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Offline sajang

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Divorces
« on: Tue Mar 14, 2017 - 23:58:57 »
Malachi 2:16  “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.”
Numbers 30:2  If a man vows a vow to the Lord, or swears an oath to bind himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word. He shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.  Ecclesiastes 5:4  When you vow a vow to God, do not delay paying it, for he has no pleasure in fools. Pay what you vow :
"I, ___, take thee, ___, to be my wedded husband/wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part, according to God’s holy law;in the presence of God I make this vow.
Luke 16:18  “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.  1 Corinthians 7:2

Matthew 19:6  So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, don't let man tear apart."
 ::reading:: ::bowing::

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Divorces
« on: Tue Mar 14, 2017 - 23:58:57 »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #1 on: Wed Mar 15, 2017 - 05:32:46 »
Matthew 19v9
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

http://www.divorcehope.com/

Online Rella

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #2 on: Wed Mar 15, 2017 - 07:21:11 »
Malachi 2:16  “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.”
Numbers 30:2  If a man vows a vow to the Lord, or swears an oath to bind himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word. He shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.  Ecclesiastes 5:4  When you vow a vow to God, do not delay paying it, for he has no pleasure in fools. Pay what you vow :
"I, ___, take thee, ___, to be my wedded husband/wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part, according to God’s holy law;in the presence of God I make this vow.
Luke 16:18  “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.  1 Corinthians 7:2

Matthew 19:6  So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, don't let man tear apart."
 ::reading:: ::bowing::

I appreciate your posting this and you are correct.

Correct enough that I added to your manna... however, Chosenone is also correct and that must be considered
heavily when this subject crops up.

But I have to ask the following of you.

What is to be done when a husband literally pushes a pregnant woman down the stairs?

What is to be done when a husband physically beats his wife to the point of her having bruises so bad that she had
to lie about what happened to those who say her and them?

(These actually happened to 2 of my friends)

What is to be done when a man severely beats his children?

What is to be done when you find out the man you married has actually been a murderer?

What is to be done when a man will not provide enough or support his family because all he does is spend money
on gambling and end up filing for bankruptcy, and he refuses to change?

What is to be done when he is so hooked on drugs and alcohol and again refuses to do anything about that?

(That happened to my aunt. The embarrassment the man caused was unreal)

What is to be done when a man just up and abandons a woman?

What happens when a man steals from you and your family, and fakes a robbery in your house to take jewelry and money to finance his lifestyle, away from her... while letting the insurance company handle things?

(That happened to a cousin of mine)

What happens when a wife (bipolar) causes a husband to be arrested and taken to jail under the claim that he beat
his children unmercifully and had the youngest boy tell the police that was true that his dad beat him.... when in fact the husband never even spanked the kids for correction?

(This was my cousin)

What would you do sajang?

Yes the Holy Bible is the inerrant word of God.

But God does not address these travesties in His book. At least not in the limited portion that the church uses for Canon.

So.... I ask again... what would you do?  Stay married because you have been joined as one to continue to get the abuse? 

If you say yes to this, then ask yourself what loving God would want you to suffer such torments?

FYI: My 2 friends never re-married. My aunt and one cousin also never remarried. My male cousin did re-marry, but then again... he is a man, enough said.)

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #2 on: Wed Mar 15, 2017 - 07:21:11 »

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #3 on: Wed Mar 15, 2017 - 09:34:44 »

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #3 on: Wed Mar 15, 2017 - 09:34:44 »

Offline jeager

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #4 on: Mon Mar 20, 2017 - 15:55:08 »
I soooooooooooooooooo wish my J.W. mother had divorced my alcoholic, sexually,
emotionally, physically, abusive, father who was a no good, drunken, ignorant, mean,
excuse for a man.
He raped my sister when she was 13 and I heard it all from my room next to hers.
When sis told mom, my mom slapped her and BLAMED her for the molestation!
Then made her swear to never tell anyone.

Sis never did get counseling and now, at age 68, is a confirmed practicing alcoholic.
She hasn't spoken to me in many decades. I fear she sees our father in me as I'm his
only son.
I dunno.
Dad scared us kids to death and mother scared us to death with Jehovah.
"Jehovah God will send birds from heaven to pick your eyes out if your bad."
And worse.
Nice huh?

For most of my life I refused to even say a prayer or participate in a prayer.
I hated and feared that "god" so much.
I know better today and LOVE religion and study Christianity.
I still will NOT set foot in a church.
I pray often and know the God of my understanding is NOT that "god" my mother
beat me up with.
I have two degrees, one from a Presbyterian university where our first text book was
a Bible.


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Re: Divorces
« Reply #4 on: Mon Mar 20, 2017 - 15:55:08 »



Offline jeager

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #5 on: Mon Mar 20, 2017 - 15:59:43 »
Matthew 19v9
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

http://www.divorcehope.com/


Well what about the parent that beats and molests his children?

Put the kids at risk to stay married?
I don't think so.

I'll take my chances with God's mercy, not the OPINION of some person on
an internet forum.
If people think they have the Bible nailed down just right then why are the
33,000 denominations of Christians all reading the same book!

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm

Some suggest as many as 40,000 or more denominations of Christians.

PICK THE RIGHT ONE then let me know what it is please. rofl rofl

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #5 on: Mon Mar 20, 2017 - 15:59:43 »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #6 on: Mon Mar 20, 2017 - 19:02:57 »
Matthew 19v9
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

http://www.divorcehope.com/


Well what about the parent that beats and molests his children?

Put the kids at risk to stay married?
I don't think so.


I don't think anyone would think a parent should stay in a marriage like that.  I think the most legalistic among the Body *would* tell the spouse that left (and took the kids), NOT to divorce and if they did, NOT to get remarried.

I don't happen to hold to that conviction for others.


Offline chosenone

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #7 on: Tue Mar 21, 2017 - 00:30:44 »
Matthew 19v9
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

http://www.divorcehope.com/


Well what about the parent that beats and molests his children?

Put the kids at risk to stay married?
I don't think so.

I'll take my chances with God's mercy, not the OPINION of some person on
an internet forum.
If people think they have the Bible nailed down just right then why are the
33,000 denominations of Christians all reading the same book!

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm

Some suggest as many as 40,000 or more denominations of Christians.

PICK THE RIGHT ONE then let me know what it is please. rofl rofl
 

Molesting children IS sexual immorality, so more than enough reason to divorce.  If the spouse or children are being physically or sexually abused then of course the marriage must end. 

If you actually read that link you will see that the author believes that God allows divorce for various things and is very compassionate towards those who are divorced.  He has studied this subject in depth and shows Gods heart towards those who are on this horrible position.

The Bible is the Bible regardless of which church we go to.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #8 on: Tue Mar 21, 2017 - 00:41:53 »
I soooooooooooooooooo wish my J.W. mother had divorced my alcoholic, sexually,
emotionally, physically, abusive, father who was a no good, drunken, ignorant, mean,
excuse for a man.
He raped my sister when she was 13 and I heard it all from my room next to hers.
When sis told mom, my mom slapped her and BLAMED her for the molestation!
Then made her swear to never tell anyone.

Sis never did get counseling and now, at age 68, is a confirmed practicing alcoholic.
She hasn't spoken to me in many decades. I fear she sees our father in me as I'm his
only son.
I dunno.
Dad scared us kids to death and mother scared us to death with Jehovah.
"Jehovah God will send birds from heaven to pick your eyes out if your bad."
And worse.
Nice huh?

For most of my life I refused to even say a prayer or participate in a prayer.
I hated and feared that "god" so much.
I know better today and LOVE religion and study Christianity.
I still will NOT set foot in a church.
I pray often and know the God of my understanding is NOT that "god" my mother
beat me up with.
I have two degrees, one from a Presbyterian university where our first text book was
a Bible.
 

Yes your mother SHOULD have ended that marriage, in fact she shouldn't have married him at all. If she knew you were being sexually or physically abused and did nothing about it, she is just as guilty as him.
Your poor sister, how terrible for her to have been punished by your mother as well as raped by your dad.
God wept I am sure. Some people should never have children.   
I am glad that you can now see that your mothers terrible words were nothing to do with God.  I wish you could come to our church, its so friendly and welcoming and caring. I know many christians who were abused, they love their church family, give it a go.
There are many good churches out there. Remember the JW's are a cult.

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #8 on: Tue Mar 21, 2017 - 00:41:53 »

Offline sajang

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #9 on: Mon Mar 27, 2017 - 21:40:38 »
This maybe how your conscience interpret ?      Romans 13:1-5  Let every  person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.  ::reading::

Offline Pkbrother

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #10 on: Sun Apr 02, 2017 - 21:30:39 »
Matthew 19:3-12
JEsus interprets marriage and divorce....
Moses allowed divorce because of hardness of hearts
Master if this is so ..it is better not to marry...v.10
jesus supports being single to prevent mass divorce...v12
This obviously only applies to Christians
Paul supports being single because of high divorce rate in the church at corinth
1 corinthians 7:26-28
Divorce rate is 38% in the church for those who regurlaly attend church
It goes down if you are involved at church in bible studies and prayer meetings
America church is like corinth when it comes to divorce......
pastors are pressured to accept marriage and divorce when it is not biblical....
Churches are pressured to accept divorced pastors divorced deacons and divorced elders.....
Husband of one wife...1 timothy 3:2...3:12
Violation of this rule has caused many divisions in our churches
If a person is divorced he should stay single for a period of time to recover and review why he got a divorce...he must also seek counsel and repent of any sins he has committed before during and aftr his marriage.......
A brother in Christ i know got a biblical divorce but felt like God told him to wait 5 years before he pursued another marriage.....he hated this and woudnt wait the proper length of time..although he did wait about 5 years before he got remarried
he married quickly after that and then got another divorce
Another friend i met a few. Years ago said that God told him to separate himselffrom women..no dating pursuing relationship....for 5 years
he waited till The 5 years and ran into another girl who God had also told to take 5 years away from dating
They are both getting married in a few weeks...great couple


Offline chosenone

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #11 on: Sun Apr 02, 2017 - 21:47:30 »
Matthew 19:3-12
JEsus interprets marriage and divorce....
Moses allowed divorce because of hardness of hearts
Master if this is so ..it is better not to marry...v.10
jesus supports being single to prevent mass divorce...v12
This obviously only applies to Christians
Paul supports being single because of high divorce rate in the church at corinth
1 corinthians 7:26-28
Divorce rate is 38% in the church for those who regurlaly attend church
It goes down if you are involved at church in bible studies and prayer meetings
America church is like corinth when it comes to divorce......
pastors are pressured to accept marriage and divorce when it is not biblical....
Churches are pressured to accept divorced pastors divorced deacons and divorced elders.....
Husband of one wife...1 timothy 3:2...3:12
Violation of this rule has caused many divisions in our churches
If a person is divorced he should stay single for a period of time to recover and review why he got a divorce...he must also seek counsel and repent of any sins he has committed before during and aftr his marriage.......
A brother in Christ i know got a biblical divorce but felt like God told him to wait 5 years before he pursued another marriage.....he hated this and woudnt wait the proper length of time..although he did wait about 5 years before he got remarried
he married quickly after that and then got another divorce
Another friend i met a few. Years ago said that God told him to separate himselffrom women..no dating pursuing relationship....for 5 years
he waited till The 5 years and ran into another girl who God had also told to take 5 years away from dating
They are both getting married in a few weeks...great couple
 

For me it was 4 years before I could even think of another man, and another 2 years before I met my now husband. I do think that many jump too soon into new relationships, I have noticed that in those whose spouses have died as well, I know 3 widowers who were with another lady within months and married the year after their wife died. Its far too soon to be over what happened.

BTW this verse you talked about 1 timothy 3:2...3:12, it clearly doesn't mean that you cant have had more than one wife because that would exclude widowers who have remarried. It actually means that you are 'a one woman man', only married to one lady now, remembering that some men then still had more than one wife at the same time.

 I am very surprised that the divorce rate among church going christians is 38%, I hardly know of any divorces between 2 church going Christians here in the UK. 
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 02, 2017 - 21:49:46 by chosenone »

Offline RB

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #12 on: Mon Apr 03, 2017 - 04:29:07 »
What is to be done when a husband literally pushes a pregnant woman down the stairs?

What is to be done when a husband physically beats his wife to the point of her having bruises so bad that she had
to lie about what happened to those who say her and them?

(These actually happened to 2 of my friends)

What is to be done when a man severely beats his children?

What is to be done when you find out the man you married has actually been a murderer?

What is to be done when a man will not provide enough or support his family because all he does is spend money
on gambling and end up filing for bankruptcy, and he refuses to change?

What is to be done when he is so hooked on drugs and alcohol and again refuses to do anything about that?

(That happened to my aunt. The embarrassment the man caused was unreal)


Greetings Rella, these are all hypotheticl questions and if such things do indeed happen (I believe what you said) then they do not generally ever happen to Christians. I say that for many reasons. I have found that most (Christians) use an higher standard to seek out a spouse....the word of God is our guide and instructor. Yes, anyone can be deceived and I know that~but the rule stands. You will say...Red, these actually happen~But, my point is this: many such hypothetical questions can be given, and when they are, they almost always occur among UNBELIEVERS, not believers. We live by a higher standard of righteousness than the world. God has spoken to us that he hates the putting away of our spouses and has given US certain laws to governed our lives by. There are exceptions where one can put away his spouse and be FREE to remarry, but it is limited ONLY to fornication. Fornication takes in many sexual sins, and sexual sins only. God DOES permit separation but ONLY for the chance of repentance and reconciliation.
Quote
What is to be done when a man just up and abandons a woman?
NOT a ground for remarriage. If anyone desires to go to 1st Corinthians 7 then I would be happy to consider what Paul meant, it is not difficult to see and understand.
Quote

What happens when a man steals from you and your family, and fakes a robbery in your house to take jewelry and money to finance his lifestyle, away from her... while letting the insurance company handle things?

(That happened to a cousin of mine)

What happens when a wife (bipolar) causes a husband to be arrested and taken to jail under the claim that he beat
his children unmercifully and had the youngest boy tell the police that was true that his dad beat him.... when in fact the husband never even spanked the kids for correction?

(This was my cousin)

What would you do sajang?

Yes the Holy Bible is the inerrant word of God.

But God does not address these travesties in His book. At least not in the limited portion that the church uses for Canon.

So.... I ask again... what would you do?  Stay married because you have been joined as one to continue to get the abuse? 
You leave and separate yourself from such people. But, dear soul, these very seldom, if ever happens with true believers, these things are what the world are living in. If one does separate and remarry it NOT an unpardonable sin. John 5 and the woman at the well, proves this point.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 03, 2017 - 08:02:05 by RB »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #13 on: Mon Apr 03, 2017 - 07:29:17 »
What is to be done when a husband literally pushes a pregnant woman down the stairs?

What is to be done when a husband physically beats his wife to the point of her having bruises so bad that she had
to lie about what happened to those who say her and them?

(These actually happened to 2 of my friends)

What is to be done when a man severely beats his children?

What is to be done when you find out the man you married has actually been a murderer?

What is to be done when a man will not provide enough or support his family because all he does is spend money
on gambling and end up filing for bankruptcy, and he refuses to change?

What is to be done when he is so hooked on drugs and alcohol and again refuses to do anything about that?

(That happened to my aunt. The embarrassment the man caused was unreal)


Greetings Rella, these are all hypotheticl questions and if such things do indeed happen (I believe what you said) then they do not generally ever happen to Christians. I say that for many reasons. I have found that most (Christians) use an higher standard to seek out a spouse....the word of God is our guide and instructor. Yes, anyone can be deceived and I know that~but the rule stands. You will say...Red, these actually happen~But, my point is this: many such hypothetical questions can be given, and when they are, they almost always occur among UNBELIEVERS, not believers. We live by a higher standard of righteousness than the world. God has spoken to us that he hates the putting away of our spouses and has given US certain laws to governed our lives by. There are exceptions where one can put away his spouse and be FREE to remarry, but it is limited ONLY to fornication. Fornication takes in many sexual sins, and sexual sins only. God DOES permit speration but ONLY for the chance of repentance and reconciliation.
Quote
What is to be done when a man just up and abandons a woman?
NOT a ground for remarriage. If anyone desires to go to 1st Corinthians 7 then I would be happy to consider what Paul meant, it is not difficult to see and understand.
Quote

What happens when a man steals from you and your family, and fakes a robbery in your house to take jewelry and money to finance his lifestyle, away from her... while letting the insurance company handle things?

(That happened to a cousin of mine)

What happens when a wife (bipolar) causes a husband to be arrested and taken to jail under the claim that he beat
his children unmercifully and had the youngest boy tell the police that was true that his dad beat him.... when in fact the husband never even spanked the kids for correction?

(This was my cousin)

What would you do sajang?

Yes the Holy Bible is the inerrant word of God.

But God does not address these travesties in His book. At least not in the limited portion that the church uses for Canon.

So.... I ask again... what would you do?  Stay married because you have been joined as one to continue to get the abuse? 
You leave and separate yourself from such people. But, dear soul, these very seldom, if ever happens with true believers, these things are what the world are living in. If one does separate and remarry it NOT an unpardonable sin. John 5 and the woman at the well, proves this point.
 

I know of 2 regular church going supposedly Christian husbands and fathers who sexually abused their own children. Abusers and cheaters are very good liars and manipulators.


 

Offline RB

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #14 on: Mon Apr 03, 2017 - 07:40:21 »
I know of 2 regular church going supposedly Christian husbands and fathers who sexually abused their own children. Abusers and cheaters are very good liars and manipulators.
That falls under the sins of fornication~divorce the perverts and the innocent party are free to remarry, and not be living in adultery. These are tares among the wheat.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 03, 2017 - 07:58:50 by RB »

Offline sajang

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #15 on: Sat Jul 22, 2017 - 19:25:55 »
As the Law in any country in the World dictate not to go thru red light and there is a penalty for it. To me respect it, or get in trouble.
And the divine God has His Laws. Sorry the Law is The Law.

Offline trevans1977

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Re: Divorces
« Reply #16 on: Sun Sep 03, 2017 - 11:10:44 »
had written something, but really don't want to share it online
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 03, 2017 - 12:42:42 by trevans1977 »