is pornography grounds for divorce

[rppearso]

Well we will see how it plays out then, I am guessing she will remain in her stance and we will see where that takes her.  What about the hurt in your eyes from her neglect, of course that does not count and the mans feelings are irrelavant right Mac, if that is how you choose to live thats your choise dont try to spin things and bold print buzz words like selfishness.  Selfishness is wanting something without returning the favor, there is only so much one can take of giving and never gettting back before you start to have serious problems in the relationship but of course in the chruch this is only one sided in favor of the woman right Mac.

Selfish - concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others.

Did I not say he had issues to work on as well, if only one party is working on there issues and the other is not it will fall apart, if someone is working on there part with an expectation that the other party is working on it as well that is not without regard for others.

rppearso,

This is what I see here. SELFISHNESS.

For you to say this:
"It sounds like the OP's husband adores her if he still pays that much attention to her."

My gosh man, do you have no feelings? Any at all? Whether you accept it or not this woman has been wounded because she figured out that her husband cares more about himself than he does her. Much like you and your situation. A man and a woman do not get married because they "burn with passion" as you like to say. They marry because they love each other. What is love? Let me tell you the biblical definition of love.

1 Corinthians 13.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

You may be an intelligent man, but you are ignorant to the true meaning of a husband, love and worse, the Love of Christ. You show NOTHING of Christs' love for others and trying to love your wife as Christ loved the Church. It is all about you. As long as get what you want, it is fine. Sounds to me that you have used scripture as a weapon against your wife when she denied your perverted wants. I can only imagine how you talked to her when you bring your filthy language to this forum.

Well, as far as I could tell, you found NO ONE to see it your way here. So, I guess we are all wrong for loving our spouses more than we love ourselves. We put their needs above our own. For such an intelligent man, you sure don't get much. I'll give you a hint... It's not always about you.

You know, I could get my wife to do things she wouldn't really want to do.. She would do it because she loves me. But she would lose respect for me as a man and my witness would be damaged because I cared more for my desires than I did her feelings. That is not Christ like. But I would NEVER, EVER ask my wife to do something she was not comfortable with anymore. I care for her to much. I would NEVER want my wife to look at me with hurt in her eyes. She trusted you... You don't deserve a loving wife.

And just for the record, I do not see how you can say anal sex is a natural act. I, along with many medical professionals, will certainly tell you that you are wrong. Nothing natural about it.

I need to go now, I am getting angry with you. And that isn't right either.

[fanuvmxpx]

I dont need to argue with God, because the scripture is very clear to me.  I know I have things to sort out and that im not perfect but these are just warnings from my last relationship, as I said the OP can do whatever she wants.

The scriptures are clear to satan as well. And yet he twists them every chance he gets doesn't he? You are being lied to by the enemy rppearso. You came to this forum, and this is quite possibly God's last attempt to get your attention. His children have revealed His Truth to you. Do you stand with God...or with yourself?

[fanuvmxpx]

Selfishness is wanting something without returning the favor

Incorrect. You can't even properly define a dictionary word much less the Word of God. Selfishness means self-centeredness. You only care about what you want. You don't care about how others feel. Its all about you, you, you.

Selfish is a perfect synonym for your lifestyle. Here's a link for your records: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/selfish.

[chosenone]

rppearso,

This is what I see here. SELFISHNESS.

For you to say this:
"It sounds like the OP's husband adores her if he still pays that much attention to her."

My gosh man, do you have no feelings? Any at all? Whether you accept it or not this woman has been wounded because she figured out that her husband cares more about himself than he does her. Much like you and your situation. A man and a woman do not get married because they "burn with passion" as you like to say. They marry because they love each other. What is love? Let me tell you the biblical definition of love.

1 Corinthians 13.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

You may be an intelligent man, but you are ignorant to the true meaning of a husband, love and worse, the Love of Christ. You show NOTHING of Christs' love for others and trying to love your wife as Christ loved the Church. It is all about you. As long as get what you want, it is fine. Sounds to me that you have used scripture as a weapon against your wife when she denied your perverted wants. I can only imagine how you talked to her when you bring your filthy language to this forum.

Well, as far as I could tell, you found NO ONE to see it your way here. So, I guess we are all wrong for loving our spouses more than we love ourselves. We put their needs above our own. For such an intelligent man, you sure don't get much. I'll give you a hint... It's not always about you.

You know, I could get my wife to do things she wouldn't really want to do.. She would do it because she loves me. But she would lose respect for me as a man and my witness would be damaged because I cared more for my desires than I did her feelings. That is not Christ like. But I would NEVER, EVER ask my wife to do something she was not comfortable with anymore. I care for her to much. I would NEVER want my wife to look at me with hurt in her eyes. She trusted you... You don't deserve a loving wife.

And just for the record, I do not see how you can say anal sex is a natural act. I, along with many medical professionals, will certainly tell you that you are wrong. Nothing natural about it.

I need to go now, I am getting angry with you. And that isn't right either.

  Totally agree mac, anal sex is an unnatural act if there ever was one. Goodness you only have to look at the womens body and to have basic medical knowledge about what the back passage is and what it does to see that. If anyone claims that is isnt  then I fear for them.
If I am called a prude (as I already have been a few times) for saying that then I am unconcerned, as I know what is and isnt right.

[Mac]

Well we will see how it plays out then, I am guessing she will remain in her stance and we will see where that takes her. 

She has already said she will remain faithful to him even though she is lonely. Oh, my... Can you imagine... She actually intends on suffering for another... Wow. What a foreign concept.

What about the hurt in your eyes from her neglect, of course that does not count and the mans feelings are irrelavant right Mac, if that is how you choose to live thats your choise dont try to spin things and bold print buzz words like selfishness. 

 Our job is not to seek vengeance. Only to live our life as Christ instructed us too. Even if I were married to a bad person, it wouldn't change the fact that I am to continue to live my life for the Lord. You can't reconcile your thoughts or actions with Scripture.

Selfishness is wanting something without returning the favor, there is only so much one can take of giving and never gettting back before you start to have serious problems in the relationship but of course in the chruch this is only one sided in favor of the woman right Mac.

All I can say is, you better be thankful that Jesus didn't feel the way you do. He died on that cross for people who neglect and reject Him daily. Christ is Love. I hope you find it.

[rppearso]

I cant buy into something that I dont believe to be true no matter how many people tell me it.  I dont care if 100 people told me 1+1 = 3 I would not believe them.

I dont need to argue with God, because the scripture is very clear to me.  I know I have things to sort out and that im not perfect but these are just warnings from my last relationship, as I said the OP can do whatever she wants.

The scriptures are clear to satan as well. And yet he twists them every chance he gets doesn't he? You are being lied to by the enemy rppearso. You came to this forum, and this is quite possibly God's last attempt to get your attention. His children have revealed His Truth to you. Do you stand with God...or with yourself?

[rppearso]

Maybe she would not be lonely if she did not prude out, all things have natural consequences.  You are just talking in circles at this point, God does not call us to foolishness, would you continue to allow someone into your house that continually stole from you?  You can forgive them but that does not mean you let them keep the key, are you really that foolish?

Well we will see how it plays out then, I am guessing she will remain in her stance and we will see where that takes her. 

She has already said she will remain faithful to him even though she is lonely. Oh, my... Can you imagine... She actually intends on suffering for another... Wow. What a foreign concept.

What about the hurt in your eyes from her neglect, of course that does not count and the mans feelings are irrelavant right Mac, if that is how you choose to live thats your choise dont try to spin things and bold print buzz words like selfishness. 

 Our job is not to seek vengeance. Only to live our life as Christ instructed us too. Even if I were married to a bad person, it wouldn't change the fact that I am to continue to live my life for the Lord. You can't reconcile your thoughts or actions with Scripture.

Selfishness is wanting something without returning the favor, there is only so much one can take of giving and never gettting back before you start to have serious problems in the relationship but of course in the chruch this is only one sided in favor of the woman right Mac.

All I can say is, you better be thankful that Jesus didn't feel the way you do. He died on that cross for people who neglect and reject Him daily. Christ is Love. I hope you find it.

[Mac]

Maybe she would not be lonely if she did not prude out, all things have natural consequences. 

So, her feelings just don't matter... As I said, you do not deserve a loving wife. All I can tell you is this, What ever a man reaps, he will surely sow.

You are just talking in circles at this point, God does not call us to foolishness, would you continue to allow someone into your house that continually stole from you?  You can forgive them but that does not mean you let them keep the key, are you really that foolish?

Talking in circles? No, I think it is more to the fact that you are not hearing us. All of us. Read the Word. That is my evidence.

Am I foolish? Maybe. If doing what the Lord has instructed me to do is foolishness, well yes, I am. And I am proud of it. I also love my wife. I am proud of that as well. I don't force my wife (or others for that matter) to do something only for my benefit. Yep.. You guessed.. I am proud of that too.

[fanuvmxpx]

I cant buy into something that I dont believe to be true no matter how many people tell me it.  I dont care if 100 people told me 1+1 = 3 I would not believe them.

You don't have to believe men. Its written down in God's Word, in plain English, no interpretation by yourself is required. You simply don't want to believe God, which is a choice you are free to make.

[admin]

"Let him (or her) who is without sin throw the first stone."

I love the stone verse out of context. Especially when a professing Christian tells me I'm not allowed to highlight that they are living in sin. I'm supposed to keep it to myself apparently.

No, I wasn't suggesting that anyone remain silent about his sin or not try to help him overcome it. It's a bad thing and does lots of psychological harm to everyone involved. I was merely suggesting that "divorce him!" was perhaps a bit extreme. It seems that society usually pushes guys to stick it out no matter what their wife has done to them, yet it's common for folks, even here, to encourage a woman to leave her husband for many things which are not Biblical grounds for divorce.

I'm just saying that everyone is imperfect and will do bad things so our first reaction should be to stick with them, work through it and keep our vows even during those times when it is "for worse."

[rppearso]

Unless your entire life with that person is "for worse", unless of course you are just waiting for one of you to die so you can be free, as that is how I felt.  What kind of a life is that to live where you are just waiting for the other person to die.

"Let him (or her) who is without sin throw the first stone."

I love the stone verse out of context. Especially when a professing Christian tells me I'm not allowed to highlight that they are living in sin. I'm supposed to keep it to myself apparently.

No, I wasn't suggesting that anyone remain silent about his sin or not try to help him overcome it. It's a bad thing and does lots of psychological harm to everyone involved. I was merely suggesting that "divorce him!" was perhaps a bit extreme. It seems that society usually pushes guys to stick it out no matter what their wife has done to them, yet it's common for folks, even here, to encourage a woman to leave her husband for many things which are not Biblical grounds for divorce.

I'm just saying that everyone is imperfect and will do bad things so our first reaction should be to stick with them, work through it and keep our vows even during those times when it is "for worse."

[fanuvmxpx]

Unless your entire life with that person is "for worse", unless of course you are just waiting for one of you to die so you can be free, as that is how I felt.  What kind of a life is that to live where you are just waiting for the other person to die.

A heartless and selfish one, which has been pointed out to you several times.

[FoC]

You see I dont care what you tell me becasue I am a very intellegent individual who can read the scripture for myself, I know what the scripture says and im not adding to it.  It says do not withhold from one and other sexually (so unless you dont believe oral sex is sex, in which case this becomes a very differnet discussion) withholding oral sex is still withholding a type of sex and it is defrauding your spouse out of what is rightfully theres.  The passage then goes on to say that if you do, you cause your spouse to potentially commit adultry (ie stumble).  It is a very simple scripture.

Am I understanding you correctly ?
Are you saying that if the wife IS submitting sexually to her husbands needs, but just isnt doing OS, that SHE is CAUSING him to be a letch and go get it elsewhere ?

Im sorry, but while I dont see where we have any scriptural reason to stick our noses into what SORT (OS, AS) of sex a marriage man and woman partake of in the privacy of their bedroom, I really dont see where scripture would even remotely claim that since she ISNT actually depriving her husband sexually, that somehow she is responsible of he cant control himself in his demands for some other sort of sex.

So if the wife gets her sexual jollies sticking forks into the male anatomy, isnt it 'depriving' her if he refuses ?

[sahg]

wow, i didn't think this would get to be such a heated discussion. i thank all of you for your input.there are some things i would like to make clear, i am not the perfect christian or the perfect wife, it does take two. i don't mean to bash my husband, i didn't think i was, i don't wan to disrespect him. i am just troubled by his porn veiwing and girl watching and his denial about it, i know Gods word says if a man lusts after a woman he has commited adultry in his heart, is that the same as physical adultry? and grounds for divorce?  as much as my husband hurt me and seems to be non repentive, i can't hate him. he said he apologises for all the hurt he caused me, but his apologies were bitter with anger.  i don't know if my husband is hurt by any of this he shows no emotion about anything, nothing seems to bother him. is that just how men are?he has always been in his own world looking out for himself,. i married him thinking he was saved, after living with him for all these years and learning Gods word and growing, i see he has no fruit of the spirit, you know a christian by their fruits. it's amazing how you really don't know a person until you have lived with them a number of years. i desperatly wanted a marriage like the bible speaks of, i tried to be the wife God wanted me to be, i wasn't perfect but i tried to be, i know i shouldn't have denied my husband of sex, but i told him the way i felt about certain sex acts and about the constant fondling through out the day how it made me feel so he would understand and respect me, but it continued, i was forcing myself to have sex with him to be obedient to the Lord, emotionally i began to die inside and became very depressed for a few years, i couldn't understand what was happening to me, i had completely blamed myself for the failed sexual relationship wondering what was wrong with me, he was blaming me too.this past year i found he has been into porn on the internet. i did some research on how porn will damage the christian marriage bed and it has, it was like i was reading about myself, God revealed to me that the way i felt about sex with my husband was was right, it wasn't my falt. certain sex acts are ok if both spouses are consenting , and it shouldn't get perveted and no one shoud be forced into anything perverted. he won't admit he has a problem. my husband was exposed to porn as a child and grew up with it, i think he has a problem he dosn't want to deal with, and it has ruined  our marriage, i believe sex is so important in a marriage and i have heard it can be a beutiful thing, iwouln't know. for all you men who cherish their wives and respect them, i hope your wives take a moment to be thankful for you, what a blessing to have a godly husband. i have a few words for mr.rppearso, you have some similarities to my husband, only more intense, you seem so bitter and arrogant and that is so unnatractive in a man,God hates pride. i can't help but wonder if your just here to get a rise out of us christians just for fun or do you really mean all the things you say. your issues about sex in the marriage are very disturbing, similar atitude as my husband, were you exposed to porn as a child? if so you need counseling. most of all from reading your posts i think you are in need of a savior.life is short here on earth, don't you see the world and what is going on around us? Jesus is comming soon. i'm not going to be left behind. my husband has turned his back on Christ, thats his choice, as well as yours. i will pray for you tonight, perhaps the rest of should do the same.

[rppearso]

"So if the wife gets her sexual jollies sticking forks into the male anatomy, isnt it 'depriving' her if he refuses ?"

There is a word I heard on the big bang theory that sheldon stated where one takes a reasonable discussion to an unrealistic conclusion when they were refering to emergency supplies and how an extra person in the house would deprive them of emergency supplies and lenord said yea and then we would all become man eating canibals.  Anyways I wish I remembered that word because it applies here.  Let me know if you can think of that word.

You see I dont care what you tell me becasue I am a very intellegent individual who can read the scripture for myself, I know what the scripture says and im not adding to it.  It says do not withhold from one and other sexually (so unless you dont believe oral sex is sex, in which case this becomes a very differnet discussion) withholding oral sex is still withholding a type of sex and it is defrauding your spouse out of what is rightfully theres.  The passage then goes on to say that if you do, you cause your spouse to potentially commit adultry (ie stumble).  It is a very simple scripture.

Am I understanding you correctly ?
Are you saying that if the wife IS submitting sexually to her husbands needs, but just isnt doing OS, that SHE is CAUSING him to be a letch and go get it elsewhere ?

Im sorry, but while I dont see where we have any scriptural reason to stick our noses into what SORT (OS, AS) of sex a marriage man and woman partake of in the privacy of their bedroom, I really dont see where scripture would even remotely claim that since she ISNT actually depriving her husband sexually, that somehow she is responsible of he cant control himself in his demands for some other sort of sex.

So if the wife gets her sexual jollies sticking forks into the male anatomy, isnt it 'depriving' her if he refuses ?