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Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #35 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 11:52:58 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!

Actually most of the basic teachings of the RC church arent Biblical, but have been thought up by past members/leaders of the RC church. You think thats ok, because you think your church is infallible,  but if they are not in the Bible or are contrary to what the Bible says then surely we are to ignore them.

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #35 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 11:52:58 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #36 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 12:06:23 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!


 I prefer to stick to the teaching from the word of God and not a fallible church. Anything not in there, should be discounted.

Show me where it says that if something is not in the Bible, it should be discounted. Show me where in the Bible does the Holy Spirit state the canon of scripture.

Therein lies the core problem with the house of cards built in the reformation.  Without an infallible Church, you don't even know what books make up the word of God with absolute certainty.  And without absolute certainty you have no idea whether you are in orthodoxy or apostasy.  Any one of the books, or even all of them, in this library of books called the Bible, might be not inspired at all; it took a Church, a group of people with authority and a guarantee of infallibility, to say with absolute certainty that "this book is inspired" and "this book is not".

We also don't listen to a fallible church.  We listen to an infallible church, one that you reject, to your own detriment.

There is no such thing as an infallible church or an infallible person, which is why we need to hear the word of an infallible God and check everything against what He says.

The statement that you made here is fallible, isn't it?  So in fact there may be an infallible church or an infallible person.  And in fact there has to be for the word of God to be infallible.

Of course, in your mind the infallibility of any person of Church is somehow a natural infallibility rather than a divinely granted infallibility.  Surely you believe that God could be the cause of a person or church to be infallible?  Or do you believe that God is incapable of that?

God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::

Of course God is capable of making sure what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  And man is also capable of making sure that the things he didn't want in the Bible is not there, and that is exactly what the Protestant revolutionaries did.

God was also capable of making the Bible fall from the sky, but He did not.  Rather, He used the Church.
God was also capable of writing the Bible himself with his own human hands, but He did not.  Rather He used the Church.
God was also capable of preserving the autographs (the original copies of the Bible) but He did not. Rather, He used the Church to preserve the Gospel precisely.
God was also capable of ensuring that human languages would make it possible to exactly and precisely translate the words of scripture into any language but He did not. Rather, He used the Church which He grew and spread to all countries, speaking all languages, to preach His word unadulterated.
God was also capable of ensuring that human copyists would exactly and without error copy the originals so as to preserver exactly the words of the autographs, but he did not.  Rather, he ensured the Truth would remain despite the introduction of imperfections in the text, and He did so through His Church, which He founded.

God is certainly capable of anything.  But the fact is that God's chosen method to preserve the gospel perfectly was in the hearts of men and through preaching in union with "what you heard from the beginning", not through the distribution of literature for people to "fallibly" (your words) interpret with complete disregard with what was preached from the beginning and maintained through the Church which God not only instituted but also sustains and protects through His power, an act of God which is rightly makes the Church "infallible".

So I reiterate, in denying that the Church is infallible or that individuals are infallible is akin to denying that scripture is inerrant or that the Canon of scripture can be known.

  Interesting that so many believers seem to be able to follow God,  grow in Him, learn, mature, Love Him and do His work without ever stepping into a RCatholic church.

Despite a perfectly logical argument presented, all you have to reply with is opinion. 

Interesting how so many people on this forum are anything but mature, especially ones who attack the Catholic faith.

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #36 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 12:06:23 »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #37 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 22:05:48 »
God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::

Of course God is capable of making sure what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  And man is also capable of making sure that the things he didn't want in the Bible is not there, and that is exactly what the Protestant revolutionaries did.

God was also capable of making the Bible fall from the sky, but He did not.  Rather, He used the Church.
God was also capable of writing the Bible himself with his own human hands, but He did not.  Rather He used the Church.
God was also capable of preserving the autographs (the original copies of the Bible) but He did not. Rather, He used the Church to preserve the Gospel precisely.
God was also capable of ensuring that human languages would make it possible to exactly and precisely translate the words of scripture into any language but He did not. Rather, He used the Church which He grew and spread to all countries, speaking all languages, to preach His word unadulterated.
God was also capable of ensuring that human copyists would exactly and without error copy the originals so as to preserver exactly the words of the autographs, but he did not.  Rather, he ensured the Truth would remain despite the introduction of imperfections in the text, and He did so through His Church, which He founded.

God is certainly capable of anything.  But the fact is that God's chosen method to preserve the gospel perfectly was in the hearts of men and through preaching in union with "what you heard from the beginning", not through the distribution of literature for people to "fallibly" (your words) interpret with complete disregard with what was preached from the beginning and maintained through the Church which God not only instituted but also sustains and protects through His power, an act of God which is rightly makes the Church "infallible".

So I reiterate, in denying that the Church is infallible or that individuals are infallible is akin to denying that scripture is inerrant or that the Canon of scripture can be known.
nice list you made up... or did you cut/paste from a CC site?  Catholics might think God used the CC for those things,  but He didn't.  I believe God protected His word inspite of the CC.  No denying the inerrancy of scripture - God is infallible.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #38 on: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 10:05:01 »
God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::

Of course God is capable of making sure what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  And man is also capable of making sure that the things he didn't want in the Bible is not there, and that is exactly what the Protestant revolutionaries did.

God was also capable of making the Bible fall from the sky, but He did not.  Rather, He used the Church.
God was also capable of writing the Bible himself with his own human hands, but He did not.  Rather He used the Church.
God was also capable of preserving the autographs (the original copies of the Bible) but He did not. Rather, He used the Church to preserve the Gospel precisely.
God was also capable of ensuring that human languages would make it possible to exactly and precisely translate the words of scripture into any language but He did not. Rather, He used the Church which He grew and spread to all countries, speaking all languages, to preach His word unadulterated.
God was also capable of ensuring that human copyists would exactly and without error copy the originals so as to preserver exactly the words of the autographs, but he did not.  Rather, he ensured the Truth would remain despite the introduction of imperfections in the text, and He did so through His Church, which He founded.

God is certainly capable of anything.  But the fact is that God's chosen method to preserve the gospel perfectly was in the hearts of men and through preaching in union with "what you heard from the beginning", not through the distribution of literature for people to "fallibly" (your words) interpret with complete disregard with what was preached from the beginning and maintained through the Church which God not only instituted but also sustains and protects through His power, an act of God which is rightly makes the Church "infallible".

So I reiterate, in denying that the Church is infallible or that individuals are infallible is akin to denying that scripture is inerrant or that the Canon of scripture can be known.
nice list you made up... or did you cut/paste from a CC site?

You must be the kind of "mature" believer that chosenone is speaking of.  You can't address the substance of an argument, so you try to attack the person presenting the argument. 

Catholics might think God used the CC for those things,  but He didn't.

Regardless of whether or not you call the men whom God worked through part of the Catholic Church, the fact remains that actually God did work through men, and those men therefore, by the power of God, were infallible. That is, if one actually understands what infallible means.

To be infallible is a charism of the Holy Spirit that ensures that truth with prevail on Earth.  If you think that a book of scripture is inspired and inerrant, then by the definition of infallible, you have no choice to admit that the author of that book, whether it be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, or whomever, is infallible, because at least for that one act of writing that book, his act was protected by the Holy Spirit.

Those men I just listed were part of the Church, which is the people of God, and thus it was absolutely necessary for infallibility to come into play for the Bible to be inspired in the first place.

Likewise it is also necessary to have another infallible act to define the canon of scripture, because while a book might itself be inspired and inerrant, the men deciding if that book is inspired and inerrant are by nature very prone to error.  They could easily have said that an inerrant, inspired book was not canonical while a errant, non-inspired book was canonical.  UNLESS they were infallible: that is, unless the Holy Spirit protected their decree.  Only then do we know for sure that the Canon of scripture contains ALL the inspired books and ONLY the inspired books.

In the absence of these infallible persons, we would never know whether the canon is correct and we may be using a Bible that is part inspired and part not inspired while calling the whole thing inspired.

« Last Edit: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 10:57:35 by Catholica »

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #38 on: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 10:05:01 »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #39 on: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 10:46:24 »
So I reiterate, in denying that the Church is infallible or that individuals are infallible is akin to denying that scripture is inerrant or that the Canon of scripture can be known.
nice list you made up... or did you cut/paste from a CC site?

You must be the kind of "mature" believer that chosenone is speaking of.  You can't address the substance of an argument, so you try to attack the person presenting the argument. 
Such an interesting reply from someone who only quoted part of 1 line from a 4 line post and then states that the substance of the argument wasn't addressed...

You well know that Catholics cut/paste things from the CCC and other Catholic sites/documents all of the time.  You do it on a regular basis.


Catholics might think God used the CC for those things,  but He didn't.

Actually, He did.  It is a fact of history that you cannot deny and remain an honest person.
I do agree that Catholics thinking that God has used the CC for those things is a fact of history.  That doesn't mean that God actually did.

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #39 on: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 10:46:24 »



Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #40 on: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 10:49:16 »
Skeeter,

Regardless of whether or not you call the men whom God worked through part of the Catholic Church, the fact remains that actually God did work through men, and those men therefore, by the power of God, were infallible. That is, if one actually understands what infallible means.

To be infallible is a charism of the Holy Spirit that ensures that truth with prevail on Earth.  If you think that a book of scripture is inspired and inerrant, then by the definition of infallible, you have no choice to admit that the author of that book, whether it be Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, or whomever, is infallible, because at least for that one act of writing that book, his act was protected by the Holy Spirit.

Those men I just listed were part of the Church, which is the people of God, and thus it was absolutely necessary for infallibility to come into play for the Bible to be inspired in the first place.

Likewise it is also necessary to have another infallible act to define the canon of scripture, because while a book might itself be inspired and inerrant, the men deciding if that book is inspired and inerrant are by nature very prone to error.  They could easily have said that an inerrant, inspired book was not canonical while a errant, non-inspired book was canonical.  UNLESS they were infallible: that is, unless the Holy Spirit protected their decree.  Only then do we know for sure that the Canon of scripture contains ALL the inspired books and ONLY the inspired books.

In the absence of these infallible persons, we would never know whether the canon is correct and we may be using a Bible that is part inspired and part not inspired while calling the whole thing inspired.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 10:56:44 by Catholica »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #41 on: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 10:52:29 »
So I reiterate, in denying that the Church is infallible or that individuals are infallible is akin to denying that scripture is inerrant or that the Canon of scripture can be known.
nice list you made up... or did you cut/paste from a CC site?

You must be the kind of "mature" believer that chosenone is speaking of.  You can't address the substance of an argument, so you try to attack the person presenting the argument. 
Such an interesting reply from someone who only quoted part of 1 line from a 4 line post and then states that the substance of the argument wasn't addressed...

Opinions are not an argument, and you are diverting the conversation again.

You well know that Catholics cut/paste things from the CCC and other Catholic sites/documents all of the time.  You do it on a regular basis.

So what?  Does it matter where the argument comes from?  Why are you avoiding it?  Can't you use your own mind to think about things, or are you hoping that the argument was posted elsewhere so that someone else can do your thinking for you?

Catholics might think God used the CC for those things,  but He didn't.

Actually, He did.  It is a fact of history that you cannot deny and remain an honest person.
I do agree that Catholics thinking that God has used the CC for those things is a fact of history.  That doesn't mean that God actually did.

See my previous post.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #42 on: Sat Jan 10, 2015 - 15:29:14 »
Such an interesting reply from someone who only quoted part of 1 line from a 4 line post and then states that the substance of the argument wasn't addressed...

Opinions are not an argument, and you are diverting the conversation again.

You well know that Catholics cut/paste things from the CCC and other Catholic sites/documents all of the time.  You do it on a regular basis. 

So what?  Does it matter where the argument comes from?  Why are you avoiding it?
you're the one who does the cut/paste stuff, not me.  I don't think I've ever done that here.
What am I avoiding?  I don't do much of that here either. 

Remember in the future that opinions aren't an argument - since you always use opinions, yours or those of the RCC.

Can't you use your own mind to think about things, or are you hoping that the argument was posted elsewhere so that someone else can do your thinking for you?
me? ha!  I answered this above regarding opinion vs argument and cut/paste.


Offline mclees8

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #43 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 09:05:00 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #44 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 09:09:40 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

Offline mclees8

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #45 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 09:22:48 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #46 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 10:43:50 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 10:51:54 by Catholica »

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #47 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:08:05 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


Why am I not surprised. Was it not already stated. 90 % would not take the challenge
What other foundation could be more solid Then Christ and His word and praying for more knowledge of Him  Is it not your decision.

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #48 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:19:37 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


Why am I not surprised. Was it not already stated. 90 % would not take the challenge
What other foundation could be more solid Then Christ and His word and praying for more knowledge of Him  Is it not your decision.

But I am taking the challenge.  I just choose to also obey what the apostle John wrote in his 2nd epistle:

2 John 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

The Catholic faith is what Christianity has heard from the beginning, and that is what I am walking in.

Tell me Mike, do you allow yourself the option to believe that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church?  Or have you closed your heart to that possibility?  If so then are you actually taking your own challenge?
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:22:04 by Catholica »

Offline mclees8

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #49 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:31:02 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


Why am I not surprised. Was it not already stated. 90 % would not take the challenge
What other foundation could be more solid Then Christ and His word and praying for more knowledge of Him  Is it not your decision.

But I am taking the challenge.  I just choose to also obey what the apostle John wrote in his 2nd epistle:

2 John 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

The Catholic faith is what Christianity has heard from the beginning, and that is what I am walking in.

Tell me Mike, do you allow yourself the option to believe that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church?  Or have you closed your heart to that possibility?  If so then are you actually taking your own challenge?

I took the challenge a long time ago and am still not done. You say you took the challenge but not as stated. Let look again.

Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #50 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:38:03 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


 The Bible says that all of Gods children are saints. 

Offline mclees8

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #51 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:41:12 »
Tell me Mike, do you allow yourself the option to believe that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church?

God is not limited. If he can use a donkey to speak he can use your church order or any church order to preserve his word
It is not about your church it is about God. You statement is of pride and arrogance.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:46:17 by mclees8 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #52 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:49:34 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


Why am I not surprised. Was it not already stated. 90 % would not take the challenge
What other foundation could be more solid Then Christ and His word and praying for more knowledge of Him  Is it not your decision.

But I am taking the challenge.  I just choose to also obey what the apostle John wrote in his 2nd epistle:

2 John 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

The Catholic faith is what Christianity has heard from the beginning, and that is what I am walking in.

Tell me Mike, do you allow yourself the option to believe that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church?  Or have you closed your heart to that possibility?  If so then are you actually taking your own challenge?

I took the challenge a long time ago and am still not done. You say you took the challenge but not as stated. Let look again.

Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word

Ok, my first challenge then is to find an example of someone in the Bible who did the challenge.  If not, then the challenge itself is unbiblical.  Can you point out someone who did, since you know the scriptures so well?

All I can think of off hand is Jesus telling the apostles to go forth and preach (Matthew 28:19), but that would mean that he expects people to listen to men first to receive the gospel.  And also the day of Pentecost, but then again those people were converted through the words of the man Peter, whom the Holy Spirit worked through.  I can't think of anyone in the Bible doing what you suggest.  If there isn't anyone, then that should be the first thing that we should abandon, because all evidence in the Bible shows the expectation that people will receive their knowledge of the Truth first through preaching, not first through Bible study.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #53 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:53:00 »
Tell me Mike, do you allow yourself the option to believe that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church?

God is not limited. If he can use a donkey to speak he can use your church order or any church order to preserve his word
It is not about your church it is about God. You statement is of pride and arrogance.


It's not a statement, Mike, it's a question.  So you do allow yourself the option that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church? I'm not talking about the Bible; I'm talking about the actually true understanding of the Bible, which is the true Gospel.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #54 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 11:58:32 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


 The Bible says that all of Gods children are saints.

That is true, but not all the saints are like Jesus.  Ted Bundy became a "saint" you know. 

I think you know who I am talking about though.  I am talking about the canonized "Saints".  Not all of God's children canonized "Saints" (capital S).  Canonized Saints are our best examples of those people whom have become most like Jesus, and they did it by the power of God through the Catholic Church.

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, it's probably best to just keep any peanut gallery comments to yourself.

Offline mclees8

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #55 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:10:22 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


 The Bible says that all of Gods children are saints.

That is true, but not all the saints are like Jesus.  Ted Bundy became a "saint" you know. 

I think you know who I am talking about though.  I am talking about the canonized "Saints".  Not all of God's children canonized "Saints" (capital S).  Canonized Saints are our best examples of those people whom have become most like Jesus, and they did it by the power of God through the Catholic Church.

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, it's probably best to just keep any peanut gallery comments to yourself.

But what about yourself Cath. You think you will ever be a cannon saint. You agreed with chosen and then deminsh what he said  by an unchrist like insult. 

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #56 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:17:53 »
Your question is dragging us off topic.  Please answer my on-topic questions and challenge for you Mike.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #57 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:24:37 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


 The Bible says that all of Gods children are saints.

That is true, but not all the saints are like Jesus.  Ted Bundy became a "saint" you know. 

I think you know who I am talking about though.  I am talking about the canonized "Saints".  Not all of God's children canonized "Saints" (capital S).  Canonized Saints are our best examples of those people whom have become most like Jesus, and they did it by the power of God through the Catholic Church.

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, it's probably best to just keep any peanut gallery comments to yourself.

Wow and you accuse others of rudeness. ::eek:: ::eek:: ::eek::  The canonisation of 'saints' is entirely unbiblical,  and totally against Gods teaching that he has no favourites. I actually know people myself who are far more godly than the men and women the RCatholic church have decided should be canonised.

Offline mclees8

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #58 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:27:25 »
Tell me Mike, do you allow yourself the option to believe that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church?

God is not limited. If he can use a donkey to speak he can use your church order or any church order to preserve his word
It is not about your church it is about God. You statement is of pride and arrogance.


It's not a statement, Mike, it's a question.  So you do allow yourself the option that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church? I'm not talking about the Bible; I'm talking about the actually true understanding of the Bible, which is the true Gospel.

Im saying it didn't matter who He used to preserved his word or His gospel. It does matter though who you choose to trust more.  The question here is how much you love Gods word and hunger for greater understanding or will you stand pat putting trust in men More than Christ's and Gospel and word. You have already made it plain in whom you will trust more. It is you alone then who has made your own  decision

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #59 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:37:08 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


 The Bible says that all of Gods children are saints.

That is true, but not all the saints are like Jesus.  Ted Bundy became a "saint" you know. 

I think you know who I am talking about though.  I am talking about the canonized "Saints".  Not all of God's children canonized "Saints" (capital S).  Canonized Saints are our best examples of those people whom have become most like Jesus, and they did it by the power of God through the Catholic Church.

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, it's probably best to just keep any peanut gallery comments to yourself.

Wow and you accuse others of rudeness. ::eek:: ::eek:: ::eek:: 

Good moderators try to keep threads on topic rather than diverting the conversation with non-pertinent factoids as your "saints" comment was.

The canonisation of 'saints' is entirely unbiblical,  and totally against Gods teaching that he has no favourites.

The Canonization of saints has nothing to do with someone being "God's favorite".  There are many saints whose lives are called out in the Bible as being exemplary.  Canonized saints are saints whose lives were Christ-like and exemplary, and whom we know to be alive in heaven.  You believe that all that claimed Christ as Lord and Savior go right to heaven when they die.  Thus the only part you could really argue with is that you oppose us recognizing their lives as exemplary.  But calling out lives as exemplary is entirely biblical.  Read Hebrews 11.

" I actually know people myself who are far more godly than the men and women the RCatholic church have decided should be canonised.

Examples please.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #60 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:42:29 »
Tell me Mike, do you allow yourself the option to believe that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church?

God is not limited. If he can use a donkey to speak he can use your church order or any church order to preserve his word
It is not about your church it is about God. You statement is of pride and arrogance.


It's not a statement, Mike, it's a question.  So you do allow yourself the option that God actually did preserve the Gospel through the Catholic Church? I'm not talking about the Bible; I'm talking about the actually true understanding of the Bible, which is the true Gospel.

Im saying it didn't matter who He used to preserved his word or His gospel. It does matter though who you choose to trust more.  The question here is how much you love Gods word and hunger for greater understanding or will you stand pat putting trust in men More than Christ's and Gospel and word. You have already made it plain in whom you will trust more. It is you alone then who has made your own  decision

I'm asking you about you Mike, and your challenge. 

Let's say that you hunger for more understanding but find that the Catholic faith is what you find to be the most perfect understanding.  Would it be wrong then for you to adhere to that faith?  Or are we not allowed to find a "finish line" for our challenge?

I could study the Bible forever and ever through the lens of the Catholic faith, and just keep finding more and more truth.  And I am not leaning on my own understanding to do it.

You have yet to show me an example from the Bible that someone in the Bible took your challenge.  If you cannot, then the challenge demands that I end the challenge.  It demands that you end the challenge as well.

Offline mclees8

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #61 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:43:00 »
Cath you can no loner deny  knowledge of the challenge. you have read it  and you have also denied it.  How shall you stand in that day

The challenge was not put to just you or me and I have stated I took it long ago and not yet done. You chose to answer and challenge, but it was not personal to you until you entered into the challenge to challenge it.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:49:44 by mclees8 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #62 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:49:39 »
Cath you can no loner deny  knowledge of the challenge. you have read it  and you have also denied it.  How shall you stand in that day

Where in the Bible does it say what happened to a man who learned of the challenge but denied that it was biblical?  What did God say when the man claimed that there was no one in the Bible who took the challenge, and so told God such at his judgment?

Your challenge is self-refuting, Mike.

You can no longer deny knowledge of the Catholic faith.  It has been proclaimed to you and you have also denied it.  How shall you stand in that day
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:52:13 by Catholica »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #63 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:50:09 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


 The Bible says that all of Gods children are saints.

That is true, but not all the saints are like Jesus.  Ted Bundy became a "saint" you know. 

I think you know who I am talking about though.  I am talking about the canonized "Saints".  Not all of God's children canonized "Saints" (capital S).  Canonized Saints are our best examples of those people whom have become most like Jesus, and they did it by the power of God through the Catholic Church.

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, it's probably best to just keep any peanut gallery comments to yourself.

Wow and you accuse others of rudeness. ::eek:: ::eek:: ::eek:: 

Good moderators try to keep threads on topic rather than diverting the conversation with non-pertinent factoids as your "saints" comment was.

The canonisation of 'saints' is entirely unbiblical,  and totally against Gods teaching that he has no favourites.

The Canonization of saints has nothing to do with someone being "God's favorite".  There are many saints whose lives are called out in the Bible as being exemplary.  Canonized saints are saints whose lives were Christ-like and exemplary, and whom we know to be alive in heaven.  You believe that all that claimed Christ as Lord and Savior go right to heaven when they die.  Thus the only part you could really argue with is that you oppose us recognizing their lives as exemplary.  But calling out lives as exemplary is entirely biblical.  Read Hebrews 11.

" I actually know people myself who are far more godly than the men and women the RCatholic church have decided should be canonised.

Examples please.


 I am not gong to name people on line, they are personal friends of mine.  ::eek::

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #64 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:53:49 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

Thanks for your post.  Do you think if I do this I will end up more like you?

The Lord does not want you to be like me, but to be more like Him.

Excelllent.  In that case I will stick with the tried and true method of living and practicing the Catholic faith which has made so many saints so very like Jesus.  To know Christ more it helps both to pray and to have a firm foundation in the truth.  Through prayer and knowing the Truth is how I am working out my salvation.


 The Bible says that all of Gods children are saints.

That is true, but not all the saints are like Jesus.  Ted Bundy became a "saint" you know. 

I think you know who I am talking about though.  I am talking about the canonized "Saints".  Not all of God's children canonized "Saints" (capital S).  Canonized Saints are our best examples of those people whom have become most like Jesus, and they did it by the power of God through the Catholic Church.

If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, it's probably best to just keep any peanut gallery comments to yourself.

Wow and you accuse others of rudeness. ::eek:: ::eek:: ::eek:: 

Good moderators try to keep threads on topic rather than diverting the conversation with non-pertinent factoids as your "saints" comment was.

The canonisation of 'saints' is entirely unbiblical,  and totally against Gods teaching that he has no favourites.

The Canonization of saints has nothing to do with someone being "God's favorite".  There are many saints whose lives are called out in the Bible as being exemplary.  Canonized saints are saints whose lives were Christ-like and exemplary, and whom we know to be alive in heaven.  You believe that all that claimed Christ as Lord and Savior go right to heaven when they die.  Thus the only part you could really argue with is that you oppose us recognizing their lives as exemplary.  But calling out lives as exemplary is entirely biblical.  Read Hebrews 11.

" I actually know people myself who are far more godly than the men and women the RCatholic church have decided should be canonised.

Examples please.


 I am not gong to name people on line, they are personal friends of mine.  ::eek::

You don't have to name names, just tell us about them.  Show us how they are more holy than Canonized Saints.

Offline mclees8

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #65 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 12:59:13 »
Cath you can no loner deny  knowledge of the challenge. you have read it  and you have also denied it.  How shall you stand in that day

Where in the Bible does it say what happened to a man who learned of the challenge but denied that it was biblical?  What did God say when the man claimed that there was no one in the Bible who took the challenge, and so told God such at his judgment?

Your challenge is self-refuting, Mike.

You can no longer deny knowledge of the Catholic faith.  It has been proclaimed to you and you have also denied it.  How shall you stand in that day

Is it evil then of me to challenge one to know Him more by praying for more understand of His word so to read it? How do you say I shall stand then?. If you then say no to it because you trust men more How then shall you stand?
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 13:01:55 by mclees8 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #66 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 13:37:17 »
Cath you can no loner deny  knowledge of the challenge. you have read it  and you have also denied it.  How shall you stand in that day

Where in the Bible does it say what happened to a man who learned of the challenge but denied that it was biblical?  What did God say when the man claimed that there was no one in the Bible who took the challenge, and so told God such at his judgment?

Your challenge is self-refuting, Mike.

You can no longer deny knowledge of the Catholic faith.  It has been proclaimed to you and you have also denied it.  How shall you stand in that day

Is it evil then of me to challenge one to know Him more by praying for more understand of His word so to read it?

No.  But it IS evil of you to try to draw someone away from the true faith.  Very evil.  You do that not by encouraging people to read the Bible, but rather by telling them to remove themselves from their Catholic understanding thereof.

How do you say I shall stand then?.

If you insist on knowing, then I will send you a private message. Just let me know if you want it and I will CC the moderators your request.

If you then say no to it because you trust men more How then shall you stand?

I trust the men in the Church that Jesus founded more than I trust the man Mike Clees, and I do so with a clear conscience.

Besides, I do take the challenge, using scripture to know Jesus better.  I just don't do the dumb thing of throwing out what Jesus taught as proclaimed by the Catholic Church to do it.  I call it my "short cut to deeper knowledge of Jesus".
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 15:44:08 by Catholica »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #67 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 13:53:49 »
The  longer that I have been a Christian, the more I realise that my faith is nothing to do with any particular church or denomination but about Jesus and following Him. I am pleased to have friends and family who belong to several different churches and denominations and I love that. Anyone who claims that theirs is the only true church is way off the mark and greatly deceived.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #68 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 14:11:49 »
The  longer that I have been a Christian, the more I realise that my faith is nothing to do with any particular church or denomination but about Jesus and following Him. I am pleased to have friends and family who belong to several different churches and denominations and I love that. Anyone who claims that theirs is the only true church is way off the mark and greatly deceived.

Of course, because there is no absolute truth in your land, or if there is it doesn't matter because people can believe whatever they want (unless it is the Catholic faith, of course) and they are just fine.  You "love that" division, as long as we can be nice to each other and not claim that anyone has only truth.

I feel like I have just described the secular "religion" called "tolerance".  The only people that "tolerance religion" is intolerant of is people who insist on dealing in absolutes.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #69 on: Mon Jan 12, 2015 - 15:45:14 »
Here is a challenge. By this one can know truth and have understanding about their faith and salvation. For this one must want to know, and not just presume they know. Take time to step out of the arena of Catholic or protestant to meet with Christ in the spirit. Then study the scriptures asking Jesus to give more knowledge and understanding of His word. These who are hungry for it will follow this lesson for what is more important than ones personal salvation. This admonition is as Paul who said "let everyone work out His own salvation with fear and trembling". Both Catholics and Protestants honor Paul to be a true apostle having wisdom concerning saving faith.  About 90% will not do it therefore a testimony they  do not desire to know Christ more, but rather trust in men. The other 10% reflect hunger for Christ and not satisfied but want to know more about what is the truth concerning their own understanding.  Proverbs 3: 5,6

 " trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding but in all thine ways trust in Him and He shall direct thy path.

The 10% are His beloved

ah... this is EXACTLY what I did 35 or so yrs ago!  I had no idea about 'personal salvation'.  My prayer was to know whatever was HIS truth!  He answered my prayer and adopted me.

 

     
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