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Christian Interests => Christian Marriage Forum => Topic started by: Memphis Dwight on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 15:58:04

Title: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 15:58:04
Since it appears that Charles Sloan and I will be discussing this matter, here is a
brief article that sheds plenty of light (http://www.christianpoly.org/ownhusband.php).  Gotta love that light. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 16:01:33
Are you promoting polygamy?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 16:03:32
no, polygamy is where a woman could have more than one husband.  That would be wrong.  What I'm
promoting is polygyny. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 16:07:19
no, polygamy is where a woman could have more than one husband.  That would be wrong.  What I'm
promoting is polygyny. 

Thank you for clearing that up, but in't that what the Mormons practice?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 16:10:47
Yes.  But I'm not Mormon. 
And just because Mormon's practice something does not make it necessarily wrong. 
I'm completely against Mormonism as it a false religion that adds to the bible with the uninspired writings of a false prophet. 

Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: fanuvmxpx on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 16:18:52
Since it appears that Charles Sloan and I will be discussing this matter, here is a
brief article that sheds plenty of light ([url]http://www.christianpoly.org/ownhusband.php[/url]).  Gotta love that light. 


Biblically, there is nothing I have found to suggest this as wrong. Americanly, I can't afford the Alimony payments.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 16:42:58
Yes.  But I'm not Mormon. 
And just because Mormon's practice something does not make it necessarily wrong. 
I'm completely against Mormonism as it a false religion that adds to the bible with the uninspired writings of a false prophet. 

Okay, I'm glad your not a Mormon but their practices are in error including their polygyny. For example when Jesus was questioned in Mark 10:6-9 about marriage and divorce pointed back to the beginning of creation for God's model of marriage. "And they twain shall be one flesh" So God made Adam one wife, not many.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Wed Dec 03, 2008 - 20:13:47
Also Paul says that each man should have his own wife (it does not say wives but wife.)
I have heard this argument before from a guy who runs a website that dares to call itself Christian marriage. it is totally against the teachings of Jesus, of Paul and of Gods original intention for one man and one woman. If God thought that a man needed more than one wife than maybe he would have made him two or three or four....but no, he made him one wife and they joined and became one flesh as said already.You cannot have a one flesh relationship with 3 or 4.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 08:35:26
I would love to have two or three wives.   And at least ten kids. 

The passages that anti-polygynists throw up have been abused and twisted
to make it look like God is against man having more than one wife. 

But Eve was formed from a rib.  And a body can have many ribs but a rib can have only one body. 

God said He was married to two women.  God gave David plenty of wives.  God said that David was a-okay in His sight. 
Most if not all of the men in Israel had more than one wife.  The census proves it.   (http://www.christianpoly.org/numbered.php)

God even commanded some men that if their brother's died and left no children then they were to marry their dead brother's wife.  And it didn't matter if they were already married.  They were still to take on another wife.

God made men to want lots of women.  It is natural. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 08:44:54
I would love to have two or three wives.   And at least ten kids. 

The passages that anti-polygynists throw up have been abused and twisted
to make it look like God is against man having more than one wife. 

But Eve was formed from a rib.  And a body can have many ribs but a rib can have only one body. 

God said He was married to two women.  God gave David plenty of wives.  God said that David was a-okay in His sight. 
Most if not all of the men in Israel had more than one wife.  The census proves it.   ([url]http://www.christianpoly.org/numbered.php[/url])

God even commanded some men that if their brother's died and left no children then they were to marry their dead brother's wife.  And it didn't matter if they were already married.  They were still to take on another wife.

God made men to want lots of women.  It is natural. 


I have heard it al before. men who want to have more than one woman pick out all the verses that support their case while ignoring the words of Paul, Jesus and others who say that each man is to have his own WIFE. I find it quite funny actually.
Also God didnt make men to want more than one woman. The men that I know are quiet happy with their own wife thank you very much (including my husband)
I am sure that if God wanted men to have 2 or 3 wives he would make it that there were many more women born that men. As it is there are about 50/50, so what happens to the millions of men who cant have a wife becuase those like you have 2 or 3.?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 09:02:34
I would love to have two or three wives.


Because of this I believe you will go to any length to justify polygamy.

The passages that anti-polygynists throw up have been abused and twisted
to make it look like God is against man having more than one wife. 


No one twisted or abused any passages here, they were just mentioned. And according to the Pastoral epistles (1Ti 3:2, 1Ti 3:12, Tts 1:6) its obvious that God does want some men to practice monogamist relationships and not polygamist.

So God is against some men having more than one wife.

But Eve was formed from a rib.  And a body can have many ribs but a rib can have only one body.


Talk about twisting Scripture, God made Adam one wife and her name was Eve. That was the perfect plan for man from the beginning of creation before the fall. There is nothing you can bring to this discussion that will changed that fact.

God said He was married to two women.


If you are talking about Adam I would like to see the book, chapter and verse.

God gave David plenty of wives.  God said that David was a-okay in His sight. 
Most if not all of the men in Israel had more than one wife.  The census proves it.   ([url]http://www.christianpoly.org/numbered.php[/url])


Didn't Jesus say that for the hardness of their hearts Moses permitted them to put away their wives, but from the beginning it was not so? If in the beginning God created man with one wife why would you look to the actions of a disobedient, stiff necked people to justify polygamy?

God even commanded some men that if their brother's died and left no children then they were to marry their dead brother's wife.  And it didn't matter if they were already married.  They were still to take on another wife.


Not all the commands given to Israel can just randomly be applied to Gentiles.

God made men to want lots of women.  It is natural. 


What seems natural to a man is not always of God. (Pro 14:12, 1Cr 2:14)
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Bon Voyage on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 09:22:40
More than one mother-in-law? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Memphis, I just showed a major flaw.

Concubines are biblical.  Why not concubines?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 09:27:03
Charles,
God would not tempt man by portraying Himself as having two wives.  Neither would he give David several wives then tell him he did good.

When Christ was speaking on divorce, His point about becoming one flesh had nothing to do with how many wives a man could have but rather the permanence of each connection he has with each wife.   

Christ was speaking against divorce.  Not against having more than one woman. 

The desire for marriage is natural and the norm.  Celibacy is the exception. 

God made man to have a libido that is on 24 hours of the day, 7 days a week.  He also made men to able reproduce even at an old age.  Women were not made to have libidos that were on 24/7 and cannot reproduce at an old age. 

If you say having more than one wife is sin, then you foolishly charge God. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 09:28:20
Gary,
I would love a couple of concubines.  Good suggestion. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 09:31:28
Gary, you still get in-laws with concubines.  See Judges ch. 19.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 09:41:50
yeh I like the weird interpretation about the ribs also charles, and the fact that Adam had 2 wives?never has been mentioned in any Bible I have ever seen. I find it quiet incredible that some will so distort the bible as to make anything ok even if it isnt allowed by God for us.
memphis are you married? and if you are does your wife know that you dont find her enough for you?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 10:19:11
Charles,
God would not tempt man by portraying Himself as having two wives.  Neither would he give David several wives then tell him he did good.

David is not the example, Christ is.

When Christ was speaking on divorce, His point about becoming one flesh had nothing to do with how many wives a man could have but rather the permanence of each connection he has with each wife.   

When Christ was addressing divorce he expounded on marriage, and in doing so he pointed back to the garden of Eden and the beginning of creation to show God's intentions for man. And God intended Adam to have one wife, Eve.

But again let me ask you to provide me with the passages where we can see that Adam had more than one wife. I and many others would be very interested in this revelation, since I have read my Bible many times an I can't seem to recall anything like that.

Maybe I just overlooked it, but please help me out here.

Christ was speaking against divorce.  Not against having more than one woman. 

Christ expounded on marriage in doing so rebuked polygamy.

The desire for marriage is natural and the norm.  Celibacy is the exception. 

I agree with this, but sinful desires can also seem natural and the normal for men too.

God made man to have a libido that is on 24 hours of the day, 7 days a week.  He also made men to able reproduce even at an old age.  Women were not made to have libidos that were on 24/7 and cannot reproduce at an old age. 

That was little to do with this argument.

If you say having more than one wife is sin, then you foolishly charge God. 

Whatever is not of faith is sin.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: cristals mama on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 10:40:10
If you ask me, no matter how you slice it up or what reasons you come up with for wanting to do what you want to do without consequence- the Bible tells us that we are to respect our rulers and follow the law which reveals what is sin to us.  The law in America is that men are to have only one wife and women one husband, therefore regardless of who's example you want to use to justify polygamy it is illegal for we who are in America to practice it and therefore it is sin for us to do so.  Other cultures have different laws- David was not American!

FYI:  justify what you want to but in this society adultery is adultery and bigamy is bigamy!
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 11:08:39
If you ask me, no matter how you slice it up or what reasons you come up with for wanting to do what you want to do without consequence- the Bible tells us that we are to respect our rulers and follow the law which reveals what is sin to us.  The law in America is that men are to have only one wife and women one husband, therefore regardless of who's example you want to use to justify polygamy it is illegal for we who are in America to practice it and therefore it is sin for us to do so.  Other cultures have different laws- David was not American!

FYI:  justify what you want to but in this society adultery is adultery and bigamy is bigamy!

well said crystals mama
I heard a man form a 'Christian' sect who advocated several wives and he said that to enable them to have more than one wife and stay within the law that they should divorce each wife before marrying the next one. ::frown:: He is therefore committing adultery becuase he is sitll having sex with his divorced wives while also sleeping with his new and usually very young new one.quite amazing isnt it how a mans desires can make him do such rediculous things. Does he somehow think that God would be pleased with him for divorcing his previous wives for absulutely no Biblical reason? HARDLY
His justification was that some men in their 50's and even their 60's needed more than one woman to satisfy them sexually, What arrogance. Havent they heard of being faithful and loving and having self control.? Of course the women arent allowed to have another husband even if their husband isnt satisfying them. sexually.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 11:10:17
memphis dwight
the only thing I agree with you on is that we are designed to want to be married and that is good, but NOT to more than one wife.How much more crystal clear can the Bible be?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Imabear on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 11:11:04
Interesting, David was a "man after God's own heart".
He was also a murderer.
So is murder okay too then?

I work with an Egyptian woman.  
Her brother has two wives.  
From my understanding, in Egypt, each wife is given her own house... It gets to be quite expensive.

It's true that the OT is full of examples of men with more than one wife.  I don't that was God's original intent.

It wasn't His original intent for Israel to have a king either.

And just because it is "man's nature" to want to sleep around, doesn't mean it's okay.

"The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked."  Jeremiah 17:9  
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 11:12:18
Great post Janet.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 11:34:20
I say, start at the beginning, God made Adam. Later on He made Eve as it wasn't good for Adam to be alone. One man, one woman, end of discussion. That's how God created it and that's His intent, istm.

God made man to have a libido that is on 24 hours of the day, 7 days a week.  He also made men to able reproduce even at an old age.  Women were not made to have libidos that were on 24/7 and cannot reproduce at an old age. 

If you say having more than one wife is sin, then you foolishly charge God. 

I suppose you are just going on what you read, but surely this isn't the case. I know many women who have more of a sex drive than their husbands. So then, should they get another husband as well to fulfill these desires? If you want 10 kids, then marry someone who also wants a large family and go ahead. I'm from a family of 7, and there are many large large families in our heritage.


Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 15:35:00
I’m just a simple Christian man.  I look at the clearest statements of God. 

From the NLT, Ezekiel 23:4
God speaking here:
The older girl was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. I married them, and they bore me sons and daughters.

God speaking here to David:
2 Sam 12:8
I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if [that had been] too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

God speaking about David:
1 Kings 15: 5 Because David did [that which was] right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any [thing] that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Speaking of Israel and Judah:
I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jeremiah 31:32

2 Chronicles 24: 2-3
And Joash did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest.
And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters.

I can't apologize for wanting to be a righteous man like the great patriarchs of the bible. 




Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 15:37:20
Nor can I apologize for wanting to be a righteous woman of God.

The clearest statements of God istm are the ones right in the beginning, before the fall.

One man, one woman, He created them.


Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 15:41:45
We're not living in Eden any longer.  There aren't just two people on the planet.  And we still have to be fruitful and multiply per the command of God in Genesis. 
And I don't charge God with sin because He had more than one wife. 
And if I want four or five wives, you know what? that is my God given right.

God also told wives to be obedient to their husbands.  Do you follow that command? 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 16:27:11
I’m just a simple Christian man.  I look at the clearest statements of God. 

Honestly, I believe you are just trying to justify polygamy.

From the NLT, Ezekiel 23:4
God speaking here:
The older girl was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. I married them, and they bore me sons and daughters.

Isn't the LORD talking about Samaria and Jerusalem?

God speaking here to David:
2 Sam 12:8
I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if [that had been] too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

Indeed, God allowed for polygamy in the Old Testament.

God speaking about David:
1 Kings 15: 5 Because David did [that which was] right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any [thing] that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Obviously polygamy wasn't the issue with David, now Solomon is another story...

Speaking of Israel and Judah:
I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jeremiah 31:32

Again, God isn't talking about real women.

2 Chronicles 24: 2-3
And Joash did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest.
And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters.

You will find polygamy in the Old Testament, that isn't the contention.

I can't apologize for wanting to be a righteous man like the great patriarchs of the bible.

Dwight, just to remind you we are under another covenant. I know you will continue to point to the Old Testament to support your beliefs in polygamy, but you need to reconcile verses like 1Ti 3:2, 1Ti 3:12, Tts 1:6 with your belief that God wants men to have multiple wives and that is his design and intention is for polygamy.

I will continue to point to creation as God's intention, and events after the fall as evidence of man depravity and need for redemption and restoration. Jesus came to make all things new. So seek become like Jesus, don't live in the shadows of his coming.

By the way, I'm still waiting for the reference to Adam's second wife.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Pfc Hall on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 16:32:06
Memphis Dwight!  Thank you for posting this!  Finally someone else sees it too.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 16:35:45
 ::doh::
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: zoonance on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 16:58:08
Any ladies out there want to be my second wife?   You will have to get past the current Mrs. first though (Might want to visit the thread on gun possesion!  She ain't big on sharing me.)
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Howdyboyalan on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 17:36:31
Quote
When Christ was addressing divorce he expounded on marriage, and in doing so he pointed back to the garden of Eden and the beginning of creation to show God's intentions for man. And God intended Adam to have one wife, Eve.

But again let me ask you to provide me with the passages where we can see that Adam had more than one wife. I and many others would be very interested in this revelation, since I have read my Bible many times an I can't seem to recall anything like that.

Maybe I just overlooked it, but please help me out here.

Memphis could you answer this?

Memphis, would you take more than one wife? How old are you and are you already married?

Biblically, I can see how one could argue this point, however,

Quote
If you ask me, no matter how you slice it up or what reasons you come up with for wanting to do what you want to do without consequence- the Bible tells us that we are to respect our rulers and follow the law which reveals what is sin to us.  The law in America is that men are to have only one wife and women one husband, therefore regardless of who's example you want to use to justify polygamy it is illegal for we who are in America to practice it and therefore it is sin for us to do so.  Other cultures have different laws- David was not American

Is bang on
Romans 13
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 18:05:19
We're not living in Eden any longer.  There aren't just two people on the planet.  And we still have to be fruitful and multiply per the command of God in Genesis. 
And I don't charge God with sin because He had more than one wife. 
And if I want four or five wives, you know what? that is my God given right.

God also told wives to be obedient to their husbands.  Do you follow that command? 


No matter how you say it, that doesn't change what God created. We certainly can be fruitful and multiply with one wife or husband.

I follow it indeed, just ask my husband, my one and only.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 18:05:43
Any ladies out there want to be my second wife?   You will have to get past the current Mrs. first though (Might want to visit the thread on gun possesion!  She ain't big on sharing me.)
::lookaround::

I've missed you Zoo

Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Bon Voyage on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 18:32:07
Since multiple wives are not allowed legally in the US of A, this discussion is pretty much moot anyhow.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Thu Dec 04, 2008 - 18:53:18
Any ladies out there want to be my second wife?   You will have to get past the current Mrs. first though (Might want to visit the thread on gun possesion!  She ain't big on sharing me.)

Yes I know what you mean. if my husband wanted to have another wife, I would be out of the door so fast and even I may get a gun and I am British and I dont even agree with owning a gun! The trouble is that this man is ignoring all the many teachings in the new testament that specifically say that we are to have one wife and one husband.

memphis please answer the question as to whether you are married cos if you are I would LOVE to know what your wife thinks of this. If you arent then may I suggest that you find one wife before you start thinking that you need more than one.
You may find that once you have told her what your feelings are on the matter she wouldnt want to marry you anyway. I cant see many women being happy about being married to a guy who wanted to be unfaithful.(and that is what it would be.)Not a good start for any mariage is it.How would you feel if your wife told you that she wants to have more than one husband as you cannot satisfy her. Also what would you say to those who would have no wife due to the fact that you had 2 or 3?

Sorry to be blunt, but this sort of thinking (as you have confirmred memphis) usually comes down to the fact of the man wanting to have sex with lots of different women and using The Bible to justify it. Sorry, it wont wash .Jesus himself made it clear, as did Paul, that each man is to have his own wife and each women her own husband (singular)as it was always mean to to be.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 11:06:04
Answering questions best I can.  If I missed anyone's, please PM me. 

Multiple wives are not allowed in this country but there is no law against a
married man having girlfriends with whom he has made a vow.

I am 42 years old.  I am married. 

Not all laws are to be obeyed.  California has made it against the law to spank
children.  If I lived there, I would not obey that law if I had children.  Some states say men can marry men.  Not going to obey that law either. 


The thing is, the laws of God regarding physical relations have become so distorted by the melting pot American Church. 
We say sex is evil and can only be made acceptable when it is between one man and one woman.  Hmmmmm.  Why didn't God think to put it that over simplified when He wrote a whole chapter in the book of Leviticus? 

Maybe our hang-ups go back to some of the early misguided church “fathers
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 11:21:00
Answering questions best I can.  If I missed anyone's, please PM me. 

Multiple wives are not allowed in this country but there is no law against a
married man having girlfriends with whom he has made a vow.

I am 42 years old.  I am married. 

Not all laws are to be obeyed.  California has made it against the law to spank
children.  If I lived there, I would not obey that law if I had children.  Some states say men can marry men.  Not going to obey that law either. 


The thing is, the laws of God regarding physical relations have become so distorted by the melting pot American Church. 
We say sex is evil and can only be made acceptable when it is between one man and one woman.  Hmmmmm.  Why didn't God think to put it that over simplified when He wrote a whole chapter in the book of Leviticus? 

Maybe our hang-ups go back to some of the early misguided church “fathers
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 11:43:29
We say sex is evil and can only be made acceptable when it is between one man and one woman.  Hmmmmm.  Why didn't God think to put it that over simplified when He wrote a whole chapter in the book of Leviticus? 

"We do?" Whom it we and were exactly did we say that?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 11:47:13
We say sex is evil and can only be made acceptable when it is between one man and one woman.  Hmmmmm.  Why didn't God think to put it that over simplified when He wrote a whole chapter in the book of Leviticus? 

"We do?" Whom it we and were exactly did we say that?

 
 

sex isnt evil it is good........when it is in a married relationship between one man and one women, as God intented.
 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: fanuvmxpx on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 11:48:28
We say sex is evil and can only be made acceptable when it is between one man and one woman.  Hmmmmm.  Why didn't God think to put it that over simplified when He wrote a whole chapter in the book of Leviticus? 

"We do?" Whom it we and were exactly did we say that?

 
 

sex isnt evil it is good........when it is in a married relationship between one man and one women, as God intented.
 

"Sex" is always good. It is the "Act/Sin" of doing it outside of marriage that is not good. God created "sex", so it is always good.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 12:08:26
choseone:
Quote
Making a vow does not make you married. If you find another woman you will be committing adultery and you know how God views that. Your desire to have sex with more than one woman is blinding you to what The Bible says on the matter.

Help me to understand, please.  What does the bible say on the matter?
God Himself says to David I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives...
And then He told David if that had not been enough, He would have given him more.  More wives!! 

Does God tempt people to sin?  Heavens no!  James 1:13 says of God: neither tempteth he any man:

God said that David did right all of his days except in the matter of having Uriah the Hittite killed.  This can be found in 1 Kings 15:5.


All the twisting of passages like Matt 19:3-9 are just that: twisting. 


It is not wrong for a man to have several wives.  It is wrong for a woman to have more than one husband.  The husband is the head of his wife.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Imabear on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 12:14:11
Maybe the laws regarding physical relations also have to do with ownership.  Father has rights to daughter, she is his property until she becomes married and then the ownership passes to the husband. 

I would like for my second wife to be very physically voluptuous.  Because usually that is a sign of fertility.  If she looks like Venus Williams, well then that would be awesome.  We’re praying that the right woman comes along soon. 
I think I'm going to puke.  No man will ever "own" me.  I am not an object or a piece of property.

Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Quinn on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 12:18:42
In the early years of this country, certain men and women who considered themselves Christians made exactly the same arguments you are making:

It is in the Old Testament.
It is accepted in the Bible and appears to be approved by God.
It is “natural
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 12:18:58
If what I said makes ya want to puke, then read this:

Deut 5:21
Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any [thing] that [is] thy neighbour's.

All of the above belong to the man signified by the words : any [thing] that [is] thy neighbour's.
Wife, house, field, manservant and maidservant, ox, ass,etc.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 12:20:06
In the early years of this country, certain men and women who considered themselves Christians made exactly the same arguments you are making:

It is in the Old Testament.
It is accepted in the Bible and appears to be approved by God.
It is “natural
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 12:28:16
choseone:
Quote
Making a vow does not make you married. If you find another woman you will be committing adultery and you know how God views that. Your desire to have sex with more than one woman is blinding you to what The Bible says on the matter.

Help me to understand, please.  What does the bible say on the matter?
God Himself says to David I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives...
And then He told David if that had not been enough, He would have given him more.  More wives!! 

Does God tempt people to sin?  Heavens no!  James 1:13 says of God: neither tempteth he any man:

God said that David did right all of his days except in the matter of having Uriah the Hittite killed.  This can be found in 1 Kings 15:5.


All the twisting of passages like Matt 19:3-9 are just that: twisting. 


It is not wrong for a man to have several wives.  It is wrong for a woman to have more than one husband.  The husband is the head of his wife.

There are loads of verses in the New Testament such as let each man have his own wife (singular) and others which have already been mentioned here. I will look up more later but I havent time now as I have to go out. Just look up wife and husband and see what it really says.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 12:29:52
If what I said makes ya want to puke, then read this:

Deut 5:21
Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any [thing] that [is] thy neighbour's.

All of the above belong to the man signified by the words : any [thing] that [is] thy neighbour's.
Wife, house, field, manservant and maidservant, ox, ass,etc.



My husband is MY husband, and I am HIS wife, that doesnt mean that he owns me or that I own HIm.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 13:11:46
Answering questions best I can.  If I missed anyone's, please PM me. 

You missed mine, where does the Bible say Adam had two wives?

Multiple wives are not allowed in this country but there is no law against a
married man having girlfriends with whom he has made a vow.

There is a law against adultery/fornication, you will find it listed in the Ten Commandments.

I am 42 years old.  I am married. 

You should consider yourself blessed. (Pro 18:22)

Not all laws are to be obeyed.  California has made it against the law to spank
children.  If I lived there, I would not obey that law if I had children.  Some states say men can marry men.  Not going to obey that law either. 

But God's law is always to be kept, that includes not committing adultery or fornicating.

The thing is, the laws of God regarding physical relations have become so distorted by the melting pot American Church.

You mean because America doesn't allow polygamy so our views are distorted.

We say sex is evil and can only be made acceptable when it is between one man and one woman.  Hmmmmm.  Why didn't God think to put it that over simplified when He wrote a whole chapter in the book of Leviticus? 

God says sexual immorality is a sin, and your blatantly ignoring every passage in the New Testament that exhorts men to have only one wife. I think its clear to anyone reading these exchanges that you are just walling yourself off from New Testament marriage principles to defend your belief that God allows Christians to have many wives.

Your trouble is that you can't prove it in the New Testament.

Maybe our hang-ups go back to some of the early misguided church “fathers
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 14:16:04
We say sex is evil and can only be made acceptable when it is between one man and one woman.  Hmmmmm.  Why didn't God think to put it that over simplified when He wrote a whole chapter in the book of Leviticus? 

"We do?" Whom it we and were exactly did we say that?

 
 

sex isnt evil it is good........when it is in a married relationship between one man and one women, as God intented.
 

I agree completely. Hence my point to Memphis.

We say sex is evil and can only be made acceptable when it is between one man and one woman.  Hmmmmm.  Why didn't God think to put it that over simplified when He wrote a whole chapter in the book of Leviticus? 

"We do?" Whom it we and were exactly did we say that?

 
 

sex isnt evil it is good........when it is in a married relationship between one man and one women, as God intented.
 

"Sex" is always good. It is the "Act/Sin" of doing it outside of marriage that is not good. God created "sex", so it is always good.

Yup
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 14:25:48

It is not wrong for a man to have several wives.  It is wrong for a woman to have more than one husband.  The husband is the head of his wife.

I am sorry Memphis. I think you are totally taking this out of context. I suggest you study Ephesians 5 more closely, verses 21 and ff.

Quote
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

The husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. The head of woman is man, the head of man is Christ and therefore, in essence we both are submitting to one another and to Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Holy Spirit clearly uses the singular tense in referring to a man and his wife.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: zoonance on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 14:35:18
I haven't read all of these.   Is it permissible to give it the ol' BCV argument?

Show me BCV that says directly that a man can not have multiple wives!   (except for the elder/deacon passages of course)

Show me BCV that a man can not marry his pet!


I submit, therefore, that God only gave us a glimpse of the ideal.  We are free in Christ to marry whoever and as many as we want to! Who are you to judge?  etc etc etc.    *This approach works pretty well on a lot of issues, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 14:36:49
 ::geek::
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 14:44:34
You say that you are praying that the right woman comes along soon.
God will not answer a prayer that is against His will. if someone does come along, it wont be God who has answered your prayer, and I will give you 2 guesses who it will be. I'll give you a clue, it is someone who loves to disort Godly Christian marriages and who loves to cause unhappiness and dishormany in a marriage.
I am sure that some women here may like to meet a male equviliant to a 'voluptous woman' but we are more than happy wih the husbands that God has blessed us with and know that he looks on those who commit adultery or fornication with strong disfavour. Havent you read what will happen to those who openly commit adultery?
They have no place in the kingdom. If I were you I would stick to what God says, it isnt worth having another woman to  have sex with and then to loose your soul.
God will not bless  a marriage where the marriage bed is defiled. God says that it is defiled when one spouse is unfaithful and you will be being unfaithful, AND saying that God permits it which is even worse..

Thank God for the wife that you have. Many men dont have a wife so be content with her and with the children that he blesses you with together.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 14:46:06
I haven't read all of these.   Is it permissible to give it the ol' BCV argument?

Show me BCV that says directly that a man can not have multiple wives!   (except for the elder/deacon passages of course)

Show me BCV that a man can not marry his pet!


I submit, therefore, that God only gave us a glimpse of the ideal.  We are free in Christ to marry whoever and as many as we want to! Who are you to judge?  etc etc etc.    *This approach works pretty well on a lot of issues, doesn't it?


???
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Bon Voyage on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 14:54:25
I haven't read all of these.   Is it permissible to give it the ol' BCV argument?

Show me BCV that says directly that a man can not have multiple wives!   (except for the elder/deacon passages of course)

Show me BCV that a man can not marry his pet!


I submit, therefore, that God only gave us a glimpse of the ideal.  We are free in Christ to marry whoever and as many as we want to! Who are you to judge?  etc etc etc.    *This approach works pretty well on a lot of issues, doesn't it?


???

Sarcasm can often be confused as the rantings of a crazy person, but zoonance is not advocating marrying your poodle.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Just As I Am on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 14:56:00
Didn't think so.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Memphis Dwight on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 15:27:35
zoonance, marry your pet? 
Leviticus 20:15
And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

Since we're at it:

And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters.
And Joash did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: kensington on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 15:28:28
Show me BCV that a man can not marry his pet!


Exodus 22:19...  

I guess you can marry them, but don't have sex with them.   ???  
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: zoonance on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 15:35:50
I haven't read all of these.   Is it permissible to give it the ol' BCV argument?

Show me BCV that says directly that a man can not have multiple wives!   (except for the elder/deacon passages of course)

Show me BCV that a man can not marry his pet!


I submit, therefore, that God only gave us a glimpse of the ideal.  We are free in Christ to marry whoever and as many as we want to! Who are you to judge?  etc etc etc.    *This approach works pretty well on a lot of issues, doesn't it?


???

Sarcasm can often be confused as the rantings of a crazy person, but zoonance is not advocating marrying your poodle.


No, but there is this hot dachsund....
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: zoonance on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 15:38:01
zoonance, marry your pet? 
Leviticus 20:15
And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

Since we're at it:

And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters.
And Joash did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest.



That was OT.    God has become a christian since then on a number of issues He no longer meant.
Show me BCV that a man can not marry his pet!


Exodus 22:19...  

I guess you can marry them, but don't have sex with them.   ???  



Interesting.  In our culture, that can happen (between people!) and the marriage be anulled legally due to intimacy deficiency.   Was it ever a marriage?  When does a marriage really become a marriage?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: fanuvmxpx on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 15:47:07
I haven't seen anyone say this yet...

Would anyone actually WANT 2 wives, or 2 concubines? I Love my spouse with all my heart, but there is no way I could physically or mentally balance two women.

And that's not to say 1 negative thing about women. Simply that I could not handle 2 different personalities, sex drives, needs, wants, reproduction desires, styles, tastes, life views, personal hygiene, favorite tv shows, expectations for social gatherings (parties, friends over), types of friends, personal things they don't like about me, etc. etc. etc.

One is a blessing and one is plenty  ::juggle::
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DCR on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 15:52:53
What I'm promoting is polygyny. 

What?!  Have I logged into the Twilight Zone, here?  That's what I get for not being on the forum much for a few days.  Carry on.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: cristals mama on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 16:03:06
Maybe the laws regarding physical relations also have to do with ownership.  Father has rights to daughter, she is his property until she becomes married and then the ownership passes to the husband. 

I would like for my second wife to be very physically voluptuous.  Because usually that is a sign of fertility.  If she looks like Venus Williams, well then that would be awesome.  We’re praying that the right woman comes along soon. 



 ::headspin::
I am sorry but to draw a quote from 'Finding Nemo'  - "There's something wrong with you, really!"       Perhaps you can address the questions and references pointed out to you regarding the New Testament instead of avoiding them and picking and choosing that which suits you and out of context at that- everyone is still waiting   ::bracingmyself::
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: sopranette on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 16:14:52
Memphis, using the logic you have presented here, saying that our OT patriarchs did it, you could also say owning slaves would be perfectly fine today.

love,

Sopranette
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: kensington on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 16:20:05
It used to be at consummation... but I don't think anyone cares now. 

I was being sarcastic  rofl  ... You know I won the prize for being the MOST sarcastic poster.  Did you vote for me??   ::saint::
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Charles Sloan on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 16:24:01
Maybe the laws regarding physical relations also have to do with ownership.  Father has rights to daughter, she is his property until she becomes married and then the ownership passes to the husband. 

I would like for my second wife to be very physically voluptuous.  Because usually that is a sign of fertility.  If she looks like Venus Williams, well then that would be awesome.  We’re praying that the right woman comes along soon. 



 ::headspin::
I am sorry but to draw a quote from 'Finding Nemo'  - "There's something wrong with you, really!"       Perhaps you can address the questions and references pointed out to you regarding the New Testament instead of avoiding them and picking and choosing that which suits you and out of context at that- everyone is still waiting   ::bracingmyself::

I noticed Mr. Muchos Mamasitas Memphis has been ignoring my posts despite the fact he claimed in the opening post to have started this thread to discuss this topic with me specifically.

I find that ironic.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Imabear on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 17:28:08
Memphis Dwight,

All I can say is I think you need to take a good look at your heart in all of these things you have been posting, here and in other threads.

A man is to love his wife with agape love.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.  Love never ends.

I hope you treat your wife in the way that God would have you treat her. 

Looking at what you've posted makes me believe that you are trying to justify being unfaithful to your wife.  You're looking for loopholes, and you're at the prime age for a mid-life crisis/fling.  Your wife deserves better.  I hope she knows that.

Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 20:46:21
I haven't seen anyone say this yet...

Would anyone actually WANT 2 wives, or 2 concubines? I Love my spouse with all my heart, but there is no way I could physically or mentally balance two women.

And that's not to say 1 negative thing about women. Simply that I could not handle 2 different personalities, sex drives, needs, wants, reproduction desires, styles, tastes, life views, personal hygiene, favorite tv shows, expectations for social gatherings (parties, friends over), types of friends, personal things they don't like about me, etc. etc. etc.

One is a blessing and one is plenty  ::juggle::
     


The trouble is that many sects who do have this marrying several women thing treat their wives like servants and their wives have little or no say in anything. They are certanly not allowed to ask their husbands not to have another woman,or to have any say in what their own needs or desires are or what they want. The are bought up to think that the man is  never to be questioned about anything and they have no say in anything that goes on. This is how it works for the man. The women are usually brainwashed into thinking that this is their lot in life and just to get on with it.

I STILL want to know what would happen to the millions of men who would be without wives if others had 2 or 3. Could you answer this memphis?In the sects where this goes on, the young men are chucked out of the families at a certain age so that the older men can have the girls and there are none left for the young guys.
Ugh, makes me feel sick.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: kensington on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 23:03:35
Statistically, that would not happen... "millions of men without wives"... as it's been recorded for decades that women outnumber men in the world.

I think those who are chucked out of the cults are better off... they can go find normal wives and marriages.  IMHO. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: kensington on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 23:06:54
Memphis, using the logic you have presented here, saying that our OT patriarchs did it, you could also say owning slaves would be perfectly fine today.

love,

Sopranette

Is he really serious?  If he is, about multiple wives, I'll never take anything he says seriously again.  Give me a break. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Mere Nick on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 23:23:36
I would love to have two or three wives.

Because of this I believe you will go to any length to justify polygamy.


Because of this I believe he is just a glutton for punishment.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Mere Nick on Fri Dec 05, 2008 - 23:27:59
The thing is, a bunch of guys having more than one wife means that there will be lots of guys with none.  If three women have the same husband, how is any of them having her own husband? 

"Let each woman have her own husband"?  Any volunteers to take on Janet Reno, guys?

Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: fanuvmxpx on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 00:18:17
The thing is, a bunch of guys having more than one wife means that there will be lots of guys with none.  If three women have the same husband, how is any of them having her own husband? 

"Let each woman have her own husband"?  Any volunteers to take on Janet Reno, guys?



How about Rue Paul?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 02:40:57
Statistically, that would not happen... "millions of men without wives"... as it's been recorded for decades that women outnumber men in the world.

I think those who are chucked out of the cults are better off... they can go find normal wives and marriages.  IMHO. 

Apparently, there are about equal numbers of men and women born now.If there are more women born it is usually only about one percent more. If there were many many men who wanted 2 or 3 or 4 wives, then there would be many many with no one to marry.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Quinn on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 05:51:38
In the early years of this country, certain men and women who considered themselves Christians made exactly the same arguments you are making:

It is in the Old Testament.
It is accepted in the Bible and appears to be approved by God.
It is “natural
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 06:55:33
As some one has already said it is really immaterial as to whether you want another woman in your life. If you marry again you are breaking the law of your country and could be jailed, and if you dont marry her and still sleep with her, you will be breaking Gods law by committing adultery or fornication. You will also be causing the other woman to committ adultery as she will  be sleeping with a married man. Also the marriage bed will be defiled becuase you are bringing another women into the marriage and being unfaithful to your wife.God cannot and will not bless a marriage where these things are happening and you will ultimately reap what you sow.

it is your decision but doesnt it seem strange to you that everyone here sems to see the total opposite to you from the Bible?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: zoonance on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 07:34:43
The thing is, a bunch of guys having more than one wife means that there will be lots of guys with none.  If three women have the same husband, how is any of them having her own husband? 

"Let each woman have her own husband"?  Any volunteers to take on Janet Reno, guys?






Janet Reno is hot!   At least she makes my blood boil.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: zoonance on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 07:38:33
In the early years of this country, certain men and women who considered themselves Christians made exactly the same arguments you are making:

It is in the Old Testament.
It is accepted in the Bible and appears to be approved by God.
It is “natural”.
It is “logical” - the strong and powerful ought to protect and care for the weak and disenfranchised.
Jesus never objected to it.
The NT writers never abolished it.
In fact, the NT writers spoke of it and gave advice regarding it.

What were THEY talking about? 


Slavery.


I'll take the advice of your tagline on this. 

Wasn't arguing.  Just stating facts.  Don't think you can dispute them.
I'll take my own advice now.


This was exactly my point about marrying your pet.   Same basic list can be used to justify whatever!   You can substitute slavery for homosexuality for example in our current social climate.   Especially if you throw out the OT since we are now only NT.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: sopranette on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 08:21:53
Memphis, using the logic you have presented here, saying that our OT patriarchs did it, you could also say owning slaves would be perfectly fine today.love,Sopranette
Is he really serious?  If he is, about multiple wives, I'll never take anything he says seriously again.  Give me a break. 
He is serious.  He'd better learn to live with the daily catfights, too, if this is what he really wants. That's what would happen, at least, in my home, if DH brought in a younger, cuter woman as his new "wife".  I KNOW I would make it a point to make her life miserable until she leaves. If he thinks the women will all just get alongs like the best of buddies, he's dreaming.

love,
Sopranette
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: cristals mama on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 08:32:19
Memphis, using the logic you have presented here, saying that our OT patriarchs did it, you could also say owning slaves would be perfectly fine today.love,Sopranette
Is he really serious?  If he is, about multiple wives, I'll never take anything he says seriously again.  Give me a break. 
He is serious.  He'd better learn to live with the daily catfights, too, if this is what he really wants. That's what would happen, at least, in my home, if DH brought in a younger, cuter woman as his new "wife".  I KNOW I would make it a point to make her life miserable until she leaves. If he thinks the women will all just get alongs like the best of buddies, he's dreaming.

love,
Sopranette


That's the thing Sopranette, if you read his words he also thinks women are property (daughters, wives...) that should be obedient to him (even as he is disobedient), he doesn't care what women want or think as his posts make it evident that we are not to be valued as daughters of Christ but instead only as a commodity.   Apparently he hasn't read Paul's words regarding husbands love you wives as Christ loves the church but instead is one those who disregards that section of the chapter and goes straight to the section addressing women, so he doesn't have to fulfill his part.  It's yet another case in society of me me me, I I I ....

What an example of Christ that is, I am thankful that my Lord and my Father in Heaven doesn't view me or my sisters in this way!
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: kensington on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 11:38:30
Here is what I see....

The word says that your body is not your own... that a man should fulfill his duty to "his wife" .. not wives.  And that she should do the same for him.  Not stand in line while he picks which wife he wants that night. 

Not at all.

I think this choice is about LUST... about having a Pornagraphic mind and self.  It's not about being a helpmate in marriage...  "Helpmate"... singular.  But in what the man can get for himself.  None of us are stupid, we've seen the stories and the way it goes in those kinds of marriages...  The man marries a young woman, a girl usually, and as she ages (AND SO DOES HE BY THE WAY) he goes and gets another YOUNG woman to bring into the house so he can keep renewing them and keeping his current squeeze YOUNG for himself.  While he just grows older and becomes the dirty old man forcing himself on young women sold to him in the name of keeping them young for the dad's who "OWN" them to begin with. 

I am convinced this is about a sexual bondage the man is in, and using younger women feeds it. 

Did I miss anything?  I doubt it.   ::tippinghat::
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Norton on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 12:37:12
I am looking for ten young wives and up to 800 healthy slaves to join me in a venture in Africa. All the Kool Aide you can drink.  Don't miss out.  Sign up today!
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Imabear on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 22:32:20
Statistically, that would not happen... "millions of men without wives"... as it's been recorded for decades that women outnumber men in the world.

I think those who are chucked out of the cults are better off... they can go find normal wives and marriages.  IMHO. 

Apparently, there are about equal numbers of men and women born now.If there are more women born it is usually only about one percent more. If there were many many men who wanted 2 or 3 or 4 wives, then there would be many many with no one to marry.
The fact is that there are more boys born than girls, by a very narrow margin... about 1%.  But boys... and men have a higher mortality rate,  so once you get over a certain age single women outnumber single men by a pretty big margin.  The problem is that these available women are mostly over 60 years old... and the men who want multiple spouses are looking for a much younger woman.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Sun Dec 07, 2008 - 03:32:31
Statistically, that would not happen... "millions of men without wives"... as it's been recorded for decades that women outnumber men in the world.

I think those who are chucked out of the cults are better off... they can go find normal wives and marriages.  IMHO. 

Apparently, there are about equal numbers of men and women born now.If there are more women born it is usually only about one percent more. If there were many many men who wanted 2 or 3 or 4 wives, then there would be many many with no one to marry.
The fact is that there are more boys born than girls, by a very narrow margin... about 1%.  But boys... and men have a higher mortality rate,  so once you get over a certain age single women outnumber single men by a pretty big margin.  The problem is that these available women are mostly over 60 years old... and the men who want multiple spouses are looking for a much younger woman.

EXACTLY
 they arent interested in someone of their age are they. It makes me feel ill when I think of these man who 'marry' girls who are sometimes young enough to be their granddaughters, and who are actually only children, and turn them into baby making machines and sex slaves. Awful. it must be child abuse surely.Trouble is they get away with it becuase the women are either too scared or too brainwashed to say anythuing agains the men so the police cant do much.
They would probably claim that younger women can give them more children, but why do they need so many children anyway, except to carry on the supply of young girls for the men to 'marry'and young lads who get churcked out.
it makes me feel angry that they can get away with it.
Why does anyone need more than a few children in this world where there are far too many anyway?   
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Victor08 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 - 13:19:45
I know this thread is old, but I was reading some of Pfc Hall’s posts and ran across this:


I would like for my second wife to be very physically voluptuous.  Because usually that is a sign of fertility.  If she looks like Venus Williams, well then that would be awesome.  We’re praying that the right woman comes along soon. 


Venus Williams - “physically voluptuous
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Wed Mar 28, 2012 - 14:00:36
I know this thread is old, but I was reading some of Pfc Hall’s posts and ran across this:


I would like for my second wife to be very physically voluptuous.  Because usually that is a sign of fertility.  If she looks like Venus Williams, well then that would be awesome.  We’re praying that the right woman comes along soon. 


Venus Williams - “physically voluptuous” ?
Memphis must have gotten the sisters mixed up, I think he meant Serena Williams. ::smile::

I cant tell the difference usually. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Thu Apr 19, 2012 - 13:21:35
Here is what I see....

The word says that your body is not your own... that a man should fulfill his duty to "his wife" .. not wives.  ....  Not stand in line while he picks which wife he wants that night.
.....
I think this choice is about LUST... about having a Pornagraphic mind and self.  
In first century Jewish culture multiple wives was rare, with the exception of levirite marriages. (but that was  rare as well)

Levirite marriage was commanded in the Law.  It did not matter if you were already married, if your brother dies childless, you had the duty to raise up children to him.

And BTW, there was no choosing who to be with tonight.  You were REQUIRED by Jewish Oral Law to keep all of them satisfied; and if you had a job that was not overly physical and kept you at home the requirement was DAILY. ** 

IOW, if a guy had 3 wives and was a shop keeper or a baker or some such trade, he had to sexually satisfy EACH of them every day.

I think that any lust associated with it would burn out fairly quickly.  

BTW, 1 Cor 7 is the ONLY place that says a woman should do that for her husband.  There are more scriptures going the other way.

** Mishnah tractate Ketubim
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Pfc Hall on Fri Apr 20, 2012 - 07:27:31
Dave,
it just seems like from quite a bit of your statements on here that you seem to think that Jewish oral tradition or writings are in some way binding?  Is that what you believe?
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Thu Apr 26, 2012 - 11:24:52
The thing is, a bunch of guys having more than one wife means that there will be lots of guys with none.

Not in a world where half or 3/4 of every generarion of the guys die in war.
Quote
If three women have the same husband, how is any of them having her own husband?  

"Her own" as in the one she is married to as opposed to having one NOT married to her.

But as Chosenone said, to do that now breaks the laws of almost every country.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Thu Apr 26, 2012 - 11:31:02
The thing is, a bunch of guys having more than one wife means that there will be lots of guys with none.

Not in a world where half or 3/4 of every generarion of the guys die in war.
Quote
If three women have the same husband, how is any of them having her own husband? 

"Her own" as in the one she is married to as opposed to having one NOT married to her.

But as Chosenone said, to do that now breaks the laws of almost every country.


 If a man has three 'wives' none of them have their 'own' husband, they are sharing one. I have my own husband because I am his only wife.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Thu Apr 26, 2012 - 11:49:58
If a man has three 'wives' none of them have their 'own' husband, they are sharing one. I have my own husband because I am his only wife.
I get what you are saying, but that is not the only way that phrase can be taken.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Mon Oct 15, 2012 - 10:34:59
Dave,
it just seems like from quite a bit of your statements on here that you seem to think that Jewish oral tradition or writings are in some way binding?  Is that what you believe?

Not at all, and sorry I missed this earlier.

The Oral tradition is the opinions of rabbis based on the collected wisdom of the Jews relating to God for centuries.   As such it gives a great backdrop to the NT scriptures and there is much that can be taken as sage advice.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Mon Oct 15, 2012 - 13:25:36
If a man has three 'wives' none of them have their 'own' husband, they are sharing one. I have my own husband because I am his only wife.
I get what you are saying, but that is not the only way that phrase can be taken.
  I have my own husband. He is faithful to me. If he had another lady I would not have my own husband in that sense, and he would be cheating on me. She would be his lover with whom he was committing adultery, apart from the fact that its only legal to have one spouse anyway.
Dave I have discussed this in the past many times with pfc hall and with Memphis when he was here. These are mormon beliefs,whose originator apparently had a 'divine revelation' telling him that men could have multiple wives(which was very conventent as he was already having sex with other women). Mormon practises have no place here.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Tue Oct 16, 2012 - 07:17:44
Chosen, I respect the Word of God.  While I find the idea of complex marriage personally repugnant, I have to admit that the text of the Word does not disallow it.
It also allows slavery.  ::youmakemesick::

But those who participate in those things in the western world are in violation of scripture because they go against the laws of the land.

But it is of vital import that we do not let our own personal or cultural biases interpret scripture for us.  The only proper cultural context for interpretation is the one in which the original author and audience existed. So to properly understand what Jesus or Paul said in reference to this, you need to know what the first century Judaic cultural practices and attitudes on multiple wives were.  Fortunately that has been recorded for us in the Mishnah and Talmuds.

IT was extremely limited,  A man had to be VERY wealthy to have a 2nd wife.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Pfc Hall on Tue Oct 16, 2012 - 08:14:57
I'm not going to address every nitpicky ticky tacky statement made by our two hoverers who circle around marriage and catholic discussions all day long.  I've got important things to do and I don't have fibromyalgia. 

However, what DaveW writes is not accurate information. 
Quote
IT was extremely limited,  A man had to be VERY wealthy to have a 2nd wife.

Because the average family of the nation of Israel had 54 children.   (http://www.christianpoly.org/numbered.php)
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 - 08:22:51
Dave. Its clear in the NT that each woman is to have her own husband, and not someone elses husband. Gods intention was always to have one woman and one man becoming one flesh, and yet some men seem to think they know better than God???? Rather arrogant for any man to believe that I think. ::eek::   
As you say though, in most countries a man can only be legally married to one lady anyway, so its not an option.  If you arent married then you are sinning sexually to have more than one lady living with you. Not sinning in the worlds eyes, because any thing goes there, including adultery and fornication, but in Gods eyes you are not keeping the marriage bed pure or being faithful to your wife.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Tue Oct 16, 2012 - 11:25:30
Quote from: pfc hall
However, what DaveW writes is not accurate information.
Quote
IT was extremely limited,  A man had to be VERY wealthy to have a 2nd wife.
Because the average family of the nation of Israel had 54 children.


Your link is either deceptive or just plain wrong. What may have been true of certain rich kings and nobles at 1000 bc was NOT true of first century Judea - the time of the writing of the NT. And even at 1000 bc, the life style of the royals has little in common with the life of the average Jew in the street.

There was never anything inherently godly or glamorous in having another wife. It was a physical necessity due to the diminished numbers of men available.  They died off due to wars and other reasons.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Tue Oct 16, 2012 - 11:39:33
Quote from: pfc hall
However, what DaveW writes is not accurate information.
Quote
IT was extremely limited,  A man had to be VERY wealthy to have a 2nd wife.
Because the average family of the nation of Israel had 54 children.


Your link is either deceptive or just plain wrong. What may have been true of certain rich kings and nobles at 1000 bc was NOT true of first century Judea - the time of the writing of the NT. And even at 1000 bc, the life style of the royals has little in common with the life of the average Jew in the street.

There was never anything inherently godly or glamorous in having another wife. It was a physical necessity due to the diminished numbers of men available.  They died off due to wars and other reasons.
 
 
Yes which is NOT the case now of course, when the numbers of male to females is approx 50%, and  women can provide for themselves if they have to.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 07:15:01
Yes which is NOT the case now of course, when the numbers of male to females is approx 50%, and  women can provide for themselves if they have to.

Agreed and also agree that those are good things. There is no need for multiple wives in this world.

That said, however, we should not change the word of God or our interpretation of it just because the social situation is different.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 07:20:03
I cant see anywhere in the NT that allows more than one wife or husband. The opposite in fact. After all God does know best in the end.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 08:03:57
Chosen - we are coming to the NT text from different hermeneutics.

To me, anything not specifically addressed, modified or abolished in the Hebrew scriptures by the New Covenant carries over into the New Covenant.

The same argument is what the Church of Christ uses to disallow instruments in their worship service.  Even though it is commanded in the OT, there is no text allowing it in the NEW so they are forbidden.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 08:09:27
Chosen - we are coming to the NT text from different hermeneutics.

To me, anything not specifically addressed, modified or abolished in the Hebrew scriptures by the New Covenant carries over into the New Covenant.

The same argument is what the Church of Christ uses to disallow instruments in their worship service.  Even though it is commanded in the OT, there is no text allowing it in the NEW so they are forbidden.
 
However Dave it is addressed by Paul.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: Pfc Hall on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 10:22:42
God not only sanctions marriage, He invented it.

Marriage, and its accompanying undefiled relationship (bed), are both honorable.  God not only NEVER has shown a disdain for plural wives, He commanded it in some places. 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 13:12:14
This commentary is good and confirms (if it was needed) that Paul said for each woman to have her own husband. All the commentators agree here that this is what Paul meant, that more than one wife or husband is strictly forbidden.
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/7-2.htm (http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/7-2.htm)
 
 
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 13:49:17
Chosen - you are relying on a gentile commentator to explain the writings of a Jewish author.  His statement (Barnes notes) that "Polygamy is unlawful under the gospel; and divorce is unlawful" is unsupported.  And since you have been divorced, you yourself are in violation of it.

Even John Gill makes an unsupported statement on this phrase.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: chosenone on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 13:53:29
Chosen - you are relying on a gentile commentator to explain the writings of a Jewish author.  His statement (Barnes notes) that "Polygamy is unlawful under the gospel; and divorce is unlawful" is unsupported.  And since you have been divorced, you yourself are in violation of it.

Even John Gill makes an unsupported statement on this phrase.
 
Commentators. There were a few.
Title: Re: Let Each Woman Have Her Own Husband
Post by: DaveW on Wed Oct 17, 2012 - 14:03:06
My understanding of the background to the text of 1 Cor 7 from a greek scholar (I think it was Derek Prince) was this:

Somewhere the corinthian congregation got the bright idea that it was better to serve the Lord as singles instead of married. (just like Paul) so couples divorced.  But many found that being single was too difficult and so to not fornicate got remarried but not to their original spouses.  (remember that polygamy was rare in both Jewish and Greek society) And then they would break up again and start the process over.

So the apostle tells them to either stay married, or if you divorce, go back to your previous spouse.  So the "each have their own husband/wife" is NOT a doctrinal statement on banning polygny but practical advice on maintaining and restoring existing covenant relationships.  We from the modern world look at that and it seems obvious to us that it is saying more than what it would have been understood to say by the original audience.