Author Topic: engaged couples living together  (Read 17080 times)

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Offline topher

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engaged couples living together
« on: Mon Nov 27, 2006 - 20:48:19 »
is it wrong from a Biblical standpoint?

My fiance and I are worried.  I'm graduating college in a few weeks and have a possible job lead in nyc.  if i get the job, i'd have to move away and that means a long distance relationship.  Also, if i move to nyc, i most certianly wont beable to afford a place on my own.  so she and i are contemplating moving together.  Since we're already engaged and will be married by the summer, we figure it wouldnt be a bad idea.  Her dad says thats a good idea and that we should go for it , but my folks are against it.  what should we do?

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engaged couples living together
« on: Mon Nov 27, 2006 - 20:48:19 »

Offline spurly

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #1 on: Mon Nov 27, 2006 - 20:52:10 »
Yep.  It is wrong from a Biblical standpoint.  I would suggest just going ahead and getting married.  Find a local justice of the peace or the preacher at your church.  Then, if you want a big reception or ceremony later, go for it, but at least you will doing the right thing in the eyes of the Lord, and that is what really counts.

Offline topher

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #2 on: Mon Nov 27, 2006 - 20:55:03 »
 any scripture reference?

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #2 on: Mon Nov 27, 2006 - 20:55:03 »

Offline topher

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #3 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 00:49:42 »
Currently, I'm living with some friends while I finish schooling (i graduate with my BS in december).  She lives with her dad about an hour away. 

I've tried looking around to see if any friends could room with me if/when I head off to nyc, but noone wants to.  I'm all alone on that front.  And the idea of getting a complete stranger to room with me is something I will NOT go through again (when I first moved to college I had an aweful experience with roommates turning out to be either druggies, transvestites, or both). 

We are very much in love.  We met when I first started school and became instant best friends.  Through that friendship, I saw her come to Christ and we fell in love.  It has been a beautiful and harmonious relationship from the very being of our friendship to this very moment.  Sure, we've had our ups and downs, but its only made us a stronger couple.  There is no doubt in our minds that the Lord brought us together, and that He will see us through. 

Its just a matter of how the next year is going to play out. 

If I go to NYC, and somehow find a place I can afford on my own, that means we will be 3 states apart.  But its not just me that needs a job, her own career field is stationed in NYC as well, so it would make sense that we combine forces, if we both were planning on moving to NYC and need help paying rent. 

Getting married sooner isnt an option (we want it to be perfect).  I really would like some actual scripture concerning the topic, but I myslef can't find any, and noone else I talk to can either.  Any help on that would be great.

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #3 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 00:49:42 »

Offline janine

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #4 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 04:52:06 »
::alert:: {warning: possible sarcasm ahead} ::alert::

If you want it to be fairy-tale perfect, then do not live together before you get married.  Period.

That would not be fairy-tale perfect.

Mary and Joseph (you know, the folks who headed up Jesus' household?) were together -- traveling  together for many days and nights, at least, if not actually keeping house together -- before they were actually married with a ceremony.

But, as best as I can tell, the way folks did marriages and weddings in that time and place, her being his "espoused wife" meant she got at least some widow-priviledges if Joseph died before they got the wedding ceremony out of the way.

Remember he was thinking about "putting her away" quietly?  You can find posts on these boards discussing whether or not that phrase means the same as "divorce" -- but it certainly implies some sort of legal connection to be cut apart.

In older Bible times it looks to me like getting married was no big deal -- at least once you stole your bride or your parents convinced her family to give the woman to you -- the couple just moved in together.  Bam!, they were instantly married.  'Course here and now states have laws about what it means to be married -- versus what it means to shack up -- versus what it means to be a roommate.

So what you want is to have the benefits of being a married couple -- that is, you want to be able to share housing, expenses, etc., without anyone raising an eyebrow -- but yet you want to not have the wedding until some future date when you two have planned some sort of fancy ceremony, your very own big Hollywood/Broadway production number, with flowers and ringbearers and attendants and matching ugly bridesmaids' dresses and a big reception afterward costing all sorts of money?

My, my, you do want it all, don't you?

1 Corinthians 7:9  "But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

That's one way to handle it.  Like Spurly said, just make it legal before you move in together.  (That way, there's no "appearance of evil", as well, as mentioned above.)  That way, you won't find yourself having to spend all your spare time before the wedding NOT doing the Horizontal Dance.  And if it is not a grand passion that makes you want to marry -- if the temptation seems not all that big a deal -- why the heck are you marrying anyway?

Here's a good idea -- use a concordance and look up all the "marry" scriptures, the "husband" and "wife" scriptures, and see if you can put together a Bible support for being platonic buddy roommates with the love of your life.  Don't come to a Christian website expecting people to supply you with prooftexts that make it alright to move in together for that year then have a wedding ceremony.

Try to transfer that image of the "perfect" wedding y'all have in your dear little young minds, into the idea of a "perfect", treasuring, honoring, uplifting, special life together.   It's the MARRIAGE that you need to take such special care of, babe, it's the beginning of your two lives melding into one that needs such "perfect" status, it's the day your set foot into an apartment or a house you both lease/rent/own and set up housekeeping that needs your meticulous special care -- not the day you dress up in a tux and perform like a trained seal, answering "I do" or "I will" on command.

If I didn't care about the concept of marriage in general and if I didn't care about you two as adults trying to live a Christian life as a couple,  I would say "What do you care what people think?  Live together, go on, do it now."

But then, too -- if you guys set up house together for all those months before the wedding ceremony, will the people who come to the wedding think the special ceremony, the event, is all that "perfect"?

Or will some of them perhaps be thinking "Geez, it's about time they got married, after living together and all.  I wonder if they're still virgins?  It's kind of an anticlimax, having all this fancy wedding business after they've been living together.  Why did they bother?  I feel stupid (cheated, taken advantage of) for getting them that wedding gift.  Since they've been living together all this time they probably have that item already..."

::alert:: {end sarcasm warning} ::alert::

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #4 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 04:52:06 »



Offline spurly

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #5 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 06:32:10 »
1 Thessalonians 4 would be a good place to start as well when looking for Scriptures for this topic.  Here is what it says:

"Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.  For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.  It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit."


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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #5 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 06:32:10 »

Offline spurly

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #6 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 06:36:22 »
Here is something I wrote on another thread concerning this subject:

Often teenagers look at the Bible, and they see no real correlation between the methods of dating and picking a mate today, and for good reason.  Marriages then were arranged.  When they don't see wedding ceremonies followed by a honeymoon, and instead just encounter people consummating a marriage and becoming married, they get confused.

They ask questions like "if we are engaged to get married, what is wrong with us going ahead and having sex", etc.

I had to deal with that question before leaving my last ministry.  I wish I would have had this bit of insight from R.W. Orr that I read today while preparing for a lesson on Song of Solomon:

Quote
“The choosing of a suitable partner was always considered to be the responsibility of parents.  No doubt the entreaties of love-struck youth sometimes guided the process, but that was only the occasional triumph of nature over social convention.  Courtship as we know it did not exist.  An arranged marriage generally took place when the boy was in his late teens, and the girl a little younger. 

The giving of the groom's family of the “mohar” - more happily called the bride-gift rather than the bride price – and its acceptance by the bride's parents formally constituted an indissoluble alliance between the two families and their children.  This differs from modern engagement in that this was the 'point of no return' (F.F. Bruce); it awaited only the festive bringing home of the bride to make the marriage fully effective.  If we call the first stage 'betrothal', and the second 'marriage', we still have to remember that the betrothed pair were irrevocably committed to each other.  The degree of intimacy considered quite proper for them would not be appropriate for a Christian engaged couple today under our present conditions.

When we look at our customs and their, we aren't comparing apples to apples.  It's more like comparing prunes to grapefruit. 

Just thought I would share this with you.

Offline spurly

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #7 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 06:37:27 »
By the way, topher, getting married before you go to New York is an option.  That might just be the "perfect" way to take care of this problem. 

Offline mandalee65

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #8 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 07:07:27 »
Living together before you're married is kind of like eating the fruit before it's fully ripened. It leaves a bitter taste in your mouth and you never get to fully enjoy the real thing.

I think you know the right thing to do. I suspect that you're trying to rationalize the easy solution. Please believe me when I say it may be easy now, but the ramifications will eventually make you wish you hadn't.

You know what the Bible has to say about fornication, and the others have quoted verses about avoiding even the appearance of evil. Do the right thing. It may not be the easy thing, but you will be glad you did.

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #8 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 07:07:27 »

Offline seekr

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #9 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 11:45:35 »
Quote
"Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.  For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.  It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit."

I am sorry but this does not apply here. What is "sexual immorality"? I do not believe it is the text book version. If love is the law and they are following that then "everything is permissable". Is this about "passionate lust" or is it about love? Why do we live to please the religious? is that what God cares about? Our example to others is about showing love and that includes taking care of one another and being able to live together as this world has made it near impossible to afford other luxuries, unless we are wealthy. If they want to go ahead and look respectable so others won't get all shook up, then marry and do what others dictate that God may not necessarily say o do.

I like that Janine pointed out about Mary and Jospeh travelling together. They could not afford to live apart and ended up in a stable. I am sure others looked at them as evil as Joseph felt some shame in how it looked, not in what it was. There are always someone who wants to judge others by appearance sake. Why does a piece of paper make the difference if it is sin or not? God's love is the rule for living and their engagement may mean they are married before God already. It is His call. God's love always overrides the government regulations if they go against that love that He instilled in us. And what if they already are having sex? Are they going to live in regret the rest of their lives? I am so glad God has more mercy than the religious.

seekr

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #10 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 12:46:58 »
My first thought was "if it was good enough for the mother and step-father of Christ (Mary and Joseph), then it's good enough for you and me."

On the other hand, we live in a different culture, one that views "live in couples" as either totally cool.... or totally sinful.  Odd mix there.

I think Spurly and janine give good advice, and if it was me, I'd just get married and blow the cash on a European honeymonn, skip the big wedding altogether.  Of couse, look who's talkin' -- I married my high-school sweetie in a whirlwind ceremony with only 14 guests and a store-bought cake, no fancy nuthin' but our love, love, love.

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #11 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 14:37:02 »
is it wrong from a Biblical standpoint?

My fiance and I are worried.  I'm graduating college in a few weeks and have a possible job lead in nyc.  if i get the job, i'd have to move away and that means a long distance relationship.  Also, if i move to nyc, i most certianly wont beable to afford a place on my own.  so she and i are contemplating moving together.  Since we're already engaged and will be married by the summer, we figure it wouldnt be a bad idea.  Her dad says thats a good idea and that we should go for it , but my folks are against it.  what should we do?

In answer to the title question: No, and yes.

Marriage is about commitment, being joined together, not explicitly about what one's society declares marriage to be. So, committing yourselves to each other is the requirement, not "getting married." From this perspective, committing yourselves to each other is not wrong Biblically.

However, as Christians and children, we are called to 1) not look like a bunch of heathens, living our lives in as much an upright manner as possible; and 2) honor our parents. From this perspective, there may well be something unBiblical about living together.

And now to address the question at the end of your post:

Nobody on this list can answer that question for you since we don't have a clue about your real committment to each other, how much angst your parents might really have, or a host of other variables.

Having said that, some folks have made some pretty good observations about propriety, the value (or lack thereof) of living together before marriage, and a couple other points.

I think if you were my son, and you and she had dated for several years, and I was relatively certain that you were going to stay together, I'd say go ahead. However, if she were my daughter, and even if you had dated for several years, I'd question the plan and wonder why you don't just get married now - and have the blow-out ceremony next year.

So, there you have it....

Offline janine

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #12 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 19:37:44 »
Of course my bias against big expensive blow-out fancy hair-yanking-out overdemanding bride weddings is showing...

Offline topher

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #13 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 19:53:44 »
i thank you all for your input.  I apologize if my posting may seem like I am attempting to justify my own desires.  I am simply trying to find out as much as I can.  I want to do the right thing.  As I said in an earlier post, I'm sure God will take care of us in the days ahead.

As far as commitment goes, we are totally committed to one another.  Our engagement has been talked about and discussed for months leading up to my actual proposal.  We live for God and our days are spent together, sharing that love.  If not for the fact that we both need to move away for our careers and cannot afford it on our own, this would not be an issue.  We want to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord, and yet, the future gives us this seemingly only option and we want to find out what the cut-and-dry verdict is.   

To clarify, some of you beleive the Bible says only marriage is the way to sinlessly live together, and some of you say the Bible shows "engaged" (using our culture's terms) couples may do so?  The conflicting ideas don't really give me much hope, however thankful I am for them.  I guess that is why I am looking for actual scripture that forbides it, since sexual impurity isnt the issue for us; that is a very clear and direct law that we follow, our minds and hearts embracing eachother is our "love-making" if you will until marrige.

Thank you all for your time and thoughts, please pray for God to open a door in our lives to figure this situation out.

Offline spurly

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #14 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 19:58:31 »
Topher, why can't you just get married before moving to New York?  What is standing in the way of marriage?

Offline topher

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #15 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 20:07:19 »
Finances and time.  There are only a few short weeks before the move to NYC.  I personally have no money (i would have to get an advance just to pay half of the $ to get an apartment) since I've been a full time student with a part-time job.  And I would hate the thought of our wedding being a quick stop to the justice of the peace, she deserves more than that...

Offline spurly

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #16 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 20:09:24 »
There are many marriages that begin with a quick stop to the justice of the peace.  As a matter of fact some of the best marriages I know of began that way. 

In my opinion she deserves better than to have others think she is compromising her values and her relationship with God because of a lack of money.  Even poor people can make godly decisions.

Offline janine

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #17 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 20:21:26 »
Your church will take up a collection to pay for the marriage license and the JP if you can't afford it. 

If they won't they're not much of a congregation.

Are you two going to spend the rest of your lives together always hitting awkward points because you cannot afford the specific ultra-special perfect exact thing you want, when you need it?

Offline mandalee65

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #18 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 22:20:41 »
I've known people who've pulled off entire weddings - cake, dress and all - for $500 or less. I really admire you for wanting her to have her big wedding. It was certainly a part of my little personal fairy tale.

Have you considered doing the JP thing and then having a "real" ceremony later? You wouldn't be the first couple to do that.

Offline mandalee65

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #19 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 22:26:24 »
Something else to consider. An engagement in Joseph and Mary's time was a lot different than in our day. It was legally binding. Even though they were engaged, Joseph would have to divorce her to break it up. Today it just isn't like that.

This is one of those cases where the Bible doesn't come out and say something is wrong. (Kind of like with drug abuse & internet pornography). You have to put together the principles and see what makes sense.

Here's a link to a Focus on the Family site that I think you may find very helpful in all this.
Living Together.

I'll be praying for both of you.

Oh, and in case nobody has said it already - congratulations on your engagement!

Offline topher

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #20 on: Tue Nov 28, 2006 - 23:19:14 »
lol, no you're the first.  thank you very much!  :)

Offline EruditeJoy

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #21 on: Wed Nov 29, 2006 - 19:39:25 »
I can add nothing to what has already been said, Topher; only that I will be praying for you both!   ::prayinghard::

Congratulations on your engagement and soon-to-be wedding!

EJ

Offline seekr

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #22 on: Thu Nov 30, 2006 - 00:35:22 »
I think it is a very good thing to want a nice wedding for your spouse. It shows love and caring and no matter what anyone says that IS important. to just slam down the money to get married so others will be pleased with how it looks is wrong. You need to folow your heart and I thin you are doing that. It is not wrong to want something special for the one you love. God gave us gifts all through the bible and there were love feasts and celebrations.

seekr

Offline Serenity432001

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #23 on: Thu Nov 30, 2006 - 06:41:25 »
I may be missing something but its not wrong if they aren't sleeping together and if they are sleeping together than whats the difference.   Are we saying we don't want to do this just because of looks?

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #24 on: Thu Nov 30, 2006 - 06:44:18 »
I may be missing something but its not wrong if they aren't sleeping together and if they are sleeping together than whats the difference.   Are we saying we don't want to do this just because of looks?

Ok.  You have two people who are engaged.  Obviously, they love each other and are sexually attracted to each other.

And to live together before marriage?

That is a recipe for pre-marital sex if there isn't any relations as of now.

Offline Serenity432001

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #25 on: Thu Nov 30, 2006 - 06:58:36 »
That makes sense.  I've seen some who think pre-marital sex is not as bad if you're not living together and to me that really makes no difference.

Offline mandalee65

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #26 on: Thu Nov 30, 2006 - 06:59:14 »
Gary has a good point. Why put yourself in a situation where you will have constant, strong temptation?

I don't care how self-controlled a person is, that would be a difficult temptation to avoid.

Offline spurly

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #27 on: Thu Nov 30, 2006 - 15:28:25 »
That makes sense.  I've seen some who think pre-marital sex is not as bad if you're not living together and to me that really makes no difference.

People really think that?  Sad.

Offline Serenity432001

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #28 on: Thu Nov 30, 2006 - 15:58:17 »
That makes sense.  I've seen some who think pre-marital sex is not as bad if you're not living together and to me that really makes no difference.

People really think that?  Sad.

I may be judging but it seems that way to me.  I mean take a girl that gets pregnant---people tend to react more to that then if she were just having sex but didn't get pregnat.   It's those kind of situations where some of us do still tend to care more about "what it looks like" then what it really is.   This is just my opinion btw.

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #29 on: Fri Dec 01, 2006 - 14:16:26 »
I had an aweful experience with roommates turning out to be either druggies, transvestites, or both. 


Didn't the Druggie Transvestites open for the Stones on one their tours?

Offline WileyClarkson

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #30 on: Fri Dec 01, 2006 - 18:09:30 »
Quote
Quote
  so she and i are contemplating moving together.  Since we're already engaged and will be married by the summer, we figure it wouldnt be a bad idea.  Her dad says thats a good idea and that we should go for it , but my folks are against it.  what should we do?
 
I may be missing something but its not wrong if they aren't sleeping together and if they are sleeping together than whats the difference.   Are we saying we don't want to do this just because of looks?

Here's my thoughts on this.

1)  It would not be wrong to live together as in a platonic relationship.
2)  however, it is extremly difficult for members of the opposit sex to do this when in bedrooms next to each other because it will usually become more than platonic given the slightest nudge.  The hormonal urge will override in common sense!
3)  The fact that you are staying together in the same apartment, even though the two of you are strictly celebate, will have everyone in any church you attend talking and that will put a blot on your fiancee's reputation, even if you presented the church with a signed medical affidavit that she was a verifiable virgin when you and her repeat your vows and that is something I would not want to do to my future wife
4)  And if the celebacy thing did fall through, which I would say there's a better than average possibility of that happening in a six month period together, and a pregnancy did occur, then the small fire of talk would become a raging forest fire and consume the both of you which would really hurt your chances of a "perfect marriage" etc.
5)  I can name alot more reasons but won't.

Regardless of your financial situation, this is not a good idea.  Satan is out there just waiting for this type of situation.  Let her live at her father's house and you go find someone to live with where ever you find a job until you can make the proper arrangements and have a proper wedding.  Believe me, you will be much happier if you do this and your marriage will be much stronger for it.  Her dad is a fruit cake if he is pushing her into living with you!  If anything it should be "Absolutely NOT!" coming from his lips!  I am a father of three grown daughters and I garrantee you if you were engaged to one of my daughters, we would be having an even stronger talk that what I can put on this list.  If you think a hell fire and damnation sermon from the pulpit would be something, let someone suggest that to me about one of my daughters!  ::taz::

If your love for each other is strong, six months will fly by and you will be married and be really happy you didn't go the live together route!

I wish you the God's blessings on your future marriage.

Offline topher

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #31 on: Tue Dec 05, 2006 - 18:49:10 »
first off, LOVE the avatar, Wiley. 

Second, I too am surprised by her father's position.  He and I recently had a talk concerning it, and I asked him why he thinks it would be a good idea.  He and his wife (my fiance's mother) divorced when she was a very little.  He said they felt the reason their marriage crumbled was due to NOT living together before they were married; that upon being married it was too much of a shock.  He said he hopes for the best for us and that if we move in together prior to the wedding, and we find we arent compatible, then the hypothetical break up would be far less in damages and baggage as opposed to being married and getting a divorce.  He also brought up a good point which leads me to my "third off" lol:

With this issue, as well as most issues in life, there will always be people who talk.  There will always be gossip, and if one allows that "threat" of gossip to run their lives, it isnt healthy.  Sure, you should care about what those close to you think, like friends and family.  But ultimatly, what people (and i emphasize "people") think should not control your life.  As it presently stands, we do not attend any one church all the time.  I prefer smaller, more humble churches, as opposed to the large, grandoise, "look how big our steeple is!" churches.  I have grown up in churches that worship in schools, rented out gyms and the like, so that is where I can easily be comfertable and enjoy my time with God.  Unfortunatly, here in the city, those types of churches are few and far between.  But she and I are looking.  And speaking of churches, why is it that the very ones who are supposed to be nonjudgemental/conspiratorial are the very ones who gossip and are the quickest to judge?  but that may be a topic for another thread.  The point is, I suppose, that we do not quake at the thought of what others might think.  We know what is in our hearts and minds, others do not, ergo their whispered judgements we pay no heed, but that goes for most things, not just the topic at hand.


Offline topher

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #32 on: Tue Dec 05, 2006 - 18:54:57 »
I had an aweful experience with roommates turning out to be either druggies, transvestites, or both. 


Didn't the Druggie Transvestites open for the Stones on one their tours?

ha!  you know, I'm not entirely sure.  Sounds like a heckuva show tho.   ::smile::

Offline janine

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #33 on: Tue Dec 05, 2006 - 23:11:22 »
If you don't care what others think why bother to ask your questions here?

Offline topher

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Re: engaged couples living together
« Reply #34 on: Wed Dec 06, 2006 - 11:58:47 »
If you don't care what others think why bother to ask your questions here?

asking for advice is different from worrying about what people say behind your back.

 

     
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