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Offline MrGroceries

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Your Most Important Decision
« on: Fri Jan 02, 2015 - 05:24:24 »
I have left this forum
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 20:30:37 by MrGroceries »

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Your Most Important Decision
« on: Fri Jan 02, 2015 - 05:24:24 »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 20:38:38 »
you consider those who do not believe in the need to accept Jesus Christ as the Savior to be children of God?

How do you believe one gets adopted into the family of God?

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 20:38:38 »

Offline MrGroceries

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #2 on: Sun Jan 04, 2015 - 16:51:34 »
yes - I think every soul God created He considers His child. I think to be in the family of God one must be in the state of grace.

Offline kensington

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 05, 2015 - 01:25:15 »
No, everyone is not the family of God.  Everyone is God's creation, and offered the chance to be His family, but unless they accept Jesus as Savior, they are not.

We are all God's creation, and He loves us.  But, only... "Whosoever will" is His family.

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 05, 2015 - 01:25:15 »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #4 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 02:31:46 »
yes - I think every soul God created He considers His child. I think to be in the family of God one must be in the state of grace.

How does one get to 'be in the state of grace'?

Is anyone not  in the state of grace?

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #4 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 02:31:46 »



Offline MrGroceries

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #5 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 04:03:17 »
I really find your question surprising given this is a Christian forum. But, I will answer it. A Catholic needs to confess their sins to a priest - other Christians to Jesus - feel sorrow, ask for forgiveness and tell the priest or Jesus they will try to do better. When a Catholic/Christian allows sin to accumulate in their soul there is a point, that only God knows, that He considers them no longer in the state of grace. Being in the state of grace means that you are in "good standing" with God and can therefore receive His graces into your life. Catholics are given a penance by the priest(reparation) - performing some good work for their fellow man or perhaps praying for others, and if they don't then they accumulate a debt to God - and then this debt must be satisfied in purgatory  - but I don't think Christians believe in purgatory. I always have - and on top of that God had a friend of mine who died talk to me - he was in purgatory - in great distress - begging me to pray for him to help satisfy God's justice.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 04:18:58 »
I really find your question surprising given this is a Christian forum. But, I will answer it. A Catholic needs to confess their sins to a priest - other Christians to Jesus - feel sorrow, ask for forgiveness and tell the priest or Jesus they will try to do better. When a Catholic/Christian allows sin to accumulate in their soul there is a point, that only God knows, that He considers them no longer in the state of grace. Being in the state of grace means that you are in "good standing" with God and can therefore receive His graces into your life. Catholics are given a penance by the priest(reparation) - performing some good work for their fellow man or perhaps praying for others, and if they don't then they accumulate a debt to God - and then this debt must be satisfied in purgatory  - but I don't think Christians believe in purgatory. I always have - and on top of that God had a friend of mine who died talk to me - he was in purgatory - in great distress - begging me to pray for him to help satisfy God's justice.

There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 04:21:29 by chosenone »

Offline MrGroceries

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #7 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 04:31:46 »
I understand that you and other Christians do not believe in all of what Catholics believe - and I respect others' beliefs. I think all of us need to stick with stating what we believe to be true and not stating our beliefs as if they are true because there is no way you or I or anyone knows for sure. Also, no one should speak in a way that is saying "I am the perfect depository of God's truth".

Interpretation of scripture is the reason why there are so many Christian churches, all with somewhat different beliefs. So, a Catholic or Christian, I think, should not be telling others that their beliefs are wrong. We all need to learn to accept and respect others beliefs. I state my own and leave it at that. Satan loves it when he can create friction between us and I never fall for it. So, I have said all I care to - enjoy your day/evening in our Lords presence!!

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #8 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 11:26:03 »
I for one am not evaluating my beliefs in light of "new thoughts concerning morality". What I thought of before as sinful behavior is still sinful behavior despite the protestations of those who now accept certain things as normal human activity.. Sin is still sin and God's thoughts on the matter haven't changed and the Catholic Church's teachings haven't changed either.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #9 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 11:29:34 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 11:34:29 by Ladonia »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #10 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 11:38:54 »
Mr. Groceries said : "Interpretation of scripture is the reason why there are so many Christian churches, all with somewhat different beliefs. So, a Catholic or Christian, I think, should not be telling others that their beliefs are wrong. We all need to learn to accept and respect others beliefs. I state my own and leave it at that. Satan loves it when he can create friction between us and I never fall for it. So, I have said all I care to - enjoy your day/evening in our Lords presence!!"

Ah, if only life was so simple, especially with the other Christians who come here to the Catholic section to point out our supposed errors. The faith must be defended, if only to perhaps open others eyes to the truth of the Holy Catholic (Latin Rite) faith tradition.

Offline MrGroceries

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #11 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 11:57:15 »
I agree - I defend them by stating my beliefs - I don't think that "discussing" scripture works - we are not going to change anyones mind - they just believe that particular passage  means something else - people have been talking about all these things for centuries - let's take an example - Catholic apologetics says this - http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/general/purgatry.htm

1. Do the Scriptures speak about praying for the dead?

The Second Book of Machabees tells us that after Judas had defeated Gorgias, he came to bury the slain Jews. "Making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacri fice to be offered for the sins of the dead." 2 Mach 12:43. Evidently Judas did not regard their sins to be grievous, for he says, "because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness had great grace laid up for them."That praying for the dead was a Jewish practice is manifested in these words: 2Mach 12:45. "It is, therefore, a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from their sins." 2 Mach12:46.

2. But the Books of Machabees are not contained in the Protestant Bible so why quote it to prove your doctrine?

The reformers rejected these books from the Bible precisely because they taught the doctrine of praying for the dead. If you Protestants deny that the Books of Machabees are two of the inspired books of the Bible then you must admit them as historical records of Jewish faith in praying for the dead.

3. Does the New Testament speak of your Purgatory?

Not in name but in fact. Mt. 12:32: "He that shall speak against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come." St. Augustine and St. Gregory gather from these words that some sins may be remitted in the world to come; and consequently that there is a Purgatory. St. Paul 1Cor. 3:13-15: "The fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." St.Paul tells us in these words that the soul shall be judged, suffer fora time and then be saved. The only place to suffer for a time before being saved is Purgatory. St. Mt. 5:25-26 speaks of the Prison, "and thou be cast into Prison. Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence,till thou pay the last farthing."

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #12 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 11:57:52 »
MrGroceries said: I really find your question surprising given this is a Christian forum. But, I will answer it. A Catholic needs to confess their sins to a priest - other Christians to Jesus - feel sorrow, ask for forgiveness and tell the priest or Jesus they will try to do better. When a Catholic/Christian allows sin to accumulate in their soul there is a point, that only God knows, that He considers them no longer in the state of grace. Being in the state of grace means that you are in "good standing" with God and can therefore receive His graces into your life. Catholics are given a penance by the priest(reparation) - performing some good work for their fellow man or perhaps praying for others, and if they don't then they accumulate a debt to God - and then this debt must be satisfied in purgatory  - but I don't think Christians believe in purgatory. I always have - and on top of that God had a friend of mine who died talk to me - he was in purgatory - in great distress - begging me to pray for him to help satisfy God's justice.

Poster Skeeter knows full well the tenants of the Catholic faith tradition. Many who come here to the Catholic forum were adherents of the Catholic faith at one time, but now look to other Christian sects for teaching.  Don't be fooled, they don't come here for knowledge of the Catholic faith and leave it at that. You are wrong, wrong, wrong, and that is their main message.

Offline MrGroceries

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #13 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 12:02:01 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!
glad to hear it - I posted this just to give others a moment of reflection to think about what they believe in light of the changes in the world that accept sin or in many cases deny that it exists - believing that right and wrong are relative only to be judged in a persons conscience

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #14 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 16:38:27 »
I really find your question surprising given this is a Christian forum. But, I will answer it.

Why did you find it surprising - in light of your other posts?


I agree - I defend them by stating my beliefs - I don't think that "discussing" scripture works - we are not going to change anyones mind - they just believe that particular passage  means something else - people have been talking about all these things for centuries - let's take an example - Catholic apologetics says this - http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/general/purgatry.htm

1. Do the Scriptures speak about praying for the dead?

The Second Book of Machabees tells us that after Judas had defeated Gorgias, he came to bury the slain Jews. "Making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacri fice to be offered for the sins of the dead." 2 Mach 12:43. Evidently Judas did not regard their sins to be grievous, for he says, "because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness had great grace laid up for them."That praying for the dead was a Jewish practice is manifested in these words: 2Mach 12:45. "It is, therefore, a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from their sins." 2 Mach12:46.

2. But the Books of Machabees are not contained in the Protestant Bible so why quote it to prove your doctrine?

The reformers rejected these books from the Bible precisely because they taught the doctrine of praying for the dead. If you Protestants deny that the Books of Machabees are two of the inspired books of the Bible then you must admit them as historical records of Jewish faith in praying for the dead.

red above -  why?  unless one IS Jewish.  I'm not, are you?

Blue - is that the only reason? have you  researched it or just taken someone's word on it?

Offline MrGroceries

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #15 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 16:45:09 »
it's obvious you want to buck heads but I am not interested in a ego/pride battle with you or anyone else. I will not play into satans hand. You can say what you want but as far as I am concerned the discussion is over. Enjoy your day/evening with our Lord!!

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #16 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 18:17:35 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!


 I prefer to stick to the teaching from the word of God and not a fallible church. Anything not in there, should be discounted.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 19:51:09 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!


 I prefer to stick to the teaching from the word of God and not a fallible church. Anything not in there, should be discounted.

Show me where it says that if something is not in the Bible, it should be discounted. Show me where in the Bible does the Holy Spirit state the canon of scripture.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #18 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 08:47:41 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!


 I prefer to stick to the teaching from the word of God and not a fallible church. Anything not in there, should be discounted.

Show me where it says that if something is not in the Bible, it should be discounted. Show me where in the Bible does the Holy Spirit state the canon of scripture.

Therein lies the core problem with the house of cards built in the reformation.  Without an infallible Church, you don't even know what books make up the word of God with absolute certainty.  And without absolute certainty you have no idea whether you are in orthodoxy or apostasy.  Any one of the books, or even all of them, in this library of books called the Bible, might be not inspired at all; it took a Church, a group of people with authority and a guarantee of infallibility, to say with absolute certainty that "this book is inspired" and "this book is not".

We also don't listen to a fallible church.  We listen to an infallible church, one that you reject, to your own detriment.

Offline kensington

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #19 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 15:13:44 »
I really don't feel that skeeter's main message is that "You are wrong, wrong, wrong" at all...  But, I do believe on several (more than several) she has proven that you are wrong, wrong, wrong.  With many of these Catholic teachings.

The fact that you believe them, doesn't make them right.  You sincerely believe them.  But, in many cases, you are sincerely wrong.  As in Purgatory. 

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #20 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 18:29:09 »
Poster Skeeter knows full well the tenants of the Catholic faith tradition. Many who come here to the Catholic forum were adherents of the Catholic faith at one time, but now look to other Christian sects for teaching.  Don't be fooled, they don't come here for knowledge of the Catholic faith and leave it at that. You are wrong, wrong, wrong, and that is their main message.
So?  What's the problem with knowing some of the tenants of the RCC?  It does make it more  difficult I guess - I don't just blindly accept what some of you post here.  I'm sure you'd rather no one asked any questions  or noticed that many CC teachings  aren't in the Bible. 

I now look to the Bible for teaching - God's word.  I have no problem questioning a leader/minister/lay person who teaches something not supported by the Bible.

Praying for the dead was/is a JEWISH thing to do, not a Christian thing to do.  What a shocker when I realized  I had been taught by the RCC to do something that is a Jewish thing to do.  There are some things that Jewish people do that are ok to do - it's knowing  the difference. 

From his last post I take it the OP cut out on the thread -  doesn't want to answer if he's Jewish?  Sticking one's head into the sand IS playing into satan's  hands.  That's just what he wants.   

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #21 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 18:36:28 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!


 I prefer to stick to the teaching from the word of God and not a fallible church. Anything not in there, should be discounted.

Show me where it says that if something is not in the Bible, it should be discounted. Show me where in the Bible does the Holy Spirit state the canon of scripture.

Therein lies the core problem with the house of cards built in the reformation.  Without an infallible Church, you don't even know what books make up the word of God with absolute certainty.  And without absolute certainty you have no idea whether you are in orthodoxy or apostasy.  Any one of the books, or even all of them, in this library of books called the Bible, might be not inspired at all; it took a Church, a group of people with authority and a guarantee of infallibility, to say with absolute certainty that "this book is inspired" and "this book is not".

We also don't listen to a fallible church.  We listen to an infallible church, one that you reject, to your own detriment.

There is no such thing as an infallible church or an infallible person, which is why we need to hear the word of an infallible God and check everything against what He says. God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::

Offline MrGroceries

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #22 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 19:05:08 »
I am a devout Orthodox Roman Catholic. If you don't know that satan does his best to  instigate conflict and hard feelings by tempting your pride/ego to do so then you guys are unknowledgable spiritual babies. You can't see what all this is about? No one is going to "enlighten" anyone - all you are going to do is "nicely" argue with each other - and apparently all this has happened before. I wouldn't think of posting in one of the other Christian forums - to pick a fight - it's spiritually childish. I have no need to fuel this pathological "discussion" by saying anything more.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #23 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 19:31:22 »
Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!
yes, we've been thru this a time or 2.  Every time a verse is listed to support a CC teaching, I look it up - and have yet to have it support the teaching.  I DO refuse to accept something that ISN'T.

The right Christian group (body of Christ) is one that teaches the truth of God from His word, the Bible.


Show me where it says that if something is not in the Bible, it should be discounted. Show me where in the Bible does the Holy Spirit state the canon of scripture.
depends on if you're talking baseball or what color to wear... if you're talking about doctrine/teachings of God then it needs to be in His word.
The bible doesn't state the canon. (??) It does give guidelines for deciding on which 'books' should be in it.


Therein lies the core problem with the house of cards built in the reformation.  Without an infallible Church, you don't even know what books make up the word of God with absolute certainty.  And without absolute certainty you have no idea whether you are in orthodoxy or apostasy.  Any one of the books, or even all of them, in this library of books called the Bible, might be not inspired at all; it took a Church, a group of people with authority and a guarantee of infallibility, to say with absolute certainty that "this book is inspired" and "this book is not".
yes, of all the books we now know exist, we can know that.  No,  it didn't take the RCC for that.


We also don't listen to a fallible church.  We listen to an infallible church, one that you reject, to your own detriment.
I don't reject the church of Christ.  I became a member of it in my late 20's.  That's when my real life started. Up to that point,  I was in deep trouble.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #24 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 20:16:48 »
I am a devout Orthodox Roman Catholic. If you don't know that satan does his best to  instigate conflict and hard feelings by tempting your pride/ego to do so then you guys are unknowledgable spiritual babies. You can't see what all this is about? No one is going to "enlighten" anyone - all you are going to do is "nicely" argue with each other - and apparently all this has happened before. I wouldn't think of posting in one of the other Christian forums - to pick a fight - it's spiritually childish. I have no need to fuel this pathological "discussion" by saying anything more.

and who said anyone posted here to purposely pick a fight? oh, a Catholic said something about that... I've found that Catholics get very testy when someone doesn't agree with their beliefs. 
Why is it that Catholics post on non-denom/protestant etc forums?

suit yourself... if that's what you think it is (believing Ladonia)  then you shouldn't post.  If you never come up against ideas / beliefs contrary to what you hold, you'll be as sharp as a nail head.  I learn a lot from threads like this.  They cause me to dig into God's word, to learn about  other beliefs, to learn more why I believe what I do and not what some others believe.  It's a challenge and it keeps the mind alive and active.

what's the red in your post above?  Did you post something to pick a fight?  be spiritually childish? 

Offline MrGroceries

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #25 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 20:24:44 »
I want nothing to do with this forum - I am leaving.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #26 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 21:36:43 »
There is no such thing as an infallible church or an infallible person, which is why we need to hear the word of an infallible God and check everything against what He says. God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::


So why do you not believe the Church that Christ set up to explain things to us? Christ never wrote a book and said just read it and you will know what you need to know. He set up the Church and that entity, made up of men put the NT Scriptures together and formulated the doctrines of the newly emerging Christian religion. I'll never understand why you can't understand that.
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 21:40:52 by Ladonia »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #27 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 01:27:04 »
There is no such thing as an infallible church or an infallible person, which is why we need to hear the word of an infallible God and check everything against what He says. God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::


So why do you not believe the Church that Christ set up to explain things to us? Christ never wrote a book and said just read it and you will know what you need to know. He set up the Church and that entity, made up of men put the NT Scriptures together and formulated the doctrines of the newly emerging Christian religion. I'll never understand why you can't understand that.

Who are you quoting?

Jesus often quoted the OT saying 'Have you not read....'    'It is written...'   He sure thought the people should read the OT books.  If they (Apostles) didn't want their teachings read, they wouldn't have written letters to the churches. The Apostles already had the necessary doctrines from Jesus.  He was in the temple as a boy reading from the scrolls.


Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #28 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 04:00:33 »
There is no such thing as an infallible church or an infallible person, which is why we need to hear the word of an infallible God and check everything against what He says. God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::


So why do you not believe the Church that Christ set up to explain things to us? Christ never wrote a book and said just read it and you will know what you need to know. He set up the Church and that entity, made up of men put the NT Scriptures together and formulated the doctrines of the newly emerging Christian religion. I'll never understand why you can't understand that.

If that is the case then why have their got into so many glaring errors? The church is wherever any of his children are gathered together, no matter what the name of the church. I choose to find churches that stick closest to Gods teaching in the bible.

matthew 18v20
For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them."
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 04:05:51 by chosenone »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #29 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 04:04:11 »
I am a devout Orthodox Roman Catholic. If you don't know that satan does his best to  instigate conflict and hard feelings by tempting your pride/ego to do so then you guys are unknowledgable spiritual babies. You can't see what all this is about? No one is going to "enlighten" anyone - all you are going to do is "nicely" argue with each other - and apparently all this has happened before. I wouldn't think of posting in one of the other Christian forums - to pick a fight - it's spiritually childish. I have no need to fuel this pathological "discussion" by saying anything more.

So you think that people cant disagree with each other? Cant point out error where it exists? Do we all have to then agree with you?

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #30 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 10:27:45 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!


 I prefer to stick to the teaching from the word of God and not a fallible church. Anything not in there, should be discounted.

Show me where it says that if something is not in the Bible, it should be discounted. Show me where in the Bible does the Holy Spirit state the canon of scripture.

Therein lies the core problem with the house of cards built in the reformation.  Without an infallible Church, you don't even know what books make up the word of God with absolute certainty.  And without absolute certainty you have no idea whether you are in orthodoxy or apostasy.  Any one of the books, or even all of them, in this library of books called the Bible, might be not inspired at all; it took a Church, a group of people with authority and a guarantee of infallibility, to say with absolute certainty that "this book is inspired" and "this book is not".

We also don't listen to a fallible church.  We listen to an infallible church, one that you reject, to your own detriment.

There is no such thing as an infallible church or an infallible person, which is why we need to hear the word of an infallible God and check everything against what He says.

The statement that you made here is fallible, isn't it?  So in fact there may be an infallible church or an infallible person.  And in fact there has to be for the word of God to be infallible.

Of course, in your mind the infallibility of any person of Church is somehow a natural infallibility rather than a divinely granted infallibility.  Surely you believe that God could be the cause of a person or church to be infallible?  Or do you believe that God is incapable of that?

God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::

Of course God is capable of making sure what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  And man is also capable of making sure that the things he didn't want in the Bible is not there, and that is exactly what the Protestant revolutionaries did.

God was also capable of making the Bible fall from the sky, but He did not.  Rather, He used the Church.
God was also capable of writing the Bible himself with his own human hands, but He did not.  Rather He used the Church.
God was also capable of preserving the autographs (the original copies of the Bible) but He did not. Rather, He used the Church to preserve the Gospel precisely.
God was also capable of ensuring that human languages would make it possible to exactly and precisely translate the words of scripture into any language but He did not. Rather, He used the Church which He grew and spread to all countries, speaking all languages, to preach His word unadulterated.
God was also capable of ensuring that human copyists would exactly and without error copy the originals so as to preserver exactly the words of the autographs, but he did not.  Rather, he ensured the Truth would remain despite the introduction of imperfections in the text, and He did so through His Church, which He founded.

God is certainly capable of anything.  But the fact is that God's chosen method to preserve the gospel perfectly was in the hearts of men and through preaching in union with "what you heard from the beginning", not through the distribution of literature for people to "fallibly" (your words) interpret with complete disregard with what was preached from the beginning and maintained through the Church which God not only instituted but also sustains and protects through His power, an act of God which is rightly makes the Church "infallible".

So I reiterate, in denying that the Church is infallible or that individuals are infallible is akin to denying that scripture is inerrant or that the Canon of scripture can be known.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #31 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 10:40:57 »
Show me where it says that if something is not in the Bible, it should be discounted. Show me where in the Bible does the Holy Spirit state the canon of scripture.
depends on if you're talking baseball or what color to wear... if you're talking about doctrine/teachings of God then it needs to be in His word.

How about the "teaching" you are giving here that all doctrine and teachings of God needs to be in the Bible?  Where is that teaching in the Bible?

According to chosenone if a teaching is not in the Bible it should be disregarded.  I am saying that that teaching itself is not in the Bible, and therefore by your own standard should be disregarded.

The bible doesn't state the canon. (??) It does give guidelines for deciding on which 'books' should be in it.

Nope, it doesn't state the canon.  It IS a canon, it doesn't state it.

As for your "guidelines", wherever they are, how do you know that THAT book states the guidelines is inspired? 

If I were to write a book claiming that "The Catcher in the Rye" is inspired, you could put my book in a Bible but if my book were not itself inspired, then you would wrongly think that "The Catcher in the Rye" is inspired.  Likewise if the book you say "gives guidelines" as to what is inspired you cannot know with absolute certainty is actually inspired, then your whole argument falls apart.  The "guidelines" are as reliable as the ones I "wrote" in my book regarding "The Catcher in the Rye".

Therein lies the core problem with the house of cards built in the reformation.  Without an infallible Church, you don't even know what books make up the word of God with absolute certainty.  And without absolute certainty you have no idea whether you are in orthodoxy or apostasy.  Any one of the books, or even all of them, in this library of books called the Bible, might be not inspired at all; it took a Church, a group of people with authority and a guarantee of infallibility, to say with absolute certainty that "this book is inspired" and "this book is not".
yes, of all the books we now know exist, we can know that.  No,  it didn't take the RCC for that.

Ok, how do you do that?

We also don't listen to a fallible church.  We listen to an infallible church, one that you reject, to your own detriment.
I don't reject the church of Christ.  I became a member of it in my late 20's.  That's when my real life started. Up to that point,  I was in deep trouble.

Actually, you have rejected the Church of Christ, and joined one that preaches a false gospel, one that insists that there are two gospels, one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles, which is heresy.  There is only one door to heaven, Jesus Christ, who is the Truth, and that one Truth is One Gospel for all men.  There is no longer Jew nor Greek in the eyes of God.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #32 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 10:57:23 »
I am a devout Orthodox Roman Catholic. If you don't know that satan does his best to  instigate conflict and hard feelings by tempting your pride/ego to do so then you guys are unknowledgable spiritual babies. You can't see what all this is about? No one is going to "enlighten" anyone - all you are going to do is "nicely" argue with each other - and apparently all this has happened before. I wouldn't think of posting in one of the other Christian forums - to pick a fight - it's spiritually childish. I have no need to fuel this pathological "discussion" by saying anything more.

So you think that people cant disagree with each other? Cant point out error where it exists? Do we all have to then agree with you?

No, it means exactly what it says.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #33 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 11:09:44 »
The most important decision we will ever make is becoming a believer. Where we do or dont meet with other believers is our choice, and usually God leads us to the place He wants us to go. He has done with me anyway.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Your Most Important Decision
« Reply #34 on: Thu Jan 08, 2015 - 11:12:40 »
Chosenone said: There is no such place as purgatory, nor is there any where in the Bible that says we should confess to a priest. The state of Grace thing is also not Biblical, we are either saved or we are not. Only those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour are His children, others are in satans kingdom. The ONLY way we are saved or adopted into Gods family is through the death of Jesus. We need to go to God through Jesus to confess sins.
YOu may have been told things as you grew up, and in the church you go to, but many of them are clearly not Biblical. if a churches teaching isnt in line with the Bible then we can discount it, and SHOULD discount it. 


Here we go again! EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches is Biblical, you just refuse to believe it's teaching on the matter and instead go to some newfangled biblical interpretation of the Holy Word. Again I will ask, which other Christian sect is right? Is it the 1st Baptist Church on Main street or the Assembly of God Church on Oak? Or perhaps it's the Apostolic Church of the Holy Word in the K-Mart shopping center?

I'll stick with the teaching church that has been around since day 1, thank you very much!


 I prefer to stick to the teaching from the word of God and not a fallible church. Anything not in there, should be discounted.

Show me where it says that if something is not in the Bible, it should be discounted. Show me where in the Bible does the Holy Spirit state the canon of scripture.

Therein lies the core problem with the house of cards built in the reformation.  Without an infallible Church, you don't even know what books make up the word of God with absolute certainty.  And without absolute certainty you have no idea whether you are in orthodoxy or apostasy.  Any one of the books, or even all of them, in this library of books called the Bible, might be not inspired at all; it took a Church, a group of people with authority and a guarantee of infallibility, to say with absolute certainty that "this book is inspired" and "this book is not".

We also don't listen to a fallible church.  We listen to an infallible church, one that you reject, to your own detriment.

There is no such thing as an infallible church or an infallible person, which is why we need to hear the word of an infallible God and check everything against what He says.

The statement that you made here is fallible, isn't it?  So in fact there may be an infallible church or an infallible person.  And in fact there has to be for the word of God to be infallible.

Of course, in your mind the infallibility of any person of Church is somehow a natural infallibility rather than a divinely granted infallibility.  Surely you believe that God could be the cause of a person or church to be infallible?  Or do you believe that God is incapable of that?

God is surely perfectly capable of making sure that what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  ::shrug::

Of course God is capable of making sure what is in the Bible is what He wanted there.  And man is also capable of making sure that the things he didn't want in the Bible is not there, and that is exactly what the Protestant revolutionaries did.

God was also capable of making the Bible fall from the sky, but He did not.  Rather, He used the Church.
God was also capable of writing the Bible himself with his own human hands, but He did not.  Rather He used the Church.
God was also capable of preserving the autographs (the original copies of the Bible) but He did not. Rather, He used the Church to preserve the Gospel precisely.
God was also capable of ensuring that human languages would make it possible to exactly and precisely translate the words of scripture into any language but He did not. Rather, He used the Church which He grew and spread to all countries, speaking all languages, to preach His word unadulterated.
God was also capable of ensuring that human copyists would exactly and without error copy the originals so as to preserver exactly the words of the autographs, but he did not.  Rather, he ensured the Truth would remain despite the introduction of imperfections in the text, and He did so through His Church, which He founded.

God is certainly capable of anything.  But the fact is that God's chosen method to preserve the gospel perfectly was in the hearts of men and through preaching in union with "what you heard from the beginning", not through the distribution of literature for people to "fallibly" (your words) interpret with complete disregard with what was preached from the beginning and maintained through the Church which God not only instituted but also sustains and protects through His power, an act of God which is rightly makes the Church "infallible".

So I reiterate, in denying that the Church is infallible or that individuals are infallible is akin to denying that scripture is inerrant or that the Canon of scripture can be known.

  Interesting that so many believers seem to be able to follow God,  grow in Him, learn, mature, Love Him and do His work without ever stepping into a RCatholic church.