is not the place of worship or the clergy system that is the only vehicle to Christ for is truly institutionalizes the church. Jesus told the women at the well that that day has come when you will not worship on your mountain nor In Jerusalem but the true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth

God bless

You may be a church, just not Christ's Church. You are your own personal church. This is the problem with Protestantism

Modern Protestants have privatised Christianity. It’s egocentric not Christocentric They have reduced it to a “personal relationship with Christ”. It’s about my personal interpretation of scripture. There is no room for the Mother of God in their reduced Christology. They have rejected the channels of grace that God gave us through the Sacraments. Many have rejected any Ecclesia, the rest have abandoned the Church that Christ founded in favour of man made ones. They call themselves Bible based but have rejected those Christ left to give true interpretation and teaching, and followed a myriad of false teachers. They have followed false prophets into the wilderness. Like magpies collecting shiny objects for their nests they pluck bit and pieces of scripture out of context, tack them together and call it exegesis..

[mclees8]

I gather with others and help bring Christ to the poor on Sunday and we worship under a tree. Are we not doing in His name and are we not the church just as much as in any church with a steeple? Jesus ministered in the streets and on mountainsides. there is nothing wrong with going to a place of worship as we do not worship it but Him who sits at the right hand of God. It is not the place of worship or the clergy system that is the only vehicle to Christ for is truly institutionalizes the church. Jesus told the women at the well that that day has come when you will not worship on your mountain nor In Jerusalem but the true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth

God bless

You may be a church, just not Christ's Church. You are your own personal church. This is the problem with Protestantism

Modern Protestants have privatised Christianity. It’s egocentric not Christocentric They have reduced it to a “personal relationship with Christ”. It’s about my personal interpretation of scripture. There is no room for the Mother of God in their reduced Christology. They have rejected the channels of grace that God gave us through the Sacraments. Many have rejected any Ecclesia, the rest have abandoned the Church that Christ founded in favour of man made ones. They call themselves Bible based but have rejected those Christ left to give true interpretation and teaching, and followed a myriad of false teachers. They have followed false prophets into the wilderness. Like magpies collecting shiny objects for their nests they pluck bit and pieces of scripture out of context, tack them together and call it exegesis..

You talk as one who has no understanding. The church is not a place or a thing. It is a people. A people who have come to Christ. That his sacrifice brings salvation to anyone who believes. You say salvation only comes through the church, which may be true because the church is all who believe , you have bought the idea that the institution of Rome is the church and one must be of it. For you, you must of the church of Rome to be saved. Look at the church when it was born on the Day of Pentecost.  They were not Roman Catholic but they were saved by their faith in Christ Paul and Silas went out and established church though out Asia and never taught they had to look to Rome for salvation.

They have beguiled you with false teaching.  Your idea about protestants being rouge churches that take all scripture out of context is straight from religous pride, arrogance, and, prejudice . The fact is the Lord does not see Catholic or Protestant Just those who love and keep his commandments. Are many mislead in this modern day thing we call Christianity. Thats a fact and its both sides of the river.
God bless

god bless.

[Amo]

John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

[mclees8]

John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Thanks Amo. I least there's some here that understands. 

[trifecta]

You talk as one who has no understanding. The church is not a place or a thing. It is a people.

This is a Protestant idea derived from the fact that Protestants were not in the actual church.  The church is both physical and spiritual, as is its head, our Lord Jesus Christ.  It is not just people, but the "pillar and foundation of the truth."   See my quote above.

They have beguiled you with false teaching.  Your idea about protestants being rouge churches that take all scripture out of context is straight from religous pride, arrogance, and, prejudice .

Or is it an honest disagreement with Protestants about their emphases?  Demonizing Rome doesn't prove anything.   The way I see Roman interpretation of Scripture is as good as the Protestants', if not better.   

The fact is the Lord does not see Catholic or Protestant Just those who love and keep his commandments. Are many mislead in this modern day thing we call Christianity. Thats a fact and its both sides of the river.
God bless

You have a point here.   I do think, though, we will also have to account for our faith and were we truly serving his church. 

[trifecta]

The church has always been one church.

Now, this we can agree on.

It is man who divides it attaches its names to it introduces its own beliefs, doctrines, traditions that were not of the apostles.

The question is whose traditions are "man's traditions" or the doctrines of men.  It is easy to say my church's traditions are of the Apostles and yours are of man.   But then you have to prove it.  Protestants traditions do not just come from the Bible but from  the Protestant fathers, 1500 years later:  The early church did not believe in sola scriptura (there was no compiled New Testament for a few hundred years), they did not believe in justification by faith alone (a Luther invention), and they certainly didn't believe the community (church) had nothing to do with salvation (this wasn't in their culture), and they believed in the real presence of communion (historical fact: note Justin Martyr, Ignatious, Ireanous and of course Paul in I Cor 10).

It was men who institutionalized it and separated the clergy and exalted it. It was man who gave tiles and rank to clergy and put on special garments as to be set apart to be called Rabbi Rabbi.    

This was true in Jewish society.   People with honor were treated accordingly.  It was true then and now.   Do we not give respect to the President?

This is not to say there are to be leaders whom we are to respect, but I believe the apostles did nothing to call attention to themselves as to be over anyone.

But the Apostles were "over" people.   Note too that the church established "overseers" (bishops).    There is nothing wrong with authority.

Even when certain people of a town tried to worship Paul and Silas they said no we are just men like you. for this they ran them out of town.

Worship is not the same thing as honor.   I honor many people but only worship God. I bet you do too.

Think now this is how it was long before we were made to see grand cathedrals and with popes cardinals and all this other exalted priest hood that institutionalizes the church as a thing, a hierarchy of religious piety

I understand that cathedral may not be your thing (I am American too), but they are also a way of honoring the Lord.

and A place we go to on Sunday. Yes we should gather to Worship, but we glorify him as one who is given not to an institution but to Him.

Protestants are always pitting God against the Church.   But we see in Ephesians the church is the Bride of Church.  Jesus loves the church!

I gather with others and help bring Christ to the poor on Sunday and we worship under a tree. Are we not doing in His name and are we not the church just as much as in any church with a steeple?

Nothing wrong with worshipping outside, and I am sure you are worshipping the same God that I do.  But note that when two or three or gathered in name, the Scripture doesn't call this the church, but that He is with them.  A family gathered in prayer includes God among them but it is not the church.  No one in the early church thought this, but, these days, many Protestants do.

Jesus ministered in the streets and on mountainsides. there is nothing wrong with going to a place of worship as we do not worship it but Him who sits at the right hand of God. It is not the place of worship or the clergy system that is the only vehicle to Christ for is truly institutionalizes the church. Jesus told the women at the well that that day has come when you will not worship on your mountain nor In Jerusalem but the true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth

God bless

To end on a good note, I can agree here.   Can you accept that some find more comfort worshipping in a cathedral than others?  

Thanks for reading.

[mclees8]

The church has always been one church.

Now, this we can agree on.

It is man who divides it attaches its names to it introduces its own beliefs, doctrines, traditions that were not of the apostles.

The question is whose traditions are "man's traditions" or the doctrines of men.  It is easy to say my church's traditions are of the Apostles and yours are of man.   But then you have to prove it.  Protestants traditions do not just come from the Bible but from  the Protestant fathers, 1500 years later:  The early church did not believe in sola scriptura (there was no compiled New Testament for a few hundred years), they did not believe in justification by faith alone (a Luther invention), and they certainly didn't believe the community (church) had nothing to do with salvation (this wasn't in their culture), and they believed in the real presence of communion (historical fact: note Justin Martyr, Ignatious, Ireanous and of course Paul in I Cor 10).

It was men who institutionalized it and separated the clergy and exalted it. It was man who gave tiles and rank to clergy and put on special garments as to be set apart to be called Rabbi Rabbi.    

This was true in Jewish society.   People with honor were treated accordingly.  It was true then and now.   Do we not give respect to the President?

This is not to say there are to be leaders whom we are to respect, but I believe the apostles did nothing to call attention to themselves as to be over anyone.

But the Apostles were "over" people.   Note too that the church established "overseers" (bishops).    There is nothing wrong with authority.

Even when certain people of a town tried to worship Paul and Silas they said no we are just men like you. for this they ran them out of town.

Worship is not the same thing as honor.   I honor many people but only worship God. I bet you do too.

Think now this is how it was long before we were made to see grand cathedrals and with popes cardinals and all this other exalted priest hood that institutionalizes the church as a thing, a hierarchy of religious piety

I understand that cathedral may not be your thing (I am American too), but they are also a way of honoring the Lord.

and A place we go to on Sunday. Yes we should gather to Worship, but we glorify him as one who is given not to an institution but to Him.

Protestants are always pitting God against the Church.   But we see in Ephesians the church is the Bride of Church.  Jesus loves the church!

I gather with others and help bring Christ to the poor on Sunday and we worship under a tree. Are we not doing in His name and are we not the church just as much as in any church with a steeple?

Nothing wrong with worshipping outside, and I am sure you are worshipping the same God that I do.  But note that when two or three or gathered in name, the Scripture doesn't call this the church, but that He is with them.  A family gathered in prayer includes God among them but it is not the church.  No one in the early church thought this, but, these days, many Protestants do.

Jesus ministered in the streets and on mountainsides. there is nothing wrong with going to a place of worship as we do not worship it but Him who sits at the right hand of God. It is not the place of worship or the clergy system that is the only vehicle to Christ for is truly institutionalizes the church. Jesus told the women at the well that that day has come when you will not worship on your mountain nor In Jerusalem but the true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth

God bless

To end on a good note, I can agree here.   Can you accept that some find more comfort worshipping in a cathedral than others?  

Thanks for reading.

Hello Tirifecta. thank for reading my post. I have read your comments and will respond directly.  Let me ask you a quick question.

Who has saved you? 
I will be back

The issue is not where we worship but who we worship and how do we worship him. What constitutes true worship? Do we channel true worship the the thing, the institution, the place we church. or is it through the spirit ? Is it a life of going to church or is a life given to Christ

God bless
God bless

[winsome]

The issue is not where we worship but who we worship and how do we worship him. What constitutes true worship? Do we channel true worship the the thing, the institution, the place we church. or is it through the spirit ? Is it a life of going to church or is a life given to Christ

God bless

No, It’s not the issue mclees.

Where and how we worship is important. Do we worship in our way or in God’s way?

Modern Protestants have privatised Christianity. It’s egocentric not Christcentric It reduces Christianity to a “personal relationship with Christ”. It’s about “my personal interpretation of scripture”. Salvation is just something personal not something we strive for in conjunction with others.

Hand in hand with this egocentric Christianity is a rejection of Ecclesia, the notion that we live out our Christian life within a Church, that the Church is where we find salvation. The body of Christ is regarded as some vague spiritual entity rather than something concretely visible with a structure and life to which we need to be visibly joined. In Ephesians 1:23 Paul calls the Church “the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way”. Why do some Christians reject the “fullness of the one who fills all things” and do it their way instead of God’s way? It is all part of a Satan’s big deception.

The big deception started in the 16th century when “Reformers” broke away from Christ’s Church and started their own. They listened to the same lie that Satan whispered into Eve’s ear in the Garden of Eden – be your own god, you decide what’s right and wrong; you decide how you want to worship God. So they started their own churches, thousands of them, from the bigger congregations like Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvanists, Methodists, Baptists, Pentecostals, SDAs, Plymouth Brethren, Anabaptist, etc, (and all the sub divisions within them) to the one-off one pastor church.

But it’s primarily through his sacraments, administered by his Church, that Christ pours out his grace. In Baptism we come into the very life of Christ; in the Eucharist we are fed his body and blood; in Reconciliation we are reconciled to God and to his Church after being estranged through sin. But so many modern Protestants reject all this.

[mclees8]

The issue is not where we worship but who we worship and how do we worship him. What constitutes true worship? Do we channel true worship the the thing, the institution, the place we church. or is it through the spirit ? Is it a life of going to church or is a life given to Christ

God bless

No, It’s not the issue mclees.

Where and how we worship is important. Do we worship in our way or in God’s way?

Modern Protestants have privatised Christianity. It’s egocentric not Christcentric It reduces Christianity to a “personal relationship with Christ”. It’s about “my personal interpretation of scripture”. Salvation is just something personal not something we strive for in conjunction with others.

Hand in hand with this egocentric Christianity is a rejection of Ecclesia, the notion that we live out our Christian life within a Church, that the Church is where we find salvation. The body of Christ is regarded as some vague spiritual entity rather than something concretely visible with a structure and life to which we need to be visibly joined. In Ephesians 1:23 Paul calls the Church “the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way”. Why do some Christians reject the “fullness of the one who fills all things” and do it their way instead of God’s way? It is all part of a Satan’s big deception.

The big deception started in the 16th century when “Reformers” broke away from Christ’s Church and started their own. They listened to the same lie that Satan whispered into Eve’s ear in the Garden of Eden – be your own god, you decide what’s right and wrong; you decide how you want to worship God. So they started their own churches, thousands of them, from the bigger congregations like Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvanists, Methodists, Baptists, Pentecostals, SDAs, Plymouth Brethren, Anabaptist, etc, (and all the sub divisions within them) to the one-off one pastor church.

But it’s primarily through his sacraments, administered by his Church, that Christ pours out his grace. In Baptism we come into the very life of Christ; in the Eucharist we are fed his body and blood; in Reconciliation we are reconciled to God and to his Church after being estranged through sin. But so many modern Protestants reject all this.

It is you that has been deceived.

So let me ask you then Who saved you. ? Listen I don't believe in denominationalism. but I do believe that salvation is first and formemost personal and then it is corporate.
I am not saved by the institution. You have an identity problem. the church is not the quaint place on the corner or the giant cathedral we go to every Sunday. It is not just a magisterium  of priestly order. They have misappropreated scripture to hold you in bondage to it. The church is first a people of faith in Christ the papacy  made it an order of priests that is in fashioned after  the Old Testament priesthood.

Listen we listen to leaders on as they have listened to Christ They must not be carnal but men who walk in the spirit  The place we worship is first in the spirit. Worship is a life the is given to Christ. worship is when we come together to lift him up in praise whether you are in a building, a house or under a tree. you are right there is not salvation out side of the church. but the church is not just an institution that goes through all the outward motions of being  religious. it is not a building or a place or an order but a people.which is the body of Christ scripture is clear on this    Now you will say my comment s are to sweeping or I have no evidence. If this is what you want you won't get any.

I will post on what Paul  says a leader or an elder is. First they must be led of the Spirit just as the apostles were.

I will be back.
God bless

God bless