Author Topic: Is it really "natural" for men to notice other women, or am I not good enough?  (Read 32659 times)

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Offline ChristianGirl80

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I am really praying that both men and women can give me some advice and help so that I can get past this issue I am having and be happy in my relationship.  I have finally met a really great christian guy, and in every way has proven to me what a wonderful person he is.  I have prayed and prayed about this relationship, making sure that it is God's will.  I have never had anyone treat me the way he has, and he makes me want to be a better person, a stonger Christian, and makes me want to be the best I can for him also.  We have dated now for about a year, and instead of the great qualities going away or fading, it all just gets better.  He has started to talk about marriage, and how he knows he could never find anyone like me, and he feels as if I am the one God has chosen for him.  I believe all of that, and I need to work through some things that have hurt me in the past that make me insecure in this relationship.  Before him, I allowed myself to be treated less than great, and was cheated on by numerous occasions.  2 1/2 years ago I brokeup with someone I was with for 5 years because he cheated on me.  I have no question in my mind that the man I am with now would ever cheat.  It doesnt even worry me, he was cheated on before he met me, and I know without a doubt he would never do that.  However I think because of what I went through previously I am very insecure about certain things.  The guy who cheated on me constantly looked at other women, even right in front of me and would say things sometimes about them.  I never felt good enough.  This happened in other relationships, and now I have this horrible issue where I can't get past that.  I have a really hard time accepting that it is natural for men to notice other women.  I have read and been told that men and women are just different in that way.  I am so happy and content in the relationship I am in that I do not notice other good looking men throughout the day.  I really cant remember the last time I thought anythign like that to myself (except about my boyfriend)  Somehow because of a sermon at church we got on this subject one day and I asked him if he looked at other women.  He has never had an interest in mens magazines, he said he's always known they were wrong, and he said he's always known it was wrong to look at women lustfully, like they were a piece of meat.  He said he felt this way even when he was single.  But he said that he can't help but notice an attractive woman, not that he goes looking for them, but if there is one right in front of him its like a reaction just to notice.  He said he doesnt dwell on it or let his thoughts go anywhere else, but noticing them happens before he can even think about it.  He said sometimes he does a double take, and he thinks thats a natural reaction also.  He said he would never do anything, and he has no desire to do anything because he knows what he has with me, and nothing could compare to that, and that no matter what I will always be more beautiful to him than anyone else.  But just because he finds me beautiful doesnt mean he wont notice anyone else.  My problem is, if he is so happy with me, why would he even be on the lookout for other attractive women?  I see people all the same, just as people.  If I were single and looking for someone I would definitely take notice, but being that I am very happy and content with him, I am oblivious.  It makes me feel like I am not enough if he notices other women.  And I know in the bible in different places it speaks about a man not looking at other women.  It doesnt speak about women that way.  For instance, with Job and how he made a covenant to not lust after other women.  So obviously men are different in this way.  And we both read The Purpose Driven life together, there was a whole section about this and the temptations.  And it was directed towards men, and how being attracted to another woman is not a sin until you dwell on it and it becomes lust.  I just dont understand how men cant just be satisfied with what they have.  If you are looking it makes me think somewhere inside you must looking for something better.  And I dont understand how doing a double take is a natural reaction.  If you look once maybe, but when you look the second time that is your choice.  But he said that if he notices someone out of the corner of his eye he will look again and it happens before he realizes it.  He is one of the most honest people I know, and if he tried to lie about anything it would be so obvious.  So i know he is being honest about this and how he feels.  I just feel like if he is always noticing other people, he must not be completely happy with me, and one day he may find someone else who is better.  I know looks arent everything, but for men it is what starts the attraction and the desire to be with someone.  I guess I am having trouble accepting or understanding why  and how men are so different in this.  I wish I could understand why men dont have eyes only for their wife, but women do.  I would really appreciate any men who have input in this and who could maybe explain to me their side, and any woman who may have been through the same feelings and know how to get past it!

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Offline stevehut

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Newbie, I didn't even read more than a few lines of your post.  But here it is:

We are all sinners.  The only difference between one person and another, is which sins and how often and if you confess and repent afterward.

All men have the capacity to be unfaithful.  And so do you. Just about everyone who strays, once thought they were above it.

Mr. Wonderful has probably noticed a few sins in you as well.  Ask him about it.

He's a sinner, and so are you.  He will certainly mess up from time to time, and so will you.  Just accept it and move on.


Offline chosenone

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Christisn girl. I do understand how you feel. I am married, and have absolutely NO interest in any other man WHATSOEVER. We are told that man are wired differently, and none of us can help who we see walking towards us in the street, or who is at work or whatever. What we can help though, is that we don't stare, look twice, or deliberately watch a film or something on TV, or read a mag that has naked or semi naked people in.
My husband is very moral and has so much integrity. He cant help who is around him, and what they choose to wear, but he does do all he can not to stare, or look again, or to watch things that he knows will have women in it who aren't wearing much. If something comes on TV that he knows he shouldn't be seeing, he will close his eyes. He has even had to do this many times at churches in the past when a few of the women werent wearing much, and one even got baptised in a bikini! He closed his eyes or looked away,and I do love that about him. It can become a habit to "bounce the eyes" away when a women who a man is attracted to, or who isn't wearing much, walks by, but it takes practise.

It sounds as if your guy is trying hard, and doing well. Maybe he just needs to practise the 'not looking twice' thing.   I can totally understand that it hurts, many women feel the same and wonder if they are 'not good enough' or something. However it doesnt mean that he doesnt truly love you.
Its hard to know if it is something that is 'normal', or whether it is a result of the fall, but yes, it can be very hurtful especially if you have been cheated on before, as you will be extra sensitive. For a man to do what your previous boyfriend did, and stare and make comments in front of you, is cruel and totally disrespectful.
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 13:11:19 by chosenone »

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Offline Apothecary 4 Christ

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Sounds to me like you have found a good, honest man.  Yes, guys are more wired for visual temptations.  That is not to say that many women aren't also tempted in this way. 

I love watching my daughter play basketball.  I DO notice other good players on the floor...sometimes even from the opposing team!  It doesn't change the fact that I only LOVE her...and would not dream of taking any of the other players home to replace her.  She's my daughter.   She has my heart for life. 

I know.  Not a perfect illustration.  But just because a guy notices another woman who happens to be pretty does not mean he thinks anything less of you, or is any less committed to you.

Also, just as a man cannot "excuse" lust or improper behavior on the basis of his genetics...so a woman cannot excuse becoming "angry" or "distrustful" or "resentful" because she cannot understand this.  There can be sin both ways.

May the Lord truly bless your relationship in Jesus Christ,

Jason
 

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Offline ChristianGirl80

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@ChosenOne
Thank you so much for making me feel like you do understand, I am trying so hard to make sense of this on my own so that I dont cause him grief that he doesnt deserve.
and
Jason,  I really appreciate your honest answer, and I want youto know I am not angry or resentful towards him in anyway.  I know this is something that I need to deal with and its not his fault.  I am just trying to understand it so that I can move past it and not let it affect me.  Thats the reason I am here, and your response really helped a lot and makes me think.  I really do appreciate it.


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Offline Lively Stone

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A male's eye is a gateway. Christian men have to guard that gateway, and that starts with the double take. When a Christian man does a double take, he has already stepped into the trap.

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Offline Lively Stone

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Hiya Christiangirl80.  I just was reading your testimony and felt the need to register and pass along a little bit of wisdom from my many years of experience.  I too used to be jealous.  My husband had a strong libido when we got married some 35 years ago.  So when I got pregnant I just knew he would be looking at other women because I was not desiring to be intimate with him at that time.   Now we all know that God made men to be fertile their entire lives but thankfully us ladies only can have children till we're about 40 to 45 at the latest.  So men naturally are going to look around.  Don't matter if they are christians or heathens.  Because that is how God made them.  But it took me a while to figure that one out sister.  I thought I was supposed to keep him at home no matter what.  I felt like I was to be his boss and make sure nobody else slept with him.  but then I started actually reading my bible instead of just letting the pastors just tell me what was in there and I made some discoveries that made me a little uncomfortable at first.   But then I decided to let God's will have His way with me.  I said to myself, if the majority of the holy men of the bible were out there sowing their wild oats, why should I think it such a bad thing for the man of my life to do the same thing.  I then told my man, if you need to do this while I am pregnant, then please don't leave me for another.   And he never has left me for another and never would even though he has had a string of ladies on the side.   The fact that my man is virile makes me proud.   I don't want no wimpy man.  Do you feel me?   I am glad that God did not give me a man that I can control.  Its not in me to be a little harpie control freak as they say.  You got to just let it go and let God.  Remember, its us ladies that are called to be exlusive to our man, not the other way around.


It was up to your husband to remain true to his vows to you. God obviously means very little to him. I surely hope and pray he hasn't brought home disease to you, or produced any other children with other women in his randiness that you have allowed. You may not appreciate what you think is a 'wimpy man', but you are one wimpy, backbone-less woman.

I am proud of my man who has been faithful to me and has no eye problem either, for 35 years. He loves me as Christ loves His Church---sacrificially.

Would Jesus act like your husband? Is that true love? Let me answer that for you. No.

Offline Lively Stone

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Well you may say that but that is not how my husband and I reason.  I don't think that my man should be held accountable to standards that even the holy men of the bible were not held to and he has not stepped into any trap.   It is me that though God's help has stepped OUT of the trap of thinking I am his master.   We are so much happier ever since I decided to not try to control him any more.   He has always done his christian duty of providing for me instead of thinking that the government would be my husband (social security).  So you're entitled to your opinion but don't be judging my man by standards that even the men of the bible were not judged by sister.  Thanks you

You obviously are not familiar with the word of God or God Himself.

I think you need to give your head a shake if you think your marriage is happy and fulfilling. It is certainly not blessed by God with both of your attitudes. You have given up maybe out of fear, rather than make a stand. Do you believe you deserve to be treated badly?

The men of the Bible were judged for infidelity. Your husband will be also.

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It seems natural for me, but "self control" is one of the attributes of the Holy Spirit. The more I allow Him in the less likely I'll sin in that area. Post your picture and I'll be the judge if you are good enough...not really! geez! oink oink

Seriously though, if you are concerned about it maybe you should talk to your minister as a couple before you tie the knot.

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Offline Lively Stone

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Well you know what they say about opinions every body has them and they usually stink.  but no I do appreciate you weighing in with your bold font and all but my man and I do not need any teachings outside of the bible to judge us by.   Jesus never condemned the holy men of the bible and neither do we.   My man does his job of being a provider and protector and I do mine of being compliant and a good mother and wife.   And that is all God requires of husbands and wives.   Nowhere in the bible do it say for me to be a boss or lord over my man.

Opinion? God's word says ADULTERY is sin. So, you condone the sin in your marriage? The unholy acts against you?

You both are not following the Bible! God requires men to LOVE and HONOUR their wives! He requires FAITHFULNESS! ONE FLESH and all that! Have you accepted Jesus as your personal Saviour? Your Lord?

Without repentance there is no forgiveness for your husband's gross sin, nor your acceptance of it by your low standards for yourself and your  marriage.

I sincerely hope you have no children, for your marriage is not a Godly one, nor will it be forever, unless you both come to Jesus and follow after His ways. You will then discover the true joys of a happy, fulfilling marriage.

Offline Apothecary 4 Christ

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  You got to just let it go and let God.  Remember, its us ladies that are called to be exlusive to our man, not the other way around.

Oh my.   ::doh::


Offline Lively Stone

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It is truly amazing how some people will just judge and judge and judge and judge.   And then the bold font is really annoying.  Its scream I have a complex that I think no one will notice me if my words aren't bolded.  But look you don't have any bible to quote from to prove that my man is adultery for being with unmarried ladies now do you.  No you don't.  I didn't think so.  We are happy and faithful in the Lord not like some folks who let the pastor do all the bible researching for them.   My husband provides for me like the Lord tells him to and I am always ready to do what my man says of me to do.  That is the picture of marriage that Jesus paints for me in the bible.  It is not adultery for him to have other ladies if he is taking care of them and can provide for me as well that is fine and scriptural.  
But thanks for your unbiblical opinions.  Please make your font bigger because I can't read it well enough lively little stone.

Adultery is having sexual relations with another person while married. Your husband fits that bill.

Where is your Bible proof that what you are doing is of God?

What about:

Exodus 20:14
You shall not commit adultery.

Leviticus 20:10
‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

These alone should prick you in your spirit concerning its wickedness.

Happiness and faithfulness is elusive to those who deliberately walk their own path to destruction. You both are unfaithful to God. Your husband's provision is the very least he can do and if that is all you care about, then you have a problem in yourself. As far as your being happy thinking you must do what he tells you to do, you have no idea about the give and take of a loving marriage relationship.

In fact, I don't believe you are even real. I think you are trolling this thread and you are trying to hijack a perfectly good advice thread with filth.




Offline chosenone

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marlie both husbands and wives are told by God to be faithful. The Bible says to be faithful to the wife of your youth.Your husband has no morals and is committing serious sexual sins with women who he isn't married to, and you are enabling his appalling behaviour..
This nonsense that men need to look elsewhere because one women isn't enough is rubbish and totally unbiblical. Just because a woman is past child bearing years, doesn't mean that she cant have regular sex. We are on our mid 50's and have no intention of stopping for a long time.
You are also implying that a man cant possibly go without sex for short periods such as when a baby is born, like he is an animal who has no control over his lusts or something.Of course he can, and men do it all the time.

My husband is 100% faithful to me and I to him. Our marriage bed is not defiled by any other women or man.We promised to be faithful to each other and not to cheat. We arent faithful because some pastor told us to be (as you implied) but because that is what God says to do. My husband has been reading the BIble for 45 years, and what God says about marriage and faithfullness is pretty clear. Being a husband is far more that just providing for his wife. He is to love her as Christ loves the church, he is to be faithful to her and not sleep around with other women any more than wives should do to their husbands.It is your husband who makes up what God says, and not those men who obey God by being faithful, and keeping their promises to their wife, and keeping the marriage bed pure.

Paul says let each man have his own wife and let each women have her own husband. Adultery and fornication are very serious sins.  Even lusting after a women in his heart is adultery according to Jesus, how much more serious is the actual act.  
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 16:34:29 by chosenone »

Offline chosenone

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 Any woman who claims that a man who is virile HAS to have many women is totally deluded. To claim that a man who is faithful is 'wimpy' is appalling. They are the ones who are strong. It is the ones who sleep around who are the wimps. My husband is all man and yet he is 100% faithful. I would NEVER be intersted in a man who thought it was fine to sleep around, and then even have the cheek to say it was Biblical.

Offline chosenone

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ChristianGirl80 you be the judge for yourself.  People are saying things but they don't have sound bible teachings to back it up.   Yes the bible says do not commit adultery.  But that command does not define what adultery is.   Then another place that lively stone quotes is leviticus 20:10.  But that says adultery has to do with a married woman.  The other women that my man has in his life are not married and so it is not adultery and not wrong for him and I fully support him.  If he were to have other woman and then leave me then that would be unfaitfulness.   But he continues to provide for me instead of letting the government do his job.   I'm a happy content wife because i choose to let God make me into a biblical wife for my husband.  My man has been faithful to the wife of his youth, me, by continuing to do the husband's part in the marriage by providing me with food and clothing and still sleeping with me when I need it. This all is spelled out in Exodus 21:10.   This all is spelled out clear.   Read it for yourself and don't let the pastors decide for you.  If your man has strong needs like my man it is not a sin for him to multiply his love.  Love conquers all.   It is only wrong for us ladies to be intimate with a man not our husbands.  That is vulgar and disgusting.   Roman 7:3 says it is adultery.  God bless you in your pursuit of the glory of the Lord.  


 So if a man sleeps around, it is now called 'multiplying his love'. Well thats a new one. I'll tell that one to my pastor. It is actually called fornication or adultery.It is called unfaithfulness. It is not love to sleep around, it is lust and sin.
Your husband, whether you like it or not, is committing serious sexual sin. The women are committing adultery because he is married to you.
He is of course NOT being faithful to the wife of his youth because he is sleeping around. He is not loving you as Christ loves the church because he is cheating. He is not keeping the marriage bed pure.If you think that all a husband is, is making sure you have a home and food, then I feel sorry for you.You are loosing out BIG time.

Many men are virile and like lots of sex. That's why they get married. That's why their wives are told not to withhold sex, as are the husbands.It was your choice not to have sex while pregnant,and it was your(wrong) choice to tell him to be unfaithful, but as a man of God, he should have refused because he is sinning sexually and will have to account for that before God. You are making men out to be some sort of animal who has no control and who cant possibly go without sex for a short time. The truly strong man of God is the one who is faithful and who keeps his marriage vows and keeps the marriage bed undefiled. He is the one who will be 'blessed with the rewards of fidelity' as the Bible says.
« Last Edit: Fri Mar 18, 2011 - 06:06:45 by chosenone »

Offline chosenone

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Fornication is when the people arent married, adultery when they are married to other people. I do think that you are the one who needs to learn what God says about unfaithfullness,and the consequenses of committing serious sexual sin(and there will be serious consequenses). Your husband is cheating, and you told him to go and do it! Incredible.

Offline Lively Stone

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ChristianGirl80 you be the judge for yourself.  People are saying things but they don't have sound bible teachings to back it up.   Yes the bible says do not commit adultery.  But that command does not define what adultery is.   Then another place that lively stone quotes is leviticus 20:10.  But that says adultery has to do with a married woman.  The other women that my man has in his life are not married and so it is not adultery and not wrong for him and I fully support him.  If he were to have other woman and then leave me then that would be unfaitfulness.   But he continues to provide for me instead of letting the government do his job.   I'm a happy content wife because i choose to let God make me into a biblical wife for my husband.  My man has been faithful to the wife of his youth, me, by continuing to do the husband's part in the marriage by providing me with food and clothing and still sleeping with me when I need it. This all is spelled out in Exodus 21:10.   This all is spelled out clear.   Read it for yourself and don't let the pastors decide for you.  If your man has strong needs like my man it is not a sin for him to multiply his love.  Love conquers all.   It is only wrong for us ladies to be intimate with a man not our husbands.  That is vulgar and disgusting.   Roman 7:3 says it is adultery.  God bless you in your pursuit of the glory of the Lord.   

Your prize of a husband is committing adultery on you. You giving him permission for his fornication makes you party to his sin. Where is your self respect? I guess as long as he gives you his money it's OK? You can't support yourself? There is no love in your relationship. It is clinical co-dependence!

You are no more a biblical wife than my cat.

Both of you need your heads read...

Offline Lively Stone

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Some men have stronger libidos and some men are just not as virile.   That is a fact of life we should not be jealous or covetous.   It takes a strong woman to submit to her husband.   There have been lots of strong ladies.  I would have been very happy living in the past being married to Abraham, David, Moses, or Jacob.   These are just a few of the very brave strong men of God that slept with plenty of ladies.   And their women were not called sluts or tramps or adulteress or anything like that.   I just look at the bible and let it guide me.

Read the New Testament and meet Jesus. Until you receive Him and repent of your sin, you will never understand the Bible. Truth is spiritually discerned, and so far, you have revealed a serious deficit in spiritual integrity.

Offline Lively Stone

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Why do you say fornication or adultery?  Its either or?   You're not even sure which one so you just toss them both out there and say that its one or the other.   Doesn't sound like you know the bible too well. 


And you do?

Genesis 2:24
This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.

Hebrews 13:4
Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
 9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

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In  reference to the OP:

There is no way I'm going to wade through that long of a post. But, to answer the question in the thread title....

Yes, it is natural for men to notice other women. Women are attractive and men are not dead.

A married man should not make a habit of ogling other women or making comments about their appearance. This limitation because doing so often leads to negative feelings, hurt egos, and anger on the part of their wives. A husband's focus should be on building up his wife and demonstrating that he is faithful to her both physically and emotionally.

So...

Natural to notice? Yes.

Proper to ogle? No.

Proper to compare or comment? No.

NOTE: Just because something is natural does not mean it's correct or appropriate. Killing people you're mad at is natural, but not appropriate. Sleeping with your neighbor's wife is natural, but not appropriate. There's a difference.

Offline Lively Stone

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Killing people you are mad at in natural? Sleeping with a neighbour's wife is natural?

Not in my world!

You are not helping.

HRoberson

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Killing people you are mad at in natural? Sleeping with a neighbour's wife is natural?

Not in my world!

You are not helping.

First, if "helping" means I have to agree with someone, then we're in for a long summer.

Natural in the sense that unregulated humans do these sorts of things. Paul makes the same argument I have made. It is "natural" for the flesh to do whatever the flesh is going to do based on self-interest. Paul though, calls his readers to a higher standard of living - to live unnaturally or with concern and respect for others.

We could also make the argument that Christ-like behavior is ultimately "natural" for Man because Man is made in the image of God and that life is actually more natural than the "flesh" one.

But that wouldn't have fit the thread, so I used the first one.


Offline chosenone

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marlie
Proverbs 5 verse 15-19
Drink Waters out of your own cistern(of a pure marriage relationship)and fresh running waters out of your own well.
Should your offspring be dispersed abroad as water brooks in the street?Confine yourself to your own wife. Let your children be for you alone,and not the children of strangers with you.
Let your fountain of human life be blessed with the rewards of fidelity, and rejoice in the wife of your youth, Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant doe, tender gentle and attractive- let her bosom satisfy you at all times, and always be transported with delight in her love.

Thus your husband will not be blessed with the rewards of fidelity.God cannot bless a marriage where there is unfaithfulness.You, as his wife,are the only women he should be having sex with, and you have abdicated this responsibility, and told him to be unfaithful. He has sinned by not doing the right thing, and every time he has sex with a women he is not married to, he is sinning.

 Please dont imply that you are being a good submissive wife by telling your husband to go and sin, or that he is a good man by sleeping around.
You can choose to live however you like, but to say that this way of life is Gods way, is making Him out to be a liar.
I respect a man who is faithful, who has strong morals and a lot of integrity. I have no respect for any man who cant keep it in his trousers, who has no morals, and who has no self control, and who also allows his own wife to lead him into sin without standing up for what is right.


« Last Edit: Fri Mar 18, 2011 - 11:56:05 by chosenone »

Offline Lively Stone

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My husband and I just follow the teachings of the Lord. 

No. You defy God.

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We stopped letting the pastors decide what the bible meant and decided to learn for ourselves.
 

Something tells me that was not your first mistake. Abandoning the church when the God-appointed leadership preach truth that you don't like is against God and has only brought you into a spiritual wasteland.

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My husband is a strong and faithful man and I do not judge him for what God does not judge him for.   Abraham had many concubines.   Genesis 25:6 "But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country."

You are deceived and greatly deluded. Your husband is weak and acting like an unbeliever, as you are, dancing to your own tune and are living contrary to God. You will reap what you sow.


Offline Lively Stone

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why don't you also broadcast in ALL CAPS as well as bold? It would make your pronouncements seem even more dramatic. 

All caps is considered shouting. If that is all you can come up with than I am pleased that the Lord has simply stymied you. Praise God. Listen to Him. Come to Christ, repent and find forgiveness.

Offline Carwhisperer

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I can't tell who the poster is whose husband is sleeping around, seems like her posts have been deleted and only the quotes remain. I've been separated from my wife for 2 years because I wanted to have sex with other women. I had the "decency" to throw her out of the house first, wrecking hers and our 11 year old daughter's lives in the process.

I don't know if my wife could have ever accepted what you accept but I don't think you are totally out to lunch by any means. David, for example, had multiple wives and was referred to as a "man after God's own heart". He even slept with a young woman shortly before his death. His sin with Bathsheba seems to have been condemned because she was already married and because he had her husband killed. As you say, many of the Patriarchs were polygamists and Exodus and Leviticus give rules for how to practice polygamy. Solomon was given tremendous wisdom by God yet was the Wilt Chamberlain of the Bible.

On the other hand, I don't believe that the entire Old Testament was inspired by God. For example, I can't swallow Exodus 21:7-10, which provides a framework for how to sell your daughter into sex slavery, as being God's words. The Bible is composed of 66 books, chosen by men in the 4th century as being the Word of God. What promise from God do we have that they got it right? One of the strongest statements ever made in the Bible to attest to its inerrancy is when Paul says "all scripture is God breathed...". But the Bible as we know it did not exist at the time Paul wrote this. Our Bible had several books removed from it in the mid 1800's (the Aprocrypha, which the 1611 KJ contained, was removed at this time), so it has not been the same since the 4th century.

Yes, Jesus said that lusting is akin to adutery but even He did not directly preach against polygamy. On the other hand, Paul does seem to preach monogamy and there aren't new testament rules for how to practice polygamy. Also, males and females are born in a ratio of roughly one to one. So it is not really possible for men to have multiple sex partners without at least some women doing the same.

My wife and I are considering reconciliation at this time. I know that in so doing I will need to be 100% faithful to her. I still desire other women besides her and sometimes think I should just give up on reconciliation so that I don't hurt her again some day.

My bottom line is this: I believe that if your wedding vows contain a promise to be faithful to your wife that you are sinning if you do not. Furthermore, despite what happened BC or happens in other cultures (i.e., polygamy is rampant in Africa) in this culture it is sin to sleep with someone other than your wife. It is crushing to her. You are injuring one of God's precious creatures. You are not loving your neighbor as yourself. Who is my neighbor? If the Samaritan was a neighbor then your wife certainly is.
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 19, 2011 - 16:13:37 by Carwhisperer »

Offline chosenone

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All of the NT teaches that being faithful to your wife/husband is Gods will. As Christians, we are to follow the teaching for us that is in the NT.
Intimacy is something very precious and special that should never be taken outside the marriage bed. It is for the husband and wife in that special relationship where God has joined them together. It is not to be shared around with other men/women whether single, or married to someone one else. Paul speaks of very serious consequenses for those who sin sexually whether it be through fornication or adultery.

Offline Lively Stone

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Yes, Jesus said that lusting is akin to adutery but even He did not directly preach against polygamy. On the other hand, Paul does seem to preach monogamy and there aren't new testament rules for how to practice polygamy. Also, males and females are born in a ratio of roughly one to one. So it is not really possible for men to have multiple sex partners without at least some women doing the same.

Jesus never mentioned homosexuality either. It doesn't mean it isn't completely sin. Don't rationalize. That is how Satan approached Eve with his enticement.

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My wife and I are considering reconciliation at this time. I know that in so doing I will need to be 100% faithful to her. I still desire other women besides her and sometimes think I should just give up on reconciliation so that I don't hurt her again some day.

The marriage vow of faithfulness is a decision. If you cannot follow through on a decision to love your wife exclusively as God commands, stay single, but you must remain celibate, also.


Offline Carwhisperer

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Jesus never mentioned homosexuality either. It doesn't mean it isn't completely sin. Don't rationalize. That is how Satan approached Eve with his enticement.


The marriage vow of faithfulness is a decision. If you cannot follow through on a decision to love your wife exclusively as God commands, stay single, but you must remain celibate, also.


How about David, being a serial adulterer and polygamist being referred to as a man after God's own heart? Is that rationalizing?

But I wasn't saying polygamy is OK because Jesus doesn't mention it. I was implying that it is likely that He didn't approve of it. Moses, on the other hand, apparently did approve of it, because the Mosaic Law told the Jews how to practice it. If you believe God inspired all of Moses' writings then it seems to me that you have to believe that God condoned polygamy. As a leader you don't provide a framework of how to do something you don't want them to do. You don't tell your kids how to smoke pot if you don't want them to do it. You either say don't do it or don't say anything.

Offline Lively Stone

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Jesus never mentioned homosexuality either. It doesn't mean it isn't completely sin. Don't rationalize. That is how Satan approached Eve with his enticement.


The marriage vow of faithfulness is a decision. If you cannot follow through on a decision to love your wife exclusively as God commands, stay single, but you must remain celibate, also.


How about David, being a serial adulterer and polygamist being referred to as a man after God's own heart? Is that rationalizing?

It is proof that God looks on the heart. But it also proves that God worked with His people within the culture and customs they insisted on carrying. God never considered polygamy as right. He never wanted it, but He allowed it because of the hardness of men's hearts toward righteous living.

David forsook his concubines and kept only to one wife eventually, because His heart was sensitive to God.


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But I wasn't saying polygamy is OK because Jesus doesn't mention it. I was implying that it is likely that He didn't approve of it. Moses, on the other hand, apparently did approve of it, because the Mosaic Law told the Jews how to practice it. If you believe God inspired all of Moses' writings then it seems to me that you have to believe that God condoned polygamy. As a leader you don't provide a framework of how to do something you don't want them to do. You don't tell your kids how to smoke pot if you don't want them to do it. You either say don't do it or don't say anything.

God was well aware of the rut that the pagan culture had made in His people. He never sanctioned or condoned polygamy. He established the family as one man and one woman!

God in His wisdom and in His compassion for people who would be terribly distraught, and displaced if He had suddenly banned it, allowed that sinful practice to work itself out of the culture.
 
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 20, 2011 - 13:25:08 by Lively Stone »

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Given that elders are to be "one-woman-men," it seems the goal - the standard - for Christians is a similar expectation.

Rather than running around without self-control is not in line with God's expectations (at least as demonstrated in the New Testament).  Moses also allowed divorce (and we can say that God did as well). We are told in no certain terms that divorcing one's spouse for willy-nilly reasons has never been the real expectation.

The fact that things occurred under the Mosaic system does not necessarily lend them credence, especially when their are New Testament teachings that contradict those Mosaic allowances.

Offline Carwhisperer

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David forsook his concubines and kept only to one wife eventually, because His heart was sensitive to God.[/b]

God was well aware of the rut that the pagan culture had made in His people. He never sanctioned or condoned polygamy. He established the family as one man and one woman!

God in His wisdom and in His compassion for people who would be terribly distraught, and displaced if He had suddenly banned it, allowed that sinful practice to work itself out of the culture.
 


Well that is good that David did that. That one wife was Bathsheba, right? His first wife was one of Saul's daughters, tossed on the scrap heap of love I suppose. Also, he apparently came pretty close to having sex with a beautiful young woman in his last days, as I Kings 1:1-4 tells us. Perhaps only his physical inability kept him from doing so?

How do you claim to know the very thoughts of God and His reasoning for why he permitted polygamy when the Bible doesn't tell us this? Your explanation is plausible, but not based on anything in the Bible. Jesus says Moses allowed divorce because your hearts were hard, He didn't say Moses allowed polygamy because your hearts were hard.

But one way or the other, our God  is unchanging, right? You're saying God created a one man, one woman system, then because the people's hearts were evil he changed it and gave them the rules for how to practice polygamy, then they got it out of their system so He changed it back. I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. We are talking about horrible sin that ruined the lives of women and families. In what other areas did God bend to the whims of man? Sheep farming? Don't think so. Keeping the Sabbath? No. Tithing? No. Borrowing? No. So he chose arguably the most important human activity, marriage, and allowed man to desecrate it and told them how to do it. Read Exodus 21:7 (Now when you sell your daughter into slavery...). Doesn't it make more sense to believe that the Bible is not fully inspired and that God didn't give all of the Mosaic law as we have it now?

Would you behave this way with your children. You raised your 16 year old daughter to save herself for marriage then you find out she is sleeping with a drummer from a heavy metal band. So you say, "Sweetie, make sure you and your boyfriend use protection." No you don't, you make sure she doesn't ever see the guy again. You do everything within your power to keep her from practicing this harmful behavior. If you, being human, would do this, how much more so would God do the same thing to keep us from harming ourselves and those around us?

After saying all of that I seek to hold myself to a higher standard than that to which the partiarchs were held. I do see the value of staying with the same woman for life, even though that is not what I did. I want more reasons to be faithful to my wife, not less. For that reason I sincerely wish the stories of polygamy and the way it was treated were not in the Bible. 

Offline marc

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To the op, no, it isn't natural, but it's not your fault; it's the fault of the women he looks at. They are sinning by not wearing burqas.

Offline Lively Stone

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David forsook his concubines and kept only to one wife eventually, because His heart was sensitive to God.[/b]

God was well aware of the rut that the pagan culture had made in His people. He never sanctioned or condoned polygamy. He established the family as one man and one woman!

God in His wisdom and in His compassion for people who would be terribly distraught, and displaced if He had suddenly banned it, allowed that sinful practice to work itself out of the culture.
 


Well that is good that David did that. That one wife was Bathsheba, right? His first wife was one of Saul's daughters, tossed on the scrap heap of love I suppose. Also, he apparently came pretty close to having sex with a beautiful young woman in his last days, as I Kings 1:1-4 tells us. Perhaps only his physical inability kept him from doing so?

What physical inability?

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How do you claim to know the very thoughts of God and His reasoning for why he permitted polygamy when the Bible doesn't tell us this? Your explanation is plausible, but not based on anything in the Bible. Jesus says Moses allowed divorce because your hearts were hard, He didn't say Moses allowed polygamy because your hearts were hard.

It's called spiritual discernment. If it's plausible, go a step further and ask God to help you settle it in your mind and heart. If you can't, then toss it, but don't entertain the idea that God allowed a perversion to faithfulness in marriage because men were sensitive to God. That would be wacky.

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But one way or the other, our God  is unchanging, right? You're saying God created a one man, one woman system, then because the people's hearts were evil he changed it and gave them the rules for how to practice polygamy, then they got it out of their system so He changed it back. I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. We are talking about horrible sin that ruined the lives of women and families. In what other areas did God bend to the whims of man? Sheep farming? Don't think so. Keeping the Sabbath? No. Tithing? No. Borrowing? No. So he chose arguably the most important human activity, marriage, and allowed man to desecrate it and told them how to do it. Read Exodus 21:7 (Now when you sell your daughter into slavery...). Doesn't it make more sense to believe that the Bible is not fully inspired and that God didn't give all of the Mosaic law as we have it now?

God never changes in His character. He does, however change direction.

It makes sense to hold up the inspired word of God over the feeble sensibilities of sinful men.


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Would you behave this way with your children. You raised your 16 year old daughter to save herself for marriage then you find out she is sleeping with a drummer from a heavy metal band. So you say, "Sweetie, make sure you and your boyfriend use protection." No you don't, you make sure she doesn't ever see the guy again. You do everything within your power to keep her from practicing this harmful behavior. If you, being human, would do this, how much more so would God do the same thing to keep us from harming ourselves and those around us?

Free will has a way of screwing up God's dictatorship, doesn't it?

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After saying all of that I seek to hold myself to a higher standard than that to which the partiarchs were held. I do see the value of staying with the same woman for life, even though that is not what I did. I want more reasons to be faithful to my wife, not less. For that reason I sincerely wish the stories of polygamy and the way it was treated were not in the Bible.  

What more reason than Godly integrity do you need?

Offline marc

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I don't know all the trails this thread has taken, but in the end we're all responsible for our own actions, and it makes me ill to hear men excuse their straying. If you do it, it's your fault. Plain and simple.

 

     
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