is pornography grounds for divorce

[chosenone]

hmm is there more to this story we dont know about.  Why are you separated?  Why is he looking for someone else?

 


I realize there may be more to the story, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.  However, I can see why some people do stray, doesn't make it right....but one can see.   

wouldent being a prude in marriage be sexual imorallity?  Of course feminists will dismiss this because women dont have to do anything they dont want to do but men have to roll over

Yes we are supposed to submit to each other and that our body isn't our own..so to speak.  But we also make a vow to love, honor and cherish each other and part of that is respecting the other person's right to say no.  However, sex shouldn't be withheld all the time.  I agree with you on that one.  I guess I can see both sides.  If you don't take care of your spouse then someone else could....that's not right, but that is a reason for both spouses to take care of each other in all manners.

 Courtgirl, his idea of being a prude isnt not having sexual intercourse but any woman who wont have very frequent anal or oral sex.
It is wrong to withhold sexual intercourse from our spouse, but if they want things that their spouses cannot bring themsleves to do whether it be becuse they feel that God has told them or whether it makes them feel really uncomfortable or uneasy inside they shouldnt have to do that. Sex can be extreemly varied without those things HAVING to be included if it makes one of the partners really unhappy.
 

[chosenone]

I've noticed that when it's the man who does something wrong in marriage, many here are quick to yell "divorce!" and vilinize him.

I guess I'm wondering about that quote from Jesus where he said, "Let him (or her) who is without sin throw the first stone."

 

if this poster had been from a man stating that his wife was probably having an affair, going onto sites to fine a man friend and looking at porn, then my  answer would have been the same. It doesnt matter to me whether it is the man or women who is being unfaithful or comitting sexual sin it is still wrong regardless.

[rppearso]

You are just spinning and blathering, I noticed you added a so to speak in one of your posts on a key issue.  your interpretation of 1 cor 7 is not what is stated, sexual intercourse is not the only kind of sex and it is not stated exclusivly witholding anything that causes your mate to stumble is a sin.  The sexual intercourse bit is just your opinion. 

I've noticed that when it's the man who does something wrong in marriage, many here are quick to yell "divorce!" and vilinize him.

I guess I'm wondering about that quote from Jesus where he said, "Let him (or her) who is without sin throw the first stone."

 

if this poster had been from a man stating that his wife was probably having an affair, going onto sites to fine a man friend and looking at porn, then my  answer would have been the same. It doesnt matter to me whether it is the man or women who is being unfaithful or comitting sexual sin it is still wrong regardless.

[Bocephus]

I've noticed that when it's the man who does something wrong in marriage, many here are quick to yell "divorce!" and vilinize him.

I guess I'm wondering about that quote from Jesus where he said, "Let him (or her) who is without sin throw the first stone."

 

if this poster had been from a man stating that his wife was probably having an affair, going onto sites to fine a man friend and looking at porn, then my  answer would have been the same. It doesnt matter to me whether it is the man or women who is being unfaithful or comitting sexual sin it is still wrong regardless.

I think his point transcends just this one type of offense.

[chosenone]

The word Jesus uses isnt adultery it is pornea. That word means many different types of sexual immorality apart from adultery, therefore it cant be said that adultery alone is the reason for divorce.
Also if the porn use damages the wife, of course it damages the marriage as well. Using porn is both very spiritually damaging to one doing it and is also very damaging to their spouse, so how can this possibly not damage the marriage itself.?

Yes, I know what the word is. It's been consistently translated as adultery for a couple millennia. I'm not sure that the word being pornea allows us to cram whatever we want into it for the purpose of authorizing leaving your mate.

My distinction between harming the marriage, and hurting the spouse, is that the marriage is an institution. Some folks don't mind ticking off an institution, but might think twice if they realize they're actually harming their spouse. When I do marriage counseling, I don't focus on the social institution of marriage, I focus on the two people caring for one another. If they can't bring themselves to do that, then there's no reason to be married.

The "marriage" is an outgrowth of the supposed commitment they have for one another. But the point isn't the marriage as a "thing," it is their relationship to and treatment of their spouse.

 

Is looking at porn a sin? if it is, is it a sexual sin? Pornea is used elsewhere in the Bible for other sexual sins apart from adultery. Porn is very damaging for a marriage and has broken up many marriages. If it isnt sexual sin (ie pornea) then what is it?

[Bocephus]

The word Jesus uses isnt adultery it is pornea. That word means many different types of sexual immorality apart from adultery, therefore it cant be said that adultery alone is the reason for divorce.
Also if the porn use damages the wife, of course it damages the marriage as well. Using porn is both very spiritually damaging to one doing it and is also very damaging to their spouse, so how can this possibly not damage the marriage itself.?

Yes, I know what the word is. It's been consistently translated as adultery for a couple millennia. I'm not sure that the word being pornea allows us to cram whatever we want into it for the purpose of authorizing leaving your mate.

My distinction between harming the marriage, and hurting the spouse, is that the marriage is an institution. Some folks don't mind ticking off an institution, but might think twice if they realize they're actually harming their spouse. When I do marriage counseling, I don't focus on the social institution of marriage, I focus on the two people caring for one another. If they can't bring themselves to do that, then there's no reason to be married.

The "marriage" is an outgrowth of the supposed commitment they have for one another. But the point isn't the marriage as a "thing," it is their relationship to and treatment of their spouse.

 

Is looking at porn a sin? if it is, is it a sexual sin? Pornea is used elsewhere in the Bible for other sexual sins apart from adultery. Porn is very damaging for a marriage and has broken up many marriages. If it isnt sexual sin (ie pornea) then what is it?

If lust is indeed actual adultery, and grounds for divorce that vast majority of men AND women have grounds to file for divorce right now.

[HRoberson]

The word Jesus uses isnt adultery it is pornea. That word means many different types of sexual immorality apart from adultery, therefore it cant be said that adultery alone is the reason for divorce.
Also if the porn use damages the wife, of course it damages the marriage as well. Using porn is both very spiritually damaging to one doing it and is also very damaging to their spouse, so how can this possibly not damage the marriage itself.?

Yes, I know what the word is. It's been consistently translated as adultery for a couple millennia. I'm not sure that the word being pornea allows us to cram whatever we want into it for the purpose of authorizing leaving your mate.

My distinction between harming the marriage, and hurting the spouse, is that the marriage is an institution. Some folks don't mind ticking off an institution, but might think twice if they realize they're actually harming their spouse. When I do marriage counseling, I don't focus on the social institution of marriage, I focus on the two people caring for one another. If they can't bring themselves to do that, then there's no reason to be married.

The "marriage" is an outgrowth of the supposed commitment they have for one another. But the point isn't the marriage as a "thing," it is their relationship to and treatment of their spouse.

 

Is looking at porn a sin? if it is, is it a sexual sin? Pornea is used elsewhere in the Bible for other sexual sins apart from adultery. Porn is very damaging for a marriage and has broken up many marriages. If it isnt sexual sin (ie pornea) then what is it?

Sin? Yes.

I know how pornea is used. How has the church translated our favorite passage since the first century?

It may be sexual sin, but it does not rise to the level that "authorizes" divorcing your mate.

It remains that, even if we can squeeze whatever sexual sin we please into an authorization to jettison your spouse, that still is not to be the first choice.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I've noticed that when it's the man who does something wrong in marriage, many here are quick to yell "divorce!" and vilinize him.

I guess I'm wondering about that quote from Jesus where he said, "Let him (or her) who is without sin throw the first stone."

Oh well that was about a woman, so it's different.

[chosenone]

The word Jesus uses isnt adultery it is pornea. That word means many different types of sexual immorality apart from adultery, therefore it cant be said that adultery alone is the reason for divorce.
Also if the porn use damages the wife, of course it damages the marriage as well. Using porn is both very spiritually damaging to one doing it and is also very damaging to their spouse, so how can this possibly not damage the marriage itself.?

Yes, I know what the word is. It's been consistently translated as adultery for a couple millennia. I'm not sure that the word being pornea allows us to cram whatever we want into it for the purpose of authorizing leaving your mate.

My distinction between harming the marriage, and hurting the spouse, is that the marriage is an institution. Some folks don't mind ticking off an institution, but might think twice if they realize they're actually harming their spouse. When I do marriage counseling, I don't focus on the social institution of marriage, I focus on the two people caring for one another. If they can't bring themselves to do that, then there's no reason to be married.

The "marriage" is an outgrowth of the supposed commitment they have for one another. But the point isn't the marriage as a "thing," it is their relationship to and treatment of their spouse.

 

Is looking at porn a sin? if it is, is it a sexual sin? Pornea is used elsewhere in the Bible for other sexual sins apart from adultery. Porn is very damaging for a marriage and has broken up many marriages. If it isnt sexual sin (ie pornea) then what is it?

Sin? Yes.

I know how pornea is used. How has the church translated our favorite passage since the first century?

It may be sexual sin, but it does not rise to the level that "authorizes" divorcing your mate.

It remains that, even if we can squeeze whatever sexual sin we please into an authorization to jettison your spouse, that still is not to be the first choice.

 totally agree HR,
divorcing anyone  should never be a first choice, but for a spouse who is into serious sexual sin and is totally unrepentant and not willing to even try to stop, there may eventually be little alternative sadly. After deep betrayal some cannot ever trust their spouse again and without trust what is there?
 

[courtgirl72]

hmm is there more to this story we dont know about.  Why are you separated?  Why is he looking for someone else?

 


I realize there may be more to the story, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.  However, I can see why some people do stray, doesn't make it right....but one can see.   

wouldent being a prude in marriage be sexual imorallity?  Of course feminists will dismiss this because women dont have to do anything they dont want to do but men have to roll over

Yes we are supposed to submit to each other and that our body isn't our own..so to speak.  But we also make a vow to love, honor and cherish each other and part of that is respecting the other person's right to say no.  However, sex shouldn't be withheld all the time.  I agree with you on that one.  I guess I can see both sides.  If you don't take care of your spouse then someone else could....that's not right, but that is a reason for both spouses to take care of each other in all manners.

 Courtgirl, his idea of being a prude isnt not having sexual intercourse but any woman who wont have very frequent anal or oral sex.
It is wrong to withhold sexual intercourse from our spouse, but if they want things that their spouses cannot bring themsleves to do whether it be becuse they feel that God has told them or whether it makes them feel really uncomfortable or uneasy inside they shouldnt have to do that. Sex can be extreemly varied without those things HAVING to be included if it makes one of the partners really unhappy.
 

I am not disagreeing with you or saying adultery is right.  I just said that I understand why people fail in that regard...I am not condoning it.  If you are to that point where you think you need to get it elsewhere, that spouse should realize there is a problem and try to talk to their spouse or get christian counseling.  I agree that there are certain things that would make people uncomfortable...like the above stated things.  No one has the right to make you do that or make you feel like less of a spouse for doing that.  A real husband or wife shouldn't want to make their spouse uncomfortable.   

[rppearso]

What you just stated is a catch 22, what if he needs you to do something you dont want to do and it has gotten to the point he is looking else where for it, do you think conseling will help you want to do it or make him not want it anymore?

hmm is there more to this story we dont know about.  Why are you separated?  Why is he looking for someone else?

 


I realize there may be more to the story, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.  However, I can see why some people do stray, doesn't make it right....but one can see.   

wouldent being a prude in marriage be sexual imorallity?  Of course feminists will dismiss this because women dont have to do anything they dont want to do but men have to roll over

Yes we are supposed to submit to each other and that our body isn't our own..so to speak.  But we also make a vow to love, honor and cherish each other and part of that is respecting the other person's right to say no.  However, sex shouldn't be withheld all the time.  I agree with you on that one.  I guess I can see both sides.  If you don't take care of your spouse then someone else could....that's not right, but that is a reason for both spouses to take care of each other in all manners.

 Courtgirl, his idea of being a prude isnt not having sexual intercourse but any woman who wont have very frequent anal or oral sex.
It is wrong to withhold sexual intercourse from our spouse, but if they want things that their spouses cannot bring themsleves to do whether it be becuse they feel that God has told them or whether it makes them feel really uncomfortable or uneasy inside they shouldnt have to do that. Sex can be extreemly varied without those things HAVING to be included if it makes one of the partners really unhappy.
 

I am not disagreeing with you or saying adultery is right.  I just said that I understand why people fail in that regard...I am not condoning it.  If you are to that point where you think you need to get it elsewhere, that spouse should realize there is a problem and try to talk to their spouse or get christian counseling.  I agree that there are certain things that would make people uncomfortable...like the above stated things.  No one has the right to make you do that or make you feel like less of a spouse for doing that.  A real husband or wife shouldn't want to make their spouse uncomfortable.   

[courtgirl72]

A man or a woman is not a prude for not wanting oral/anal sex.....I guess you think you own your wife and she must obey even if it makes her uncomfortable, if it does then she is a prude...she is not.....she is the one you should most want to make comfortable.

[chosenone]

A man or a woman is not a prude for not wanting oral/anal sex.....I guess you think you own your wife and she must obey even if it makes her uncomfortable, if it does then she is a prude...she is not.....she is the one you should most want to make comfortable.

 spot on courtgirl.

[Quinn]

i am a born again christian, my husband says he is born again talks the talk when needed but dosen't walk the walk. our marriage has failed and we are recently separated, he became very bitter to me and couldn't make eye contact with me, i found evedence of adultry he says he never has, i found he was on dating pages and seeking local women, i don't know if he acctually met any of them, the evedence says yes, but no actual proof, then later on i found he was on free porn sites and talking dirty with them, i couldn't believe what i learned, he dosn't know that i saw what he has been doing, he  says he dosn't look at porn or lust after young girls, is what he's doing grounds for divorce? if there is no actual physical contact? or is it just adultry in his heart, and also how he can lie to me and look me in the eyes and say honest before God i haven't cheated on you or lust after young girls, how do i stay in a marriage with someone i can't trust or believe, our marriage bed has always been a problem too, he was always trying to blame me, but i have learned how porn can desrtoy the christian marriage bed and i don't believe it to be my fault. it really makes me sick inside to know his secret lifestyle. is any of this grounds for divorce? nothing is in the works yet just separation.

Well, I very rarely post, mainly because no matter what one posts, someone will disagree with you to the point of insult, and I’m just too sensitive for that.  But here I go anyway.

My ex-husband was into porn and other “non-participatory” sexual activities (such as going to strip joints and topless bars) long before I met him.  He is not just a Christian, BTW, but a former minister, a teacher, and a counselor.  For him, it was an addiction - a control issue – he just couldn’t stop himself.  And before anyone says it, no, it wasn’t because he didn’t have a willing sexual partner at home.  Very much the opposite.
 
His actions never “crossed the line” into what most people would define as “adultery”, but between what he did, the lies he told about it, and the money he spent on it, he effectively destroyed our marriage.
 
In case anyone wonders, I did not give up on my marriage quickly or easily.  I dealt with his mess for twelve years, forgiving and starting over countless times.  But there came a point when I simply had to protect myself and my children from the pervasive consequences of his selfish actions.

It is not possible to have an effective marriage if there is no trust.  It doesn’t matter a bit to me whether anyone thinks I had “grounds” for divorce.  For me it was a matter of survival.

[chosenone]

i am a born again christian, my husband says he is born again talks the talk when needed but dosen't walk the walk. our marriage has failed and we are recently separated, he became very bitter to me and couldn't make eye contact with me, i found evedence of adultry he says he never has, i found he was on dating pages and seeking local women, i don't know if he acctually met any of them, the evedence says yes, but no actual proof, then later on i found he was on free porn sites and talking dirty with them, i couldn't believe what i learned, he dosn't know that i saw what he has been doing, he  says he dosn't look at porn or lust after young girls, is what he's doing grounds for divorce? if there is no actual physical contact? or is it just adultry in his heart, and also how he can lie to me and look me in the eyes and say honest before God i haven't cheated on you or lust after young girls, how do i stay in a marriage with someone i can't trust or believe, our marriage bed has always been a problem too, he was always trying to blame me, but i have learned how porn can desrtoy the christian marriage bed and i don't believe it to be my fault. it really makes me sick inside to know his secret lifestyle. is any of this grounds for divorce? nothing is in the works yet just separation.

Well, I very rarely post, mainly because no matter what one posts, someone will disagree with you to the point of insult, and I’m just too sensitive for that.  But here I go anyway.

My ex-husband was into porn and other “non-participatory” sexual activities (such as going to strip joints and topless bars) long before I met him.  He is not just a Christian, BTW, but a former minister, a teacher, and a counselor.  For him, it was an addiction - a control issue – he just couldn’t stop himself.  And before anyone says it, no, it wasn’t because he didn’t have a willing sexual partner at home.  Very much the opposite.
 
His actions never “crossed the line” into what most people would define as “adultery”, but between what he did, the lies he told about it, and the money he spent on it, he effectively destroyed our marriage.
 
In case anyone wonders, I did not give up on my marriage quickly or easily.  I dealt with his mess for twelve years, forgiving and starting over countless times.  But there came a point when I simply had to protect myself and my children from the pervasive consequences of his selfish actions.

It is not possible to have an effective marriage if there is no trust.  It doesn’t matter a bit to me whether anyone thinks I had “grounds” for divorce.  For me it was a matter of survival.

 Quinn
Well done for posting and yes you do have to have a bit of a tough hide to post anything here sometimes
Your story is awful and just the sort of thing I was thinking about when saying that so often these things are so destructive for both the spouse, the marriage and the children.
Also as you say it had nothing to do with whether he was having sex or not. I dont agree that most men 'have' to do this becuase their wives are not pleasing them in bed, that is a cop out. No one 'has' to do anything especially if it is sinful. We can choose to, but that is different.
As you say with no trust there is nothing.
I hope that things are better in your life now.
many men do this regardless of their sex lives, and regardless of how much is is hurting their wifes and marriages.