is pornography grounds for divorce

[Bocephus]

The problem with lust = 'adultery' (of the heart) being punishable by divorce is that if we are going to punish sins of the heart then this has to carry over to a similar precept from scripture.

(1Jn 3:15 KJV)  Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:

*IF* lust of the heart being 'adultery' is grounds for taking appropriate action, then this man who hates his brother should, to be logically consistent, be tried for murder in a court of law.

I dont think that is the point in scripture with this sins of the heart where no physical sin takes place. The point isnt to give grounds for divorce or punishment on mans part, its to expose the sins of the heart to the person who lusts or hates his brother.

Of course, you've hit the nail on the head.

[chosenone]

We know what the Bible says about sin.
We also know the reality of our culture on earth, good and bad.

Yes, porno is sin.  Jesus said if you look at another with lust, you have committed adultery with her in your heart.  If that is grounds for divorce......97% of Christians would be divorced.  I think it is sin that needs to be squashed.

The reality of a woman divorcing her husband for looking at porn is arguable but not realistic.....even with Christians.  Hate to say it......but we all know the sick world we live in.  There are ALWAYS underlying reasons why people get divorced.  Sometimes, I think we as Christians want to pretend we live in this sheltered world......but we don't....its the same sick society we all live in.  Where same sex marriages are OK & women are almost naked in commercials, drug use is an every day occurence, & celebrities are in rehab and are glorified because of it.  We as Christians are in this world.........not of it.

 I'm sorry but you cannot say that 97% of Christian guys look at porn. That is just simply not true. My husband never looks at porn and nor did my first husband and neither does my adult son. I have many Christian female friends and none of their husband do either.The only case that I know of personally was a Christian lady whose non Christian husband was looking at porn and they are now divorced.

That is a very sweeping statement. Even if it were true it is still sexual immorality and long term and unrepentant use of porn would give grounds for divorce in my opinion.Just because it is getting more common doesn't make it acceptable. After all adultery is quite common now but that doesn't mean that it isn't still grounds for divorce.

So, should we take your opinion or God's Word?

 

It depends on whether you consider looking at porn as sexual immorality or not. Jesus used the word 'pornea' as the reason he gives for allowance for divorce. That word means many different types of sexually immorality and certainly not just adultery itself.

To me, if someone is repeatedly looking at porn, probably masturbating while he is actually looking at it,probably imagining that he is having sex with these women while he is having sex with his wife, then that is sexually immorality.

If you don't think it is, then what is it?

Porn is lust.  Looking at a woman too long on the street is lust.  If "adultery in the heart" is grounds for divorce, almost every couple has grounds for divorce.

Lust is not physical adultery.  Is it sinful?  Yes.  Grounds for divorce?  I don't believe so.  If it is, virtually every woman on this planet has grounds for divorce unless their husbands are blind.

 

 To me that long term use of porn that is totally unrepentant and deliberate and that the person wont even attempt to stop is a totally different thing from looking at a lady for a few seconds too long.(although some men are also very careful about not doing that)
.
Porn usage to me is being unfaithful even if there is no actual physical contact.

It doesn't really matter to me whether anyone agree or not,it is only my opinion.  We have seen from posts that it can and does destroy wives and marriages. That is why Satan loves to get people hooked on to it because it is so destructive. 
Porn use is sexually immoral, and The Holy spirit withdraws when a person does it. I have heard people tell me that from experience.

But any scripture to back up "your experience?"

 it is what others who have experienced that have told me. The Holy Spirit in us will not look at porn so of course he will withdraw.Of course the Bible does not say "If you look on the internet at porn I will withdraw from you" Our bodies are supposed to be a temple of the Holy Spirit.if we keep committing sexual immorality of any sort God will not stick around while we are doing it.
Gary you are not being realistic if you want a verse for every little tiny thing. Things such as porn on the internet or in DVDs or videos etc weren't around when the bible was written but sexual sin were spoken about in no uncertain terms.Looking at porn is a sin and is 100% to do with sex. What do you think Paul would have written to those who repeatedly do this?. He wouldn't have minced his words I am sure. He never did.  If a husbands porn use is destroying his wife and deeply affecting his kids then why would God want her to stay?
A lady who I know is a case in point. her husband used to look at porn including going onto swingers sites, when she was out at Church meetings and his two kids were running around in the room playing.  They were about 2 and four at the time. When she divorced him, the judge saw it as being so serious that the man was only allowed supervised visits once a week with his children.
Strange how a judge who isnt a christian sees it as so serious when even some Christians seem to think that a wife and her children should have to live in an intolerable situation for years and do nothing to protect themselves. This isnt just something that is not that bad, it is serious sexual sin and many women have said that it feels just as bad as if he has physically committed adultery. In fact some say it is worse becuase it is with many women and not just with one.
Just becuase he isnt physically touching them, he is in His mind and that is so terribly hurtful for the spouse. No one should have to put up with being hurt demeaned and destroyed by anothers sin.

[HRoberson]

The problem with lust = 'adultery' (of the heart) being punishable by divorce is that if we are going to punish sins of the heart then this has to carry over to a similar precept from scripture.

(1Jn 3:15 KJV)  Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:

*IF* lust of the heart being 'adultery' is grounds for taking appropriate action, then this man who hates his brother should, to be logically consistent, be tried for murder in a court of law.

I dont think that is the point in scripture with this sins of the heart where no physical sin takes place. The point isnt to give grounds for divorce or punishment on mans part, its to expose the sins of the heart to the person who lusts or hates his brother.

Of course, you've hit the nail on the head.

Yup.

[rppearso]

Definition - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lust

[Bocephus]

We know what the Bible says about sin.
We also know the reality of our culture on earth, good and bad.

Yes, porno is sin.  Jesus said if you look at another with lust, you have committed adultery with her in your heart.  If that is grounds for divorce......97% of Christians would be divorced.  I think it is sin that needs to be squashed.

The reality of a woman divorcing her husband for looking at porn is arguable but not realistic.....even with Christians.  Hate to say it......but we all know the sick world we live in.  There are ALWAYS underlying reasons why people get divorced.  Sometimes, I think we as Christians want to pretend we live in this sheltered world......but we don't....its the same sick society we all live in.  Where same sex marriages are OK & women are almost naked in commercials, drug use is an every day occurence, & celebrities are in rehab and are glorified because of it.  We as Christians are in this world.........not of it.

 I'm sorry but you cannot say that 97% of Christian guys look at porn. That is just simply not true. My husband never looks at porn and nor did my first husband and neither does my adult son. I have many Christian female friends and none of their husband do either.The only case that I know of personally was a Christian lady whose non Christian husband was looking at porn and they are now divorced.

That is a very sweeping statement. Even if it were true it is still sexual immorality and long term and unrepentant use of porn would give grounds for divorce in my opinion.Just because it is getting more common doesn't make it acceptable. After all adultery is quite common now but that doesn't mean that it isn't still grounds for divorce.

So, should we take your opinion or God's Word?

 

It depends on whether you consider looking at porn as sexual immorality or not. Jesus used the word 'pornea' as the reason he gives for allowance for divorce. That word means many different types of sexually immorality and certainly not just adultery itself.

To me, if someone is repeatedly looking at porn, probably masturbating while he is actually looking at it,probably imagining that he is having sex with these women while he is having sex with his wife, then that is sexually immorality.

If you don't think it is, then what is it?

Porn is lust.  Looking at a woman too long on the street is lust.  If "adultery in the heart" is grounds for divorce, almost every couple has grounds for divorce.

Lust is not physical adultery.  Is it sinful?  Yes.  Grounds for divorce?  I don't believe so.  If it is, virtually every woman on this planet has grounds for divorce unless their husbands are blind.

 

 To me that long term use of porn that is totally unrepentant and deliberate and that the person wont even attempt to stop is a totally different thing from looking at a lady for a few seconds too long.(although some men are also very careful about not doing that)
.
Porn usage to me is being unfaithful even if there is no actual physical contact.

It doesn't really matter to me whether anyone agree or not,it is only my opinion.  We have seen from posts that it can and does destroy wives and marriages. That is why Satan loves to get people hooked on to it because it is so destructive. 
Porn use is sexually immoral, and The Holy spirit withdraws when a person does it. I have heard people tell me that from experience.

But any scripture to back up "your experience?"

 it is what others who have experienced that have told me. The Holy Spirit in us will not look at porn so of course he will withdraw.Of course the Bible does not say "If you look on the internet at porn I will withdraw from you" Our bodies are supposed to be a temple of the Holy Spirit.if we keep committing sexual immorality of any sort God will not stick around while we are doing it.
Gary you are not being realistic if you want a verse for every little tiny thing. Things such as porn on the internet or in DVDs or videos etc weren't around when the bible was written but sexual sin were spoken about in no uncertain terms.Looking at porn is a sin and is 100% to do with sex. What do you think Paul would have written to those who repeatedly do this?. He wouldn't have minced his words I am sure. He never did.  If a husbands porn use is destroying his wife and deeply affecting his kids then why would God want her to stay?
A lady who I know is a case in point. her husband used to look at porn including going onto swingers sites, when she was out at Church meetings and his two kids were running around in the room playing.  They were about 2 and four at the time. When she divorced him, the judge saw it as being so serious that the man was only allowed supervised visits once a week with his children.
Strange how a judge who isnt a christian sees it as so serious when even some Christians seem to think that a wife and her children should have to live in an intolerable situation for years and do nothing to protect themselves. This isnt just something that is not that bad, it is serious sexual sin and many women have said that it feels just as bad as if he has physically committed adultery. In fact some say it is worse becuase it is with many women and not just with one.
Just becuase he isnt physically touching them, he is in His mind and that is so terribly hurtful for the spouse. No one should have to put up with being hurt demeaned and destroyed by anothers sin.

Isn't a tiny thing to say definitively that the Holy Spirit withdraws from someone based on the words of others, but not the Word of God.  Neither is it a tiny thing to say demons can be transmitted via sinful sexual behavior, etc,etc.

I ask for scripture, because I see a lot of things that you say as truth are based on the experience of others or some ministry, but not God's Word.  And not just in this thread, but others as well. 

[chosenone]

We know what the Bible says about sin.
We also know the reality of our culture on earth, good and bad.

Yes, porno is sin.  Jesus said if you look at another with lust, you have committed adultery with her in your heart.  If that is grounds for divorce......97% of Christians would be divorced.  I think it is sin that needs to be squashed.

The reality of a woman divorcing her husband for looking at porn is arguable but not realistic.....even with Christians.  Hate to say it......but we all know the sick world we live in.  There are ALWAYS underlying reasons why people get divorced.  Sometimes, I think we as Christians want to pretend we live in this sheltered world......but we don't....its the same sick society we all live in.  Where same sex marriages are OK & women are almost naked in commercials, drug use is an every day occurence, & celebrities are in rehab and are glorified because of it.  We as Christians are in this world.........not of it.

 I'm sorry but you cannot say that 97% of Christian guys look at porn. That is just simply not true. My husband never looks at porn and nor did my first husband and neither does my adult son. I have many Christian female friends and none of their husband do either.The only case that I know of personally was a Christian lady whose non Christian husband was looking at porn and they are now divorced.

That is a very sweeping statement. Even if it were true it is still sexual immorality and long term and unrepentant use of porn would give grounds for divorce in my opinion.Just because it is getting more common doesn't make it acceptable. After all adultery is quite common now but that doesn't mean that it isn't still grounds for divorce.

So, should we take your opinion or God's Word?

 

It depends on whether you consider looking at porn as sexual immorality or not. Jesus used the word 'pornea' as the reason he gives for allowance for divorce. That word means many different types of sexually immorality and certainly not just adultery itself.

To me, if someone is repeatedly looking at porn, probably masturbating while he is actually looking at it,probably imagining that he is having sex with these women while he is having sex with his wife, then that is sexually immorality.

If you don't think it is, then what is it?

Porn is lust.  Looking at a woman too long on the street is lust.  If "adultery in the heart" is grounds for divorce, almost every couple has grounds for divorce.

Lust is not physical adultery.  Is it sinful?  Yes.  Grounds for divorce?  I don't believe so.  If it is, virtually every woman on this planet has grounds for divorce unless their husbands are blind.

 

 To me that long term use of porn that is totally unrepentant and deliberate and that the person wont even attempt to stop is a totally different thing from looking at a lady for a few seconds too long.(although some men are also very careful about not doing that)
.
Porn usage to me is being unfaithful even if there is no actual physical contact.

It doesn't really matter to me whether anyone agree or not,it is only my opinion.  We have seen from posts that it can and does destroy wives and marriages. That is why Satan loves to get people hooked on to it because it is so destructive. 
Porn use is sexually immoral, and The Holy spirit withdraws when a person does it. I have heard people tell me that from experience.

But any scripture to back up "your experience?"

 it is what others who have experienced that have told me. The Holy Spirit in us will not look at porn so of course he will withdraw.Of course the Bible does not say "If you look on the internet at porn I will withdraw from you" Our bodies are supposed to be a temple of the Holy Spirit.if we keep committing sexual immorality of any sort God will not stick around while we are doing it.
Gary you are not being realistic if you want a verse for every little tiny thing. Things such as porn on the internet or in DVDs or videos etc weren't around when the bible was written but sexual sin were spoken about in no uncertain terms.Looking at porn is a sin and is 100% to do with sex. What do you think Paul would have written to those who repeatedly do this?. He wouldn't have minced his words I am sure. He never did.  If a husbands porn use is destroying his wife and deeply affecting his kids then why would God want her to stay?
A lady who I know is a case in point. her husband used to look at porn including going onto swingers sites, when she was out at Church meetings and his two kids were running around in the room playing.  They were about 2 and four at the time. When she divorced him, the judge saw it as being so serious that the man was only allowed supervised visits once a week with his children.
Strange how a judge who isnt a christian sees it as so serious when even some Christians seem to think that a wife and her children should have to live in an intolerable situation for years and do nothing to protect themselves. This isnt just something that is not that bad, it is serious sexual sin and many women have said that it feels just as bad as if he has physically committed adultery. In fact some say it is worse becuase it is with many women and not just with one.
Just becuase he isnt physically touching them, he is in His mind and that is so terribly hurtful for the spouse. No one should have to put up with being hurt demeaned and destroyed by anothers sin.

Isn't a tiny thing to say definitively that the Holy Spirit withdraws from someone based on the words of others, but not the Word of God.  Neither is it a tiny thing to say demons can be transmitted via sinful sexual behavior, etc,etc.

I ask for scripture, because I see a lot of things that you say as truth are based on the experience of others or some ministry, but not God's Word.  And not just in this thread, but others as well. 

 It isnt one ministry it is many deliverance ministries worldwide who have learnt certain things about delivering people who have been involved in porn, and other sexual sin of any kind. If others arent interested in listening of the experiences of these people or of what those who have had deliverance in this area have to say then that is up to them.Most Christisn have absolutel;y no experience of deliverance of any kind and I think that is sad and is also disobeying Gods instruction to heal and deliver.

The Bible expressly forbids lusting after a woman,(whch is what porn is after all) sex before marriage, sex with anyone who we are not married to, etc etc. The eyes are the window to our soul. if we allow rubbish in then guess what, The Holy Spirit doesnt hang around.
To look at porn with no sense of how bad it is, or how damaging, is a wilful sin, it is up to us if we carry on but if we do there are always consequenses. One of these is that it deeply affects our relationship with God, and another is that we can loose our families and destroy our lives and others lives.We can destroy our marriages and God holds us responsible for what we do to others.

I find it quite significant that those here who deny the seriousness of it, or that a woman who has almost had her life destroyed by it  can actually be allowed to leave the person who has done that, are men.
The women who have posted before have been ignored. THEY are the ones who know what devastation it has bought to their lives children and marriages.

 I thank God daily that I have a godly husband who knows that porn is something that God hates and who has very high morals in this area. One of the reasons that I fell in love with him. Men really are not helpless in this area. Looking at porn is a choice, staring at other women for far too long is a choice. I would never dream of staring at another guy, I love and respect my husband far too much for that.
.. We cannot avoid seeing people but we dont have to stare or lust after them.  We can turn away. Job made a covenant with his eyes not to look lustfully at another woman. if he can do it why cant we?

However I am not comparing the temptation to look at a woman in the street with long term deliberate use of porn, which is what this post is all about..


Gary maybe you can give me specific verses where it says that men can committ any type of sexual sin and their wives can do nothing about it to protect themselves and their children. God surely expects us to have common sense . Not every sin that we have today is mentioned in the Bible(the word porn wasnt used then) but if a sin is so serious that it breaks up marriages, and destroys people spiritually and emotionally , then that is one that we have to stop.If a man wont stop it,  after he is challenged and given boundaries, then to leave may be the only option for some women and her children as it was for the lady that I used to know.

[browneyes]

Porn is lust.  Looking at a woman too long on the street is lust.  If "adultery in the heart" is grounds for divorce, almost every couple has grounds for divorce.

Lust is not physical adultery.  Is it sinful?  Yes.  Grounds for divorce?  I don't believe so.  If it is, virtually every woman on this planet has grounds for divorce unless their husbands are blind.

  Does God judge the physical or the heart?   According to scripture he is most interested in one's heart.  It is clear that lust is serious for Jesus went out of his way to say to lust is to committ adultery in one's heart, so don't do it.   From what you are saying is that no living man can live a life without lust.   That's not true or that would make God a liar.   I could lust everyday too if that is  what I chose, but I don't.  One can see that woman or man that is attractive or very sexy, but they don't  "have" to go down the road of lust.  Every man or woman has a choice to go further down that road that will lead to lust which may be no more than two seconds, but they still have a choice. 

[browneyes]

I'm sorry but you cannot say that 97% of Christian guys look at porn. That is just simply not true. My husband never looks at porn and nor did my first husband and neither does my adult son. I have many Christian female friends and none of their husband do either.The only case that I know of personally was a Christian lady whose non Christian husband was looking at porn and they are now divorced.

Please don't take this as a knock on you, but I work with men that view porn daily and their wife and family would walk through fire to say, "My husband would never look at porn". They believe what they are being told, and what they are being told is a lie.

Just because a guy doesn't look at it on the home computer, that doesn't mean he can't see it else where. (Internet cafes, work, library, etc...)

As sad as it is, some men would rather lie to their spouse than disappoint their spouse. For most men, definitely Christian men, porn is a no no. Looked down on.

I am not saying that all men look at porn. I don't. But I would never say I haven't either.

Sorry to say this but it  makes me ill to think of all the lies and betrayel happening within marriages.  Why get married if it's just a bunch of lies you can't help but ask sometimes.

[browneyes]

I'm sorry but you cannot say that 97% of Christian guys look at porn. That is just simply not true. My husband never looks at porn and nor did my first husband and neither does my adult son. I have many Christian female friends and none of their husband do either.The only case that I know of personally was a Christian lady whose non Christian husband was looking at porn and they are now divorced.

Please don't take this as a knock on you, but I work with men that view porn daily and their wife and family would walk through fire to say, "My husband would never look at porn". They believe what they are being told, and what they are being told is a lie.

Just because a guy doesn't look at it on the home computer, that doesn't mean he can't see it else where. (Internet cafes, work, library, etc...)

As sad as it is, some men would rather lie to their spouse than disappoint their spouse. For most men, definitely Christian men, porn is a no no. Looked down on.

I am not saying that all men look at porn. I don't. But I would never say I haven't either.

  If men look at porn in secret and their wives have no idea then they are also deceiving and lying as well as looking at porn.
yes I am sure that many non christian guys do it, to the world it is quite normal, after all, 'everyone does it' they will say. Also I know that there are many Christian men who do   also,However the women I know have husbands who don't do it.

. My hubby works at home and hates porn. he of course has the same struggles as any man but he is very strict about even seeing scantily clad women on the television and refuses to see any film with sex or partially clad women in it. he is very godly man. My ex also worked in a place where it wouldn't have been possible to do that at work and certainly never did it at home.
Christian guys are obviously a target for Satan in this area but to imply that 97% look at porn (and I am talking about regular use of porn)doesn't stand up to studies that have been done.

if any man who I was married to do regularly did it and wasn't prepared to even consider stopping or admit that is was wrong, then I would see it was a reason to divorce, for sexual immorality.Others don't agree, but as we have heard here from others, it destroys lives and marriages. If the person doing it wants to destroy their lives that's is their business but why let it destroy their spouses and children's as well?.

If, a man or woman is looking at porn or watchng it and has self pleasing sex to it, then have they not committed adultery?  A one time offender be divorced over it, most likely not.  A regular user who is pretty much engaging in sex with the porn star with the exception of body parts and fluid being exchanged is adultery.  It's like a woman or man having  sex with dozens of different on people.   You are no longer going to bed with just your spouse, but all those porn stars they had sex with too.  I'd call it adultery.

[Mac]

Sorry to say this but it  makes me ill to think of all the lies and betrayel happening within marriages.  Why get married if it's just a bunch of lies you can't help but ask sometimes.

Yep. It is almost like it is part of life today to lie and deceive your spouse. My wife and I made an agreement/vow that we would never lie to each other. NEVER. It has been difficult at times.. (i.e. trying to hide surprise parties, gifts, etc...) But in the end, we have held to it.

I watch so many people just lie about everything. I know they are telling a lie. They know they're telling a lie. But if you call them on it, it's as if you have no right to say, "Hey, stop lying to me." It is a real problem with the youth today. I have 4 children ranging in age from 17 to 12. My 3 oldest would rather lie than tell the truth it seems. They will lie even when they have been caught in a lie. It is really amazing.

But, back to what you posted, it is sad. But in today's culture, the rules are:

Don't get married unless you have had sex. "You wouldn't by a car without driving it."
What the harm in a little white lie? "What they won't know can't hurt them."
Always have an "extra" on the side. "A stupid man only has one woman."

And my favorite...
"My personal life is really none of your business. This is about our relationship.. Not my old ones. But if you must know, it's only been a couple of guys/gals."

Translation:
I have had multiple partners. I know you would frown on that so I will not tell him/her about it.

[Mac]

Isn't a tiny thing to say definitively that the Holy Spirit withdraws from someone based on the words of others, but not the Word of God.  Neither is it a tiny thing to say demons can be transmitted via sinful sexual behavior, etc,etc.

I agree. However, I think this is the issue that will plague us (Christians) until we are laying at the feet of Jesus in Heaven.

We know that a sin is a sin. There really is no "scale" when it comes to sin. Not in Gods eyes anyway. We have a hard time looking at sin that way. But to God, a liar is the same as a murderer. An adulterer is the same as a thief. And so on, and so on...

What we have to come to grips with is this, Can we openly sin, daily, and expect the Lord to stay (dwell) with in us? What you see as truth really depends on your "Denominational" teachings and beliefs. You have the once saved always saved crowd. Then you have the crowd that believes salvation is given (earned) upon death as long as you have fought the good fight. You have people who believe that as long as you treat others as you want to be treated, all is good.

Who is right and who is wrong? For me, it is like this. I believe the Lord dwells within us. I believe we are all sinners. I believe that when we sin, the Holy Spirit within us is grieved. That is why we are convicted in our thoughts and prayers. However, I do not believe it is possible to LIVE in sin everyday and be a saved, born again Christian. See 1 John Chapter 3.

 4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

 7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.[/b]

So, what does this mean to me? It means that if a man/woman is living in sin everyday, the same sin life(porn, adultery, etc..), they have never known the Lord. That is scriptural. I don't think the Holy Spirit flees. The bible says that He will not leave or forsake you. Once you become His child, nothing will pluck you away from Him.

Anyone who professes to be a Christian, but there is no difference in their life than that of a lost or unsaved person, something is amiss. Your life will be changed when you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.

We all sin. Yes. But if we profess to have Christ within us, living in sin is not an option.

[chosenone]

I'm sorry but you cannot say that 97% of Christian guys look at porn. That is just simply not true. My husband never looks at porn and nor did my first husband and neither does my adult son. I have many Christian female friends and none of their husband do either.The only case that I know of personally was a Christian lady whose non Christian husband was looking at porn and they are now divorced.

Please don't take this as a knock on you, but I work with men that view porn daily and their wife and family would walk through fire to say, "My husband would never look at porn". They believe what they are being told, and what they are being told is a lie.

Just because a guy doesn't look at it on the home computer, that doesn't mean he can't see it else where. (Internet cafes, work, library, etc...)

As sad as it is, some men would rather lie to their spouse than disappoint their spouse. For most men, definitely Christian men, porn is a no no. Looked down on.

I am not saying that all men look at porn. I don't. But I would never say I haven't either.

  If men look at porn in secret and their wives have no idea then they are also deceiving and lying as well as looking at porn.
yes I am sure that many non christian guys do it, to the world it is quite normal, after all, 'everyone does it' they will say. Also I know that there are many Christian men who do   also,However the women I know have husbands who don't do it.

. My hubby works at home and hates porn. he of course has the same struggles as any man but he is very strict about even seeing scantily clad women on the television and refuses to see any film with sex or partially clad women in it. he is very godly man. My ex also worked in a place where it wouldn't have been possible to do that at work and certainly never did it at home.
Christian guys are obviously a target for Satan in this area but to imply that 97% look at porn (and I am talking about regular use of porn)doesn't stand up to studies that have been done.

if any man who I was married to do regularly did it and wasn't prepared to even consider stopping or admit that is was wrong, then I would see it was a reason to divorce, for sexual immorality.Others don't agree, but as we have heard here from others, it destroys lives and marriages. If the person doing it wants to destroy their lives that's is their business but why let it destroy their spouses and children's as well?.

If, a man or woman is looking at porn or watchng it and has self pleasing sex to it, then have they not committed adultery?  A one time offender be divorced over it, most likely not.  A regular user who is pretty much engaging in sex with the porn star with the exception of body parts and fluid being exchanged is adultery.  It's like a woman or man having  sex with dozens of different on people.   You are no longer going to bed with just your spouse, but all those porn stars they had sex with too.  I'd call it adultery.

 I agree, and yet is seems that many dont think it is that bad. it is a betrayal by the user of porn of his spouse everytime that he does it and a horrible one at that. It is committing adultery on your heart by choice over and over and over again, possibly hundreds and  hundreds of times, with hundreds of people..

[chosenone]

I'm sorry but you cannot say that 97% of Christian guys look at porn. That is just simply not true. My husband never looks at porn and nor did my first husband and neither does my adult son. I have many Christian female friends and none of their husband do either.The only case that I know of personally was a Christian lady whose non Christian husband was looking at porn and they are now divorced.

Please don't take this as a knock on you, but I work with men that view porn daily and their wife and family would walk through fire to say, "My husband would never look at porn". They believe what they are being told, and what they are being told is a lie.

Just because a guy doesn't look at it on the home computer, that doesn't mean he can't see it else where. (Internet cafes, work, library, etc...)

As sad as it is, some men would rather lie to their spouse than disappoint their spouse. For most men, definitely Christian men, porn is a no no. Looked down on.

I am not saying that all men look at porn. I don't. But I would never say I haven't either.

Sorry to say this but it  makes me ill to think of all the lies and betrayel happening within marriages.  Why get married if it's just a bunch of lies you can't help but ask sometimes.

 have to agree. In marriage there should be openess and honesty and not deception and lies. Thank God that I have an honest man.

[chosenone]

Isn't a tiny thing to say definitively that the Holy Spirit withdraws from someone based on the words of others, but not the Word of God.  Neither is it a tiny thing to say demons can be transmitted via sinful sexual behavior, etc,etc.

I agree. However, I think this is the issue that will plague us (Christians) until we are laying at the feet of Jesus in Heaven.

We know that a sin is a sin. There really is no "scale" when it comes to sin. Not in Gods eyes anyway. We have a hard time looking at sin that way. But to God, a liar is the same as a murderer. An adulterer is the same as a thief. And so on, and so on...

What we have to come to grips with is this, Can we openly sin, daily, and expect the Lord to stay (dwell) with in us? What you see as truth really depends on your "Denominational" teachings and beliefs. You have the once saved always saved crowd. Then you have the crowd that believes salvation is given (earned) upon death as long as you have fought the good fight. You have people who believe that as long as you treat others as you want to be treated, all is good.

Who is right and who is wrong? For me, it is like this. I believe the Lord dwells within us. I believe we are all sinners. I believe that when we sin, the Holy Spirit within us is grieved. That is why we are convicted in our thoughts and prayers. However, I do not believe it is possible to LIVE in sin everyday and be a saved, born again Christian. See 1 John Chapter 3.

 4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

 7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.[/b]

So, what does this mean to me? It means that if a man/woman is living in sin everyday, the same sin life(porn, adultery, etc..), they have never known the Lord. That is scriptural. I don't think the Holy Spirit flees. The bible says that He will not leave or forsake you. Once you become His child, nothing will pluck you away from Him.

Anyone who professes to be a Christian, but there is no difference in their life than that of a lost or unsaved person, something is amiss. Your life will be changed when you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.

We all sin. Yes. But if we profess to have Christ within us, living in sin is not an option.

 you put this very well mac. We can grieve the Holy Spirit by what we knowingly do that we also know full well is sinful and wrong. If we choose to ignore God, ignore others who challenge us, and ignore our own conscience, then at some point God leaves us to our own sinful life.  He longs for us to do what he says but he will not force anyone to do it even though he knows that carrying on will  mean that they may loose everything.

[Mac]

you put this very well mac. We can grieve the Holy Spirit by what we knowingly do that we also know full well is sinful and wrong. If we choose to ignore God, ignore others who challenge us, and ignore our own conscience, then at some point God leaves us to our own sinful life.  He longs for us to do what he says but he will not force anyone to do it even though he knows that carrying on will  mean that they may loose everything.

I think the difference is what you and I consider God leaving us to our sinful life. Yes, this is exactly what he does. Turns you over to a reprobate or depraved mind. But if you look at the scripture associated with this Scriptural teaching, God is talking to and about people who know right from wrong but refuse to listen. Not Christians. See here in Romans 1: 18-32 New king James uses the word reprobate, while the NIV used depraved. Same thing basically, but different words.

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The Bible goes on to tell us about the mentality of people in the last days. Talks about people with a depraved or reprobate mind. See here in 2 Timothy 3: 1-9:

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
 6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

Then in Titus (1: 5-16), we learn what the difference is between Godly people and depraved minded people when it comes to the church. Notice that Paul just told it like it was here. As far as the lack of similarities between a Godly man and one who only claims to be.

5The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. 6An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. 9He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
 10For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. 15To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

From what I read, it seems you are saying that a person "loses" the Holy Spirit when they continue to sin. But I believe that through scripture I have pointed out that these types of people do not know the Lord. ! John, Romans, Timothy, Titus... Of course there are more, but these are really good scriptures that plainly say what needs to be said.