Living in a loveless, sexless marriage

[anx]

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/christian-marriage-forum/marriage-unhappiness/

Were they part of this somehow? When these forum servers get busy it can sometimes take a few tries or a long wait until something actually posts. I usually double check to make sure my stuff actually posts when things are slow.

[DaveW]

I have not waded thru the 4 pages of replies and suggestions. So I am posting blind.

Your husband needs to be brought into account. If he claims to be a christian, he needs to listen to his pastor.

Heb 13. 17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

He is acting like an unbeliever according to what Paul wrote:

1 Tim 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

There is a site (do not know if you have been there or not) www.themarriagebed.com
On their home page there is a button for articles, You need to read and print out 2 for him on "Sexual Stewardship." They are commentary on 1 Cor 7.



BTW, the sexual attitude of Jesus, Paul et al, indeed all Jews from then till now is this:

"Sex is a wife's right and a husbands duty."

In the first century it was written in the marriage contracts how often the husband was to satisfy his wife (NOT the other way around) That got codified in the Mishnah (published circa 200 ad) frequency was based on occupation and if a wife thought she needed more than what was stipulated, she could take her husband to court to force him to change jobs into one that had a higher frequency. 

If he was independantly wealty or had a job that required little physical strain - it was EVERY DAY.

[anx]

When I initially came on this site, I was looking for other people who were in a similar situation. I wanted to get their feedback as to how it affected them and how they managed to deal with the day-to-day. But I've never really received that kind of feedback. Instead, I have gotten many responses telling me what I need to do to 'fix' my husband and my situation.

Day-to-day there isn't much you can do besides manage. Totally turning off all influences that don't lift your spirits, being deeply involved in a great christian fellowship, and a large amount of time reading the bible will help, but your situation will drag you down. It will never be great with your marriage in this spot. I'm in a really good spot in my own story, but I am still lonely, sad at the state of my marriage, and struggling to stay Godly in the face of a desire for physical contact and intimacy. That I don't expect to go away ever.
Proverbs 16:26
The appetite of laborers works for them; their hunger drives them on.

Plainly, in your current situation, there is little you can do. If you are unwilling to change your marriage and don't have an "out",the only things that could help are a HUGE focus on God or finding a new church. Both of those will help, but not fix anything.

I think that many people assume that there is something positive to be rekindled if my husband would get his act together, but that isn't true. Our marriage did not start out good and then slowly turn bad. It has been bad since the honeymoon 14 years ago. By bad, I mean the absence of love, passion, intimacy, etc. As I've written previously, my husband changed the day we got married and - to this day - can't explain why. But I got pregnant right away, and we stayed together to try to do the right thing by our child.

Going before our church would not help our situation. It would only make my husband not want to go back and that would have negative repercussions on my son.

I think God's desire for your marriage is that your husband would repent of his sin and for an actually happy marriage. Divorce is talked about radically in the bible (Mathew 19, 1 corinthians 7). It is VERY different than the worlds view. Despite your entire marriage being poor, you did marry him for a reason. There used to be at least something there despite there not being anything there for many many years.

He definitely isn't interested in changing right now. If you aren't interested in changing it either, there isn't any hope for it. Nothing will change for 5 years till you can move out, but even then you'll potentially struggle and face a chance at homelessness. All you can do is wait, but you've said that door have been shut for you many times.

Without shaking this up (going before church and whatever else), all you can do is remain stuck. You don't KNOW his reaction or that of your church. You can't. Currently, you are making that decision for him without placing it before him. If you want I can find and link you many stories were people "woke up" after many years. SO VERY OFTEN, its when the woman walks out or is ready to. I still think there is a good chance something will happen in him when that happens.

Also, I still think you NEED to change churches, go before the church, or somehow shake things up. Without that all you can do is continue to wait and be very sad.

My only solution is get a divorce. I have accepted that, but every time I try to work it out, something happens and a door is closed. Some people say that I'm just whining, that I'm making excuses and I just want sympathy. I don't believe that is true, I'm just laying out the facts.

You do have other choices. Go to the church with this, change churches and go before that church, shake things up.

It's things like this that throw me into despair and tears. It just seems like I'm moving backwards no matter how hard I try. I want to trust God, but it's getting harder and I just don't understand.

Mathew 18:15-20
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

This is pretty clear and strait from Jesus. Start there. I think it would be wrong to ignore a clear direction from Jesus. I certainly have talked to my pastor about my marriage. I think its pure silliness not to. If you don't think that your pastor will be at all helpful in a matter so clearly connected to faith, why is he still your pastor? If its really SO BAD that your pastor won't support and help your marriage, get into a new church and a new youth group for your son. You aren't doing any favors to anybody by continuing this. Your son being in a good youth group at this point isn't worth your total unhappiness. You may find an even better youth group.

What should have happened YEARS ago is going to your pastor and to the church about this. If your husband is living unrepentant sin, expose it and let God work from there. Hiding it only continues that sin and hurt.

I am not sure you will get an out. Your will to end your marriage and separate may not be something God will ever open a door to you. I think God's will may be for your husband to repent and your marriage to stay intact. I would have a hard time justifying anything else biblically. I think until this is brought before the church and exposed like you should have more than decade ago, you will continue to be stuck. Frankly, from an outside perspective, 50% of the reason you are stuck seems to be from your actions. You are absolutely not powerless in this. You have chosen to take all the tools that you need to fix this and are told to biblically and put them off limits. Follow the command of Jesus to bring this before the church and trust God from there. Go against the command of Jesus and will for a divorce, and you may never receive an out from God.

I would finally suggest to read job 38-42, and all of job is a good read in your situation. We simply cannot question the will of God or think our own plans greater than his. If it is his will for you to be in this marriage, no amount of prayer to the opposite will change that and no prayer for an out will get an answer. If his sovereign plan is to redemption your husband and restore your marriage, submit to that. That may take years and continue to be difficult. Biblically, the path you need to take first to be right with God is clear to me. Talk to your pastor and go before the church. If the church does the right thing and clearly tells your husband that he is in the mist of unrepentant sin, then he can choose to change his ways or be kicked out. If you husband chooses then to leave the faith and separate from you (or demand you leave), then your standing biblically is far different. Put another way, choosing to not go to your church with this and shake this up is choosing to continue in your current path of sadness. Put this before your husband and your church.

[anx]

I would say that although he hasn't honored your marriage, but I'm wouldn't assume if God thinks you divorced.

I have a very hard time reading mathew 19 and 1 corinthains 7 (39 in particular) and come to the conclusion that you are biblically divorced. Your husband has abandoned you emotionally.

You've said before what happened to the other woman in your church. However, be 100% aware that that is blocking you from acting on this. Your recourse SHOULD BE going before the pastor and church. Jesus said it should be. I cannot read your story and the verses and come to another conclusion. You are assuming what is going to happen both from your church and him. Even to the point of moving out he wouldn't care. I know you believe that and have for a long time. At this point how is it any worse to go before the church? What changes?

I really believe you have to change churches and go before that or go before the one you are in.

I think the only door that will open may be after you husband actually makes a choice before the pastor, church, etc one way or the other. If he reconnects and repents and chooses to become a new man, that's great. If he leaves the church and wants to separate, THEN you'll be biblicaly free. You need to force that decision first.

I think that is the choice you have been unwilling to make, and until that happens, your stuck. Give your husband and your church the chance to make their choices.
I cannot feel right in suggesting anything else.

[drspinko]

But I have a child who is an innocent in all this. He is extensively involved in church and especially the youth group. To take a chance on him suffering the repercussions of our actions is a risk that I just cannot take. My child has done nothing wrong and he doesn't deserve that to happen to him.

 My husband agrees with me in that it would end exactly as I predicted. My husband would stop going to church and my son's involvement there would be tarnished forever which is definitely something a young teen does not need at this point in his life.

If this is the case, how is getting a divorce going to be better for your son's reputation and involvement in his youth group than if you confronted the situation as Jesus told you to?

I mean, will your church look more favorably on you getting a sudden divorce than if you had taken this matter to them first? That doesn't make sense. If your primary goal is to keep your son's reputation from being tarnished, than your only choice is to keep doing what you have been doing, and that is "suffering silently".

But that means that you will have to continue to refuse to confront the situation Biblically. Do you realize that you have already passed judgment against your church leaders by deciding what they are going to do before giving them a chance to do the right thing? Maybe they have handled this type of thing poorly in the past, at least from your perspective. Or maybe you have decided that they did because you heard one sad side of the story, without getting all of the facts?

I really don't know and neither do you. All I know is what Jesus told us to do when a brother is sinning against us. And He did not qualify His command by giving us an out if we think our church leaders won't do the right thing. He also didn't guarantee that they would. He just told us to do it.

And since He loves us more than anyone else, doesn't it make sense to just do what He says in these hard situations instead of trying to do it our way?

[drspinko]

I think one of the obstacles you have in taking this matter to your church leaders is that you have no faith in them to make this matter right. You have seen what they did in the past and you think you know what they will do in your situation. You may be right, you may be wrong. But...it doesn't really matter!

What if you simply did it out of obedience to Jesus? In doing so you would be saying, "Lord, You see my desperation and pain. I see no way to fix it. I do not trust my church leaders to help me. But I do trust in You! Therefore I will follow your command to take my husband's sin to them. They may not help me at all. They may even turn against me. But I will trust in You to somehow save me out of this mess!"

So what you would be doing is putting your faith in God to help you by obeying His word no matter what, even if it might cost you or your son your reputation in the eyes of your church. Since God loves us and knows what's best for us, that is a much better option than trusting in your own plans isn't it? And then you never know what He will do. He may part the Red Sea, or He may lead you into the wilderness. You never know. But the outcome of it, if you put your trust in Him by your actions, is that you (and your son) will be richly rewarded by God in the long run!

But if you insist on doing things your way, you are opening yourself, and your son, to a lot of unintended consequences in the future that you have no way of seeing now.

[tallat]

A few days ago, I deleted all my posts from this thread except for the first one which I just reworded. I had no intention of writing on here again, but finally just couldn't stand it, so I had to respond to some of the final posts that were written on here. I'm not going to quote them, but they are the previous posts prior to this one.

I have given a lot of thought to the Matthew 18 passage and the whole concept of church discipline. I have also talked to several people over the past few days. These people are those who are from my church, and also people who I know are living the type of marriage that I am in. Of everyone I've talked to, the input is the same....it would do no good to go before the church with this issue. It would only result in humiliation initially, and the long-term fallout would be devastating.

This has nothing to do with faith in God or doubting God's Word. It has everything to do with the elements that create a loveless, sexless marriage.

In one of my previous posts, I wrote that my husband is living in unrepentant sin. Now, I am not so sure those words are accurate. Granted, to deny one's spouse sexually is sin. However, in my husband's case, he is not doing it intentionally and with the desire to hurt me. He is doing it because he is not able to give of himself in a way that is intimate or emotional. Also, he doesn't love me and therefore doesn't want me. That is a painful fact, but it's reality.

To go before the church would not fix this. My husband can't be forced to love me. And even if he agreed to finally have obligational sex, who wants that? Certainly not me. Sex without the true emotional connection is meaningless to me.

My husband has deep-seeded emotional issues that he can't fix and doesn't want to get help with. Church discipline isn't going to fix that. No amount of accountability is going to force my husband to love me, or to make him want to get psychological help. Only my husband can do that for himself.

Right now, my husband goes to church weekly and is at least being fed in the form of a biblical sermon each week. My son is thriving in the youth group and is growing spiritually and as a leader. As I've mentioned before, to bring this issue before the pastoral staff would not only be pointless, but it would also do irreversible damage to both my husband and my son.

There is nothing about this that calls for church discipline. It isn't like my husband fell into an affair, or pornography, or drinking, or drugs, or something of that nature. These types of things can be helped with intervention and accountability. But my husband's issues - which result in his actions - need professional help in the form of a counselor. Until he chooses to get that help, nothing else is going to change where his actions, or lack thereof, are concerned.

[tallat]

I recently found out that my job will go full-time around the first of the year. It's been a long time coming, but there's light at the end of the tunnel...finally.

[tallat]

A few nights ago, my son asked me if he could ask me a question and if I would be honest with him. Of course, I said yes. He then asked me if it wasn't for him, if his dad and I would be divorced by now.

My spouse and I have never argued or degraded each other in our entire marriage. So my son isn't asking this because he hears threats, or hurtful comments, or anything negative like that.

No, he's asking because he's getting older and is realizing that his parents aren't normal and the usual positive elements of a healthy relationship are not there. He sees that we're sad and unhappy even though we don't talk about it.

To know that my son is having these types of thoughts and is now beginning to piece together the big picture....the one that we've tried so hard to hide....is just heartbreaking to me.

[anx]

I really do hope something good comes out of your story. Everyone is sad and things aren't working right. Long term stuck in a rut / sin / unhealthy emotional issues are so hard to read and I'm sure terrible to live through.

Keep trying to do what's right for the sake of it being right. At least you guys have a stable life without argueing for your son to grow up in despite any other issue. And a church to at least call home and your son to grow up in despite any other issues with it. He didn't ask for any issues and i commend you for looking out for him.

Blessings

[kmomma0822]

I am going through a tough marriage also.  You can see my post.  I told someone else about this book because it helped me see things a different way and has helped me even though I'm still in the situation.  You need to read "Divorce: God's Will" by Stephen Gola.  It's based on scripture and he really puts things into perspective.  Hopefully it will help you through this path too.  He has a website www.DivorceHope.com.  The pain that I'm going through is deeper than any physical abuse.  I pray that things will work out for you which ever way you go.  Seek God and he will be there with you.

[Thankfulldad]

I am going through a tough marriage also.  You can see my post.  I told someone else about this book because it helped me see things a different way and has helped me even though I'm still in the situation.  You need to read "Divorce: God's Will" by Stephen Gola.  It's based on scripture and he really puts things into perspective.  Hopefully it will help you through this path too.  He has a website www.DivorceHope.com.  The pain that I'm going through is deeper than any physical abuse.  I pray that things will work out for you which ever way you go.  Seek God and he will be there with you.

In 1981 as I was in the parking lot where I worked one morning spending time with the Lord in my car, I asked the Lord if He wanted me to go to Bible School. I heard the word of the Lord come to me saying, “I do not want you to go to Bible School. Read everything that I have taught my people and I will teach you.

[kmomma0822]

First of all, don't judge anything until you read it first. 2nd, I don't believe everything I read.  I study the bible as I read.  I was very skeptical of this book.  If fact, I felt that God told me to get this book a year ago, and I delayed it because I was skeptical.  However the book remained in the back of my thoughts.  I did some research on the author then decided I would read it.  I was very skeptical as I read, but the more I read, the more I was in agreeance with alot of what he said.  I've also been doing a lot of other bible studies on the side and everything was fitting together.  As I read this book I would study the sections in the bible he would refer to (KJV). I was amazed and his interputations. I even studied the same vrs in different bible versions (NKJV, NIV, ESC) It made a lot of sense.  He isn't saying it's God's will, but he is showing that God sees the individuals soul as more important than the marriage itself.  If it is going to affect the persons faith, God wants that person to stay faithful and strong in God.  He doesn't want you to be with someone who will turn you against him.  Even God himself commanded divorce (book of Ezra), and he also divorced Israel.  The Author is saying you need to do everything you can to save your marriage but if it doesn't work, God is forgiving and just, and it's not always considered adultery.  God wants us to stay faithful and seek him. It took this author several years to write this book.  He's never been divorced and is a religous teacher.  Everyone has their own perspective on the bible. 

[Thankfulldad]

First of all, don't judge anything until you read it first. 2nd, I don't believe everything I read.  I study the bible as I read.  I was very skeptical of this book.  If fact, I felt that God told me to get this book a year ago, and I delayed it because I was skeptical.  However the book remained in the back of my thoughts.  I did some research on the author then decided I would read it.  I was very skeptical as I read, but the more I read, the more I was in agreeance with alot of what he said.  I've also been doing a lot of other bible studies on the side and everything was fitting together.  As I read this book I would study the sections in the bible he would refer to (KJV). I was amazed and his interputations. I even studied the same vrs in different bible versions (NKJV, NIV, ESC) It made a lot of sense.  He isn't saying it's God's will, but he is showing that God sees the individuals soul as more important than the marriage itself.  If it is going to affect the persons faith, God wants that person to stay faithful and strong in God.  He doesn't want you to be with someone who will turn you against him.  Even God himself commanded divorce (book of Ezra), and he also divorced Israel.  The Author is saying you need to do everything you can to save your marriage but if it doesn't work, God is forgiving and just, and it's not always considered adultery.  God wants us to stay faithful and seek him. It took this author several years to write this book.  He's never been divorced and is a religous teacher.  Everyone has their own perspective on the bible. 

Sounds like you have done your homework; for that you will be blessed...

[Lavender]

First of all, don't judge anything until you read it first. 2nd, I don't believe everything I read.  I study the bible as I read.  I was very skeptical of this book.  If fact, I felt that God told me to get this book a year ago, and I delayed it because I was skeptical.  However the book remained in the back of my thoughts.  I did some research on the author then decided I would read it.  I was very skeptical as I read, but the more I read, the more I was in agreeance with alot of what he said.  I've also been doing a lot of other bible studies on the side and everything was fitting together.  As I read this book I would study the sections in the bible he would refer to (KJV). I was amazed and his interputations. I even studied the same vrs in different bible versions (NKJV, NIV, ESC) It made a lot of sense.  He isn't saying it's God's will, but he is showing that God sees the individuals soul as more important than the marriage itself.  If it is going to affect the persons faith, God wants that person to stay faithful and strong in God.  He doesn't want you to be with someone who will turn you against him.  Even God himself commanded divorce (book of Ezra), and he also divorced Israel.  The Author is saying you need to do everything you can to save your marriage but if it doesn't work, God is forgiving and just, and it's not always considered adultery.  God wants us to stay faithful and seek him. It took this author several years to write this book.  He's never been divorced and is a religous teacher.  Everyone has their own perspective on the bible. 

kmomma,  that was just great.  Thank you saying it so well.   

[tallat]

  The pain that I'm going through is deeper than any physical abuse. 

I know exactly what you mean by those words, and it makes me sad.

It's kind of ironic, really. If you walked around with black eyes and body bruises, people would rush to your side to ask what happened. No one would tell you to keep putting yourself in a situation where you're going to be beaten repeatedly by your spouse.

But when the wounds are emotional, and people can't see the damage, well it's just a different story.

[TJW]

No one would tell you to keep putting yourself in a situation where you're going to be beaten repeatedly by your spouse.
But when the wounds are emotional, and people can't see the damage, well it's just a different story.

When I was having sexual problems in my first marriage, I would have far rather my wife hit me, burned me, or abused me physically, instead of her ridicule of my anatomy, her constant derision of my sexual abilities, etc.  I would have healed much
easier from physical abuse than this.

And, the thing which constantly came to my mind, during this period, is exactly what you said. 

[tallat]

I love the Christmas season and all its festivities. However, I have to admit that seeing all he lovey-dovey commercials and movies are emotionally difficult. Last night, I watched a movie and there was a line in it that went something like "if you have someone who loves you, then that makes life worthwhile" and, of course, the movie was referring to the person's spouse. After I heard that, I just started bawling like a baby because it's so hard to not know what it's like to have a spouse who loves you.

If you're in a marriage where your spouse is your roommate, then you can probably understand.

[tallat]

Today, I read an article from a hospice nurse who wrote about the top five things that people regret on their deathbed. I had to face the reality that - if I stay in this marriage - I'm going to have four of those same regrets.

Sometimes, as a mother and as a Christian, I wonder when it is finally okay to take care of yourself instead of laying your life on the altar of everyone else's best interest. And why do I feel guilty at the thought of putting my own needs first for a change? Is this social guilt? Or is it just that female nurturing instinct in me? Or is it just dysfunctional? I wish I knew for sure.

All I know is that - should I be diagnosed with a terminal illness and only have a few months to live - I would look back at my life and have much sadness and regret. These feelings would stem from staying in this marriage for so long instead of stepping out and actually taking a chance of finding love with someone and the happiness that can come from having someone to share your life with.

I'm really thinking that I need to remedy this while I still can and am leaning toward a divorce in 2012.

[anx]

I really hope something positive happens in your story.

I still wish your relationship with your husband could be built/rebuilt, but in your situation, I certainly can't blame or judge you for wanting or going through with a divorce.

Its just very sad even from a forum post that your husband would act like this and you are both so firmly in this rut that makes you both so unhappy for so long.

Unfortunately for regret, often this life isn't fair and we christians at least have something to look forward to after death even if life through us lemons. In a secular world view, a traumatic injury or regret means much more.

I wish I had some advise on the feeling of guilt. I think its there in part because you view this as selfish / "putting your own needs first". I think anyone in your situation would struggle with an emotional storm.

Blessings

[Qadosh2Him]

hi,
Your thread immediately drew me, because this describes my marriage exactly.  My daughter insists that we do have some love for each other because we wouldn't have gone through so much garbage together if we didn't.  I posted in another thread on here about how I've been "celibate" for over three years (more like 4 now) because my husband wants nothing to do with me.  We've been married for 22 years...and  I struggle with  immense and serious medical problems.  I think my husband feels too guilty to abandon me, because he knows what would happen without his insurance and I don't leave because of that, and because 22 years seems to be just to much to walk away from.  We do have this level of "commitment" with each other - at least enough to have kept us together, although I believe that if I said I was willing to divorce, at this point, my husband would be relieved.

He works all the time, so he can pay bills, and so he can stay out of the house, and so he has money to buy things he wants with the overtime...because that is his only reason for existing.  He is not a believer--and I've prayed for him for all these years, despite the fact that it looks like a rapidly diminishing hope.  But if I see him for five minutes in a day; it's a long time.

My daughter is now almost 20 and she has just in the past 6 months, found a wonderful man with whom she is in a relationship...although not married (she also is not a believer).  She is amazed daily at how wonderful a relationsihp with the right person can really be...she's been through numerous destructive, harmful relationships up til she met her current boyfriend. (Thankfully, they are planning on getting married once they get settled a little more...he is 32, so much more settled in life than she).  She's never seen a healthy relationship so having found a man capable of giving her one is a marvelous thing, both to her and for me to watch.

she has struggled her whole life with her relationship to her father.  It's definitely a conflicted one...He has tried to win her friendship and love from the moment she was born and she has tried to be independent from him for a long time...not liking the degree to which he has needed her.  Her father has a violent temper which led both of us (my daughter and I ) to leave him twice and get orders of protection.  But because he does suffer badly from OCD, I know that he cannot help a lot of the way he acts, and came back both times.  He has never been assaultive toward either of us...just screams and curses and punches walls, or throws things a lot. Although I will say that after the second time we left (we were gone for a month), he really did make serious effort in controlling himself and although his moods have not improved, he does control his expression of them more. 

But at the first opportunity (the first time she was I think 16 or 17), my daughter left home to be away from him. (She and I have always been very very  close and she had urged me many many times in past years to leave him.)   She did return after each time she was away, after a few months, having run out of money, or gotten into trouble with bad relationships while away.  Since she has settled down with this current man, she has totally changed...it is a wonderful change to see.  She used to cut herself and was using drugs  with increasing frequency and her man now, got her away from all of that and she no longer desires them at all...She is relaxed, happy, and wishes everyone could be as happy as she is now.  Although I do not approve of them living together, given the options, it was overall the best thing.  She is not a believer and  I cannot judge her by my standards...So I have accepted it and look forward to the day they get married.


For myself, I have tried to lean on church friends for emotional fulfillment and comfort since I get none of that from my husband. It is a sad, lonely existence.  I hate going to church and church functions alone.  But it has always been this way.  I really should be used to it by now.

[Qadosh2Him]

Tallat,
was just reading through this long thread...I was really struck by some of the profoundly insensitive comments here.
I have stayed with my husband because I made a vow before God for all these years and because I fully expected him to come know the Lord and  for our marriage to be healed in answer to my numerous hours spent in prayer for this, (and while I still believe he may, it may be after I'm gone from this earth..I still pray for that)....And while in later years I've begun to see that since my husband has broken those vows many years ago by withdrawing and withholding love for me and therefore, I am released from those vows, as Paul says occurs when a husband dies...and as 1 Peter 3 also reiterates...However I'm too ill physically to go through a divorce, and can't see that it would really improve my situation at all to be sick and alone rather than sick and in a marriage, alone.  But I can say that were things a little different in my life, I would absolutely not feel badly about leaving at this point.

And  I want to comment on your remark about how hard the holidays are. You are right.   I have shed many tears standing in the card aisles of stores searching for a card that wasn't just absurd when paired with our marriage.  I've ended up no longer buying "husband " cards and just buy a generic "have a happy birthday" card etc.  It is just too painful to read through every romantic card and have to put them back on the shelf.

And I no longer watch TV because to see a romance or a romantic commercial tears my heart out. I fully identify with this pain.  My heart goes out to you.  There are many hidden, unvoiced pains such as ours in many  churches.  The spiritually single woman and those who  endure loveless marriages are not rare to find.  And the church needs to stop preaching at and "admonishing" them and to start loving on them, to hear their pain, and to admire their commitment...

[tallat]

Tallat,
was just reading through this long thread...I was really struck by some of the profoundly insensitive comments here.
I have stayed with my husband because I made a vow before God for all these years and because I fully expected him to come know the Lord and  for our marriage to be healed in answer to my numerous hours spent in prayer for this, (and while I still believe he may, it may be after I'm gone from this earth..I still pray for that)....And while in later years I've begun to see that since my husband has broken those vows many years ago by withdrawing and withholding love for me and therefore, I am released from those vows, as Paul says occurs when a husband dies...and as 1 Peter 3 also reiterates...However I'm too ill physically to go through a divorce, and can't see that it would really improve my situation at all to be sick and alone rather than sick and in a marriage, alone.  But I can say that were things a little different in my life, I would absolutely not feel badly about leaving at this point.

And  I want to comment on your remark about how hard the holidays are. You are right.   I have shed many tears standing in the card aisles of stores searching for a card that wasn't just absurd when paired with our marriage.  I've ended up no longer buying "husband " cards and just buy a generic "have a happy birthday" card etc.  It is just too painful to read through every romantic card and have to put them back on the shelf.

And I no longer watch TV because to see a romance or a romantic commercial tears my heart out. I fully identify with this pain.  My heart goes out to you.  There are many hidden, unvoiced pains such as ours in many  churches.  The spiritually single woman and those who  endure loveless marriages are not rare to find.  And the church needs to stop preaching at and "admonishing" them and to start loving on them, to hear their pain, and to admire their commitment...

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm very sorry for the pain that you have suffered over the years. As you know, I am all too familiar with what that's like.

Like you, I have also been surprised by how insensitive some people can be. But my experience has been that most people
do mean well and don't mean to be insensitive or hurtful. The problem is that most people just can't relate if they haven't actually lived it out. Everyone goes through some sort of hardship and pain throughout their lives. The difference is that most painful experiences are survived because they are not the day-to-day norm. Once the hardship has passed, life resumes and things are good again. But a marriage that brings nothing but pain, loneliness and emptiness every day is just too hard to comprehend if you've never done it. You try to get through each day, only to know that you have to live it all over again tomorrow. And you try to forgive, only to know that you have to forgive again tomorrow.

When the person who is supposed to love you and be your best friend on this earth, not only doesn't or isn't, but also hurts you daily instead, it makes for a very hard life. I wrote in an earlier post (that I probably deleted) that it's like being in prison every day and your captor begins each day with beating you. Every day, you know that you have to look forward to being beaten again and again, day after day. And yet, when you are allowed to be around other people, you have to hide your wounds and not say anything. And if you do, you're told to give it to God, and forgive your captor. And you try, you really do, but the years just wear you down.

You wrote about the church and how churches should recognize this more. All I could think was AMEN! to that. I attend a large church that would be considered fundamental as far as doctrine. But they are clueless in this area. Years ago, I tried to reach out to about a dozen women over time, just trying to get some advice and encouragement. Without exception, I was shunned by each of them once they found out what my homelife was really like. Also, a close friend of mine went through a similar marriage. She is now divorced, but - before that - she went to several pastors for help. She was judged, reprimanded, criticized for 'talking bad about her husband'. No one ever approached her husband, but she was totally kicked in the gut when she was down.

I've had many people on here tell me that I should go to my church staff with my marital situation, and they just don't get it. Like my friend, I know it would get me nowhere and would only make my marriage worse and ultimately hurt my child who is very involved in the youth group there.

My point is that you are right about the churches. They can accept adultery, or porn addiction, or something like that. But they are not ready to talk about a sexless marriage where it's the man who wants nothing to do with the woman. It's a social mindset that exists....all men want it and - if there's no intimacy - it's the fault of the woman's. And for a woman, that is the ultimate rejection and it hurts to your very soul. To be married to a man - as you know - who has no desire for you, just destroys your self-confidence and brings much hurt.

Regarding your card comment....I can totally relate and agree. I've often joked that I wish they made Valentine's Day cards that read "To the father of my child and financial provider".  We quit doing cards years ago because it's just a joke. One year, my husband gave me a card and my son (who was around 7 or 8) read it and said "That's not much; that could have been given to me."  Go figure! Kids aren't dumb. Even my son sensed that the card was not meaningful from my husband.

Again, thank you for sharing. I really do appreciate it.  

[anx]

You wrote about the church and how churches should recognize this more. All I could think was AMEN! to that. I attend a large church that would be considered fundamental as far as doctrine. But they are clueless in this area. Years ago, I tried to reach out to about a dozen women over time, just trying to get some advice and encouragement. Without exception, I was shunned by each of them once they found out what my homelife was really like. Also, a close friend of mine went through a similar marriage. She is now divorced, but - before that - she went to several pastors for help. She was judged, reprimanded, criticized for 'talking bad about her husband'. No one ever approached her husband, but she was totally kicked in the gut when she was down.

I've had many people on here tell me that I should go to my church staff with my marital situation, and they just don't get it. Like my friend, I know it would get me nowhere and would only make my marriage worse and ultimately hurt my child who is very involved in the youth group there.

My point is that you are right about the churches. They can accept adultery, or porn addiction, or something like that. But they are not ready to talk about a sexless marriage where it's the man who wants nothing to do with the woman. It's a social mindset that exists....all men want it and - if there's no intimacy - it's the fault of the woman's. And for a woman, that is the ultimate rejection and it hurts to your very soul. To be married to a man - as you know - who has no desire for you, just destroys your self-confidence and brings much hurt.

This isn't something universal in churches. The church I grew up in has a big focus on marriages. There is a marriage mentorship program for hurting marriages and they strongly advise counseling. The associate pastor said during a marriage sermon series that he attended marriage counseling with his wife after 9 years of marriage.

Every church I have been to is strongly pro marriage and wouldn't accept adultery, porn, or anything like that. They absolutely would not put a lack of intimacy on a woman. The christian counseling I'm in and talks with pastors have absolutely not been one sided and continually challenge us both.

Your church has very much failed you, but that is not the norm at least as far as my experience.

I personally have met with my pastor several times about my marriage and he very much wanted to me to continue to work very hard to make it great. There is a post on here recently were a pastor is pushing for an intervention with a disconnected spouse not too much unlike your husband.

[tallat]

ANX ~

You are correct....and I apologize. The post that I just wrote was written from my own personal experience within my own church. But I wrote it with blanket statements that included churches in general.

I didn't really mean to do that as I have no idea how other churches operate. I just wasn't specific enough in my writing.

The staff of my church just tends to shy away from situations that they can't relate to. Considering they were all raised in Christian homes, went to Christian schools and then Christian colleges, and now work for churches, they are pretty naive to what many people go through. A sexless marriage is one of those areas that they have no comprehension of, and especially if it's on the part of the husband.

I know it isn't right; I know that they are very lacking in this area, but it's reality.

[anx]

For me, your church is the most frustrating part of your story.

Walk into any church and you will find broken people or broken marriages in need of help. Often, it's beyond the knowledge of the person broken how to fix it. That's where the church acts practically in our lives on this side of heaven. Support, love, counseling, or challenging and confronting sinful, abusive, or immoral behavior.

Talking in my own church a few people know I'm separated, but I'm sure a much larger portion realizes a guy with a wedding ring comes ever week alone. It's embarrassing for me, but I have gotten nothing but love and acceptance from them. I've been asked more than a few times where my wife is. But I have gotten great advise from other Godly people and a pastor who had serious marriage issues.

It's so frustrating to read how your church shuns you or this past woman for this issue.

People are broken and hence marriages will have issues. Unless there was no sin, two people in a relationship for the rest of their lives will have a chance at totally failing at keeping it together. Your Church not being there for you makes me so mad to read.

Even if they can't help in fixing the past and current issues, they could be a strong support and friend. Build you up and give you a place to be open and honest and feel loved in return.

I again appoud you for maintaining faith and still being a good person through all of this. Dealing with the emotional storm on your heart of this long is impressive. Many would have fallen away. I really wish the best for you. I wish there was clear advise we could give you to greatly improve your situation.

[DaveW]

I think many congregations are much better at handling marital problems now than they were 50 years ago. Some are still stuck in the dark ages of early 20th century Victorianism.

I knew a pastor who was an assistant pastor in a Baptist megachurch in FL back in the 1970s. The senior pastor asked him if he was ready for a promotion and the guy said his marriage was in trouble.  So the senior pastor told him he had 1 year to fix it.  Not another word or question until the 1 year was up.  As things had not fixed themselves, he was fired. His marriage ended soon after.

My had a similar story with his first marriage.  He was an asst. pastor in the Wesleyan denomination when his wife got pregnant from an affair. He was immediately removed from his post and condemned by the district and the congregations elders.

With the first guy, he is now remarried and pastoring in the Presbyterian USA denomination. My dad never went back to attend any church consistently. He is now retired and in a nursing home. Occasionally his sons from the 3rd marriage take him to their local CoC.

In neither case did ANYONE in leadership at either the local level or the denomination level lift a finger to help these broken marriages. To me that borders on criminal negligence.

[gracey71]

Hi Tallat. There are a couple of things I want to address. First, the issue with your son seeing what is going on in your marriage. Kids are very perceptive. We may think they don't know something is up, when in reality they are in as much turmoil as we are. I was one of those kids. My parents got married because my mom got pregnant and that is what you did in those days. However, both of them were also alcoholics. Almost every day there would be a screaming match. They would yell, curse, call each other things I cannot say here. This went on for years and years. I would lie in my bed at night and beg God to make them get divorced. It affected me in ways you can't imagine. I ended up becoming a people pleaser, codependant and an alcoholic myself. I have been in recovery 11 yrs and still have to work on these issues. If you think your are doing right by your son by staying you are not. It took me years to get over the resentment I had against my mom for keeping us in that situation.

Second, two years ago my husband and I were having issues. I was contemplating a separation, however was praying fellowshipping and believing God for a miracle. Til one day he came home and told me he was leaving. He had started drinking again, smoking pot and was having an affair with a woman he worked with. I wasn't working at the time and I was terrified about how I was going to pay my bills and keep my house. Every single time I needed something, God came through. (And if you don't think people in your current church would help you, you need a new church). Long story short, he is back home, but, there were conditions, we get counseling, no drinking or drugs, cut off all contact with the woman. As a blessing in disguise, he lost his job back in May, and I believe that was God intervening. Its been a rough road, but we are still together. My problem was I didn't respect myself enough and was always told you shouldn't have expectations of others. I totally disagreed with that, I absolutely should have them when it comes to my marriage. I am finally learning that it is perfectly okay to take care of myself.

Please, find people who will stand beside you and your son. Becasue at the end of your life, if you keep going on the road you are on, you will have huge regrets.

[tallat]

Gracey71~

One of my biggest concerns is the affect that my marriage is having on my son. It bothers me immensely that he is growing up as our marriage for an example to model when he's an adult.

Having said that, my son is very bright and very mature. He does see things and he knows what's going on. He also knows that what we have is not normal. He and I talk every night and discuss some of these very things. I have taught him that what he sees in our marriage is not normal. I've also raised him to be very affectionate and I've taught him how a woman should be treated. For instance, he knows that a woman wants to be held if she's crying. So, even though he's never seen his dad do that for me, he knows that is what you do. I've taught him that the three things a woman (wife) wants to hears are : I love you, I need you and you're pretty.

My point is that he's not as scarred as some children might be. Honestly, if I had it to do over, I would have divorced years ago when my son was little. But now, he's just a few years away from being an adult and whatever damage there was to be done, is done.

I will add that our household is not an unhappy one for my son. There is no fighting or arguing; no degrading, or swearing, or raised voices, or hitting walls etc. My son is actually very happy and a well-rounded, gifted child. He excels in every area and is a leader in his youth group. If this was not the case, I would have removed him from this situation years ago.

Not that I don't wish it was - or is - different. It breaks my heart that my son has grown up in the unloving, unhappy home that he has (meaning between his parents). He has thrived so much already that I can't help but wonder how much better he could have been had he had parents that were normal and loving with each other. But he hasn't, and I've tried to do the best I can with what I've had to work with. Thankfully, I believe that God has blessed our son in spite of us and I'm very grateful to God for that.

[Vianca2]

Originally, when I first created this thread, it was with the sole purpose of trying to find others who were in a similar experience as myself. I know that there are many people out there, but it seems like it's hard to talk about...especially if you're a Christian.

A few weeks ago, I deleted almost all of my posts from here. I did this mainly because I was so tired of people trying to 'fix' my situation and my spouse. I didn't come on here for that. I came on here to hear from other people who are living in a loveless, sexless marriage. I want to know if you struggle emotionally and spiritually like I do. Or what are the ways that you have learned to cope? If you ended up divorced, are you glad, or do you have regrets now that you look back? How do you think the children are affected...not just by divorce, but also by seeing parents in a poor model of a marriage when there's no love or affection?

So, if you're reading this, and you're living in the same type of marriage that I am, please take a moment to post on here about your experience and how you deal, or have dealt, with it. It helps to know that you're not alone and that there are other people who are going through the same pain and frustration.

There was a time when I was in a very similar situation.  My life was empty and full of questions.  Sometimes I would blame my self for what was going on.  Some times and even thought that I deserved it.  I had tunnel vision.  I was full preconceived ideas.  My life was sad.  I started to eat to much and didn't dress very well, my self steem was hitting rock bottom.  This made my x husband even angrier and it became vicious circle.  We went to counseling and it didn't work for many reasons.  But I stuck it out mainly because of my daughter.   But I finally decided that this was enough.  I had a friend (now my husband) that open my eyes and gave me self worth.  I am much happier now.  Do I have regrets about all this?   Of course I do sometimes.   But life goes on.   My problems are not over because now that that marriage is broken my x behaves like a monster.  He doesn't even let me go in to my own house.  He also talks like he was the victim and he didn't do nothing wrong.  There was a time that many people from my church actually believed him, but that is starting to change.  The truth is coming out.   

[tallat]

Originally, when I first created this thread, it was with the sole purpose of trying to find others who were in a similar experience as myself. I know that there are many people out there, but it seems like it's hard to talk about...especially if you're a Christian.

A few weeks ago, I deleted almost all of my posts from here. I did this mainly because I was so tired of people trying to 'fix' my situation and my spouse. I didn't come on here for that. I came on here to hear from other people who are living in a loveless, sexless marriage. I want to know if you struggle emotionally and spiritually like I do. Or what are the ways that you have learned to cope? If you ended up divorced, are you glad, or do you have regrets now that you look back? How do you think the children are affected...not just by divorce, but also by seeing parents in a poor model of a marriage when there's no love or affection?

So, if you're reading this, and you're living in the same type of marriage that I am, please take a moment to post on here about your experience and how you deal, or have dealt, with it. It helps to know that you're not alone and that there are other people who are going through the same pain and frustration.

There was a time when I was in a very similar situation.  My life was empty and full of questions.  Sometimes I would blame my self for what was going on.  Some times and even thought that I deserved it.  I had tunnel vision.  I was full preconceived ideas.  My life was sad.  I started to eat to much and didn't dress very well, my self steem was hitting rock bottom.  This made my x husband even angrier and it became vicious circle.  We went to counseling and it didn't work for many reasons.  But I stuck it out mainly because of my daughter.   But I finally decided that this was enough.  I had a friend (now my husband) that open my eyes and gave me self worth.  I am much happier now.  Do I have regrets about all this?   Of course I do sometimes.   But life goes on.   My problems are not over because now that that marriage is broken my x behaves like a monster.  He doesn't even let me go in to my own house.  He also talks like he was the victim and he didn't do nothing wrong.  There was a time that many people from my church actually believed him, but that is starting to change.  The truth is coming out.   

I can relate to almost all of what you wrote. There was a time when I dressed really nice and cared about my appearance, but that has long since left me. Because I work with the public, I do put on makeup and do my hair, etc. so I look nice, but I can't remember the last time I cared to go shopping or buy anything new. I also struggle with overeating as food seems to be the only tangible friend I have these days that I can depend on for some sort of 'comfort'. Keeping my weight under control is a battle, but I manage. Unlike your X, my husband doesn't get angry and couldn't care less what I look like...be it good or bad. I know that any positive changes I make have to be for me and me alone, but it's hard to find the strength to do that when you're sad and depressed all the time.

Like you did, I stay for my son. It's been years now, and I am finally reaching my breaking point. My job is going full-time in January, and I had finally decided that I was going to leave as soon as I could find an efficiency apartment. Although I was very scared and heartbroken, I knew that is what I had to do for my own well-being and sanity. Unfortunately, I found out last week that my 'full-time' job will only be 32 hours a week and not 40 like I had assumed it would be. This leaves me back at square one as it's not enough money. But I have decided that I'm still going to look for another job with more hours so I can leave. I'm determined that 2012 is going to end better than 2011 did. I'm tired of living like this and I'm tired of crying and hurting all the time. I want to find my smile again and wake up each day with something to look forward to.

[tallat]

Well, another New Year's Eve gone by without a kiss or even a hug at midnight. I know I should be used to it by now, but it still hurts and causes me to long for so much more in a relationship....just saying.

[kcalhoun529]

I kind of feel where you're coming from....only I've been married a little less than two years.
My husband chooses to petty much act like I'm not here unless it's on his clock, his desire, his drive (which ic hardly ever). My requests -- he rolls his eyes. I kind of know where you're coming from...it's like your heart is just being tossed in his hands playfully...and he gets mad when you address it, or ask him to stop, or you get told "you're too emotional" or it's somehow your fault. Ugh, all too familiar.

Truth be told, I'm learning how to cope with it....and it gets better every day but I'm still reaching out trying to learn.

uhmmm...here's what I do:

1. Pray EVERY TIME YOU FEEL HURT. Pray to God, let yourself cry, pick up the bible and let His word minister to you.
2. Do some breathing exercises...you probably get pretty emotional bothered or anxious when you feel hurt. The emotional pain gets physical sometimes. De-stress. Turn on some relaxation music and just focus on breathing. As those thoughts come to annoy you...let them go. They'll come back after you give yourself a break.
3. GET SOME FRIENDS. Some married friends! Don't overload them with your problems, but talk to them about some stuff. You might get some relief.
4. Understand that you CANNOT control your husband's will, his desires for you, nor his care for you. A lot of times, at least this is what I found....my frustration was due to me not accepting the fact that whatever I do won't change what he does. In other words, no matter how many tears I cry, no matter how many times I beg, no matter how many times I pray, no matter how many times I try to talk to him...he won't hear me or do anything different unless he wants to on his own, feels he has to, or HE DECIDES to listen to God. When I realize this, a lot of pressure goes off of me because I know that God is dealing with Him (or not if your husband's heart is hardened) but ultimately your husband is responsible to God for his actions with himself and with you as his wife. That released a lot of pressure on me.
5. Enjoy what you can. If there is EVER anything good between you and your husband -- even for a moment. Grab onto it and cherish it.
6. Realize your hope in Christ. Ultimately, we're going to pass from this earth one day. Looking forward to being with God for eternity in His PERFECT LOVE, PERFECT AFFECTION, PERFECT ESTEEM, PERFECT JOY is comforting to me. No I don't want to kill myself, but I certainly do look forward to being with God and not dealing with any of the crap of this world and sin. It will all be over and done with one day soon and you'll be in the most perfect place you can be...FOREVER not having to deal with this drama. Jesus Christ gave us this hope.
7. Know that God is there to give you rest. You just have to receive it, and live in it....as a conscious act of your will.


That's how i'm coping so far. let me know if you learn some other stuff  or if you have other ideas.

[tallat]

I kind of feel where you're coming from....only I've been married a little less than two years.
My husband chooses to petty much act like I'm not here unless it's on his clock, his desire, his drive (which ic hardly ever). My requests -- he rolls his eyes. I kind of know where you're coming from...it's like your heart is just being tossed in his hands playfully...and he gets mad when you address it, or ask him to stop, or you get told "you're too emotional" or it's somehow your fault. Ugh, all too familiar.

Truth be told, I'm learning how to cope with it....and it gets better every day but I'm still reaching out trying to learn.

uhmmm...here's what I do:

1. Pray EVERY TIME YOU FEEL HURT. Pray to God, let yourself cry, pick up the bible and let His word minister to you.
2. Do some breathing exercises...you probably get pretty emotional bothered or anxious when you feel hurt. The emotional pain gets physical sometimes. De-stress. Turn on some relaxation music and just focus on breathing. As those thoughts come to annoy you...let them go. They'll come back after you give yourself a break.
3. GET SOME FRIENDS. Some married friends! Don't overload them with your problems, but talk to them about some stuff. You might get some relief.
4. Understand that you CANNOT control your husband's will, his desires for you, nor his care for you. A lot of times, at least this is what I found....my frustration was due to me not accepting the fact that whatever I do won't change what he does. In other words, no matter how many tears I cry, no matter how many times I beg, no matter how many times I pray, no matter how many times I try to talk to him...he won't hear me or do anything different unless he wants to on his own, feels he has to, or HE DECIDES to listen to God. When I realize this, a lot of pressure goes off of me because I know that God is dealing with Him (or not if your husband's heart is hardened) but ultimately your husband is responsible to God for his actions with himself and with you as his wife. That released a lot of pressure on me.
5. Enjoy what you can. If there is EVER anything good between you and your husband -- even for a moment. Grab onto it and cherish it.
6. Realize your hope in Christ. Ultimately, we're going to pass from this earth one day. Looking forward to being with God for eternity in His PERFECT LOVE, PERFECT AFFECTION, PERFECT ESTEEM, PERFECT JOY is comforting to me. No I don't want to kill myself, but I certainly do look forward to being with God and not dealing with any of the crap of this world and sin. It will all be over and done with one day soon and you'll be in the most perfect place you can be...FOREVER not having to deal with this drama. Jesus Christ gave us this hope.
7. Know that God is there to give you rest. You just have to receive it, and live in it....as a conscious act of your will.


That's how i'm coping so far. let me know if you learn some other stuff  or if you have other ideas.

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I'm glad that these steps are working for you.

You mentioned that you've been married less than two years. I was optimistic in the early years also. However, living like this for 15 years wears you down eventually. I hope that your marriage gets better and you don't live many more years like you're living. If my husband and I could go back in time, we'd have divorced around 12 years ago, but that's us. I hope that your steps can continue to bring you peace and comfort.

As for having other ideas, I have none. I've tried everything over the years...and still try, but there is no true happiness when you're in a marriage that is without love and intimacy. Well, maybe there is for other people, but not for me. I do hold on to the hope of Heaven, but that doesn't ease the emptiness and hurt that I feel now. I have no family, a job that is more task-oriented than people-oriented, and few friends who I can REALLY talk to. My closest friends are out of state, so I'm pretty much alone. I'd like to get out and make new friends, but I can't hang out with single people being married and hanging with married people doesn't work if you're alone (which I would be). Most people have family to turn to, and/or a job that gives them some interaction, but I don't. Also, you mentioned clinging to the good moments. Well, I can honestly say that we've had none since we've been married. It was bad beginning with the honeymoon. I kept hoping it would get better, and I got pregnant right away so we stayed together, but it never did change for the better.

Regarding finding married couples, as our marriage deteriorated, so did our social life. It's hard to hang out with other couples who are loving and happy, when you are so miserable at home behind closed doors. Unless you are comfortable with facades (which I'm not), it's just not that easy. I found that it was too hard to socialize because we didn't have anything positive to say. It's still that way for me, which is why I go on-line. People don't want to listen to the bad stuff, and the only way to come up with happy stuff is to lie, so go figure. Eventually, we lost touch with all our married friends.

Anyway, I'll be curious to see how you are ten more years from now. I hope good.

[kcalhoun529]

I can't imagine feeling that way for over a decade. Good news is: All things work together for the good of those that love God and are called according to His purpose. ALL things, not some things, but all things. And if there is one thing I've learned so far in life it's that God is always on time with rescuing me...if I let Him.

Just out of curiosity: what have you learned about yourself that's been encouraging in this situation? And, what things has God done to show you that He sees you despite all of this?