GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage  (Read 52219 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tallat

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
  • Manna: 2
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« on: Sun Jan 30, 2011 - 10:38:12 »
Originally, when I first created this thread, it was with the sole purpose of trying to find others who were in a similar experience as myself. I know that there are many people out there, but it seems like it's hard to talk about...especially if you're a Christian.

A few weeks ago, I deleted almost all of my posts from here. I did this mainly because I was so tired of people trying to 'fix' my situation and my spouse. I didn't come on here for that. I came on here to hear from other people who are living in a loveless, sexless marriage. I want to know if you struggle emotionally and spiritually like I do. Or what are the ways that you have learned to cope? If you ended up divorced, are you glad, or do you have regrets now that you look back? How do you think the children are affected...not just by divorce, but also by seeing parents in a poor model of a marriage when there's no love or affection?

So, if you're reading this, and you're living in the same type of marriage that I am, please take a moment to post on here about your experience and how you deal, or have dealt, with it. It helps to know that you're not alone and that there are other people who are going through the same pain and frustration.
« Last Edit: Wed Nov 16, 2011 - 09:34:21 by tallat »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« on: Sun Jan 30, 2011 - 10:38:12 »

Offline Thankfulldad

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3095
  • Manna: 222
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jan 30, 2011 - 11:01:18 »
So sorry you have been carrying this burden; there is no easy answer, some will say live with it, some will say...get to the root of the problem and fix it.  Some will say pray, some will say put yourself in God's hands. 

Marraige is work...but, both need to work at it or it is all for not.  I would take your husband before the pastor and lay it all out there.  Maybe women will agree with me on this; I know when it is a man that is not getting the affection, some will say just live with it....don't put her through the humiliation.

Regardless...life, marraige life is self-less giving of one self to the other.  Your husband is not giving...he needs to know the truth!!!  And as a child of God....live the truth!!!  With the Holy Spirit working in His life...he can change!!!

Offline Nathanael

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
  • Manna: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #2 on: Tue Feb 01, 2011 - 06:27:17 »
I feel your hurt and am so sorry for you, I know how it feels to be lonely in mariage and starved of affection to the point of desperation. Its extremely hard.

You have sought God and He seems to have not responded, not answered, I know that painful place too. The reaction of your friends is sad and wrong, you need care and compassion not turned backs on you.

Perhaps you could take a fresh look at scripture. God created us to love and be loved by the opposite sex. Your needs are normal and marriage is the place God has provided for that to be lived out.

At the moment your husband seems to have no interest in fulfilling his part, which is to put your needs above his own. Perhaps certain things have happened between you that have caused walls to go up? Does he give any reason for his attitude? My soon to be ex wife had physcological issues to do with sex (due to being molested by a stranger in the street as a teen) which she took into our marriage. Then other pressures and trials increased her coldness over a period of years.

For your own sake you are probably going to need to set objectives. for example, you could commit to pray with a sympathetic christian friend (female only) for a period of forty days, that your husband will soften and change his hardness towards you and God. (he may think he is a faithful believer but his attitude to his marriage reveals a very hard heart to God) I know you already prayed but saving your marriage is worth a huge, perhaps last ditch, effort.

During the forty days you could embark on the 'Love Dare'.

At the end of the forty days you can review things and see what step is next. I do not think it is 'Gods will' for you to endure such a marriage. Marriage is about the participation of TWO people and God. I cannot agree with 'teaching' that says you should put up with being told you are not loved and never have been loved by your husband, with such an emotional abuse also being acted out through lack of physical affection.

Its like having a agonising cut in your flesh and not praying and if needs be getting it treated medically so that you end up poisoned and infected. Emotional torment through lack of affection from the one person you have devoted yourself to for life is just as deadly.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #2 on: Tue Feb 01, 2011 - 06:27:17 »

Offline PatientMan

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Manna: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #3 on: Thu Feb 03, 2011 - 11:14:45 »
Hello tallat.  I am grieve with you about your situation.  However, take heart because there is hope.  This is a Christian forum, you are Christian, so let me give you my heart and mind from a Christian perspective.  I've been married for 23 years and feel as though there isn't much between my wife and I in the realm of sexuality, intimacy, or togetherness in general.  However, we are functional.  Anyway, even though your situation looks dim I believe that it can turn around.  However, it will take selfless work on your part.

At this time I do not recommend that you take your husband before a pastor or any other counselor because that quite honestly will probably drive him further away.  At this point and time it appears that he has no desire to get together with you, but that can change.  Remember this one fact, which I tell people all of the time: Your husband is human and he does respond to things.  So give him something to respond to.  In no way am I suggesting that you have not done that in the past or that in any way this is your fault so to speak.  Remember that your husband is human and responds to things.  Therefore, since he married you in the first place I think it would be prudent to find out why he married you and what went awry from his perspective.  The only way you can do that is if you communicate.  Sure that is difficult now, but remember things can change.

With that said you must put your faith in God and assume that the marriage is restored and then do what you need to do to manifest that.  Remember that God is for marriages so he is on your side here.  It may look dismal now, but that again can change.  Are you ready.  Here is what I suggest.

Be kind to him even though he is not kind to you.  Love him even though he claims he doesn't love you (that can change in him).  Do good for him.  Treat him with respect and honor expecting nothing in return.  Consider a seed being planted in the ground.  You water when necessary, but you have no idea what it looks like under ground.  Soon you will see changes in him, but don't get ahead of yourself.  Stay in faith in God knowing that God is working through you and in your situation to restore your marriage.

Treat him as you would want to be treated even though he may not do it.  Say, "Good night" to him or good morning and just keep going like nothing happened.  Read your bible and say things that come from your bible reading.  For example, you could make a simple statement, "I learned that God really cares about me today.  That's refreshing."  After some time (at your discretion) you could say something like, "God loves you so I guess I love you too."  Just do little things and work your way up.  The above are only suggestions or guideliness.  You apply them as you see fit.  The ultimate goal however is to create a dialogue between you and your husband so that this can be resolved.

Move slowly and nudge the relationship along little by little.  Resolve the issues between the two of you and move to the next step.  Soon you'll have date nights and the flame is blazing again.  Surprise him with a gift--a small one.  Don't retaliate, but love him.  After all that is how God treats us.

Above all know that your marriage can turn around so believe that it will...that it has by faith and act on that belief.  I hope this helps.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #3 on: Thu Feb 03, 2011 - 11:14:45 »

Offline mandyM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #4 on: Fri Sep 09, 2011 - 01:10:09 »
Love, passion, and intimacy between a married couple are very important for them to have a long lasting healthy relationship and same as respect with each others' stuffs. But other couples have other hot big issues not with the later but with intercourse. For others, sex is a very big deal in a relationship and yes, it is really an important part between married couples and that is a hot issue nowadays. Comedian Rodney Dangerfield once said, “My psychiatrist said my wife and I should have sex every night. Now, we'll never see each other!

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #4 on: Fri Sep 09, 2011 - 01:10:09 »



Offline PatientMan

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Manna: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #5 on: Fri Sep 09, 2011 - 04:56:04 »
I agree.  Lack of sex in a marriage is a symptom of another problem.  It could be a medical condition, e.g., hormone problems, or it could be a lack of intimacy.  Sex is very important.  I consider the many empires that came down because of sexuality and the number of people who have had their lives ruined because of sex (adultery for example).  I recall when I was in grade school when a presentation was given to encourage us not to be part of the gang wars.  It was said, to my surprise, that most of the gang wars started over a girl.  Anyway sex is important and should not be ignored in a marriage.  Without it, for whatever reason, the relationship becomes strained and can indeed end whether it ends in divorce or not. 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #5 on: Fri Sep 09, 2011 - 04:56:04 »

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #6 on: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 00:35:29 »
He has already divorced himself from you and given himself up into whatever negative resentful state of mind rut. I highly suggest you do shake things up. I would suggest a separation, and that's not said lightly from a man going through a separation that is very hard for him.

You cannot allow your husband to treat you like this. It is not a christian additude from him.

He can protect himself from "actuall" hurt if he turns off emotionally like this. Despite that he is hurting all the time. He is in a mental trap of his own making.

Read the book love must be tough if you need encouragement. I applaud you for not turning his sin into your sin for this long. You God given will for a connection and sex knows full well this isn't right. You need to be the one to break the cycle. In six more years you will be in the same spot unless you make it change. It doesn't have to be divorce, but something else to stop this. Separation, marriage counseling, personal counseling, talk with pastor. Start small if you want and step it up, but you cannot be OK with this behavior.

Love is a choice not a feeling many times. Love doesn't spring up from the actions your husband is taking. He has killed any chance for it. It can come if he cares.

I wish there were more I could say, but the answer to your story lies in you making your situation different. I very much feel for you. Your husband treating you like this is horrible. He can chose a new path. His current path is already divorced from you.

Perhaps start a process of legal separation with child support and tell him as soon as it goes through you are moving out. Tell him you will stop the separation if full marriage counseling and putting this action before a pastor starts now.

Blessings

Offline TJW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 487
  • Manna: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #7 on: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 07:55:20 »

That is why you need to take the 5 years you have to develop some skills, get education, etc, the things which can change your earning capability.

And, I agree with you that you are already divorced in the real sense, the legal paper is only a formality at this point.

Offline TJW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 487
  • Manna: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #8 on: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 13:37:23 »
Good move.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #8 on: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 13:37:23 »

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #9 on: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 18:46:07 »
I want to challenge you to do something.

First, you may have already done something like this. If you have, then I applaud you, but I you haven't I want you to try.

Quote
Mathew 18:15-17
    15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Go and talk to a pastor or the Godliest man or woman you know. Someone whose opinion and counsel is good, clearly lives a Christian life every day, and is well known for kindness and love. I have known Godly people in my life who are the most loving and kind people I know go before a person and be salty for God and what is right and bring zeal to confront a wrong. A counselor would work too. Open up about this 110%. Get your husband then in front of the same person or pastor a week or two later. Bring this 100% out into the light and open. The pastor or person will clearly tell him that what he is doing is wrong and sinful and carrying out a sinful life full of anger and resentment is contrary to a christian life and lifestyle.

You husband does not deserve a second chance at his marriage, but none of us deserve salvation.

Quote
Mathew 6: 5-15
   5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
   9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

   “‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
   on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
   as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
   but deliver us from the evil one.

   14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

The lords prayer in Mathew is followed by a verse that challenges many of us to our core. Healing and restoration of your marriage is possible from BOTH of you, however, your husband needs to be in and committed to the marriage first, which he has up until this point refused to do. It will take time and be difficult to fix, but I can tell you that IF your husband does change his mind with help by God its worth it. If your husband has totally given himself up into this mess in his head, then bring him before your pastor or even the church to clearly tell him this is wrong.

I really want to you do this. It will probably be one of the most difficult things you will ever do, but 5 more years of this garbage isn't any better.  For me, my marriage difficulties has been easily the hardest thing I've ever done. There is simply no comparison to anything else. The next closest challenge in my life is grad school, and it does not even close to match the emotional struggle, struggle to become a better man and husband, and to change anything needed to make this work.

Blessings
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 18:54:37 by anx »

Offline GodWithUs777

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • Manna: 2
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #10 on: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 20:38:07 »
As for forgiving my husband, I do the best I can to not let things bother me, but it's really hard when it's perpetually in your face every single day. Usually, once you forgive for something, it's in the past and you can move on. But in my case, it's like being beaten every day and yet having to forgive while knowing you're going to be beaten again tomorrow. It just doesn't end and that makes it hard.

I just want to say that you can forgive him without staying in this marriage.  Forgiveness is to let go of all bitterness and anger towards someone for whatever wrong they did, and you can do that without staying around.  If you want to stick it out until your son and you graduate, thats fine too.  Its good that you are preparing yourself for what may come if you have to leave. 

I'm assuming that your husband is aware of his responsibilities as a husband.  His choice to neglect those responsibilities divorces him from you.  Doesn't he love you?  Does he care if you leave?  Was he like this when you married him?  Keep praying, but pray that God would give you peace, strength and joy.  Also pray that God would change your husband into the man he created him to be.  We can pray for you and him too. 

Im sorry your church is not an encouragement.  Coming here was a good move, there are a lot of people with great insights here.  Whatever you choose to do, remember just that, that it is your choice.  I pray that God will give you wisdom and strength while you go through this trial. 

James 1 "2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.

Blessings.

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #11 on: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 22:41:06 »
Wow, the stuff about your church isn't easy to read. Being shunned for that is pretty horrible. You did the right thing by going to other people with you issue and they failed you. I have been beyond blessed by the little church I found next to me. Despite small in a big city, they are alive and well.

The church that I grew up in specifically gave a 6 week sermon series on marriage and told the congregation to get help and fix things if needed. (autumn ridge church in Rochester MN if you are interested in hearing the sermons online- they were a blessing to me)

I think your husband probably isn't a true christian or is willing to put faith way in the back of his life, and that may very well be part of the church's issue if he has been there a long time. I'm not sure he can act like that and still just use his faith as a crutch like that. I certainly would not be certain of his salvation if he keeps a heart full of this garbage and is unwilling to change or care.  Going to church every weekend and then spending all your time at home unrepentant treating your wife like garbage does not sound like he is filled with the holy spirit and given his full heart, soul, mind, and strength to God. A circumcised heart is called for, not showing up and doing the motions every week. There is a tremendous difference I'm sure you are aware of.

Galatians 5
 
Quote
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
 16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

How many fruits of the spirit would you say you see in your husband? How many acts of flesh would you say you see? (hatred, discord, selfish ambitions, more?) Does he love is neighbor(you are one of them) than himself?

I agree that forgiveness really would require repentance or space and time away from him, and very well might mean cutting all contact in a few years and giving up any will to harm him and leave that to God.

Is there any hope of going to a new church? One that is alive and full of God? That may be a powerful change in your life.

Something needs to change. You husband is stuck and unwilling to change. You church is of no help despite the fact that their role should be support and help in your marriage and rebuttal of your husbands actions. What can YOU do to break this cycle? I don't know the answer. Prayer like you have been doing is a great thing, but I think you need to act somehow.

Can you move into a different room in the house? Is actually filing for separation with support possible and financially possible?

If you do move to another room and go to a counselor, would he divorce you? Could you make ends meet with the settlement and support?

Finally, I listened to an upcoming sermon series about being a true christian that you might find valuable. The sermons are played on my local christian radio station.
http://www.gty.org/products/Audio+Series/223#.TnwCkMLCuTk
The sermons are free of you click on listen. I very much like the preacher and sermons and listed to a ton from him now.

Blessing and prayers
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 22, 2011 - 23:16:02 by anx »

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #12 on: Fri Sep 23, 2011 - 19:46:23 »
One more thought. You have a lot of very good reasons why you are stuck in this rut. How can you get out without waiting 5 years and divorcing your husband?

College is a great start. What else?

Offline martial

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #13 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 07:48:21 »
It is very sad to see a human being be treated like this. I can't imagine somebody going through this.
I am a  christian and I am not religious. Listen to your cry, there some questions that come to my mind. There certainly something more profound that you are not telling about either yourselve or your husband. For a man to go cold on his wife or the opposite, there most be a wound somewhere that needs to be healed. Unless that is done, there will never be a happiness relationship in your home. These are some questions that I would like you to think about:
-If you had a affair or any kind of a relationship with another man in the past  and your husband is aware, that can make him to behave such and live in regret.
-Maybe he is having something link to his heath and does not want you to know about.
-Maybe he had a affair that has landed him in hot water with his health and in order to protect you, he does not want to make love with you

Try to investigate those areas. If there is nothing, then he is selfish and ungodly. He need to know God and stop making you suffer, he his worse than an infidel. Therefore, I will sugest you to bring the matter to your pastor and to families as a last result because you cannot expect to live the rest of your life like that.
God wants us to enjoy sex in the marriage.
Please read my blog: BLOG.SUCCESSFULRELATIONSHIPANDMARRIAGE.INFO
you can read the book: Successful Marriage takes work by Sunday Adelaja at www.themonenes.co.uk or amazon

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #14 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 12:22:51 »
You need emotional walls built around lies as high and deep as you can create them to do what he is doing to he. He absolutely has has guilt but is so emotaionlly walled off from himself that it doesn't affect him.

Although he seems happy, I think its more in control when he is alone. He can do whatever he wants and doesn't have to face emotions. A lack of drive to socialize and have a happy marriage isn't normal and SOMETHING messed up in his head (emotional walls, anger, whatever) is keeping him from that.

DO NOT have an affair. I applaud you for the strength you have had up until this point.

Revelations 3 (I've seen a few commentaries that direct these verses at the current church)
Quote
   14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
   These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

   19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

   21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Have you ever been to marriage counseling? We have a great counselor that I found online nearby. She is a 20 year counselor that specializes in counseling issues that we had (not specifially marriage, but she does marriage counselor). A skilled, christian counselor can dig this up. I am convinced he has to have emotional walls built as high as the sky to act like this. He will never tell you why EVER. There is a good chance its low self-esteem. Even if he is successful, its common. The issues in my own marriage could never be fixed by me. Even if I knew every facet of them. Without the help of this counselor, opening up these issues that were emotionally walled off would never have happened.

Growing up, he may have simply found it easier to wall off than seek praise, connection, and love of another. It doesn't even have to be anything major that causes it. Build that up over 30 years, and your left with your husband.

My suggestion would be getting in front of a SKILLED and EXPERIENCED marriage counselor and start talking. Even if you have resentment (you haven't said much about it, but this man has hurt you tremendously), I ask you get it going. Even if just for this man's eternal soul and not out of a will to be continued to be married to him. He still can return to the marriage and be a great husband IF HE CHOOSES.

You have 5 years and I ask you to PLEASE try counseling with someone skilled and experienced. It will be cheaper than a months rent in whatever place you would move into.

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #15 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 12:25:34 »
John 3
 
Quote
1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again”

 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

 9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

   10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

The fruits of the spirit are then an easy checklist of whether we are of the flesh or spirit.

Probably everyone reading this KNOWS John 3:16, but the passage leading up to it calls to be born again of the spirit. There is a HUGE difference between believing the gospels and ACTUALLY living it out and letting the holy spirit wash over you, convict you of your wrongs, and guide you out of your comfort zones to help someone in need. You know clearly in your husband the difference between living a religious life (church on sunday and belief) and totally giving your life over to a righteous life with God in control.  That is probably a HUGE issue for him. Being alone and walled off is an ultimate form of control. Nothing can affect him. He probably has a similar issue opening up to God like he cannot open up to you.

Finally, I know it seems like God is a million miles away when it comes to your marriage.
John 3
Quote
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

I spent 7 years not in a marriage with a spouse that at times emotionally walled off from me. I struggled at times to even see a glimmer of hope and nothing I did, said, or anything else mattered. I can't even imagine how hard 14 years of a spouse that treats you like that has been. BUT, the thing that has come out of it is now you are totally ready to walk out. You said you would sleep in a homeless shelter if not for your son. Use that in your marriage to really put everything on the table and say "get in MC or we are done". Very often it takes that. Its sad that when people get to counseling, they are often so fed up that much of counseling is working on being totally checked out and not totally on the problems that caused it. However, we are also totally broken and on our knees willing to let God guide and direct. Suffering is often what it takes to bring us there. Suffering was what brought the isrealites back over and over and over again to God.

James 1
Quote
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.
 9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower. 11 For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business.

 12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

 13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

 16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

Your husband's sin brought you to this point. Its probably not your fault, but it has affected you greatly. He needs to give himself/open himself up to God FIRST then he can do the same to you. He unfortunately may be totally given up into this frame of mind and emotional walls, but please try again in the next 5 years to crack that open (with the help of a skilled, experianced, christain counselor). If you do decide to do counseling and he agrees to it, put some serious prayer and fasting into the choice of a counselor. Biblical style, totally before God and dependent on his love and mercy. Your husband doesn't deserve any more emotional hardship from you, BUT cracking open your husband and bringing him back to you and God is worth it AND we never deserved salvation.

Daniel 9
Quote
1 In the first year of Darius son of Xerxes (a Mede by descent), who was made ruler over the Babyloniam kingdom— 2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. 3 So I turned to the Lord God and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes.

Daniel 10
Quote
1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel (who was called Belteshazzar). Its message was true and it concerned a great war.[a] The understanding of the message came to him in a vision.
 2 At that time I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks. 3 I ate no choice food; no meat or wine touched my lips; and I used no lotions at all until the three weeks were over.
 4 I prayed to the LORD my God and confessed:
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 13:18:53 by anx »

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #16 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 15:36:37 »
It very much sounds like you've done what you should have done. It would rock my faith and personhood to be in your position for this long.

It sounds like you have a number of very good reasons why this is so stuck ( husband doesn't care, church unwilling to be helpful and would probably be judging, counseling years ago was pointless, etc)

As I've said before, short of God intervening, there's no answer or solution unless I just choose to uproot myself and my son

I would change what you said slightly. Unless one of the reason you are stuck budges, then there isn't hope outside divine intervention. Support from your church or a new church, counseling if he agreed to go to some with someone skilled, a time of separation and see if that rocks things.

I don't know why you have had to waited so long for an answer to your prayer other than God's timeline is far longer than our own at times. there are many of examples in the bible where God's timeline seems longer what human minds think should be needed. (Jacobs 14 years in genesis 29, Joseph's 2 years in prison in genesis 39, 40 years in the desert in numbers 13, David anointed in Samuel 16 but it takes many many years till he is king and sauls supporters are cleared in Samuel 5, job probably took many many years to rebuild what he once had, and many many others).

I have no idea what the outcome of your story will be, but I hope it contains many blessings. God hasn't forgotten or forsaken you. I hope those sermons are an encouragement. Many of them hit me hard and really changed my Outlook. The anxiety free living ones were a huge blessing to me. For what its worth, I am impressed and applaud you for keeping the faith in this all and not doing something like an affair.

Blessings and prayers
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 15:44:16 by anx »

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #17 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 15:51:52 »
From my outside perspective, I think the strongest thing you could do is go to the church. If you said hoe committed you were, the prayer and work you have put in and how your husband has responded, it might finally rock your husband. He is willing to treat you like this and just wait till he died.

If it truly came before him that his church was asking him to not come anymore and truly challenging his faith like they should, he very well might wake up. If getting kicked out of church and losing your wife at the same time doesn't wake him up, nothing will.

Being asked by the pastor why he treats you like this and how he thinks that's ok and he answers him "i don't know" won't fly. He can answer you that and not care, but answering that to the pastor is hopefully something that will have an outcome. At this point, what do you have to lose?

Although people don't get brought before the church body usually, I know one or two stories from growing up where a family was asked by the elders to not come back after a sexual harassment / assault. Most of the church never knew it happened, but the pastor and deacons were willing to clearly stand up for the wronged party.

It's hard to not feel like you church has failed you and done a tremendous amount of damage by not being there to support you in your marriage. Marriage is one of the hardest things many people do. It requires extreme grace, forgiveness, self evaluation, and Christ like undeserved love at times. That is hard for many people who don't start marriage with all those things in place already. If your church was at least willing to clearly rebuke your husband, it would be w huge deal.

Even my small church I joined less than a year ago, I went to lunch with the pastor and he was extremely supportive and gave a few great pieces of advise. If we were both members years ago, I don't doubt that they would have told us to get in counseling and been supportive in that or telling one of us to step it up and honor the covenant we made.
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 16:57:34 by anx »

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #18 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 21:01:59 »
You sound like a smart woman and are well written.

You are stuck for some very good reasons and not willing to change those also for good reasons.

Your options really seem to be

1 prepare to move out in 5 years and make it until then

2 take the reasons why you are stuck and change them. This absolutely will come with consequences. Some may materialize and some may not. You aren't ready to do this yet it sounds like.

3 receive divine intervention

4 something else totally unforeseen

I would suggest when or if you do move out, try shaking things up enough before you do to see if they will resolve or he will divorce you. I think it would be better if he chose that than you if possible. I would strongly argue towards a new church or have your son continue to go to youth group there and find a new church.

Again, I really think he must have emotional walls as high and deep as possible, and be full if resentment and blames you for his actions. Resentment is a great way to justify treating a spouse like garbage and blaming it on them at the same time. It's also great for being lazy and justifying not having to improve. It is very likely that is one of the main causes of this. You didn't even have to do anything. This is very likely something he had before you and likely never came to you to fix it or explain it either. Resentment is truly cancer to a relationship and there is nothing you can do to fix it that doesn't cause more. It's evil.

Other than that, unless you situation changes somehow drastically, do anything to make these 5 years as good as possible. You may even want to tell your husband the plan. Or move into another room.

I have read many stories where the wife moves out and months later the husband looks inside himself instead of blaming his spouse for everything and wakes up to see what he has done.

You might want to read the book "codependant no more" and see if you see your husband in there. You said you were interested in psychology, so it might be an enjoyable read.

Other than that I wish you the best. It does really sound like you would have made a good man happy. I hope God blesses you till you are overflowing once this resolves one way or the other.

Try to insulate yourself from his garbage if possible and live a life for God. You really are walking through the vally of the shadow of death. Find a ton of uplifting sermons and fill the hole your husband left with God. I'm 5 months into a separation and only find happiness when totally given over to God, in his word (in almost done with a bible read through), and praying hard. It's going to be harder for you because you have to see this man and his garbage all the time and what should have been.

Blessings and prayers

I'll leave you with one final chapter. Read 1 Samuel 25 about David's first wife and the divine intervention she received after years with a bad husband. You might get a laugh. We really have no idea what God will bring next. He will not forget or forsake you. Even if your time on earth ends up being a struggle till you die, eternity in heaven will make it seem like a short inconvenient blip. As though you stubbed your toe one orientation day in heaven and then it was healed a day later when you walked through the gates.
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 21:39:45 by anx »

Offline Supplanter

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
  • Manna: 29
  • Gender: Female
  • JohnDB is an awesome husband.
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #19 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 21:09:33 »
I'm sorry if this comes out harshly. I don't mean it that way but I am going to be blunt about my observations.

You keep saying that you are thinking of the welfare of your son. I'm sorry but you are giving yourself an excuse not to do this very difficult thing that needs to be done. Your child may do well right now by appearances, but by you staying in this toxic relationship with your husband, you are giving him an example that will almost ensure that he ends up in an unhappy marriage and will have the same emotional issues as his father. As is he is learning from the two of you what marriage looks like.

Secondly, you keep saying God hasn't intervened yet you are completely unwilling to move. Yes, you've read books, went to couseling for yourself, talked to deacon's wives, and when none of that worked out, you refused to leave and just trust God and you continue to use every excuse you can to not take any of the extreme action that is necessary. How do you expect God to move when you are choosing to stay in a situation He has called you out of.

Instead of stepping in faith and trusting that God will be faithful to provide, you instead use the excuse that you can't support yourself and then allow your husband to say things like he only wants to stay married so that  it won't be a financial drain on him. So, he has your permission to abuse you because you donkt believe God will take care of you and your son.

Then we have the church. Guess what? It doesn't matter how good you perceive it to be there for your son. Do you really want him to learn that it is ok to put on a mask in church and around other Christians? Both you and your husband have your own facades you are trying to keep up and you just need to get real and find someplace that will respect and support you no matter what. You are allowing your son to be a part of a system that very much seems to be abusing you. However, I put the blame on you because you are allowing it to happen.

Finally, we have all this whining about how you are so good to your husband and he just doesn't respond. Just get angry. Be honest. He has made your life a living hell for 14 years. Stop making him dessert. You wanna show him kindness then you need to get emotionally honest.

You try to get him to respond to your tears. He doesn't care because your tears are self contained. Start impeding upon him.

Smash that tv if that's the problem. Burn all his clothes, tear apart his easy chair.Take away everything he considers good and when he turns from you in the bed, just move over, and if he keeps moving and falls off the bed leave him there every night. Stop crying when you talk. Tell him with uninhibited words that he can work on this marriage or get out. And if he doesn't leave, call the police to escort him out. If you are worried about your son then send him to g-ma's or a friends when you do all this.

But your son needs to know that the way his father is treating his mother is currently unacceptable.

Stop making excuse. Yes it will be humiliating and yes it will turn yours and your son's life upside down for awhile, but in the end doing the right thing will always turn out better.

And when you kick him out, make sure you inform him that you will be milking his greed selfish butt for all the child support and alimony he's worth.

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #20 on: Mon Sep 26, 2011 - 08:25:27 »
I have to agree with you on what you just wrote. A good youth group and friends at that age is profound. A bad experience in high school can follow people all of there lives. Your self esteem, character, habits, beliefs, and temperment are all being formed.

The one thing I would very much like you to do is before you call it completely quits, shake the foundations of this rut as hard as you can. When you have nothing to lose and no reason to stay. Throw all the cards down. Really give him a clear choice. Go before the church and if you get shunned, find a new one. If only for his soul. It would be best if he chose to divorce you. Give him one last chance he doesn't deserve and will most likely but not certainly pass it up. I would very much suggest separating and not divorcing unless someone else comes along. This man living alone for three years with nothing but himself to blame may find God.

Until then, pray hard, trust God that although you have gone through this he has a plan and love you, fill yourself totally with God and sermons and uplifting things every day, minimize your husbands garbage. I've been through 2 years of a rough time, and I have no idea how you have lasted this long with things this bad. You are obviously strong. Find any strength to rise above and fill the hole left with God. Keep fighting resentment. Build as much of a spirit filled life full of fruits of the spirit. Evaluate where you are at and how you can do better.
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 26, 2011 - 10:16:16 by anx »

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #21 on: Tue Sep 27, 2011 - 15:47:40 »
I once read affairs by men are driven by sex and by women for affection and contact. The man tries to continue the affection to get the sex and the woman continues the sex for the affection.

The fact is an affair will only make you feel worse. You will be extremely guilty and have a hidden secret and sin to feel bad about on top of this.

I have put a lot of thought into this because of my own story. In times of trouble God doesn't simply remove our human attributes. If starving, God doesn't make it disappear. If in pain, God doesn't make the pain disappear. In a loveless relationship, God doesn't remove our human will for connection and love.

For me its sex. I'm still separated from my wife, and the apartment below me has extremely loud sex often. Its very hard and sad for me to listen to or try to tune out or put on headphones. God didn't remove my sexual desire for my wife or will be to with her. Without it, I wouldn't be so driven to make this right. I would be far more likely to just walk away.

Your not a heathen for having a strong desire to be loved. You are built that way by God. Its probably best that its there and driving you to make things right. Unfortunately, its making you very sad right now.

The only thing I have found comfort in is God and reading the bible or listening to a sermon. I will read for hours some nights when I'm unable to cope. I feel so much better the next few days. If I miss a few days, I'm a total mess. If I drink or cope with something this side of heaven, I'm a mess.

Quote
This battle and this hurt that I deal with on a perpetual basis has robbed me of my smile, my happiness, and even my Christian joy. I know unsaved people who are much more happier than I am. Now THAT is the most pathetic part of it all. What good am I as a Christian if I can't even show the joy of the Lord in my life?


Towards happiness, I'll point you to a few things things.
1- Job. He definitely wasn't happy about what happened, but remained true to God.
2-  2 Corinthains 6
Quote
4 Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; 5 in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; 6 in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7 in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8 through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; 9 known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; 10 sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.
3 - paul and the other apostles suffered greatly while being great Christians. In human eyes, your situation isn't fair.

We aren't at all promised happiness, and infarct, hardship is often more common. It is VERY hard to have Joy in it. The only way you'll have it is to be 110% right with God, living for God, in his word, filling yourself daily. Strive for that and kick it up a notch if you are falling behind and hurting.

Minimize the things that hurt (facebooking, etc), but there will be hurt. God probably won't take away your desire for a happy marriage and home. Seeing happy couples hurts when your going through hard times. Minimize the hurt. You are built by God with a strong drive towards human love, and thats not a bad thing. Fill the hole and sadness with God. Turn off the TV and read the bible if its making you sad. Excuse yourself from conversations about marriage and find God for a few minutes.

Keep up with the prayer and trying to fix this. I still need to advocate for you to keep pushing to fix this. I think I already suggested the book "codependant no more" for you husband if he would read it. If he would ever agree to it, do counseling with a SKILLED christian counselor.

Prayers and Blessings

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #22 on: Wed Sep 28, 2011 - 13:06:38 »
I think he might be coodependant too, or something else. Something in his head is not right.  Perhaps its as simple as he has given himself over to resentment and emotional walls to protect himself. Codependant behavior can look very different in different people. Either way, I like that you are looking for a healthier mindset for you. :)

I think Codependancy is more common for women. Giving of yourself and sacrificing for your family is how you are built and not a bad thing.

I think the balance is hard for a lot of people. Some people have no issue with it at all. I can't give any advise really because its something I have a very hard time imagining in my own head. I'm just not like that.

I think the best advise I can give is to make sure you are still happy. Give and sacrifice for you son and family, but not until you stop caring and liking yourself.

I can't say how much some of those grace to you sermons have ment to me. They hit me really hard and he talks the same way my brain works. the only reason I can be joyful is focus on God and some or the great advise and truth that I got from those.

Kick up your bible study and sermons until you are filled with God, then work to maintain that joy. Start with a fast that you can do and are comfortable with(even if just from tv or special food or coffee or something simple but meaningful). Get in the bible big time and sermons. Find joy. Then make sure you keep up with enough study and prayer and focus that you remain happy. That may just be 15 minutes a day.

I really think you should do something like no tv or Facebook for a week and study hard.

In my own study I felt like Daniel. Praying hard while in a foreign land under an unhappy banishment from my happy homeland because if mistakes and sins. ( in my story we both messed up) Daniel may not even have been part of the sin leading up to the banishment, bit he certainly was affected by it.

Try to refrain your issue in a better way. Don't focus on how negative it is.

Imagine yourself stuck with a bad roommate and not all the other terrible stuff. Or stuck with a terrible coworker that you need to deal with but not left them infect you with their unhappiness. Focus on making it the best you can. Forget the rejection. The constant garbage he gives. Move to another bedroom if needed.

Offline Supplanter

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
  • Manna: 29
  • Gender: Female
  • JohnDB is an awesome husband.
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #23 on: Wed Sep 28, 2011 - 18:27:30 »
I still think the best thing you can do to care for your son is kick your husband out. Yes, that will mean a change in lifestyle but what is more important? That he get a lifestyle or that he see his mother gain some emotional and spiritual stability. Your son is being affected by your depression even when you hide it from him.

You have a very unhealthy relationship to your finances, making them more important than they should be.

And no, no one thinks you are a heathen. When we don't get our needs met in marriage then any of us would deal with such temptations.

You really need to separate yourself someway from this situation, even just temporarily.

If the man refuses to respond to anything then you continuing to "try" really has no effect. You are chasing your tail.

At least if you are going to stay then fix your codependency on this man and start falling in love with Jesus.  Jesus is your first husband and he is perfect. Why not fully turn your passion to Him and stop pouring out all the good stuff on your husband. Do not cast your pearls before swine. Take focus off thee husband and get your priorities in order with your real Husband, your maker. Allow yourself to feel the ecstasy of true love that can never fail from the one who DOES love you. He can and will meet every need if you let him.

When you can finally see yourself the way God does then you will know how to define who you are and be able to care for others without neglecting yourself.

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #24 on: Wed Sep 28, 2011 - 23:35:55 »
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/christian-marriage-forum/trying-to-get-over-this-once-and-for-all!!!/msg920608/#msg920608

This was a tread a few months ago and what tjw said in the last 2 posts meant a lot to me at the time. In part because 18 years of marriage with virtually no sex would be extremely hard for me and rock my world and faith. I haven't seen too many of his posts in the marriage forum recently but his words still effect me.

I have come to a place where I'm usually pretty happy and the empty feeling is largely gone but sneeks in if I am tired or stressed and will hit hard some times. However, being separated from my wife means I am not constantly reminded of the issues. Also, with your husband right there and constantly spewing venom and garbage, keeping your head above water and seeing joy in the horizon is going to be a big task every single day.

You are simply out of tools and options. All you can do is try hard to focus on God. The only other way to really shake this up would be to move out, which is greatly complicated by the fact you have a son to care for.

I have read a lot of stories on this site and others and your is one of the stickiest. Without your faith, you would probably have cheated already or abandoned your kid and your story would have moved on.

I wish I had more encouragement to give other than to say I can appreciate the challenge you face and I'm not really sure how i would cope for as long as you or tjw and others seeking to honor their marriage vows dealt with issues.

My only real suggestion is to kick up prayer, fasting, bible time and sermons and turn off the tv and any other distractions for a serious chunk of time until you can start to feel joy. Totally minimize contact with your husband and sleep in another room.

Also, its hard to read your lack of contact and support. I still very much wish a new church was an option. My little church had been a huge blessing for me.

Blessings and prayers

Offline TJW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 487
  • Manna: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #25 on: Thu Sep 29, 2011 - 07:31:56 »
Quote
To me, telling me to make Jesus my Husband and focus on Him is like rubbing salt in my wounds because it's just not enough. It's like telling a starving person to just focus on Jesus and they will be fine.

You have two very good analogies here.

I want you to understand something about "codependency".  The term means that 2 people are BOTH dependent, one upon the other.

It is also important to understand that a person does not rid himself of "codependency".  He rids himself of "dependency".

If I rub salt on my arm, there's no pain.......  unless my arm is wounded in the first place.  Right?  Salt rubbed on intact skin doesn't cause pain.

And "just focus on Jesus" is one of those all-familiar "half-truths" which get christians in a lot of trouble and cause them a lot of grief.  These "half-truths" are heard every Sunday (and Saturday) from pulpits, in sancuaries, and fellowship halls.

Actually, Jesus never said to "just focus" on Him.  What He said was, to "seek ye FIRST the kingdom".  The word "first" implies that there is a "second", not that there is "only".  Neither does Jesus say that "you will be fine".  What He says is, that "these things will be added unto you".  That is, the "things" you need.

The key to getting rid of "dependency" is to put FIRST the things you NEED into Jesus' hands.  Make Him FIRST.  Trust that Jesus loves you enough to have told you the truth, when He promised "these things will be added unto you".

Then SECOND, understand that it isn't wrong to seek things we WANT from others, but we must do it in the correct manner.  The way Jesus taught us:

Matthew 7:7 (KJV)

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

He did not say to "barter", or "bargain", or "make deals" with others to get what we want.  "Codependency" results when two people "make a deal", in fact, this "deal" may be the entire basis upon which the relationship started, and continues.  Attraction begins when the two people find a personality trait in the other which naturally inclines him/her to try to "supply" the NEED of the other.

Dependency ends in a person when he/she carefully, by deliberate thought and practice, divides "needs" from "wants", and places the "needs" with Jesus, and the "wants" with other people.  Of course, nothing wrong about giving "wants" to Jesus, so long as we understand that with either Jesus or others, our "wants" may not be granted.

With "dependency" broken, there still may be application of "salt", but since we aren't wounded, there's no pain.






Offline Supplanter

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
  • Manna: 29
  • Gender: Female
  • JohnDB is an awesome husband.
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #26 on: Thu Sep 29, 2011 - 09:15:56 »
At least if you are going to stay then fix your codependency on this man and start falling in love with Jesus.  Jesus is your first husband and he is perfect. Why not fully turn your passion to Him and stop pouring out all the good stuff on your husband. Do not cast your pearls before swine. Take focus off thee husband and get your priorities in order with your real Husband, your maker. Allow yourself to feel the ecstasy of true love that can never fail from the one who DOES love you. He can and will meet every need if you let him.

I'm wondering if this same advice applies to the Christian men who are in bad marriages. After all, as believers we are all the Bride of Christ, so Jesus is the first husband to all of us who believe. Would this same advice apply to men then?

Considering that God is a jealous God and our first love is to be toward Him, and yet He is the one who created the institution of marriage, I believe that God intended our needs to be met through relationships. I doubt that anyone would disagree with that.

To tell someone to focus on Jesus alone as my Husband and that will be enough is just a bewildering to me. My experience is that people who give that advice rarely have to put it into practice themselves. For instance, I have a few Christian acquaintances whose favorite saying is "Jesus is all you need."  Now, all these people are in good marriages, good extended families, work in the ministry so they have a large group of Christian friends and support, they live in new houses and have good jobs. And yet, they will say that Jesus is all you need. I wonder how they know that seeing how they've never had to actually live it out in their lives.

But as for me...well, I have had to live that out in my life for the past 10+ years. I have no family, no local friends, no support, a marriage that is a joke and a husband who doesn't care if I die...literally. I have to get on-line just to have interaction with people. So I do know what it's like to be in a position when all you have is God Himself. And let me tell you, it's not enough. Is God capable of being enough? Absolutely He is, but He didn't make us to be that way. We are created for relationships. He made us passionate, emotional beings with certain needs that he created other humans to fill.

To not have that is a very lonely place, and you can't understand that unless you've lived it...and I have lived it for a long time. So please forgive me if I disagree. To me, telling me to make Jesus my Husband and focus on Him is like rubbing salt in my wounds because it's just not enough. It's like telling a starving person to just focus on Jesus and they will be fine. After all, He is the Bread of Life and the Living Water. No matter how hard that person tried, eventually they would starve to death because God created us to need food and drink.

I appreciate the advice; really, I do. But this is all very frustrating. I can't tell you how many times I have tried to make God my everything and focus on Him. But it just never fills the emptiness.  


Look honey, I have lived it. Not the exact situation, but definitely enough to know that YES Jesus should be your husband (protector, provider, sustainer) first and that applies to men also. he is also their protector, provider, and sustainer. No one else is going to or is responsible for fulfilling your emotional needs. You need to really get into some scripture study. If you get into a right relationship with God then you will be able to manage your relationships with others without perpetuating the role of you as a victim, no matter how you are treated.

Obviously God made us relational beings, but we can't even begin to relate to others appropriately when we don't know how to appropriately relate to Him. You just don't want to do anything about your situation, not spiritually, not practically, nothing. You come on her whining and whinign looking for sympathy and profess that you are desperate for a change because you are so tempted to sin because you are so achingly lonely. You don't suffer anything that is not common to all mankind. Don't you think others know an even deeper loneliness? 

Many have told you several things you can do to change your situation, but the truth is that right now you have chosen to be a victim. You have excuse for everything and I mean everything. And why would suggesting that you fully rely on Jesus to fulfill your needs be rubbing salt in the wound? Seriously? You think others are responsible for meeting your needs? They aren't.

And with that, I'm stepping out of this thread because others have more patience than I do.


Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #27 on: Thu Sep 29, 2011 - 13:30:49 »
Even my Christian counselor has told me that he's dumbfounded as to why I'm going through what I am and for as long, and without any answers from God. I'm not complaining about that, but just stating a fact.

I have to agree. I keep thinking about 1 Samuel 25 when I think of your story. Unfortunately, a day when you do find happiness may be a week or 5 years away. I still have the same suggestions have agree with TJW. It is not a simple thing to put in practice. Finding joy in your situation will be a huge struggle, but when or if you do, it will be great.

Offline Lavender

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
  • Manna: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #28 on: Fri Sep 30, 2011 - 00:31:54 »
Hello, you have mentioned that you have no familly there.  May I ask how far away from you your family is?

Offline Lavender

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
  • Manna: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #29 on: Sat Oct 01, 2011 - 00:05:56 »
Lavender -

As far as relationship, I don't have any family at all that I can count on. I have blood relatives, but none of us are close. In an earlier post, I wrote that - in my family - children were dispensable. We all grew up in very bad surroundings that were very dyscunctional and abusive. When I became an adult, I dealt with all of that and put it behind me thanks to a great counselor and the grace of God. But, like I said, none of us are close and I can't count on anyone for anything, so it's really like having no family at all. You asked about distance, and my closest relative is several hours away.


 

Hello, tallat -   I'm sorry to hear about your family.  Have none of them changed as you have?

Your situation is baffling.  I wonder why your husband married at all feeling the way he does?  He is either mentally ill (only a psychiatrist or psychologist could tell) or he is not heterosexual, or something happened in your marriage, possibly even something he is mistaken about and he just won't confront you with it.  There HAS to be a reason for his behavior. 

Since he won't do anything to help himself nor your marriage you are the only one who can fix your suffering.  I don't know what you expect the Lord to do or tell you, only you know that.  In my opinion you should use the common sense He gave you and change that cruel situation.  You keep saying your son is the reason you stay.  I believe your little boy needs to see his mother happy and smiling and joking and playing with him.  Yes, I know, you probably already do this, but kids are pretty sharp, they sense when their parents are hurting and putting on a front for them and that bothers them even if they don't want to say so.

 I think a change of location would work for the good of all of you.  Kids are pretty resilient when things are changed, especially when they have a good relationship with their parents so I would not be tied up in knots over changing residence.  The first thing I would do is get an attorney, file whatever papers are necessary for what you want to do, and ask the attorney to direct you to the help you need to accomplish the goal of getting a place and a way for your son and you to live.  Believe me, there is a lot of help out there and a different church would probably be good help, too.  Some congregations are just amazingly caring believers.

I have a relative who did this years ago and she says those were among the happiest days of her and her son's life.  She said they didn't live high, but they had such peace and so much fun it was a little heaven on earth to be in their own little place without the abuse.  She said it was as though a big, black cloud had been lifted from over them.  Her son is a grown man now but he still says he's so glad they left the black- cloud situation.  He wasn't as abused as his mother was but it hurt him terribly to know she was hurting all of the time. 

Maybe if you went through with it your husband might be shocked by the reality of it into getting help for himself and your marriage. If not, you could move on with your life and not waste another five years being tormented.  You cannot make another person care and you have already spent many years wishing it would happen and it hasn't.   I pray you will muster the courage to make the change for all your sakes.

Yah bless

Offline TJW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 487
  • Manna: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #30 on: Sun Oct 02, 2011 - 07:16:22 »

Quote
He's really that way with many areas of life in general so it really is no surprise that his sex life would have the same characteristic.

So, the underlying problem is likely physical, and not emotional.  Has he been worked up by an endocrinologist?  If not, would he agree to it?

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #31 on: Mon Oct 03, 2011 - 10:40:32 »
I think TJW is talking about testosterone. There are many stories where a drop in testosterone makes a profound effect on a man like hormonal issues in a woman will throw her for a loop.

My best guess is still emotional walls and some of the traits of codependancy.

The reason I think it is that emotional walls are very common in that mindset. Also, check out the wikipedia page on codependancy. I think your husband lines up with a lot of the things under avoidance patterns. You could tell if anything lines up with denial or low self-esteem. Even if he is not codependant, I think the avoidance part of it describes what I know of your husband well.

I think what might have happened is he married you and then after gaining the prize realized he had to keep you away from who is "really" is and not allow you to hurt him. You would not be the first story I've read were a spouse immediately put up defenses when married so they can't get hurt. These defenses simply destroy the marriage and hurt everyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency
 
I avoid emotional, physical, or sexual intimacy as a means of maintaining distance.
I allow my addictions to people, places, and things to distract me from achieving intimacy in relationships.
I use indirect and evasive communication to avoid conflict or confrontation.
I diminish my capacity to have healthy relationships by declining to use all the tools of recovery.
I suppress my feelings or needs to avoid feeling vulnerable.
I pull people toward me, but when they get close, I push them away.
I refuse to give up my self-will to avoid surrendering to a power that is greater than myself.
I believe displays of emotion are a sign of weakness.
I withhold expressions of appreciation.

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #32 on: Mon Oct 03, 2011 - 17:05:55 »
He at least has felt the holy spirit. There is still hope.

It very likely might take you leaving and tell him to read the same book you are before he contacts you again. Months or years alone can crack his heart. Especially if he were to lose custody of his son at the same time. What you said about the dark raincloud I think is correct. He can blame it all on you especially when you are near. Could your rent a room from someone at church or just anyone? The woman who divorced her husband and was shunned?

You may have to save this man twice. The first one didn't stick. It not any fun from a human perspective to go through 14 years of garbage for his soul, but it is worth it.

 http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/60-31
I listened to this last night and I suggest it to you. Until you find a way out, it is perhaps your best chance, but an unbelievable challenge. I'm not sure what you should do, but give it a listen and see what you think.

I also sent you a pm of a story similar to yours where the husband started treating her like garbage right after the deal was sealed.

Blessings and prayers.

Offline anx

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Manna: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #33 on: Sat Oct 08, 2011 - 15:50:25 »
I would ask him directly. He didn't take it as a serious question it doesn't sound like. Ask him directly to ggo to counseling with you and get an actual yes or no. If he skirts the issue again like that, ask directly for a yes or no.

Start with individual if you want though. Many people do.
« Last Edit: Sat Oct 08, 2011 - 17:42:00 by anx »

Offline laura22

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Living in a loveless, sexless marriage
« Reply #34 on: Mon Oct 17, 2011 - 19:50:16 »
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE POST? ... I CAN'T FIND MY POST EITHER??

 

     
anything