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Offline BandofAngels

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« Reply #70 on: Wed Dec 10, 2003 - 12:19:06 »
Thanks for responding to my post, Lee. Maybe I was being too sensitive and personal about the topic.

However, from experience I know how a woman feels when her spouse chooses to engage in this type of thing. The first thing you do is blame yourself and think if you had been more desirable, or better in some way, that your husband would not turn from you to someone or something else for satisfaction.

That was the point I was trying to get across.  It seemed that there were some putting the blame on Twiglet for her husband's addiction, and I do not believe that is the case.  As you say, usually when there is a relationship problem, there are concerns and some fault on both sides.  However, sometimes as you also say, the husband (or wife) just comes across porn on the internet and the problem takes off from there without the fault of anyone else.

I guess I was relating with Twiglet in that I know how it feels to be "alone" in this problem with no one to understand, and have those you turn to for help cause you more guilt by suggesting that somehow you caused the problem.

Having your husband turn to porn instead of  you is devastating to a woman's self-esteem...devastating!  I think if husbands knew how it made their wives feel (providing they love their wife), then they would do everything in their power to overcome the problem even if it means getting help.

I do not know Twiglet (as probably no one else does either) nor do I know what relationship problems may exist between she and her husband.  However, I do understand the pain she is dealing with.

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« Reply #70 on: Wed Dec 10, 2003 - 12:19:06 »

Offline janine

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« Reply #71 on: Thu Dec 11, 2003 - 08:43:22 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]:cry:   nothing is helping   :cry:[/quote]
Have you a timetable, honey?

How long have you been married, how long ago was the first big problem incident in the marriage, how fast must Jesus fix this?

Not nagging, just wondering.

Offline Twiglet

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« Reply #72 on: Wed Dec 17, 2003 - 02:14:46 »
No.I haven't a timetable.

I've been married for over 17 years

the first major problem to hit the marriage was about 5 yrs ago

what do you mean - how fast must Jesus fix this? I don't expect Him to fix it within a certain time limite but any sign that things are improving would help me keep going and not just give up.

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« Reply #72 on: Wed Dec 17, 2003 - 02:14:46 »

Offline Cliftyman

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« Reply #73 on: Wed Dec 17, 2003 - 13:48:05 »
Twiglet first off, tell your husband what he is doing isn't right in any shape form or fashion.

Let him know the consequences of lust and sin.

Sit right behind him when he goes to get on that computer.

Put a bible on the desk the computer is on.

Ask him if he has looked at porn everyday.

And if all else fails, tell someone else and then tell the church if that fails.

If you and your husband are believers, you are part of the Church, I hope your congregation is one that is mature in a way strong enough to understand 1 Corinthians 5.

Pornography is a serious problem, I know because I have been there as many other young people my age have been.

Lusting after images on the computer is no different than committing adultery, and that is a serious breach of trust in your marraige.  Your husband needs to realize that, and he needs to understand the consequences of his actions with regard to your marraige and his relationship with the Church.

Also remember that as a believer your husband is first accountable to God even before you.  Don't be afraid to follow the actions of 1 Corinthians 5, if all other routes have been sought after.  Its not because you have given up, or you can't deal with him anymore, actions such as those taken in 1 Corinthians 5 are done out of love

Condoning your husbands behaviour is the same as giving him a death sentence.

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« Reply #73 on: Wed Dec 17, 2003 - 13:48:05 »

Offline janine

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« Reply #74 on: Wed Dec 17, 2003 - 23:00:33 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]... I don't expect Him to fix it within a certain time limit but any sign that things are improving would help me keep going and not just give up.[/quote]
Yes, I know what you mean, sometimes just a little sign of improvement will make the process of working thru stuff with a spouse much more bearable.

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« Reply #74 on: Wed Dec 17, 2003 - 23:00:33 »



Offline seekr

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« Reply #75 on: Thu Dec 18, 2003 - 12:08:36 »
Clifty..[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Condoning your husbands behaviour is the same as giving him a death sentence. [/quote]

I am sorry, but I think that statement is way out of line. What it does is bring fear to the person and does no good. Lust cannot be bandaged. Let's suppose this husband stops looking at porn and so he buries it deep inside only to have it emerge eons later. During the time he quits is he now okay? Who created us with those desires? Who has come to set us free? Stopping something by coercion (sp)or fear, is not going to help. "It is not what enters into a man that makes him unclean". The porn is not the problem. If this man shows love and is not being beat up by those who think they have the cure, then wait on God no matter how long it takes. It is God that delivers. I struggled myself with this for ahwile and now it has no hold on me and I am free.  Sin is not counted as sin anymore BECAUSE of freedom and because of a clean heart, which has nothing to do with me being "good".

seekr

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« Reply #75 on: Thu Dec 18, 2003 - 12:08:36 »

Offline TomDart

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« Reply #76 on: Tue Dec 23, 2003 - 20:38:17 »
Dear Twiglet and all others, Brothers and Sisters,

First of all, thanks for some open forum like this. I suspect we can discuss these things in a manner to help, assist and explore some what happens in everyday lives, relationships and marriages.

Twiglet, as sterile and straight forward as this post is, please know my heart is with you and yours. My prayer tonight includes you, for sure.  I use drivetime to work to pray, too. You will be there.  God Bless in a special healing way all involved!

I haven’t read every message in this thread.  My response is directed to the part on pornography,  repeating perhaps what others have said already.  Well, here are some thoughts from a man’s point of view.

First of all, we simply cannot generalize and assume most men are driven by some special “dumb brains

Offline TomDart

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« Reply #77 on: Thu Dec 25, 2003 - 22:18:17 »
Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I tried to edit my most recent post but "the site" told me I did not have permission to do that. I wanted to take out some of the stuff and put in more LOVE, more prayer, more encouragement to Twiglet. That is the true focus and in the last post I made, well, I got to opinionating from stuff I have read, seen, etc.  One thing does strike me as important, I think this is from Band of Angels:

 [!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]However, sometimes as you also say, the husband (or wife) just comes across porn on the internet and the problem takes off from there without the fault of anyone else.
[/quote]

This is very, very true.  Sure, when I first got on the internet and got Google, I did an image search.  The results told me that the internet is truly full of pornography and it is much, much more explicit than expected. This sickened me. Yet, at the same time, I did want to go back and look again! Sad! True! Temptations are there and it really takes discipline to avoid it.  It is too, too easy.  

I got scared to think that someone would think this is what I do, which I do not, spent a lot of time deleting every cookie, etc.  I simply do not go there...it is a temptation and a temptation some are more prone to go back to than others. I was able to escape it, with the prayer for "God, remind me to not do this."   Demons are always ready to lead us to more temptation.

I have a coworker who plays video games. Now, these are not pornographic at all(example, Star Wars Gallaxy, paid for monthy to play the game) but the addiction is very similar.  When the games are interactive, on the net with others playing, they tell me there is a rush of euphoria, an excitement to it. This is addictive. They tell me it is!! I believe them.  The pornography sites are not much different in the effect, I would suspect.

So, I do pray for anyone who finds unnatural euphoria on the net. I do pray for you, Twiglet and specially for your guy.

 The addictive fantasy is one very difficult to put down...whether a "safe" video game or one that leads to thoughts which are very unGodly and can truly affect relationships.   I do pray. That is the main point. I pray that God see the reasons why, not blame, the reasons and will bring and end to the problem within freewill, even it that means exposing all that have created it within their hearts! That is a tough prayer. That prayer when answered will mean some adjustment.  God would be pleased with the adjustment? Yes, if more Godliness returns and a better road is found.  Tough stuff.  My heart cries.

God Bless.      TomDart.

Offline janine

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« Reply #78 on: Thu Dec 25, 2003 - 22:27:30 »
Keeping in mind all this practical stuff and personal observation Tom has brought up - Maurine has an excellent point.

If we can get the behavior modified, that's nice, but just stopping the behavior does not cleanse one from sin.

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« Reply #78 on: Thu Dec 25, 2003 - 22:27:30 »

Offline TomDart

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« Reply #79 on: Thu Dec 25, 2003 - 22:48:19 »
Dear Janine,

I will quote here one of my favorite scriptures and one that is used on one of my email addresses as a "signature":

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Ephesians 6:12

This so so true! The fight must include all our gospel armor. We sometimes foolishly assume we are wearing that armor. Not so, we must put it ON! And prayer helps a lot in that along with faith in the power of the Spirit to work with God for us.

Still, the sin is not cleansed? Or, from the believing heart is it cleaned or not? But repeated, repeated, forced into the very face of God.  That last part is what frightens me. When we stop something, move on, are cleansed by grace and then fall back.  But to sin with determination to sin( that is what it is when we do the same sinful things time and time again) we are being "in your face" to God. That is frightening and submission to the very core is needed with the help of God to raise us up by our boot straps. No person can do that alone. Help is needed, whether from the Spirit of the Holy One movng strongly to convict and convince, from practical turns around the sinful person as consequences of actions...etc. Help is needed.  Ultimately, help means turning to God in submission and repentence with a prayer for strength to resist the very real demons the evil one has launched against us.  Whatever it takes to get to that point.... that is my prayer.  Might get rough along the way.

The practical "in this world" consequences of sin, including in this particular case the "perceived consequences" such as cookies, computer memories and hidden temp files... these things can bring the effect of "consequences" into the real world and fear.  The fear is justified by the actions. If this brings the person to God, praise God!. If this brings the person to realize the need to back off the sinful stuff...praise God for that!  Too often the "personal sin" seen as simple and unharmful to others is terribly harmful to others and is certainly harmful to the one doing the sin, over and over again.  Something has to hit the heart and say BACK OFF  and get a grip and move on. Be forgiven and move on.  Reaility of the consequences is a good motivator to stop any sinful actions.  Reality that God does forgive is also needed, desperately! Guilt must be relieved and forgiveness by God understood.  A heart in guilt is not a heart able to be active for the good God wants us to do.

These things are deep and can leave deep scars. I do pray that the scars are shallow and the healing complete. Believe me, that is my prayer. As I speak that is my prayer.

 Janine,  Good point you made.

God Bless. Merry Christmas!      TomDart.

 

     
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