Is The Marriage Ceremony Sexist?

[phoebe]

"Why do females in general have such a deeply rooted obsession with physical appearance...?"

How many days do you have...

[BAH-BLAH]

WHO is expecting the woman to be more aesthetically pleasing?

THE WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The guy would be FINE if they married in shorts and tropical guyaberras

I rest my case.

HAHA true, but once again this is part of the sexist nature of the ceremony as it exists today. Why do females in general have such a deeply rooted obsession with physical appearance and for many also some kind of fairytale notion of having a perfect wedding? Little girls are socialized from a young age to think about marriage and about looking pretty for boys and even about gender roles such as woman's domestic responsibilities. From a very young age they learn to think of their value in relation to their future husband and their outward attractiveness to boys rather than an emphasis on having a primarily independent value within themselves. I just went to a 3 year old girl's birthday party. At 3 its suddenly all about dressing up and playing with dolls and loads of sparkly princess crap. That little girl already is play acting marriage between her dolls, caring for baby dolls, dressing up like a princess, etc. So 15-20 years later looking beautiful for her wedding will be an obvious expectation she has for herself based on the way that she was socialized for many years up to that point--the quality of a wedding is tied to the quality of her as a person. On the other hand boys are allowed to have greater independent worth separate from their physical qualities and separate from any future spouse and so certainly the guy wouldn't care quite so much about the aesthetics and perfection of a wedding quite so much. Unless the fiance tells him to!

This argument is incredibly arrogant...note...not the arguER...the arguMENT. We are really way past common sense and the limitations of the creatED here when we start down this path of, "oh now we've developed an understanding so deep and complete that we can speak into the very design of gender"

[yesult]

HAHA true, but once again this is part of the sexist nature of the ceremony as it exists today. Why do females in general have such a deeply rooted obsession with physical appearance and for many also some kind of fairytale notion of having a perfect wedding? Little girls are socialized from a young age to think about marriage and about looking pretty for boys and even about gender roles such as woman's domestic responsibilities. From a very young age they learn to think of their value in relation to their future husband and their outward attractiveness to boys rather than an emphasis on having a primarily independent value within themselves. I just went to a 3 year old girl's birthday party. At 3 its suddenly all about dressing up and playing with dolls and loads of sparkly princess crap. That little girl already is play acting marriage between her dolls, caring for baby dolls, dressing up like a princess, etc. So 15-20 years later looking beautiful for her wedding will be an obvious expectation she has for herself based on the way that she was socialized for many years up to that point--the quality of a wedding is tied to the quality of her as a person. On the other hand boys are allowed to have greater independent worth separate from their physical qualities and separate from any future spouse and so certainly the guy wouldn't care quite so much about the aesthetics and perfection of a wedding.

Awesome post 

I agree mostly. However I just wanted to say that 'sparkly princess crap' is natural to femininity the way trucks and mud and loud noises are to boys. But yeah, give a little girl princess stories, plastic princess crowns, sparkly dresses and a whole lot of other make believe stuff (and I concede the 'crap' comment at this point ) and they can end up with a bunch of weird fantasies about how life really is supposed to pan out and their husbands roll in it, as you stated.

Marriage is the only day of their life where the average woman gets to come close to that fantasy as a general rule. A 'princess' dress, tiara, jewellery, professionals for their hair and makeup. Photos, to the point of unreality at times. An elaborate, special cake, beautiful food, the center of attention just like a real princess, with their 'prince' by their side. Enter the diva fest, money, competition, selfishness and everything else. It's their chance to live out what they've been educated to believe could be theirs. When a little girl reads a princess book, it's not just about someone else, that's the appeal. Same as a chick flick. You relate to it because it speaks to your own needs and desires and on a subconscious level will influence you. The same as guys reading super hero comics. It appeals, but it's not just about someone else.

I heard a pastor make a funny comment once, that as a child, superman and spiderman weren't stories, they were options.  It was pretty funny and the whole audience cracked up but the same could be said of little girls and princess stories.

So when you get boys reading comics about men with big muscles permanently doing adventurous, fun things as a lifestyle, with a glamorous girlfriend and lots of appreciative attention (sometimes by women in skimpy outfits) and staying eternally single, how does that affect them?
Ditto with girls and princess stories. Particularly the 'happily ever after' bit which somehow is almost completely dependent on how the prince treats them. A storytale prince will rescue a princess and make her happy forever. How could he not?

   So yeah. Totally agree. If women weren't given princess stories, you could erase a lot of the negative things you sometimes see at weddings.

And I so agree with your comment about a woman's self worth becoming wrapped up in the quality of the wedding. As a general rule, if you have a bad or boring wedding, it equals 'failure'. And even one that wasn't what you wanted. It's like if you can't live up to the princess image for at least this one day of your life, then you don't quite cut it the same as other women who do. It's so unhealthy. (And other girls will be watching.)

Blah.     Weddings don't have to be like that, but yeah. I think it's important to make yours personal and even not have one if you don't want it. It's just tradition, and sometimes tradition is a bad thing.


(And not that that excuses the girl in the OP for rejecting marriage itself as sexist. That's a complete and blatant cop-out.)

[BAH-BLAH]

HAHA true, but once again this is part of the sexist nature of the ceremony as it exists today. Why do females in general have such a deeply rooted obsession with physical appearance and for many also some kind of fairytale notion of having a perfect wedding? Little girls are socialized from a young age to think about marriage and about looking pretty for boys and even about gender roles such as woman's domestic responsibilities. From a very young age they learn to think of their value in relation to their future husband and their outward attractiveness to boys rather than an emphasis on having a primarily independent value within themselves. I just went to a 3 year old girl's birthday party. At 3 its suddenly all about dressing up and playing with dolls and loads of sparkly princess crap. That little girl already is play acting marriage between her dolls, caring for baby dolls, dressing up like a princess, etc. So 15-20 years later looking beautiful for her wedding will be an obvious expectation she has for herself based on the way that she was socialized for many years up to that point--the quality of a wedding is tied to the quality of her as a person. On the other hand boys are allowed to have greater independent worth separate from their physical qualities and separate from any future spouse and so certainly the guy wouldn't care quite so much about the aesthetics and perfection of a wedding.

Awesome post 

I agree mostly. However I just wanted to say that 'sparkly princess crap' is natural to femininity the way trucks and mud and loud noises are to boys. But yeah, give a little girl princess stories, plastic princess crowns, sparkly dresses and a whole lot of other make believe stuff (and I concede the 'crap' comment at this point ) and they can end up with a bunch of weird fantasies about how life really is supposed to pan out and their husbands roll in it, as you stated.

Marriage is the only day of their life where the average woman gets to come close to that fantasy as a general rule. A 'princess' dress, tiara, jewellery, professionals for their hair and makeup. Photos, to the point of unreality at times. An elaborate, special cake, beautiful food, the center of attention just like a real princess, with their 'prince' by their side. Enter the diva fest, money, competition, selfishness and everything else. It's their chance to live out what they've been educated to believe could be theirs. When a little girl reads a princess book, it's not just about someone else, that's the appeal. Same as a chick flick. You relate to it because it speaks to your own needs and desires and on a subconscious level will influence you. The same as guys reading super hero comics. It appeals, but it's not just about someone else.

I heard a pastor make a funny comment once, that as a child, superman and spiderman weren't stories, they were options.  It was pretty funny and the whole audience cracked up but the same could be said of little girls and princess stories.

So when you get boys reading comics about men with big muscles permanently doing adventurous, fun things as a lifestyle, with a glamorous girlfriend and lots of appreciative attention (sometimes by women in skimpy outfits) and staying eternally single, how does that affect them?
Ditto with girls and princess stories. Particularly the 'happily ever after' bit which somehow is almost completely dependent on how the prince treats them. A storytale prince will rescue a princess and make her happy forever. How could he not?

   So yeah. Totally agree. If women weren't given princess stories, you could erase a lot of the negative things you sometimes see at weddings.

And I so agree with your comment about a woman's self worth becoming wrapped up in the quality of the wedding. As a general rule, if you have a bad or boring wedding, it equals 'failure'. And even one that wasn't what you wanted. It's like if you can't live up to the princess image for at least this one day of your life, then you don't quite cut it the same as other women who do. It's so unhealthy. (And other girls will be watching.)

Blah.     Weddings don't have to be like that, but yeah. I think it's important to make yours personal and even not have one if you don't want it. It's just tradition, and sometimes tradition is a bad thing.


(And not that that excuses the girl in the OP for rejecting marriage itself as sexist. That's a complete and blatant cop-out.)

So, the girls naturally go for the princess stuff, but if you expose them to TOO MUCH of it, it becomes a problem?

Okay, how much? Can thay handle o 1 fairy take, and a story book? Or, is it one platic crown and a pair of slippers? Come on, this is so subjective its simply not applicable. If they are prone (meaning if it fits their natural gender tendency) to princess things, what are you supposed to do? Stcik em in mud to clean the princess off?

I would expect women to get roundly upset with them being portrayed as so robotic and programmable that just because daddy gavem a fake crown it corrupted their entire lifes expectations.

Isnt it better just to observe that boys and girls, in general (exceptions exist) do gravitate a certain way, and THATS OK!!!!!!

Finally, if this whole nonsense about women being disaplayed as objects etc on the wedding day has any merit....well, the entire flippin industry is dominated by WOMEN!, so is the gender corrupted for generations? And only you "enlightened" men get it?

[JohnDB]

I don't think it is sexist at all.

[yesult]

So, the girls naturally go for the princess stuff, but if you expose them to TOO MUCH of it, it becomes a problem?

Read the context I posted it in. When sparkly, princess stuff becomes overt fantasy then it's unhealthy.

Okay, how much? Can thay handle o 1 fairy take, and a story book? Or, is it one platic crown and a pair of slippers? Come on, this is so subjective its simply not applicable. If they are prone (meaning if it fits their natural gender tendency) to princess things, what are you supposed to do? Stcik em in mud to clean the princess off?

Anything that's rubbish is unhealthy. Pretty, sparkly, feminine things like jewellery, glitter, pretty dresses etc are natural and normal for any female of any age.

I would expect women to get roundly upset with them being portrayed as so robotic and programmable that just because daddy gavem a fake crown it corrupted their entire lifes expectations.

You're excusing the influencing of little girls with unrealistic fantasies because you simply want to disagree. Your choice.

Isnt it better just to observe that boys and girls, in general (exceptions exist) do gravitate a certain way, and THATS OK!!!!!!

Its statements like this that show how badly you want to prove those who disagree with you wrong, regardless of how little evidence you actually have to do it with. Neither mine or the above posters points sad anything was wrong with natural masculinity or feminine traits.

Finally, if this whole nonsense about women being disaplayed as objects etc on the wedding day has any merit....well, the entire flippin industry is dominated by WOMEN!, so is the gender corrupted for generations? And only you "enlightened" men get it?

Can't you come up with something better then that to back up your attempts to rip posts that disagree with you to shreds?

[chosenone]

The point is that if the lady who was mentioned thinks it is sexist, and is using this as an excuse not to marry, then she can write her own wedding and can have what she likes in it, (as anyone can) So if one person hates it then change it. if another likes it then keep it the same. The whole point is that you are marrying the person who you want to spend the rest of your life with. and if you REALLY want to do this you will. She is disobeying God and committing serious sexual sin. Which is more important to her? I think she has made her decision.

[dallasapple]

The point is that if the lady who was mentioned thinks it is sexist, and is using this as an excuse not to marry, then she can write her own wedding and can have what she likes in it, (as anyone can) So if one person hates it then change it. if another likes it then keep it the same. The whole point is that you are marrying the person who you want to spend the rest of your life with. and if you REALLY want to do this you will. She is disobeying God and committing serious sexual sin. Which is more important to her? I think she has made her decision.

I do agree on that point that its a silly reason not to get married.She hasnt thought about it much obviously because no one forces you to have a "traditional" marriage ceremony.

Love

Dallas

[BAH-BLAH]

So, the girls naturally go for the princess stuff, but if you expose them to TOO MUCH of it, it becomes a problem?

Read the context I posted it in. When sparkly, princess stuff becomes overt fantasy then it's unhealthy.

Okay, how much? Can thay handle o 1 fairy take, and a story book? Or, is it one platic crown and a pair of slippers? Come on, this is so subjective its simply not applicable. If they are prone (meaning if it fits their natural gender tendency) to princess things, what are you supposed to do? Stcik em in mud to clean the princess off?

Anything that's rubbish is unhealthy. Pretty, sparkly, feminine things like jewellery, glitter, pretty dresses etc are natural and normal for any female of any age.

I would expect women to get roundly upset with them being portrayed as so robotic and programmable that just because daddy gavem a fake crown it corrupted their entire lifes expectations.

You're excusing the influencing of little girls with unrealistic fantasies because you simply want to disagree. Your choice.

Isnt it better just to observe that boys and girls, in general (exceptions exist) do gravitate a certain way, and THATS OK!!!!!!

Its statements like this that show how badly you want to prove those who disagree with you wrong, regardless of how little evidence you actually have to do it with. Neither mine or the above posters points sad anything was wrong with natural masculinity or feminine traits.

Finally, if this whole nonsense about women being disaplayed as objects etc on the wedding day has any merit....well, the entire flippin industry is dominated by WOMEN!, so is the gender corrupted for generations? And only you "enlightened" men get it?

Can't you come up with something better then that to back up your attempts to rip posts that disagree with you to shreds?

No need to come up w/ something better.

Making the exposure to shiney things the problem, then begs....by WHOSE standard? Should it be MINE? Shall I decide how much princess toys to give her? Or should you? One doll?, No dolls? 5 dolls?

There are always problems with subjectivity. Its why Gods Word is so cool.....its not subjective, but so many want to foist subjective things into it.

[Hot Ice]

Really disapointing that nobocy mentioned that sexism isn't found in a procedure, but rather in the thinking behind it.  All I've seen here is speculation about the thinking behind the ceremony, no substance. 

The ceremony, as it was intended from the scriptures, has no sexism.  Modern, politically-correct man has nothing to add/contribute to the principles that God put in place.

[jessie70]

lets ask the most important question first.....are both of the people gettin married christians? if not theres a bigger issue here as where their soul is gonna end up(not just becuse of being married or not). the Bible says that a man is head of the wife as God is head of the church. In that respect........the man has alot  of responsibility in teaching the woman the way God intends us to be..after all isnt that what God does with the church.

As being a sexist ceremony....If God is the leader in the realtionship and in both lives...I dont see this able to be asked.  Keep our lives in the christian living and letting God lead our realtionships befor we get married is the key.  If we did this and learn how both of the  people are in Christ befor they marry..they might not get divorced.

[BAH-BLAH]

Sex is sexist too,


Im just sayin

[Joel, the Son of Pethuel]

http://www.saintignatiuschurch.org/marriageservice.htm

This is the text of an Orthodox wedding ceremony. Notice the complete lack of any "sexism". If you have 10 or so minutes, give it a read.

[Memphis Dwight]

Obeying the husband is something that God calls PURITY.  Read it for yourself.

Look at I Peter 3:1-3 in the NIV.  God says the wife being in subjection
to her husband is PURITY.  In the KJV it says "chaste behavior" which means
chastity. 

[ForgivenDaughter]

Dad refused to come.
Brother #2 refused to come.
Step-father walked me down the isle....beamingly proud...

Why? not to give me away - to help me make it without falling  on my face - I was so excited I could barely keep a straight line barefoot, let alone in heels....

and don't get me started about feminists....please....