is pornography grounds for divorce

[zoonance]

Some people are lewinskied and others are harlequined.

[betrayed]

I thought my marriage would last until Jesus came.  My husband announced to me one day that he did not love me and never did.  He stated that he was unhappy and he knew that I could not be happy because he had not hugged, kissed or touched me in quite some time.  Even though I was not pleased with what was happening in my marriage, I wanted to work it out.  I had suggested counseling to him many times and, though he said that he needed it, he refused.   One of the problems was pornography.  I discovered him on line one night I came out of my bedroom to ask him a question.  He was watching women with animals.  I was shocked and disgusted.  When I questioned him about it, he said that this was the first time he had done this since we had been married and it just popped up.  I knew that things would pop up sometimes but I, also, knew you had to click on it in order to watch it.   This was only the beginning.  His attention to me became less and less and when he did want to be with me, I felt more like his hooker instead of his wife. 

After he told me that he was not happy, he admitted that he had been involved in pornography during our entire marriage.  He stated that he only married me because of lust and the lust had worn off.  He stated that there was no passion and that is what he wanted.  He said a lot of things to me that were insulting and without feeling.  He di snot interested in reconciliation and after he told me that he has been lying to me our entire marriage, neither am I.  Marriage is sacred and it should be fought for because it is the institution that the enemy tries the hardest to tear down.  But when only one person wants that marriage, there can be no success.  My husband does not want to let go of the porn.  He prefers it over anything, even salvation.  Everytime he watched a woman beening brutalized by animal or man, he was committing adultry because he was taking part in what he was watching.  He told me that it was just for entertainment purposes and I told him that watching a woman being abused was not entertainment.  It was a sin and anyone watching it was taking part in it.  He became angry with me and continued to watch. 

[kensington]

Why are you putting words in my mouth?  Please stick to the facts and do not attribute things to me that I did not say.

I posted a definition...plain and simple.  It doesn't matter if you agree or not, that is what the word means.  You cannot change a definition just because you do not like it.

In Christ,
KP

 I am sorry. I thought that you said that pornea means actual sexual intercourse Then I thought that you said that includes lesbianism which obviously cannt be intercourse. Sexual immorality surely means more than just intercourse?. I am sure that if our spouse committed sexual acts with another we may well feel that was unfaithfullness and sexual immorality wouldnt we?

Oral sex is included... You are twisting the definition to prove you are right.  When two people sexually copulate... that is sex... intercourse.. and Porn is not.  For a man and a woman... and a woman and woman.  But, masturbation or lusting in the heart is not the sin that justifies divorce.  Not according to what Jesus said.  He addressed them separately. 

I said that porn is not sin unto divorce... you insist it is... and you said the definition covers that... and it doesn't.  K-Pappy posted the literal definition.  Which is truth.  You don't see it, because you don't want to. 

Phoebe is right, it can become an obsession and destroy a marriage,  but the use of porn itself is NOT justification for divorce.  Sorry.

[HRoberson]

Some people are lewinskied and others are harlequined.

Pretty much.

[BondServant]

Why are you putting words in my mouth?  Please stick to the facts and do not attribute things to me that I did not say.

I posted a definition...plain and simple.  It doesn't matter if you agree or not, that is what the word means.  You cannot change a definition just because you do not like it.

In Christ,
KP

 I am sorry. I thought that you said that pornea means actual sexual intercourse Then I thought that you said that includes lesbianism which obviously cannt be intercourse. Sexual immorality surely means more than just intercourse?. I am sure that if our spouse committed sexual acts with another we may well feel that was unfaithfullness and sexual immorality wouldnt we?

Here is another definition for you...pardon the language, I am quoting directly:

Intercourse - 1. Sexual act during which the penis is inserted into the partner's vagina (vaginal sex) or anus (anal sex) or mouth (oral sex). 2.  of penises and toys in the vagina and rectum. 3.  A particular town in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania in the United States.

In Christ,
KP

[Blondie]

Sahg, just responding to your post. My computer has been down.

I am glad your eyes are being opened regarding porn. It is mental adultery. Christianity is not against sex it is for sex but in marriage. Porn takes it outside marriage through the lust of the eyes. It goes further than that and goes physical in many cases without going into it.

I cannot see a future for the marriage with this going on. Anyway you know what I think and you have to do what you need to do. Try not to feed on these liberal philosophies as they are not the truth and they come from somewhere else.

Raymond

[Blondie]

Jesus spoke of faithfulness of the heart. That's what we are to live by. What we choose to do with unfaithfulness of the heart is not a legal or legalistic or even religious matter. It is a spiritual matter. Marriage has always been compared to spiritual matters. If we break trust with God and place our faith in another besides Christ, where does that leave us?

We have choices to make. We don't look to law for those choices, we look to justice, grace, and mercy.

Brilliant Phoebe. It's the spirit of it which counts and the things Chosenone is pointing out touch on this. The danger here is legalism (again). Any sex outside marriage could fall into the definition of pornea in my opinion. A wife will know it and feel it when it happens. She will know when the legitimate intimacy has been cut through by another activity.

Raymond

[Blondie]

I thought my marriage would last until Jesus came.  My husband announced to me one day that he did not love me and never did.  He stated that he was unhappy and he knew that I could not be happy because he had not hugged, kissed or touched me in quite some time.  Even though I was not pleased with what was happening in my marriage, I wanted to work it out.  I had suggested counseling to him many times and, though he said that he needed it, he refused.   One of the problems was pornography.  I discovered him on line one night I came out of my bedroom to ask him a question.  He was watching women with animals.  I was shocked and disgusted.  When I questioned him about it, he said that this was the first time he had done this since we had been married and it just popped up.  I knew that things would pop up sometimes but I, also, knew you had to click on it in order to watch it.   This was only the beginning.  His attention to me became less and less and when he did want to be with me, I felt more like his hooker instead of his wife. 

After he told me that he was not happy, he admitted that he had been involved in pornography during our entire marriage.  He stated that he only married me because of lust and the lust had worn off.  He stated that there was no passion and that is what he wanted.  He said a lot of things to me that were insulting and without feeling.  He di snot interested in reconciliation and after he told me that he has been lying to me our entire marriage, neither am I.  Marriage is sacred and it should be fought for because it is the institution that the enemy tries the hardest to tear down.  But when only one person wants that marriage, there can be no success.  My husband does not want to let go of the porn.  He prefers it over anything, even salvation.  Everytime he watched a woman beening brutalized by animal or man, he was committing adultry because he was taking part in what he was watching.  He told me that it was just for entertainment purposes and I told him that watching a woman being abused was not entertainment.  It was a sin and anyone watching it was taking part in it.  He became angry with me and continued to watch. 

Your post speaks volumes Betrayed. Who is the one who will dare lock you into this marriage using legalism? Certainly not me. May you find the person that you deserve and one who honours Him.

Raymond

[chosenone]

The only way a human being can break trust with another is through viewing pornography.

Sometimes your sarcasm is very witty and highly entertaining.  Sometimes, not so much.

Thanks.  And sorry!   My point hopefully is very clear.   If you listen to a wife's analysis of a husband's struggle they should be sensitive to a husband's analysis of the wife's struggle.  Husbands aren't wives with a penis so they aren't going to be "chicks".  That doesn't mean pornography isn't a sin that can destroy a marriage.  It is.  But trust and respect and so forth isn't limited to the self perspective analysis of the partner.  (Whatever that means!  Good grief, I am sure waxing inelloguent today)   Romance novels can destroy, Lifetime channel discussions about men can destroy, poor advise can destroy.   etc etc etc.   

However, I would far rather my spouse read a romance novel than looked at photos or films of naked people having sex and committing various types of sexual acts.

Some romance novels are about the same. 3/4 of the way back into the novel there is quite often one or more rather graphically-detailed "encounter" of a sexual type.

There really isn't much difference in the images suggested.

  however I would still far rather have  a spouse who read a romance book than one who looked at naked people acting out sexual acts on each other.

[chosenone]

Why are you putting words in my mouth?  Please stick to the facts and do not attribute things to me that I did not say.

I posted a definition...plain and simple.  It doesn't matter if you agree or not, that is what the word means.  You cannot change a definition just because you do not like it.

In Christ,
KP

 I am sorry. I thought that you said that pornea means actual sexual intercourse Then I thought that you said that includes lesbianism which obviously cannt be intercourse. Sexual immorality surely means more than just intercourse?. I am sure that if our spouse committed sexual acts with another we may well feel that was unfaithfullness and sexual immorality wouldnt we?

Oral sex is included... You are twisting the definition to prove you are right.  When two people sexually copulate... that is sex... intercourse.. and Porn is not.  For a man and a woman... and a woman and woman.  But, masturbation or lusting in the heart is not the sin that justifies divorce.  Not according to what Jesus said.  He addressed them separately.  

I said that porn is not sin unto divorce... you insist it is... and you said the definition covers that... and it doesn't.  K-Pappy posted the literal definition.  Which is truth.  You don't see it, because you don't want to.  

Phoebe is right, it can become an obsession and destroy a marriage,  but the use of porn itself is NOT justification for divorce.  Sorry.

 Maybe read the post from betrayed above to see that porn use is just as sexually immoral and damaging as oral sex or any other sexual act beween a man and a women.So a man who is looking at a film  of women having sex with animals isn't sexual immorality?

Betrayed. I cant imagine what you are going through. I can only imagine your pain and sense of total betrayal. I, like Blondie, could never suggest that you had to be tied to this man for ever. In your place I would really be praying about separation and divorce if he wont stop, or even try to. His whole idea of a loving sexual relationship has been totally damaged now, and he probably cant even be aroused by normal sex any more by the appalling things that he has been looking at. Sadly porn use does usually progress into worse and worse things and often into actual physical betrayal as well as this type .

  I know a lady who God clearly led to divorce her husband because of serious Porn use. She was a strong Christian and knew 100% that this is what she was being led to do. She also had to think of her Children who were playing in the same room as he was looking at porn in and he is now only allowed supervised access to them once a week to see them, thanks to a judge with some common sense.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to me long term porn use that is unrepentant is grounds for divorce as it is sexual immorality. None of us can prove Biblically that it is or it isn't, because Porn as we know it was never mentioned in the Bible. although even uncovering nakedness was always something very serious.  

is what the husband of 'betrayed' did not sexual immorality? I would say so.Very serious sexual immorality. I cant understand this mindset that says that there had to be one physical touch for it it be sexually immoral, or for it to be a serious betrayal of the spouse. 

[Bocephus]

The only way a human being can break trust with another is through viewing pornography.

Sometimes your sarcasm is very witty and highly entertaining.  Sometimes, not so much.

Thanks.  And sorry!   My point hopefully is very clear.   If you listen to a wife's analysis of a husband's struggle they should be sensitive to a husband's analysis of the wife's struggle.  Husbands aren't wives with a penis so they aren't going to be "chicks".  That doesn't mean pornography isn't a sin that can destroy a marriage.  It is.  But trust and respect and so forth isn't limited to the self perspective analysis of the partner.  (Whatever that means!  Good grief, I am sure waxing inelloguent today)   Romance novels can destroy, Lifetime channel discussions about men can destroy, poor advise can destroy.   etc etc etc.   

However, I would far rather my spouse read a romance novel than looked at photos or films of naked people having sex and committing various types of sexual acts.

Some romance novels are about the same. 3/4 of the way back into the novel there is quite often one or more rather graphically-detailed "encounter" of a sexual type.

There really isn't much difference in the images suggested.

  however I would still far rather have  a spouse who read a romance book than one who looked at naked people acting out sexual acts on each other.

Of course you would.  It is a more acceptable female thing to do.   Still promotes lust, no different than pornography.

[Bocephus]

I thought my marriage would last until Jesus came.  My husband announced to me one day that he did not love me and never did.  He stated that he was unhappy and he knew that I could not be happy because he had not hugged, kissed or touched me in quite some time.  Even though I was not pleased with what was happening in my marriage, I wanted to work it out.  I had suggested counseling to him many times and, though he said that he needed it, he refused.   One of the problems was pornography.  I discovered him on line one night I came out of my bedroom to ask him a question.  He was watching women with animals.  I was shocked and disgusted.  When I questioned him about it, he said that this was the first time he had done this since we had been married and it just popped up.  I knew that things would pop up sometimes but I, also, knew you had to click on it in order to watch it.   This was only the beginning.  His attention to me became less and less and when he did want to be with me, I felt more like his hooker instead of his wife. 

After he told me that he was not happy, he admitted that he had been involved in pornography during our entire marriage.  He stated that he only married me because of lust and the lust had worn off.  He stated that there was no passion and that is what he wanted.  He said a lot of things to me that were insulting and without feeling.  He di snot interested in reconciliation and after he told me that he has been lying to me our entire marriage, neither am I.  Marriage is sacred and it should be fought for because it is the institution that the enemy tries the hardest to tear down.  But when only one person wants that marriage, there can be no success.  My husband does not want to let go of the porn.  He prefers it over anything, even salvation.  Everytime he watched a woman beening brutalized by animal or man, he was committing adultry because he was taking part in what he was watching.  He told me that it was just for entertainment purposes and I told him that watching a woman being abused was not entertainment.  It was a sin and anyone watching it was taking part in it.  He became angry with me and continued to watch. 

Your post speaks volumes Betrayed. Who is the one who will dare lock you into this marriage using legalism? Certainly not me. May you find the person that you deserve and one who honours Him.

Raymond

Freedom to do what you want in the name of anti-legalism?

[zoonance]

The only way a human being can break trust with another is through viewing pornography.

Sometimes your sarcasm is very witty and highly entertaining.  Sometimes, not so much.

Thanks.  And sorry!   My point hopefully is very clear.   If you listen to a wife's analysis of a husband's struggle they should be sensitive to a husband's analysis of the wife's struggle.  Husbands aren't wives with a penis so they aren't going to be "chicks".  That doesn't mean pornography isn't a sin that can destroy a marriage.  It is.  But trust and respect and so forth isn't limited to the self perspective analysis of the partner.  (Whatever that means!  Good grief, I am sure waxing inelloguent today)   Romance novels can destroy, Lifetime channel discussions about men can destroy, poor advise can destroy.   etc etc etc.   

However, I would far rather my spouse read a romance novel than looked at photos or films of naked people having sex and committing various types of sexual acts.

Some romance novels are about the same. 3/4 of the way back into the novel there is quite often one or more rather graphically-detailed "encounter" of a sexual type.

There really isn't much difference in the images suggested.

  however I would still far rather have  a spouse who read a romance book than one who looked at naked people acting out sexual acts on each other.

Of course you would.  It is a more acceptable female thing to do.   Still promotes lust, no different than pornography.

double standards on lust, equal rights for the pulpit!

[chosenone]

The only way a human being can break trust with another is through viewing pornography.

Sometimes your sarcasm is very witty and highly entertaining.  Sometimes, not so much.

Thanks.  And sorry!   My point hopefully is very clear.   If you listen to a wife's analysis of a husband's struggle they should be sensitive to a husband's analysis of the wife's struggle.  Husbands aren't wives with a penis so they aren't going to be "chicks".  That doesn't mean pornography isn't a sin that can destroy a marriage.  It is.  But trust and respect and so forth isn't limited to the self perspective analysis of the partner.  (Whatever that means!  Good grief, I am sure waxing inelloguent today)   Romance novels can destroy, Lifetime channel discussions about men can destroy, poor advise can destroy.   etc etc etc.  

However, I would far rather my spouse read a romance novel than looked at photos or films of naked people having sex and committing various types of sexual acts.

Some romance novels are about the same. 3/4 of the way back into the novel there is quite often one or more rather graphically-detailed "encounter" of a sexual type.

There really isn't much difference in the images suggested.

  however I would still far rather have  a spouse who read a romance book than one who looked at naked people acting out sexual acts on each other.

Of course you would.  It is a more acceptable female thing to do.   Still promotes lust, no different than pornography.

 I dont do either (look at porn or read romance novels), But I am sure that any spouse would rather their spouse read a book than looked at porn.
A good romance novel doesnt always produce lust, unless it has sex scenes in it, and then it is wrong to read anyway.  I see reading romance novels or watching historical romances inadvisable becuase they can make someone have an unrealistic expectation of their spouse rather then becuase it makes them lust.
However I cant see the comparison being similar. Ask yourself what you would prefer your spouse to do. look at naked men/women committ sex acts or read  a book?.  Ask those women who have posted on here in despair which they would prefer.

[chosenone]

Those of you who dont think that longterm and constant porn use is sexual immorality, and there fore isnt grounds for divorce, what would they advise a woman whose life is in tatters becuase of that (and like my friend who may also need to protect their children from it also), what it their advice?
. Stay in a deplorable situation? Or seperate but have to stay joined to the man forever?