is pornography grounds for divorce

[sahg]

You see I dont care what you tell me becasue I am a very intellegent individual who can read the scripture for myself, I know what the scripture says and im not adding to it.  It says do not withhold from one and other sexually (so unless you dont believe oral sex is sex, in which case this becomes a very differnet discussion) withholding oral sex is still withholding a type of sex and it is defrauding your spouse out of what is rightfully theres.  The passage then goes on to say that if you do, you cause your spouse to potentially commit adultry (ie stumble).  It is a very simple scripture.

Am I understanding you correctly ?
Are you saying that if the wife IS submitting sexually to her husbands needs, but just isnt doing OS, that SHE is CAUSING him to be a letch and go get it elsewhere ?

Im sorry, but while I dont see where we have any scriptural reason to stick our noses into what SORT (OS, AS) of sex a marriage man and woman partake of in the privacy of their bedroom, I really dont see where scripture would even remotely claim that since she ISNT actually depriving her husband sexually, that somehow she is responsible of he cant control himself in his demands for some other sort of sex.

So if the wife gets her sexual jollies sticking forks into the male anatomy, isnt it 'depriving' her if he refuses ?

FoC, thats funny, i needed a laugh!  

[rppearso]

Ok lets just get this out in the open, what do you consider perverted?  I believe that is key to understanding the issue.  BTW I am not pridefull or bitter I am just frustrated with the man bashing that goes on in chruch and people using the bible as an excuse to be a prude.  If you want out of the relationship this badly why dont you just ask for a divorce and move on with your life and start looking for the man you want.

"certain sex acts are ok if both spouses are consenting " - this phrase is used alot in chruch and is not biblical.  The sex act need to become ok if even one spouse wants it 1 cor 7, show me the scripture that requires both to concent.

I am not condoning what your husband does but if you are being a prude it makes it exponentially more difficult for him to function properly in the marraige and makes counseling much much more likely to fail.

wow, i didn't think this would get to be such a heated discussion. i thank all of you for your input.there are some things i would like to make clear, i am not the perfect christian or the perfect wife, it does take two. i don't mean to bash my husband, i didn't think i was, i don't wan to disrespect him. i am just troubled by his porn veiwing and girl watching and his denial about it, i know Gods word says if a man lusts after a woman he has commited adultry in his heart, is that the same as physical adultry? and grounds for divorce?  as much as my husband hurt me and seems to be non repentive, i can't hate him. he said he apologises for all the hurt he caused me, but his apologies were bitter with anger.  i don't know if my husband is hurt by any of this he shows no emotion about anything, nothing seems to bother him. is that just how men are?he has always been in his own world looking out for himself,. i married him thinking he was saved, after living with him for all these years and learning Gods word and growing, i see he has no fruit of the spirit, you know a christian by their fruits. it's amazing how you really don't know a person until you have lived with them a number of years. i desperatly wanted a marriage like the bible speaks of, i tried to be the wife God wanted me to be, i wasn't perfect but i tried to be, i know i shouldn't have denied my husband of sex, but i told him the way i felt about certain sex acts and about the constant fondling through out the day how it made me feel so he would understand and respect me, but it continued, i was forcing myself to have sex with him to be obedient to the Lord, emotionally i began to die inside and became very depressed for a few years, i couldn't understand what was happening to me, i had completely blamed myself for the failed sexual relationship wondering what was wrong with me, he was blaming me too.this past year i found he has been into porn on the internet. i did some research on how porn will damage the christian marriage bed and it has, it was like i was reading about myself, God revealed to me that the way i felt about sex with my husband was was right, it wasn't my falt. certain sex acts are ok if both spouses are consenting , and it shouldn't get perveted and no one shoud be forced into anything perverted. he won't admit he has a problem. my husband was exposed to porn as a child and grew up with it, i think he has a problem he dosn't want to deal with, and it has ruined  our marriage, i believe sex is so important in a marriage and i have heard it can be a beutiful thing, iwouln't know. for all you men who cherish their wives and respect them, i hope your wives take a moment to be thankful for you, what a blessing to have a godly husband. i have a few words for mr.rppearso, you have some similarities to my husband, only more intense, you seem so bitter and arrogant and that is so unnatractive in a man,God hates pride. i can't help but wonder if your just here to get a rise out of us christians just for fun or do you really mean all the things you say. your issues about sex in the marriage are very disturbing, similar atitude as my husband, were you exposed to porn as a child? if so you need counseling. most of all from reading your posts i think you are in need of a savior.life is short here on earth, don't you see the world and what is going on around us? Jesus is comming soon. i'm not going to be left behind. my husband has turned his back on Christ, thats his choice, as well as yours. i will pray for you tonight, perhaps the rest of should do the same.

[Mac]

The sex act need to become ok if even one spouse wants it 1 cor 7, show me the scripture that requires both to concent.

Yea, that's it. Just force her too. It doesn't matter what she wants or how it makes her feel...  

Yep, that right there is the loving spirit of Christ. I can feel in y'all.. Can't you?

[rppearso]

You still failed to deliver on the scripture.  If a woman is going to act melo dramatic when it comes to sex acts she should not be getting married at all.

The sex act need to become ok if even one spouse wants it 1 cor 7, show me the scripture that requires both to concent.

Yea, that's it. Just force her too. It doesn't matter what she wants or how it makes her feel...  

Yep, that right there is the loving spirit of Christ. I can feel in y'all.. Can't you?

[Mac]

You still failed to deliver on the scripture.  If a woman is going to act melo dramatic when it comes to sex acts she should not be getting married at all.

I beg to differ Sir. I most certainly did provide scripture for you. It is in Ephesians 5. Here I will show it to you... Again.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Look at this as well... Ephesians 5

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.

[Mac]

If a woman is going to act melo dramatic when it comes to sex acts she should not be getting married at all.

Good grief man. You act like that is the only reason you were married to her. YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE LOVED HER..

I mean what in the world would you have done if she would have became incapacitated for some reason? Rape her? Divorce her? Adultery? What would you have done?

[rppearso]

None of that is in a sexual context except the following "3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity" do you think you maintain sexual pruity in the marriage by being a prude, you cause your spouse to stumble 1 cor 7.

"each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband." do you notice the word AND, if the AND breaks down the marriage breaks down, no husband wants to love a wife who does not respect him and vis versa, however the chruch is quick to quote husbands love your wives but wives respect your husbands gets left by the way side because of feminism.  I do not believe God is happy with the convoluded standards and catch 22's the chruch is setting up.

You still failed to deliver on the scripture.  If a woman is going to act melo dramatic when it comes to sex acts she should not be getting married at all.

I beg to differ Sir. I most certainly did provide scripture for you. It is in Ephesians 5. Here I will show it to you... Again.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Look at this as well... Ephesians 5

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.

[FoC]

Can I take that as a dodge of the question ?

"So if the wife gets her sexual jollies sticking forks into the male anatomy, isnt it 'depriving' her if he refuses ?"

There is a word I heard on the big bang theory that sheldon stated where one takes a reasonable discussion to an unrealistic conclusion when they were refering to emergency supplies and how an extra person in the house would deprive them of emergency supplies and lenord said yea and then we would all become man eating canibals.  Anyways I wish I remembered that word because it applies here.  Let me know if you can think of that word.

You see I dont care what you tell me becasue I am a very intellegent individual who can read the scripture for myself, I know what the scripture says and im not adding to it.  It says do not withhold from one and other sexually (so unless you dont believe oral sex is sex, in which case this becomes a very differnet discussion) withholding oral sex is still withholding a type of sex and it is defrauding your spouse out of what is rightfully theres.  The passage then goes on to say that if you do, you cause your spouse to potentially commit adultry (ie stumble).  It is a very simple scripture.

Am I understanding you correctly ?
Are you saying that if the wife IS submitting sexually to her husbands needs, but just isnt doing OS, that SHE is CAUSING him to be a letch and go get it elsewhere ?

Im sorry, but while I dont see where we have any scriptural reason to stick our noses into what SORT (OS, AS) of sex a marriage man and woman partake of in the privacy of their bedroom, I really dont see where scripture would even remotely claim that since she ISNT actually depriving her husband sexually, that somehow she is responsible of he cant control himself in his demands for some other sort of sex.

So if the wife gets her sexual jollies sticking forks into the male anatomy, isnt it 'depriving' her if he refuses ?

[FoC]

honestly, it would not surprise me to find that youd be brought up on rape charges at some later date based on your complete misuse of scripture.
It OUGHT NOT have to TELL you that BOTH persons must CONSENT to the sexual act, friend. If you have to be told that then something is VERY wrong with your thinking.

"certain sex acts are ok if both spouses are consenting " - this phrase is used alot in chruch and is not biblical.  The sex act need to become ok if even one spouse wants it 1 cor 7, show me the scripture that requires both to concent.

[FoC]

If EITHER person cannot live up to the responsibilities of marriage and are ABLE to do so, then man or woman, they should not be dragging another person into a marriage with them.
Women neglect the sexual needs of husbands, husband neglect the emotional needs of the wife. BOTH are maritally destructive.
So...do you meet ALL of the needs of YOUR spouse as THEY define them (not you) ?

You still failed to deliver on the scripture.  If a woman is going to act melo dramatic when it comes to sex acts she should not be getting married at all.

[FoC]

by the way, rppearso, there is NO defined prohibition against oral sex or the other in scripture.
There IS restriction against lying with a woman during her period, so its VERY odd that God didnt feel the necessity to restrict them otherwise in any direct manner.
Each married couple is responsible for their own sexual relationship and frankly, ought not be airing their laundry out in a forum like this. Its just asking for folks to disagree with them

[chosenone]

I cant buy into something that I dont believe to be true no matter how many people tell me it.  I dont care if 100 people told me 1+1 = 3 I would not believe them.

I dont need to argue with God, because the scripture is very clear to me.  I know I have things to sort out and that im not perfect but these are just warnings from my last relationship, as I said the OP can do whatever she wants.

The scriptures are clear to satan as well. And yet he twists them every chance he gets doesn't he? You are being lied to by the enemy rppearso. You came to this forum, and this is quite possibly God's last attempt to get your attention. His children have revealed His Truth to you. Do you stand with God...or with yourself?

You said it right, in that you will not believe what the truth is becuase you dont want to,as then you would have to stop having sex till you are married to a christian girl. THAT is the crux of the matter.Having you particular sexual needs met to you is absulutely everything and it comes first even before God. You need to make a choice but sadly you have made it and it is the wrong one. Dont say we didnt warn you.
I have seen people choose what THEY want before obeying God many times and it never ends well. He tells us not to do things for a reason, and for our own good. I can almost see what your future will be and unless you start to go Gods way it will not be good, it rarely is unless we change our ways.

Maybe she would not be lonely if she did not prude out, all things have natural consequences.  You are just talking in circles at this point, God does not call us to foolishness, would you continue to allow someone into your house that continually stole from you?  You can forgive them but that does not mean you let them keep the key, are you really that foolish?

Well we will see how it plays out then, I am guessing she will remain in her stance and we will see where that takes her. 

She has already said she will remain faithful to him even though she is lonely. Oh, my... Can you imagine... She actually intends on suffering for another... Wow. What a foreign concept.

What about the hurt in your eyes from her neglect, of course that does not count and the mans feelings are irrelavant right Mac, if that is how you choose to live thats your choise dont try to spin things and bold print buzz words like selfishness. 

 Our job is not to seek vengeance. Only to live our life as Christ instructed us too. Even if I were married to a bad person, it wouldn't change the fact that I am to continue to live my life for the Lord. You can't reconcile your thoughts or actions with Scripture.

Selfishness is wanting something without returning the favor, there is only so much one can take of giving and never gettting back before you start to have serious problems in the relationship but of course in the chruch this is only one sided in favor of the woman right Mac.

All I can say is, you better be thankful that Jesus didn't feel the way you do. He died on that cross for people who neglect and reject Him daily. Christ is Love. I hope you find it.

 The word that you overuse and use wrongly more than any other is prude. if anyone whether man or women does not agree with you, then they are a prude. if anyone says that you are sinning sexually, or that your incessant demands for certain sexual acts is wrong they are a prude. Well who cares if I am called a prude, from you I take that as a compliment actually, as then God must also be a prude. So tell Him that and see what he says.

[chosenone]

You still failed to deliver on the scripture.  If a woman is going to act melo dramatic when it comes to sex acts she should not be getting married at all.

The sex act need to become ok if even one spouse wants it 1 cor 7, show me the scripture that requires both to concent.

Yea, that's it. Just force her too. It doesn't matter what she wants or how it makes her feel...  

Yep, that right there is the loving spirit of Christ. I can feel in y'all.. Can't you?

 you keep quoting that one scripture which says nothing about anyone having to have anal or oral sex as if it justifies what you are doing. it doesnt. You are clinging on to that one verse as if it is a life line, but it isnt. many of us have said what the Bible says about sex, about marriage etc etc but you ignore it. You accuse us of not quoting the Bible, yet you ignore the verses  that say you must not committ adultery, you must not have sex before marriage. You justify that by saying well everyone else does it(wrong). We could justify anything by saying that everyone else does it.
You so desperately need to acknowledge you part in all of your problems instead of which you are blaming the church, women, this forum, the divorce process and anything and anyone else that you can think of. it wont wash with God, we all have to acknowledge our own sins before God and repent and then stop doing them and then will he forgve us.

[chosenone]

"Let him (or her) who is without sin throw the first stone."

I love the stone verse out of context. Especially when a professing Christian tells me I'm not allowed to highlight that they are living in sin. I'm supposed to keep it to myself apparently.

No, I wasn't suggesting that anyone remain silent about his sin or not try to help him overcome it. It's a bad thing and does lots of psychological harm to everyone involved. I was merely suggesting that "divorce him!" was perhaps a bit extreme. It seems that society usually pushes guys to stick it out no matter what their wife has done to them, yet it's common for folks, even here, to encourage a woman to leave her husband for many things which are not Biblical grounds for divorce.

I'm just saying that everyone is imperfect and will do bad things so our first reaction should be to stick with them, work through it and keep our vows even during those times when it is "for worse."

 

she says that she has proof that he has committed adultery, that is reason for divorce.
yes we should help people overcome their problems but only if they recognise that they have them, which he doesnt. he says that everyone else is the cause of all his problems including God for making us go without sex which is unreasonable, according to him.

[chosenone]

wow, i didn't think this would get to be such a heated discussion. i thank all of you for your input.there are some things i would like to make clear, i am not the perfect christian or the perfect wife, it does take two. i don't mean to bash my husband, i didn't think i was, i don't wan to disrespect him. i am just troubled by his porn veiwing and girl watching and his denial about it, i know Gods word says if a man lusts after a woman he has commited adultry in his heart, is that the same as physical adultry? and grounds for divorce?  as much as my husband hurt me and seems to be non repentive, i can't hate him. he said he apologises for all the hurt he caused me, but his apologies were bitter with anger.  i don't know if my husband is hurt by any of this he shows no emotion about anything, nothing seems to bother him. is that just how men are?he has always been in his own world looking out for himself,. i married him thinking he was saved, after living with him for all these years and learning Gods word and growing, i see he has no fruit of the spirit, you know a christian by their fruits. it's amazing how you really don't know a person until you have lived with them a number of years. i desperatly wanted a marriage like the bible speaks of, i tried to be the wife God wanted me to be, i wasn't perfect but i tried to be, i know i shouldn't have denied my husband of sex, but i told him the way i felt about certain sex acts and about the constant fondling through out the day how it made me feel so he would understand and respect me, but it continued, i was forcing myself to have sex with him to be obedient to the Lord, emotionally i began to die inside and became very depressed for a few years, i couldn't understand what was happening to me, i had completely blamed myself for the failed sexual relationship wondering what was wrong with me, he was blaming me too.this past year i found he has been into porn on the internet. i did some research on how porn will damage the christian marriage bed and it has, it was like i was reading about myself, God revealed to me that the way i felt about sex with my husband was was right, it wasn't my falt. certain sex acts are ok if both spouses are consenting , and it shouldn't get perveted and no one shoud be forced into anything perverted. he won't admit he has a problem. my husband was exposed to porn as a child and grew up with it, i think he has a problem he dosn't want to deal with, and it has ruined  our marriage, i believe sex is so important in a marriage and i have heard it can be a beutiful thing, iwouln't know. for all you men who cherish their wives and respect them, i hope your wives take a moment to be thankful for you, what a blessing to have a godly husband. i have a few words for mr.rppearso, you have some similarities to my husband, only more intense, you seem so bitter and arrogant and that is so unnatractive in a man,God hates pride. i can't help but wonder if your just here to get a rise out of us christians just for fun or do you really mean all the things you say. your issues about sex in the marriage are very disturbing, similar atitude as my husband, were you exposed to porn as a child? if so you need counseling. most of all from reading your posts i think you are in need of a savior.life is short here on earth, don't you see the world and what is going on around us? Jesus is comming soon. i'm not going to be left behind. my husband has turned his back on Christ, thats his choice, as well as yours. i will pray for you tonight, perhaps the rest of should do the same.

 

sahg yes I agree that we do need to pary for rppearso and I have been . He is very bitter and resentful and that eats you up from the inside. Also about what you said, I do thank God very often for my godly husband who respects and loves me. I am truly a blessed women and I know it.