Author Topic: prayer of jabez  (Read 2299 times)

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Offline moonbeam99

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prayer of jabez
« on: Sat Mar 09, 2013 - 20:18:00 »
i have this book. prayer of  jabez  is it good i also got secrets of the vine.have you read it?

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prayer of jabez
« on: Sat Mar 09, 2013 - 20:18:00 »

Offline DaveW

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #1 on: Thu May 02, 2013 - 11:24:39 »
I have read it.

But I knew about that prayer at least a decade before the book was popular.  Back in the late '70s or early '80s  the pastor of the church I attended read it and said it was the most selfish ungodly prayer in the bible.

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #2 on: Thu May 02, 2013 - 11:42:44 »
i have this book. prayer of  jabez  is it good i also got secrets of the vine.have you read it?

Yes, 'The Prayer of Jabez' is an excellent read.

Jabez' prayer is not selfish or ungodly. He was an honourable man and God was pleased to answer him, and grant him what he asked.

k-pappy

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #3 on: Fri May 03, 2013 - 23:59:04 »
Jabez and his prayer may have been godly, but the book based on it has turned into the basis for prosperity preaching.

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #3 on: Fri May 03, 2013 - 23:59:04 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline DaveW

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #4 on: Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:22:41 »
Jabez' prayer is not selfish or ungodly. He was an honourable man and God was pleased to answer him, and grant him what he asked.

Actually it is.  Look at how many times he uses the first person singular in the prayer:

1 Chronicles 4:10  Now Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, “Oh that You would bless me indeed and enlarge my border, and that Your hand might be with me, and that You would keep me from harm that it may not pain me!” And God granted him what he requested.

That prayer is entirely self-centered.

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #4 on: Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:22:41 »



Offline DaveW

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #5 on: Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:24:36 »
Jabez and his prayer may have been godly, but the book based on it has turned into the basis for prosperity preaching.

Probably because the so called "prosperity" message is equally self-centered.

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #6 on: Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:14:23 »
Jabez' prayer is not selfish or ungodly. He was an honourable man and God was pleased to answer him, and grant him what he asked.

Actually it is.  Look at how many times he uses the first person singular in the prayer:

1 Chronicles 4:10  Now Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, “Oh that You would bless me indeed and enlarge my border, and that Your hand might be with me, and that You would keep me from harm that it may not pain me!” And God granted him what he requested.

That prayer is entirely self-centered.


Do you not pray for yourself at times?

This is ONE prayer of an obscure man, whom God responded to favourably! We can learn from him about boldness and being specific with Him. God is always willing to bless.

Offline DaveW

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #7 on: Wed May 08, 2013 - 08:56:18 »
I rarely pray for myself beyond request for strength to do HIS will. I pray a lot for others.

Offline Jean74

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #8 on: Thu May 09, 2013 - 14:54:36 »
I rarely do pray for myself for asking for forgiveness of sins and that His will and not my will be done. And also praying for others like my family and friends. Along with the national and international needs and those that need to come to know Christ!

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #9 on: Thu May 09, 2013 - 14:59:57 »
I rarely pray for myself beyond request for strength to do HIS will. I pray a lot for others.

Do you think that praying to God about yourself, about your desires, about asking for help and direction, is self-centered?

I talk to God every day about things that concern me and about my walk with Him, and spend time in thanks for His ways in my life. He talks to me about those things, too. He is the center of my existence, so why wouldn't I? From there I can talk to Him about all sorts of things, and all kinds of other people and their needs.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
Always be joyful. Never stop praying. Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you who belong to Christ Jesus.
« Last Edit: Thu May 09, 2013 - 15:03:05 by Lively Stone »

Offline chosenone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #10 on: Thu May 09, 2013 - 19:45:48 »
I think that the Bible is very clear that we need to be specific in our prayers, rather than JUST saying "may your will be done", and the Lords prayer does actually include many personal prayers.The Bible is clear on what Gods will is, so we know we can pray the right thing if we pray in line with His word.

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #11 on: Thu May 09, 2013 - 21:16:27 »
I think that the Bible is very clear that we need to be specific in our prayers, rather than JUST saying "may your will be done", and the Lords prayer does actually include many personal prayers.The Bible is clear on what Gods will is, so we know we can pray the right thing if we pray in line with His word.




Philippians 4:6-7
Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.
« Last Edit: Thu May 09, 2013 - 21:19:50 by Lively Stone »

Offline DaveW

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #12 on: Thu May 16, 2013 - 11:31:45 »

Do you think that praying to God about yourself,  ....  is self-centered?
Absolutely.

Quote
about asking for help and direction, is self-centered?
It depends on the situation.

If there is no way I am benefited in the flesh by the direction (if it costs me) then no.
« Last Edit: Thu May 16, 2013 - 11:34:40 by DaveW »

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #13 on: Thu May 16, 2013 - 13:34:51 »

Do you think that praying to God about yourself,  ....  is self-centered?
Absolutely.

Quote
about asking for help and direction, is self-centered?
It depends on the situation.

If there is no way I am benefited in the flesh by the direction (if it costs me) then no.

There is nothing wrong with talking to God about oneself. Are you saying there is?

Offline chosenone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #14 on: Thu May 16, 2013 - 14:43:39 »
Well I would feel sad if my kids had never talked to me about their lives, hopes, problems, questions, difficulties etc. 

k-pappy

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #15 on: Thu May 16, 2013 - 22:18:38 »
There is nothing wrong with talking to God about oneself. Are you saying there is?

If you read what he wrote, he is most cerntianly not saying what you claim he is saying.

He is saying that asking for material possessions for yourself is wrong and self-centered.

Asking God for help, protection, healing is all fine, but asking God to bless you with material wealth is not.

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #16 on: Thu May 16, 2013 - 22:48:27 »
There is nothing wrong with talking to God about oneself. Are you saying there is?

If you read what he wrote, he is most cerntianly not saying what you claim he is saying.

He is saying that asking for material possessions for yourself is wrong and self-centered.

Asking God for help, protection, healing is all fine, but asking God to bless you with material wealth is not.

Asking for something you desire---even materially---is not wrong! God instills desires in us, and He loves to provide for us the things we desire and ask for!

John 14:13
You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father.

John 14:14
Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it!

John 15:16
You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name.

John 16:24b
...Ask, using my name, and you will receive, and you will have abundant joy.

k-pappy

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #17 on: Sat May 18, 2013 - 20:54:51 »

Asking for something you desire---even materially---is not wrong! God instills desires in us, and He loves to provide for us the things we desire and ask for!

John 14:13
You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father.

John 14:14
Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it!

John 15:16
You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name.

John 16:24b
...Ask, using my name, and you will receive, and you will have abundant joy.

That is the basis of prosperity preaching...and you have taken those scriptures waaaayyyyy out of context.

Quote from: John 14
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Context is key.  The context of this passage is bringing glory to the Father.  Jesus told us we would do greater wokrs than he did and that he would do what we asked, why?  So we can have material wealth?  NO!  "So that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

Using God as Santa Claus is wrong.  Praying for material wealth for yourself is wrong.  God will meet our needs, yes.  He has promised us that, but He never promised us that we would be rich.  Jesus spoke against the rich (Matt 19:24) and told one rich man to give up all his wealth (Luke 18:22).  Praying for material wealth for yourself is wrong.  When your focus is on that, it is off of God (Matt 6:24).

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #18 on: Sat May 18, 2013 - 23:20:43 »

Asking for something you desire---even materially---is not wrong! God instills desires in us, and He loves to provide for us the things we desire and ask for!

John 14:13
You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father.

John 14:14
Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it!

John 15:16
You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name.

John 16:24b
...Ask, using my name, and you will receive, and you will have abundant joy.

That is the basis of prosperity preaching...and you have taken those scriptures waaaayyyyy out of context.

Quote from: John 14
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Context is key.  The context of this passage is bringing glory to the Father.  Jesus told us we would do greater wokrs than he did and that he would do what we asked, why?  So we can have material wealth?  NO!  "So that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

Using God as Santa Claus is wrong.  Praying for material wealth for yourself is wrong.  God will meet our needs, yes.  He has promised us that, but He never promised us that we would be rich.  Jesus spoke against the rich (Matt 19:24) and told one rich man to give up all his wealth (Luke 18:22).  Praying for material wealth for yourself is wrong.  When your focus is on that, it is off of God (Matt 6:24).

The scriptures say what they say and they mean what they say. You can take them and use them to disparage all sorts of people, but that doesn't change what they mean. I am certainly not using them in the way you are suggesting. Do they bother you that much that instantly you think of something negative? Maybe that is something you need to work on.

k-pappy

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #19 on: Sun May 19, 2013 - 04:27:42 »
The scriptures say what they say and they mean what they say. You can take them and use them to disparage all sorts of people, but that doesn't change what they mean.

LS, since you made the accusation, please point out exactly how I used scripture to disparage you.

Do they bother you that much that instantly you think of something negative? Maybe that is something you need to work on.

Why attack me personally?  All I did was point out the context of scripture.  Why are you making it personal?

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #20 on: Sun May 19, 2013 - 10:01:44 »
The scriptures say what they say and they mean what they say. You can take them and use them to disparage all sorts of people, but that doesn't change what they mean.

LS, since you made the accusation, please point out exactly how I used scripture to disparage you.

I didn't say you disparaged me, but you and others do pretty much misapprehend what Jesus says, putting limits on it. Do you really think that God despises wealth for His people? He uses the wealth of those who are His that He can trust to use their wealth---pecuniary or otherwise---for His Kingdom purposes. Open hands are what He loves---not closed fists.

Quote
Do they bother you that much that instantly you think of something negative? Maybe that is something you need to work on.

Why attack me personally?  All I did was point out the context of scripture.  Why are you making it personal?

Jumping to conclusions about material wealth when discussing the freedom we have in asking God for anything is disconcerting. You seem poised for battle.

Don't forget that those who are walking with Jesus have a whole new set of desires.

Psalm 37:4
Take delight in the Lord,
    and he will give you your heart’s desires.

k-pappy

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #21 on: Mon May 20, 2013 - 23:08:54 »
Lively, why are you making it about me?  Why do you continue to attack me personally?  Where have I ever used scripture to disparage anyone?  I asked you to point it out and in response you continue to assault my character.

It is not about me.  It is not about you.  It is about serving God.

From your writing, it appears that you are teaching that praying for material wealth is ok.  It appears that you are teaching that God wants us to have material wealth.  If I am misreading, then please clarify. 

But please stop accusing me of things I have not done or claiming that I have intentions that I do not have.

Lively Stone

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #22 on: Tue May 21, 2013 - 07:54:37 »
Lively, why are you making it about me?  Why do you continue to attack me personally?  Where have I ever used scripture to disparage anyone?  I asked you to point it out and in response you continue to assault my character.

I've done nothing of the kind. (If I did, my post would not have been approved by a moderator, would it?)

Quote
It is not about me.  It is not about you.  It is about serving God.

Did someone say otherwise?

Quote
From your writing, it appears that you are teaching that praying for material wealth is ok.  It appears that you are teaching that God wants us to have material wealth.  If I am misreading, then please clarify. 

I say what the word says:

Ask for anything in Jesus' name and He will do it. I never said anything about people asking for wealth. God judges motive. He gives us our desires.

Quote
But please stop accusing me of things I have not done or claiming that I have intentions that I do not have.

I have never done that. I am speaking in generalities. We are completely free to come to God with our petitions about anything. How Jabez prayed was completely honest. We need to be more open and down to basics with God, really getting it that He is our Papa God (Abba), and that He desires to bless us beyond anything we can imagine.

k-pappy

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Re: prayer of jabez
« Reply #23 on: Tue May 21, 2013 - 22:27:26 »
I am stunned...you made a personal attack against me, dug in your heels and now you are denying it.

Praying for material wealth is wrong.  You have sufficiently muddied the waters so that I have absolutely no idea what you are saying or what you believe, but I know that praying for material wealth is wrong.  I showed you the context of the scripture you quoted and you attacked me for it.  I'm afraing that continuing this thread would not be fruitful. 

You have the last word, I won't respond in this thread anymore.

 

     
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