Do you consider pornography to be adultery? Why or why not?

[JohnDB]

A house divided with competing goals cannot survive.

If one spouse is looking to their own wants & needs then the house is divided. Marriage is an exercise in giving. NOT about what the other one can do or is supposed to do for you.

What happens when marriage is all about giving is an intimacy that goes far beyond the physical (but includes that as well).

To look at pictures and fantasize about that other person totally destroys that fragile trust between the two principles in a marriage. 

[thislittlelight]

I don't know what has updated in your story thislittlelight.  The last thing you posted I think you said you were still mad at your husband.

Unfortunately, I don't think its a biblical reason to divorce. I think its a really bad spot that you are in uninterestedin your husband and he (probably but I'm not sure) still wants sex with you.

I've been in the place where my wife has no interest in anything physical and probably won't for months or years. A man's biggest relational need is totally gone even if any marriage issues were only 50 % his fault. I don't remember all the details of your story,but I remember it wad similar to mine and you husband was either emotionally abusive or close to it.

Despite your husbands issues its a terrible spot to be in. I've been there. I know you have been through a ton if hurt and pain and probably have wanted out or to give up for a long time if you haven't already.

A man's battle against porn is something many men fail at in our internet age. It's still wrong,but so easy to do. When dealing with huge marriage issues, mo sex lite, anger, loneliness, etc, a lot of men fail if they haven't already.

Unfortunately,marriage Is something where someone else's sin along with our own can lead to decades of unhappiness. Doing the right and Godly thing in the face of so much pain and hurt is a struggle every day. Especially if your spouse isn't interested in changing at the time.

I wish your story the best, that your find happiness, and may blessings overflow your life. Submit to God's will in your life. I'm not sure what that is, but apart from him, we are all lost. My story is looking up after 2 years of hard work and many low lows, 2 serious bought of depression with suicidal nagging thoughts,and being hurt more than I knew I could be for a long time. I have no idea if that's Gods plan,or my sin getting in the way of his,or when the sky will clear. Until the fight the good fight and do not tire from doing what is right(2 thesalonians 2:13). You are probably already a stronger woman than you knew. I pray God blessed you and you find happiness.

Hi anx.  Thanks for your words.  Things are basically the same--maybe a little bit better at the moment.  We'll see what the holidays entail because that's always a difficult time for me.  We spend a lot of time with his family around the holidays and that's what we usually argue about, so we'll see how it goes.

I started seeing a separate counselor by myself to deal with my depression/anger/lack of being able to forgive.  I've had more acceptance of the situation during the last few weeks, but I don't think that's a permanent change.  It's probably just a temporary feeling and as soon as there's another incident, I'll fall apart again.

Actually, TJW's post from a few weeks ago helped a lot where he gave the analogy of how if someone cuts off your arm, it will still hurt even if they're sorry, or you forgive them, or you know how much God loves you, etc.  I just hurt.

The question I posted was just more out of curiosity of what everyone else thinks about what seems to be a very common issue in Christian marriages.  I've been hopping around the internet a lot trying to gain some insight into my marriage, and porn is an issue that pops up time and time again.  I really was just curious since some stories involve spouses spending a lot of money on it, looking at it daily, refusing to stop and I just don't see how that's not adultery.  

My husband has looked at porn since before we were married.  I get it that he's more tempted now since I don't want to have sex very often.  He doesn't have an addiction, but he does look at it (I'm not sure how often), and did look at it even when we were newlyweds having sex more days than not.  As chosenone has said, I've always turned a blind eye, because his sin is not my sin, and I didn't want to cast stones when I have plenty of sin of my own, but perhaps that's the wrong attitude to have.  I plan to talk to my counselor about that at my next appointment.  

I'm not considering a divorce over this.  I do think that some spouses are justified seeking a divorce when porn is an extreme issue, but that's not the case in my marriage.  And I've never felt personally hurt when I've found that he's looked at it.  I don't like it because he's sinning, but for me, I just don't feel betrayed by it.  I feel much more betrayed by a lot of the other things he's done that don't involve anything sexual at all--like making promises and then not keeping them, or lying to me, or participating in conversation where I'm being slandered and called derogatory names.  If any amount of porn was grounds for divorce, and I chose to divorce over it, I would be using it as a "get out of jail free card" and not because I couldn't forgive it.  I'd really be divorcing over everything else, which I don't think is the right attitude at all.  So, for me, it's not an option, but I do think some spouses could and should divorce over it when it is an extreme issue.  

Thanks for checking in.  I appreciate it.    

[anx]

In my own story, my wife moved back in for 4 months,but had never really forgiven. She had been saying she was happy and them snapped. She moved back out and now 6 months later, we are doing a book(I don't want a divorce a 90 day plan) to write forgiveness letters.

Altogether, 2 separations and a year and a half, she is still having a very hard time getting past this. I wad never as bad as your husband,but she has been very hurt.

This separation has sucked and I wish it didn't happen,but she has had time to find happiness for herself and determine what she wants and find strength.

Anyways, I think you can forgive, but it would take serious work and God's hand on you both. I think it will take something like 1-2 years. Don't be in a rush or hard on yourself. It's human for big change to take a long time. Even with God's had directly on you and your heart, it won't be quick.

God has been on my life and the anxiety issues that I have had my entire adult life. I have had little or no anxiety issues for the first time in my life. However, 6 months ago I had suicidal thoughts and a ton of anxiety.

I hope you can find similar peace given time. Depression sucks. It helps long term healing though.

Blessings

[Loner]

You still have not backed up your theory with scripture...

I refer you to my post above. Since Jesus is the one who qualified His statement with the phrase "in his heart", then you are the one who needs scripture to back up your theory that it is more than a heart sin.

 

You can't give me a scripture because there is none!!
Can't you understand that these are not my words , the Lord has said it is adultery therefore it is adultery. whether it be in the heart or in the physical...why do find it so hard to grasp?

Solomon also said that "as a man thinks, so is he" Prov 23:7
All sin comes from the heart. The Lord tells us in Jer 17 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Loner]

In my own story, my wife moved back in for 4 months,but had never really forgiven. She had been saying she was happy and them snapped. She moved back out and now 6 months later, we are doing a book(I don't want a divorce a 90 day plan) to write forgiveness letters.

Altogether, 2 separations and a year and a half, she is still having a very hard time getting past this. I wad never as bad as your husband,but she has been very hurt.

This separation has sucked and I wish it didn't happen,but she has had time to find happiness for herself and determine what she wants and find strength.

Anyways, I think you can forgive, but it would take serious work and God's hand on you both. I think it will take something like 1-2 years. Don't be in a rush or hard on yourself. It's human for big change to take a long time. Even with God's had directly on you and your heart, it won't be quick.

God has been on my life and the anxiety issues that I have had my entire adult life. I have had little or no anxiety issues for the first time in my life. However, 6 months ago I had suicidal thoughts and a ton of anxiety.

I hope you can find similar peace given time. Depression sucks. It helps long term healing though.

Blessings

anx..I'm so glad you have found peace now..lean on the Lord and you will find that He really is the One who heals the broken hearted...one day even the scars will be gone.

[thislittlelight]

In my own story, my wife moved back in for 4 months,but had never really forgiven. She had been saying she was happy and them snapped. She moved back out and now 6 months later, we are doing a book(I don't want a divorce a 90 day plan) to write forgiveness letters.

Altogether, 2 separations and a year and a half, she is still having a very hard time getting past this. I wad never as bad as your husband,but she has been very hurt.

This separation has sucked and I wish it didn't happen,but she has had time to find happiness for herself and determine what she wants and find strength.

Anyways, I think you can forgive, but it would take serious work and God's hand on you both. I think it will take something like 1-2 years. Don't be in a rush or hard on yourself. It's human for big change to take a long time. Even with God's had directly on you and your heart, it won't be quick.

God has been on my life and the anxiety issues that I have had my entire adult life. I have had little or no anxiety issues for the first time in my life. However, 6 months ago I had suicidal thoughts and a ton of anxiety.

I hope you can find similar peace given time. Depression sucks. It helps long term healing though.

Blessings

I'm so glad for you that things are looking up and that your wife is working on things as well.  I'd been wondering if there were any changes in your situation.  I usually lurk here even if I'm not posting.

God has worked through your situation and you've been so helpful to so many posters (including me).  I hope things continue to get better for you and your wife. 

[drspinko]

You still have not backed up your theory with scripture...

I refer you to my post above. Since Jesus is the one who qualified His statement with the phrase "in his heart", then you are the one who needs scripture to back up your theory that it is more than a heart sin.

 

You can't give me a scripture because there is none!!
Can't you understand that these are not my words , the Lord has said it is adultery therefore it is adultery. whether it be in the heart or in the physical...why do find it so hard to grasp?

Solomon also said that "as a man thinks, so is he" Prov 23:7
All sin comes from the heart. The Lord tells us in Jer 17 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Ok, so have you ever been angry with someone? Then you are a murderer. Shall we all the police to have you arrested? 

[HRoberson]

Perhaps we should start by asking, "Why is adultery a sin in the first place?"

 You could ask God that one, He said it was sin.

You didn't understand my post. If we understood why adultery is a sin, we would not have three pages of discussion on this question.

[tryingishard]

I believe it's adultery and if not stopped it is a reason to divorce. Anymore you don't even have to look up pornography to find it on the internet. My husband frequents different forums for his business some times to get info on a job he may be doing and alot of the times people will post random pornographic pics, nudity, ect or even for their avatar photo, I think it's wrong but it comes up ALL the time. I have a hard time with that because all though he says he's not interested in it, he still see's it and it's there, he says he's clicks out when he notices them but sometimes seems hard to believe. I can't help but wonder what he is thinking, I'll never know what's in his heart, only God does. It's hard, but we are a recovered marriage of infidelity on his part.

[SunSpot]

But there is a major difference between someone viewing those impersonal images, and another person who goes out and shares the most initmate parts of their body, mind, emotions and passions with another person.

Really?  Do you actually believe that everyone committing adultery is sharing their mind with the other person?

[Memphis Dwight]

Well considering how the definition of adultery has changed over time, it behooves us to look at Christ's word in their original context. 

Back then, adultery involved a married woman with any man other than her husband. Nowadays, we say that adultery is when either a married woman OR A MARRIED man sleeps with someone other than his or her spouse. 

if we go by the original definition and we look at the original greek words, we learn that the greek word for which we get "LUST" we see that it is the same greek word for which we get "COVET" , and the word that was behind WOMAN is the same exact word for WIFE. 

This changes things quite a bit.  The original understanding might go something like this, pay close attention:

Matt 5:27-28
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not sleep with another man's wife:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a wife (another man's) coveting her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Christ's point then would be that by breaking the commandment about not coveting, one is already en route to breaking the other commandments. 

I have much sympathy for men whose christian wives have this belief that it is permissible for them to withhold sex and at the same time tell their husbands that they aren't even allowed sexual fantasy.

[DaveW]

I have much sympathy for men whose christian wives have this belief that it is permissible for them to withhold sex and at the same time tell their husbands that they aren't even allowed sexual fantasy.

That is part of what happened when christianity became westernized, leaving behind the Jewish cultural understanding.

The whole Jewish culture was (at that time) understanding sex like this: It is a wife's right and a husband's responsibility. It was assumed he was the limiter so the Mishnah (completed circa 200 ad to preserve Jewish understanding of the 2nd temple period) gave a list of MINIMUM frequency the husband was to provide sexual satisfaction to his wife depending on his profession.  For those who did not travel and did not have hard physical labor it was DAILY. (unemployed also was daily) Wives who had husbands in demanding occupations with a lower minimum could (and did) sue in rabbinic court to force him to change professions to one that gave her more frequency.

THAT was the cultural view and understanding of the NT authors. The women were who needed it all the time, not the men.

I would take the current reversal of that norm to be cultural.

[Memphis Dwight]

I can tell you have an extensive background of research into Judaism and early Christianity.    Keep spreading this education around. Believe me when I say it is not going unappreciated. 

[happypromises]

I think that yes, it is.  Speaking as someone who is seperated because my husband had an addiction to bisexual porn.   

I have known he has had this issue in his life for some time but here's the problem...while porn in itself may not bother some people, looking at porn almost DEMANDS to be shared.   People look at it and they want more and they want to talk about it...and this can then lead to chat rooms and the like....and it's not a huge step away from that, to real-life hook-ups.   This stuff grows and is like a cancer, it cannot be kept under control if left untreated. 

For us, it undoubtedly affected our intimacy.  We'd be doing great...having amazing sex and feeling SO close to each other and then he would 'fall' and I would know we were in trouble, because, to put it bluntly, he couldn't, well, 'sustain' things and I would lie there wondering what I did wrong or if he was falling out of love with me. 

He'd say no, he was tired, that this happened sometimes and it would be fine in the morning....but it never really was.   We'd recover but then he'd fall again....and eventually, I realised that his 'first love' wasn't me.  He had images in his head that now 'did' it for him, more than I ever could.    And because he'd been fed a lie about glamorous people, with no strings attached, I'd never really match up.    Imagine what THAT does to a marriage?    If that's not adultery...I do not know what is!

[gracey71]

I mostly lurk on these forums but I had to post after reading this thread. I am involved in a christian recovery program and I can tell you without a doubt porn destroys people and marriages. It is addicting and just like any addiction it can grow, It may start with pictures, and once the thrill of that is gone, it leads to maturb*tion. After a while that isn't enough either and chat rooms start. That thrill wears off too and before you know it affairs begin. Just like a drug, sex gives them a high. But as time goes on they need more and more to get the same results. It not only destroys men but thier spouse. They suffer from low self worth and depression, wondering what they have done wrong or why thier spuse isn't interested in them anymore. So just like drugs, it can and does destroy entire families. I've seen it happen.