At odds with my situation

[zoonance]

In other words.   I need loopholes.  I want to have sex with this woman and need "christian" assurance to continue doing so.       "But God, they said it was OK!"

[Mac]

Issues can be addressed without taking it over the top, just like how you said you would talk to the fat person, but its the insesance and beligerance with which it is drilled that makes divorce and sex issues drive people out and I do not think that is right, I am not expecting you to condone it but you do not need to keep beating that person over the head.  You state what you know to be true and leave it at that but that is often not what happens.

You are right. It has more to do with the delivery than anything. However, the problem today is that most people do not want to hear the truth. And if you tell it to them, they expect you to understand why they are doing it and forget about it. Like they have earned the right to flaunt their sin because they listened to your opinion of it.

So yes, you should not "brow beat" people. But you can't let them believe you are accepting or passive to it either.

[fanuvmxpx]

In other words.   I need loopholes.  I want to have sex with this woman and need "christian" assurance to continue doing so.       "But God, they said it was OK!"

All you have to do is own up to the fact that "I blew it", ask for forgiveness and move on. Keep on dating the girlfriend until she becomes the bride, then go get 'er. Its quite simple, its human stubbornness that creates confusion/drama into the situation.

Just man up for awhile, and marry her the very next day after the divorce finalizes.

[chosenone]

What about in states where common law marriage is acceptable I thought that was a very good point.

I dont agree with mac that if you are committed to each other that is as good as marriage but that we need to marrry properly according to the country that we live in, but that is just what I feel Paul is saying, however you cannot marry as yet, so have to wait till you are divorced.
God doesnt make these instructions to live by to make our lives harder,he makes them to protect us.

You are correct chosenone. I probably should have spent more time addressing this issue. I had an image in my mind of 2 people being stranded on an island. Would their commitment be enough? Would they actually be married? I think yes. It is all they have.

Not a very clear post from me. My argument was from a literal stand point. But I agree with you, we should live by the law of the land and be married according to society norms as long as it doesn't conflict with God's word.

If we are Christans , we are to obey Him and not what the world says is ok. Living togather isnt right according to God, only marriage is. Goodnes if we went along with the world we would be disobeying God all the time. The worlds standards are not ours.The worlds standards are rock bottom, and anything goes.

[chosenone]

I dont agree with mac that if you are committed to each other that is as good as marriage but that we need to marrry properly according to the country that we live in, but that is just what I feel Paul is saying, however you cannot marry as yet, so have to wait till you are divorced.
God doesnt make these instructions to live by to make our lives harder,he makes them to protect us.

You are correct chosenone. I probably should have spent more time addressing this issue. I had an image in my mind of 2 people being stranded on an island. Would their commitment be enough? Would they actually be married? I think yes. It is all they have.

Not a very clear post from me. My argument was from a literal stand point. But I agree with you, we should live by the law of the land and be married according to society norms as long as it doesn't conflict with God's word.

  Thanks mac for your answer.

[chosenone]

In other words.   I need loopholes.  I want to have sex with this woman and need "christian" assurance to continue doing so.       "But God, they said it was OK!"

All you have to do is own up to the fact that "I blew it", ask for forgiveness and move on. Keep on dating the girlfriend until she becomes the bride, then go get 'er. Its quite simple, its human stubbornness that creates confusion/drama into the situation.

Just man up for awhile, and marry her the very next day after the divorce finalizes.

 fasnuvmxpx, I strogly suspect that the girlfreind isnt a Christian actually. I have asked him twice if she is, but have got no answer. if she is, why is she sleeping with another womens husband? If she isnt, then he should not marry her as that isnt what God wants for him and will only lead to further trouble and suffering.

[browneyes]

If we are Christans , we are to obey Him and not what the world says is ok. Living together isnt right according to God, only marriage is. Goodnes if we went along with the world we would be disobeying God all the time. The worlds standards are not ours.The worlds standards are rock bottom, and anything goes.

This is so very true.  We must make a choice God's way or the worlds way. 

[rppearso]

Does it say in the bible that last names must be taken and taxes filed jointly, if the state recognizes it as a valid union thats all you really need.  You see we have created all kinds of ritual that is not biblical and the church preachs it like it is.

What about in states where common law marriage is acceptable I thought that was a very good point.

That is really a good point. However, I think that states that acknowledge "Common Law" marriages, it is solely for the purpose of equitable distribution of assets in the event of a very long term, live in relationship goes south.

You can't file taxes as, Mr. and Mrs. Smith.. It would not be legally recognised. You would file under each others name. Legal name. John Smith and Jane Doe. So, again, common law is mostly for break up situations so the courts can have some jurisdiction to divide assets. It is that way here in my home state.

[rppearso]

The worlds standards are not rock bottom anything goes, in fact much of our laws are based on christian values (ie the moral laws of the 10 commandments, which I think is the last 5), murder is illegal, adultry can be very expensive for the cheating spouse, stealing is illegal, purgery is illegal (bear false witness), the outward expression of coveting (stealing your neigbors car, etc) is illegal.  And actually even 3 and 4 are upheld, most people have sat and sun off therefore afforded the option of keeping the sabath holy and taking the lords name in vain (or any swearing in general) is against most company policy.  So society is upholding 7 out of the 10 which in my opinion is not bad that leaves the other 3 up to the individual which is actual beleif in God, the only one society has totally left out is honoring your mother and father.  I would agree hollywood has hit rock bottom and money can buy there way out of just about anything but murder so hollywood is upholding 1 out of 10 and thats only because the consequences are to severe.  I think to many christians have a hollier than thou attitude and it makes it difficult to get new members and then when someone does become a christian they have to wade through all the hypocracy and condemnation of the chruch members.  I was fortunate enough to become a christian in a very small church in a rural area and when I went to college I disengaged because they were crazy and did not live in reality or were hypocrites.  People were more than willing to point out your flaws but when you pointed out flaws in there entire religious dogma they would start getting houty and spouting off a bunch of personal oppinion that did not amont to a hill of beans.

What about in states where common law marriage is acceptable I thought that was a very good point.

I dont agree with mac that if you are committed to each other that is as good as marriage but that we need to marrry properly according to the country that we live in, but that is just what I feel Paul is saying, however you cannot marry as yet, so have to wait till you are divorced.
God doesnt make these instructions to live by to make our lives harder,he makes them to protect us.

You are correct chosenone. I probably should have spent more time addressing this issue. I had an image in my mind of 2 people being stranded on an island. Would their commitment be enough? Would they actually be married? I think yes. It is all they have.

Not a very clear post from me. My argument was from a literal stand point. But I agree with you, we should live by the law of the land and be married according to society norms as long as it doesn't conflict with God's word.

If we are Christans , we are to obey Him and not what the world says is ok. Living togather isnt right according to God, only marriage is. Goodnes if we went along with the world we would be disobeying God all the time. The worlds standards are not ours.The worlds standards are rock bottom, and anything goes.

[chosenone]

The worlds standards are not rock bottom anything goes, in fact much of our laws are based on christian values (ie the moral laws of the 10 commandments, which I think is the last 5), murder is illegal, adultry can be very expensive for the cheating spouse, stealing is illegal, purgery is illegal (bear false witness), the outward expression of coveting (stealing your neigbors car, etc) is illegal.  And actually even 3 and 4 are upheld, most people have sat and sun off therefore afforded the option of keeping the sabath holy and taking the lords name in vain (or any swearing in general) is against most company policy.  So society is upholding 7 out of the 10 which in my opinion is not bad that leaves the other 3 up to the individual which is actual beleif in God, the only one society has totally left out is honoring your mother and father.  I would agree hollywood has hit rock bottom and money can buy there way out of just about anything but murder so hollywood is upholding 1 out of 10 and thats only because the consequences are to severe.  I think to many christians have a hollier than thou attitude and it makes it difficult to get new members and then when someone does become a christian they have to wade through all the hypocracy and condemnation of the chruch members.  I was fortunate enough to become a christian in a very small church in a rural area and when I went to college I disengaged because they were crazy and did not live in reality or were hypocrites.  People were more than willing to point out your flaws but when you pointed out flaws in there entire religious dogma they would start getting houty and spouting off a bunch of personal oppinion that did not amont to a hill of beans.

What about in states where common law marriage is acceptable I thought that was a very good point.

I dont agree with mac that if you are committed to each other that is as good as marriage but that we need to marrry properly according to the country that we live in, but that is just what I feel Paul is saying, however you cannot marry as yet, so have to wait till you are divorced.
God doesnt make these instructions to live by to make our lives harder,he makes them to protect us.

You are correct chosenone. I probably should have spent more time addressing this issue. I had an image in my mind of 2 people being stranded on an island. Would their commitment be enough? Would they actually be married? I think yes. It is all they have.

Not a very clear post from me. My argument was from a literal stand point. But I agree with you, we should live by the law of the land and be married according to society norms as long as it doesn't conflict with God's word.

If we are Christans , we are to obey Him and not what the world says is ok. Living togather isnt right according to God, only marriage is. Goodnes if we went along with the world we would be disobeying God all the time. The worlds standards are not ours.The worlds standards are rock bottom, and anything goes.

 

I feel that you are deflecting your situation and how wrong that it is by saying what a mess the church is in. Implying that you can do what you like becuase the church isnt perfect is a red herring. We could all do that, ie blame the church for all of our sins and ills.
The church I go to is very much trying to obey God in all things, they stick to the bible and their desire is to please God in all ways  including moral standards. There can be no compromise with God. This church is thriving and keeps having to move to new premesis becuase it is growing so fast. However it wont compromise on what The Bible says, as if we do that we are on the downward slope.
if churches have this attitude of no compromise on Gods desires and standards then it will be blessed.

 You really need the power of God working in your life. God never tells us to do anything and then leave us to do it alone. He is ready and wanting to help you, but you need to do your part and stop this sinful lifestyle and repent and then He WILL help you. The Bible says that NOTHING is impoossible to those who believe. People do all sorts of seemingly impossible things all the time with Gods strength and help.If you just say I cant do it it is too hard, you wont be able to, but if you say I can do ALL things through Christ and do it, then you will change and be blessed and get the victory over this situation. Do you want a good and close relationship with God, and Gods blessing? or do you want the repercussions of what you are doing to come?  "Blessing or curse you can choose" is the Title of one of Derek Princes books, and it so very true , we CAN choose the narrow way or the wide way. One leads to life and one to death.

[rppearso]

I dont know how to make this any simpler, the church set up the stumbling blocks and when the stumbling occured they were quick to condemn (not all in the chruch were this way by the way, some were very reasonable about the whole situation) but it creates division.  The church preachs that its ok to deny oral sex or that it is an abomination and they have no scriptual backing for it and that just adds fuel to the wife that was not to hot on it anyways.  Using your own words just because you dont want to do something does not mean its ok not to.

The worlds standards are not rock bottom anything goes, in fact much of our laws are based on christian values (ie the moral laws of the 10 commandments, which I think is the last 5), murder is illegal, adultry can be very expensive for the cheating spouse, stealing is illegal, purgery is illegal (bear false witness), the outward expression of coveting (stealing your neigbors car, etc) is illegal.  And actually even 3 and 4 are upheld, most people have sat and sun off therefore afforded the option of keeping the sabath holy and taking the lords name in vain (or any swearing in general) is against most company policy.  So society is upholding 7 out of the 10 which in my opinion is not bad that leaves the other 3 up to the individual which is actual beleif in God, the only one society has totally left out is honoring your mother and father.  I would agree hollywood has hit rock bottom and money can buy there way out of just about anything but murder so hollywood is upholding 1 out of 10 and thats only because the consequences are to severe.  I think to many christians have a hollier than thou attitude and it makes it difficult to get new members and then when someone does become a christian they have to wade through all the hypocracy and condemnation of the chruch members.  I was fortunate enough to become a christian in a very small church in a rural area and when I went to college I disengaged because they were crazy and did not live in reality or were hypocrites.  People were more than willing to point out your flaws but when you pointed out flaws in there entire religious dogma they would start getting houty and spouting off a bunch of personal oppinion that did not amont to a hill of beans.

What about in states where common law marriage is acceptable I thought that was a very good point.

I dont agree with mac that if you are committed to each other that is as good as marriage but that we need to marrry properly according to the country that we live in, but that is just what I feel Paul is saying, however you cannot marry as yet, so have to wait till you are divorced.
God doesnt make these instructions to live by to make our lives harder,he makes them to protect us.

You are correct chosenone. I probably should have spent more time addressing this issue. I had an image in my mind of 2 people being stranded on an island. Would their commitment be enough? Would they actually be married? I think yes. It is all they have.

Not a very clear post from me. My argument was from a literal stand point. But I agree with you, we should live by the law of the land and be married according to society norms as long as it doesn't conflict with God's word.

If we are Christans , we are to obey Him and not what the world says is ok. Living togather isnt right according to God, only marriage is. Goodnes if we went along with the world we would be disobeying God all the time. The worlds standards are not ours.The worlds standards are rock bottom, and anything goes.

 

I feel that you are deflecting your situation and how wrong that it is by saying what a mess the church is in. Implying that you can do what you like becuase the church isnt perfect is a red herring. We could all do that, ie blame the church for all of our sins and ills.
The church I go to is very much trying to obey God in all things, they stick to the bible and their desire is to please God in all ways  including moral standards. There can be no compromise with God. This church is thriving and keeps having to move to new premesis becuase it is growing so fast. However it wont compromise on what The Bible says, as if we do that we are on the downward slope.
if churches have this attitude of no compromise on Gods desires and standards then it will be blessed.

 You really need the power of God working in your life. God never tells us to do anything and then leave us to do it alone. He is ready and wanting to help you, but you need to do your part and stop this sinful lifestyle and repent and then He WILL help you. The Bible says that NOTHING is impoossible to those who believe. People do all sorts of seemingly impossible things all the time with Gods strength and help.If you just say I cant do it it is too hard, you wont be able to, but if you say I can do ALL things through Christ and do it, then you will change and be blessed and get the victory over this situation. Do you want a good and close relationship with God, and Gods blessing? or do you want the repercussions of what you are doing to come?  "Blessing or curse you can choose" is the Title of one of Derek Princes books, and it so very true , we CAN choose the narrow way or the wide way. One leads to life and one to death.

[chosenone]

I guess that I have never heard an actual church teach that oral sex isnt OK.  Then I have never heard a church teach anything about sex full stop.
I havent much problem with oral sex, but do have a problem when it becomes the be all and end all of life, and causes the break up of marriages if one pressures the other to take part.
In anything like this you will always get opposing views, but it is surerly something to sort out between married couples without any pressure, or control from one on the other. If having oral or anal sex becomes more important that your spouse or your marriage then that is where surely it is of too much importance.
What it one wants to beat the other with a stick. Are they then supposed to comply also? how far does this have to go in your opinion?   
What if one wants the other to watch porn with them. is that going too far? 

[rppearso]

There is a difference between pressure and just being honest that one is not happy and that divorce is a  possible result.  I think I have said like a billion times raping your spouse or insesantly pressuring them is not ok.

I guess that I have never heard an actual church teach that oral sex isnt OK.  Then I have never heard a church teach anything about sex full stop.
I havent much problem with oral sex, but do have a problem when it becomes the be all and end all of life, and causes the break up of marriages if one pressures the other to take part.
In anything like this you will always get opposing views, but it is surerly something to sort out between married couples without any pressure, or control from one on the other. If having oral or anal sex becomes more important that your spouse or your marriage then that is where surely it is of too much importance.
What it one wants to beat the other with a stick. Are they then supposed to comply also? how far does this have to go in your opinion?   
What if one wants the other to watch porn with them. is that going too far? 

[Mac]

There is a difference between pressure and just being honest that one is not happy and that divorce is a  possible result.  I think I have said like a billion times raping your spouse or insesantly pressuring them is not ok.

But that still doesn't make it right. The bible says that all things are permissible in the marriage bed as long as neither is offended. How do you reconcile that with what you are laying out as truth? I do not think you can honestly.

I do not think it is a right and wrong thing as much as it is one not wanting to do it because of what ever reason. Whether you admit it or not, the idea of oral sex is repulsive for some women.. And some men if the truth be told.

There is a difference in a person not wanting to partake in oral sex because they have been taught that anything other than missionary position sex is wrong and a person who finds it repulsive. Some people have been taught that sex is wrong unless it is for procreation. That is not biblical either. God created sex for a man and a woman (in a God blessed marriage) to enjoy. There should be nothing shameful about having sex with your spouse. But that is precisely why we are told that if it offends one, it should offend both. If a person was taught wrongly that sex is "bad" after you have dealt with that, then it could be presented. However, if she or he finds it reprehensible, it should be left alone.

Your logic is not sound in my opinion. You can't justify divorce because of a lack of oral sex.

[chosenone]

There is a difference between pressure and just being honest that one is not happy and that divorce is a  possible result.  I think I have said like a billion times raping your spouse or insesantly pressuring them is not ok.

I guess that I have never heard an actual church teach that oral sex isnt OK.  Then I have never heard a church teach anything about sex full stop.
I havent much problem with oral sex, but do have a problem when it becomes the be all and end all of life, and causes the break up of marriages if one pressures the other to take part.
In anything like this you will always get opposing views, but it is surerly something to sort out between married couples without any pressure, or control from one on the other. If having oral or anal sex becomes more important that your spouse or your marriage then that is where surely it is of too much importance.
What it one wants to beat the other with a stick. Are they then supposed to comply also? how far does this have to go in your opinion?   
What if one wants the other to watch porn with them. is that going too far? 

 Where in the Bible does it say that lack of sex is a biblical reason to divorce your spouse?