My wife wants a divorce, Hoping y'all can shed some "light" on the issue for me.

[TXNHFF]

I apologize if this is kind of long, but wanted to provide as much info as possible so as to fully inform anyone who might be able to assist.  I am 33 and have been married to my wife for 11 years this Aug.  We have 3 kids; 8, 6, and 3.5.  Our history is that we have always had a up and down relationship.  When things are good, they are great.  When they are bad, we can fight and argue with the best of them.  My wife likes to describe our relationship as caustic.  The real issues started about 2.5 yrs ago.  For years before that, I have battles sleep issues that I thought were causing me to have anger issues.  By anger issues I mean things are going well, and something happens such as the kids misbehaving, etc and at a certain point I never see coming, I snap and start yelling.  I don't know I am reaching this point until its too late.  Its like a truck slams into me from out of nowhere.  So, about 2.5 yrs ago, I finally got my sleep issues diagnosed and started treatment, but the anger did not go away.  I started seeing a psychologist and he and my PCP put me on something akin to zoloft.  That worked OK for a bit, but eventually is started interfering with my sleep issue treatment, so had to stop it.  I continued to go see the psychologist and things seemed OK for the most part.  We still had some rocky times, but not horrible so I thought.  About Nov of 07, we started seeing a marriage counselor (we both agreed we should).  One day, after about 5.5 months of that, we could not make 1 appt.  I asked my wife to please reschedule.  She tried to call the counselor once, and then when I asked if she ever called back, my wife said no, and she was not going to try again as she felt it was not helping.  From then on, our arguing got worse (still in my eyes, nothing we could not overcome).  In mid May, I decided it was time to see a psychiatrist for my anger.  We talked and decided it may be beneficial to start on Lithium.  We also discussed that it can take some time (up to 6 weeks) to reach full effect.  During that time, as had gone on for about the last 2 yrs of our relationship, my wife told me she did not know what she wanted out of her life, our marriage, etc, but she continued to tell me she loved me, etc.  Finally, on the 25th of May, it all kind of came to a head.  We had another argument where I all but begged her to tell me what she wanted, needed, etc, as I could not take it anymore.  I also told her I was going to leave to give her some space.  She begged me not to leave, told me she loved me, and I ended up not going.  That night, I told her I needed to know what she needed me to do from her point of view to fix the relationship, and I needed to know by Thursday (the 29th of May).  After that, over then next couple of days, I talked/counseled with a few people I trust and know to be Christians (including her mother and sister whom I have a very good relationship with).  They advised I was pushing her into a corner, should not do this, and should talk to her immediately.  That Wed night (the 28th), I did so.  I apologized for what I had done, what I had done to contribute to the issues in our relationship, and that I was going to continue to go to the psychiatrist, figure out my issues, and get better for me, as if  I got myself better, it would in turn make me a better husband and father.  She listened, and then when I was done, told me she appreciated all I had said, but that forcing her to think about it, and pray about it, made her realize that while she loved me, I was her best friend, and good father, she was no longer "in love" with me, did not want to live in a caustic, loveless marriage, and wanted a Divorce.  she wanted us to live in the same house until Sept (she also said she knew it would be a miracle if we could do that through the summer), get our finances in order, and in Sept proceed from there with separating and divorcing.  I was devastated.  I did not scream, yell, etc and storm out or leave (come to find out later, that is exactly what she expected me to do).  I broke down and cried, asked her to please forgive me for driving her to that point, said I still loved her very much and wanted to save our marriage, both for our sake and the kids.  she said she did not think she could do that, she would think about it, but not to have any hope.  It has been 2 weeks since then.  We are still in the same house, we still sleep in the same bed, she will completely undresses in front of me, etc, but there is no physical contact (no hugs, etc).  In that 2 weeks, I have made 3 comments that have not been the smartest (the first being the only time we discussed finances, I said something that made her feel like I was accusing her of trying to bankrupt me, another time I asked for a hug, she gave me one (it was not her usual hug), so afterwards, I guess I looked disappointed, she asked what was wrong, and I said I was hoping for a "better" hug than that, and she got upset and said that was her usual hug (it was not, 11 yrs, I know how she hugs), and this was another example of how she could never be what I need.  I said thats not true, shes exactly what I need, I have realized this all to well.  She then said her back hurt and she gave me the best hug she had.  I explained that if she had told me this, I would never have asked for a hug or hugged her like I did, or expected more (I realize saying this was dumb, but I can't take it back).  The other mistake I made was a few days ago, we were all at her mothers pool, she yelled at me for throwing my son in the pool (he had asked), cause she was afraid someone would get hurt.  I took it wrong (especially her tone), asked her to speak with me in private and walked around the corner and waited for her.  When she came, I asked her not to speak to me like that in front of the children, asked if she was done with us.  she told me not to ask that again, and not to do that to her again.  After talking about this incident, I realize I handled it wrong, should have let it be, and that in doing what I did, I made her look more like a child than a wife in front of my kids.  So, while during these incidents, and over the last 2 weeks, I have not lost my temper at all (I feel 100% better on the Lithium), I have made some mistakes.  I still get the feeling she is not even going to try to salvage the relationship and is still going to want a divorce.  From some observations people such as her mother have given me, etc, I have items I am going to work on for my own personal well being with the Psychiatrist, and will be praying to God about, but I do not understand her willingness to throw away a 11yr marriage.  I do not believe that anything we have had occur would make that 1 - OK in God's eyes, 2 - benefit the children, 3 - benefit us.  I don't understand how she can say she prayed about this and felt it was the right thing to do.  Please, anyone who has any input, it would be greatly appreciated.  Also, all prayer for our situation is always welcome.

[jb728b]

Anger issues, depression , rage ect  are things that can be dealt with.  Here's the crux of the matter.  It won't happen over night.  Sometimes medication works, sometimes it doesn't.  The same goes with counseling and therapy.  Sometimes you just have to get a hold of yourself and be alone for a few.

The best advice that can be given is not divorce but time apart.  Scripture totally supports this so that each of you can devote time to prayer and meditation.  If either of you believe that you are the only ones who have ever had to deal with such problems you are sadly mistaken.  Many have done so and overcame.  The two of you can do the same but it takes a willingness from both of you to make it happen.  Personally, I would rather spend a few days, weeks or even months away from my wife than to lose her forever.

[shuta]

It is obvious that  you are willing to work this out but your wife seems to have had it and justifiably so.  Understand that it is emotionally draining to be around someone who can explode anytime.  The tension keeps you on your feet 24/7!!!!!!!

whereas you feel that your wife should understand and appreciate the changes in your life now, it is important for you to appreciate that she was the one taking everything that you poured out (anger, rage etc) in the last 2.5yrs.  You can not imagine the wounds that have been created in your wife's heart.

She needs time to heal and the person who is going to help her heal is you.  Stop thinking about what you want etc and pay attention to what she wants.  Take advantage of the time between today and September to prove to her that you have changed and that you are the Man for her.

Forget about your needs (esp physical) for sometime and put her needs first.  When you give love I believe you will reap love

[TXNHFF]

Thanks for the input so far.  Shuta, I am not sure if you mis-understood me or I did not state this clearly.  I accept all that I have done that has gotten us to this point.  That is why I am doing what I am doing (psychiatrist, meds, Drs, etc) .  The issues I have are that she also has contributed to this, it is not just my doing (she can have a nasty temper as well).  I have asked her to go to see someone, or to continue to see a marriage counselor with me, but she refuses.  Her words say that she has just given up, yet we continue to sleep in the same bed, she undresses in front of me, and has made no financial plans.  I am giving her as much space as I can.  I do not call her, either at home while I am at work, or when she goes to work.  Since the 1 time mentioned before, I have not asked for a hug or any physical contact.  I pretty much just let her be unless I need to initiate the conversation due to something with the children, or she starts the conversation.  On the meds, my temper is much more controlled, and I feel 100% better about myself.  I guess the hardest part is giving her time and space, when on the occasion something around our marital relationship is mentioned (i.e. finances, vacation, fall plans for kids, etc), all she says is well, when in September, or if in September (she usually corrects the if to when) she needs to be ready for what will happen (eluding to the Divorce).  Top if off with her state of undress around me, etc, its like ripping my heart out each time.....

Do I want this divorce...NO
Do I want to stay married...YES
Am I selfish for doing so...I believe NO....and I say that not because of my wants, but ultimately because of the 4 other most important reasons which are God, and my 3 kids....

[Sherman Nobles]

TX,

As you know, divorce is caused by the hardness of heart; and apparently your wife has hardened her heart against you.  I encourage you to read "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend.  It's likely she is the type who because of her love, devotion, and commitment to the Lord will take abuse, and take it, and take it, and take it; and then one morning she wakes up and can't take no more.  And any least harsh word or cross look just hardens her heart further.  And once someone like this has hardened her heart, it can take a long time for it to soften, if ever, towards the person she's given up on. 

There is another book that might be helpful, "Surviving An Affair" by Harley and Chalmers.  Of course, it's not an apples to apples comparison, but there is a lot of wise principles and action steps that could be very helpful.  Basically, through your angry verbal abuse of her and your children you've destroyed her trust in you and it's going to take extreme measures of humility on your part to begin restoring that trust.  You're going to have to act like you're walking on egg shells trying to not break them for a pretty good while.  If, IF, she softens her heart towards you, you had better be greatful for she doesn't have to even before the Lord. 

She calls your relationship "caustic" because it has been "caustic" to her and to your children.  And basically, she's lost any hope that you might change and that you could have a happy life together.  There's not much else that you can do except give her space and pray that God softens her heart.

I can understand the difficulty you're having staying with her in the same bedroom and sleeping with her and yet not being able to be intimate with her.  To handle this you at least need to go ahead and move to the couch, or possibly find a friend or relative that you can stay with.  As long as she sleeps with you and refuses to be intimate with you it actually increases the hardening of her heart against you, and it causes you tremendous frustration which in turn empowers negative emotions in you towards her, which sets you up to act negatively towards her which further hardens her heart against you.  It's really a vicious cycle; it's no wonder that scripture says to not sexually deprive eachother except to separate and devote yourselves to prayer!  If she insists on not being intimate with you, there really is little that you can do except separate for a time.   

On the other hand, sexual intimacy actually releases bio-chemicals in a woman's brain that emotionally bonds her to the person she's intimate with.  And for the man it is also a bio-chemical release that helps him to be more peaceful, not so anxious or uptight.  Regular sexual intimacy is a very important aspect of marriage. 

TX, I pray that things work out between you and your wife.  My book, "God is a Divorce' Too!" would actually be helpful too; though it is an accademic study of the biblical principles of marriage, divorce, and remarriage.  In other words, it's not a "How to" book, but more of a text book.  It's certainly not a bed-time inspirational read. :)

Blessings,
Sherman

[TXNHFF]

Sherman,

Thanks for all the kind words.  I am sad to reply that at this time, things look dire.  She told me last night she was not going to try and could never love me again.  She could never trust me or probably another man for that matter.  She told me how abusive I have been over the years and that I would never change, and even if I did, she would always be waiting for the other shoe to drop. 

(lets be clearer on the abuse part here...I have never hit her, called her names (to include cussing at her, calling her stupid, worthless, etc, etc), or berated her.  What we are both classifying as abuse here is our ability to never see eye to eye, try and use things to "control" each other (we do this in different ways, me sometimes the way I talk to her in front of the kids, her, with sex, intimacy, etc). 

During all this, I just listened.  I did not argue or fight.  When she finished, I told her if she was done trying, then we should look at a separation or divorce, and she should move out.  She went nuts from that, started to threaten me, etc etc.  I then stated I was more than willing to try a separation with the idea that we are still married, neither of us would date, we would just use the time to get our heads and hearts straight.  She did not like that either.

So, as of this morning, she told me she would be calling a mediator.  I looked at her, said ok, and stated very calmly that we should look at finances and get all that straight.  I guess its over....   

[Mac]

During all this, I just listened.  I did not argue or fight.  When she finished, I told her if she was done trying, then we should look at a separation or divorce, and she should move out.  She went nuts from that, started to threaten me, etc etc.  I then stated I was more than willing to try a separation with the idea that we are still married, neither of us would date, we would just use the time to get our heads and hearts straight.  She did not like that either.

What exactly does that mean? How did she threaten you? What part of that (high lighted portion) did she not like or react to the most?

Earlier you posted that she undresses in front of you but is never intimate. That is a power play. She is showing you that she is in control of the situation. Do not think for one minute she does not know what she is doing. She is trying to drive you crazy. SHE KNOW'S WHAT EFFECT IT HAS ON YOU... Take that power away from her. Sleep in another room. Do not let her do that to you.

Now, I read your post and it appears you both have caused this issue. Not you...Not her...But both of you together. The blame falls evenly here. You should respect her wishes and give her the space she wants. However, do not let her abuse the situation. Is it possible she has met someone else? Only you can see the signs...As others have said, it IS biblical to separate. As far as God telling her that divorce is the answer, I do not think so. Why would God instruct you to do something that he hates? Now, if you have been abusive to her, i.e. physical, mental, emotional, abandonment, etc..., I can see where she would think it is appropriate.

Her lack of interest in seeking help together as a couple is strange. It is also very telling. For what ever reason, she is through. For now. I know what I went through and I know the reason's for it. Only time will tell how this will work out for you. But remember this, the easier you make it for her, the bigger the likelihood she will leave. I am not saying to be mean or hostile. What I AM saying is, you should not make this easy for her. Do not baby sit while she goes out. Do not financially support her if she is out "partying". Do not lay in the bed while she undresses. If she tries to do it, tell her to go to bathroom to change. If she continues, get up and leave the room. It will serve 2 purposes. It will take that "playing card" away from her and it will help control your desire for physical intimacy. Remember, men are visually turned on. Seeing her naked body is not going to help. As I stated before, find another room to sleep in. If you do not want the children to see that, sleep on the floor in your room. 

I have already said a prayer for you. I hope that God grants you wisdom. Please be mindful of the children and their needs during all this. You need to be on your knees praying for God's hedge of protection around you, your children and your wife. Seek counsel from your pastor. If you do not want to discuss your dirty laundry with someone you know, find a pastor at another church. Although I recommend some counselling from your pastor. Simply because he knows the both of you.

God can heal your marriage. But you BOTH have to want it. You can't force it on her. If it is divorce she wants, it is a divorce she will get. You can only fight it for so long. But you don't have to serve it to her on a silver platter either. Make it difficult for her. Do not give in to her or her threats, demands, etc...

Good luck...
Mac

[TXNHFF]

Mac,

What I mean by she went nuts and started to threaten me was this.  She said she would get a lawyer, she would play hard ball, she reminded not so nicely that it was her money that her father left her when he passed that paid the down payment on our first house (she neglected to mention that I all but hocked my liver to pay her debt off while we were dating and in the first year or so of our marriage)...anything and everything she could to be hurtful.  At this time, here is where I am....

1 - Plan to listen to Love must be tough by James Dobson over and over again till its firmly ingrained in my brain.

2 - Will let her go, I don't want to, but I know I have to.

3 - As you said Mac, I will not make it easy on her in that I will not let her hold all the cards, I will not let her use me as a sitting service, etc, and I will not let her use the kids against me.

4 - PRAYING CONSTANTLY........

5 - unfortunately, thorough it all....still deeply in Love with her......

[shuta]

I am sorry my initial post seemed to come down too strongly on you.

However following the additional info you have given I am not sure I still maintain my position.

In all this I am thankful that there is someone in this marriage who has refused to give up and has taken to prayer!!!!

Encourage your wife to go through with  the mediator idea as I am hopeful that the Lord will lead her to a mature, spirit filled & led, level headed mediator who will be able to speak into her life and yours causing you marriage to blossom again.

Your decision to hold on to God in this trying time is commendable  ::tippinghat::and I know it will pay off.

2 Samuel 22:25-27 (New International Version)
25 The LORD has rewarded me according to my righteousness,
       according to my cleanness [a] in his sight.
 26 "To the faithful you show yourself faithful,
       to the blameless you show yourself blameless,
 27 to the pure you show yourself pure,
       but to the crooked you show yourself shrewd.

[Mac]

Mac,

What I mean by she went nuts and started to threaten me was this.  She said she would get a lawyer, she would play hard ball, she reminded not so nicely that it was her money that her father left her when he passed that paid the down payment on our first house (she neglected to mention that I all but hocked my liver to pay her debt off while we were dating and in the first year or so of our marriage)...anything and everything she could to be hurtful.  At this time, here is where I am....

Let her get a lawyer. As far as playing hard ball, so what? Divorce is nasty anyway. It is possible to be amicable later but in a situation where one wants it and one does not, there is bitterness. No way around it.

I am not sure where you live, but most states are what is termed "equitable division states" as far as marital possessions go. It doesn't matter who gave the money (her father, your father, etc...) only WHO was it given to and WHEN was it given. In this case, it is marital property. If the money is given to you or her during the marriage, it becomes a marital asset. What you did before marriage, it is a moot point.

1 - Plan to listen to Love must be tough by James Dobson over and over again till its firmly ingrained in my brain.

GOOD

2 - Will let her go, I don't want to, but I know I have to.

Absolutely correct here.

3 - As you said Mac, I will not make it easy on her in that I will not let her hold all the cards, I will not let her use me as a sitting service, etc, and I will not let her use the kids against me.

Excellent

4 - PRAYING CONSTANTLY........

This is a must.

5 - unfortunately, thorough it all....still deeply in Love with her......

Absolutely understand. I feel your pain brother.

[Sherman Nobles]

TX,

I'm glad that I misunderstood you and you haven't been abusive.  And from what else you've shared it sounds like you're making some solid progress personally.  If her heart is not completely hardened against you, separation could very well give her room to remember what she loves about you and appreciate you. 

Unfortunately, a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of their spouses, and they also forget that the primary purpose of marriage is companionship.  I hope you have a good Father's Day and enjoy your children. 

Blessings,
Sherman

[TXNHFF]

I am not sure how to deal with the pain anymore.  All I can think of is how if I am feeling this much pain, my children as sure to feel some as well.  I cry because of that.  I love them more than anything else in the world.  They hold the dearest place in my heart right under the Lord and it kills me every moment I see them to know the pain that is coming towards them that I can not hold back......I pray for a miricle for all our sakes......Lord, I do not know how to protect them anymore....

[shuta]

When I am overwhelmed by the things around me and I cannot pray, I listen to worship music.  Try it.

Praying for you.

[mikesayen]

if she is not claiming to be a believer, then let her go.  if she goes to church, then bring it up to her in private, the scriptures, not to separate what God has joined togeather matt 19:6 then bring two witnesses.. then if she doesn't repent bring it to her church leaders... to light.

love ya...michael