pre-marriage mistakes affecting marriage

[3hpj]

This is going to sound pretty stupid to most people, but I am seriously looking for some advice from anyone in the same circumstance, and of course some encouragement through the Word.

Quick history.  I (husband) was raised in a Christian home, 4 kids, parents still married, brothers a pastor, brother-in-law is a pastor, dad is ordained.  Dad and I are in business together now.  Anyway, very good childhood, nothing to complain about, was raised correctly and hope I can be half the parent mine were.  One thing I was taught and drilled into me was about sexual purity.  I kissed my fair share of girls thru high school and college, but was saving everything else for marriage.  I never said ‘I love you’ to anyone but my wife, and I took it serious.

My wife, raised in Christian him, 2 kids, parents still married, her sister and sister’s husband in ministry together.  Very good childhood, except that she was the older sister, and (I am guessing) her parents made some mistakes with guarding her relationships.  She started dating a guy in middle school, off and on thru high school and college.  She would travel to visit him, stay in a hotel with him, travel on vacation with him (he was a couple years older, and in the military).  All that to say, she did save actual intercourse for marriage, but all other sexual acts had been taking place since very early on in her relationship with this guy.  The odd thing is that her sister never kissed a guy until her husband.

Anyway, on to the dilemma.  We were married after college, and have been for the last 7 years.  This is the ONE issue that really peeks its head frequently.  Our intimacy is definitely lacking, and there are a lot of periods where I would rather not even think about being with her, considering the intricacies of how this affects the both of us.  She has some guilt that plays out in weird ways, and specifically has affected the way sex is actually good for her.  There are a lot of things that trickle a hundred different ways, and at the end of the day, it would be great to get over this in some form or fashion and not have to keep dealing with it.

This is a VERY condensed version, but I needed to get some feedback.  I really don’t care to hear someone say to ‘get over it’… heard it for years, and this is affecting both me and my wife separately and together.  I know it does not sound as complicated as other posts here, but would appreciate some constructive criticism.

[Mac]

What in your intimate life is lacking? Attraction? Time? What your doing?

It is kind of hard to give information when we really do not know the issues.. A lot of people have intimacy issues, but there is a reason why...

Are you saying that you are having issues with her past and it affects your sex life?

[chosenone]

You need to forgive her once and for all, (as God has) and never mention it again, and she needs to forgive herself once and for all and never bring it up again and you both need to LET IT GO..Why does she still feel so bad after all this time? So she slipped up a bit, that is in the past, she didn't actually have intercourse and that is one good thing.
Do you both believe that God forgives and forgets our sins, and if you do, why are you still so wound up about it?God has forgotton it and you need to also.

The problems you have may be nothing to do with the fact that she went a bit far with this guy. It isn't as if she was sexually abused or something. Why should it affect you both so much?

 Many people have some struggles sexually in marriage and I am wondering if you are just assuming that it is  because of what she did when it may just be normal marriage issues that need to be worked on, maybe with some counselling.

[phoebe]

As far as the east is from the west.

Can't do that by yourself, get professional Christian counseling.

We're just regular folks, liable to give you well-intentioned yet bad advice.

[Mac]

Bingo.  Sorry if I didnt address it correctly.  We have a good sex life, but it is very much up and down.  The down is solely because the past issues keep coming up... it either affects her ability to 'let go', or my ability to really even want to be with her.

I've had the question about forgiveness... here's my .02.  I feel like she has been forgiven for it, and even though it wasn't directed at me per se, she seeks my forgiveness all the time.  I really think it is more of a consequence issue at this point... we end up living with sin from our past.  I have forgiven her, but once again, I just don't see this thing going away.  It keeps coming up again and again, and as of the last few weeks, it really begins to not only affect our sex life, but it seeps into communication, basic interactions, etc. 

That help?

While you say you forgive her, I think deep down, you resent her somewhat. I know what this is like because I have been through it.

My first wife had an affair. I said I forgave her, but struggled until I turned it over to the Lord. We have good intentions, but without the Lord, we can't do it. We just can't. I think you are in the same point in your life right now. I think her continued "seeking of my forgiveness", is indicative of her not feeling forgiveness from you. She may say she knows you forgive her, but she really doesn't believe it.

Do you bring it up all the time?
Seek some Christian counseling. As a couple. If she is reluctant, you go.

[armywifenmom]

i'm confused, why would she need your forgiveness, you never indicated that you guys were a pair at the time it happened. It also sounds like the problem may be more yours than hers.

[Mac]

I agree with what you say... would like to get rid of it once and for all.  Did you turn it over once you and your first wife were no longer together?  I only ask out of curiosity.

No, I turned it over while we were together. We stayed together for 6 more years. I tried to say it didn't matter, but it did.. Until I gave it to the Lord... He took it away.. Maybe it was because I REALLY wanted to forget about it. Like it never happened..

As for bringing it up, I try to never let it surface... it really is not a part of my thought process except when she brings it up.  Thanks for the thoughts and questions.

But it does surface. Why does she feel the need to seek forgiveness from you? That isn't a jab, I just don't think it should matter. The two of you weren't together. Was she wrong? Yea.. But the Blood of Christ covered that sin. She asked for and is forgiven... Period. Maybe you could spend some time with her reading scripture about forgiveness.... Maybe you could help her in that manner. For some reason, she is struggling. Is there any chance that things went a little further than she has admitted? And that maybe she feels guilt from not being honest?

[yesult]

It doesn't sound stupid to me, hope you're still checking this thread.

I think it's because it is a betrayal and you both care. Many don't.  The final act is only the end result of a journey, but that entire journey of intimacy is still sex and was designed by God to be between two people only in the setting of a permanent covenant.

She's actually betrayed you pretty badly although you're unlikely to hear that from many people.

From my own experience (and I don't really like sharing something like this online, but in case it helps - ) I grew up in a christian home but was unsure (like most christians I think) where the boundries were. Don't go 'too' far doesn't help much really. 

To cut a long story short, I lost two relationships over this issue. One was trying to get me into bed, (although I thought he loved me and I was thinking marriage) and the other I was almost engaged to. Get on a path and it'll take you one place unless you get off it. But once you get off at that point, if you look back, all the distance you've travelled up to that point is now gone. It isn't there to give to your husband outside of a technicality.

Anyway. I knew what I had done was wrong, but I still struggled with what was right, so I went to God and gave the thing over to him. Whatever his standards were, were the ones I was going to follow, not what somebody else told me.

Anyway his standards turned out to be nothing. NOTHING before marriage. No kissing. No pashing. No han wandering . No hand holding. NOTHING until you've made a permanent commitment.

Now here's the point. Although I now know what's right, what of my husband? I'm still single but not willing to marry anybody who isn't at the same place as me morally.
But here's part of the problem. It's taken me years (like 10 or so) to get to the place I am now, regarding forgiving those guys and myself. That's a longggg time. In fact I only just went through another layer yesterday.
And this for getting physical that didn't even end in sex.

Most people would laugh. But then people have different levels of commitment to purity. I took it seriously and it sounds like you have too.

But what do I do if my husband has had no experience because he's done everything right? Or less then me? Was he willing to end a relationship over it? Why did he always stop? Did the other party give no pressure? Did he just have higher standards at the time?
 But how many men are there out there that take this issue as seriously as I now do? - Bottom line. If I meet someone with my standards, he's either going to have to have been through the same journey as me to get to where I am, which I think is pretty rare, and if not, he's going to have to forgive me my journey. (That perhaps is still ongoing. (To who knows how long.)

Forgiveness can take time. Forgiving the others involved was just as hard for me as forgiving myself. And the bible tells us that unless we forgive others, our sins won't be forgiven. I'm not willing to settle for a guy who has lower moral standards then myself, but I also have to admit that I think he'd be a pretty unique guy to be in that situation.

Basically purity is a big issue, and its betrayal can have longgg reaching consequences. I even noticed in myself, a hardness and distrust towards men and physical touch afterwards that I didn't have before. It was a natural cynacism and emotional hardening that comes out of being used, which is what happens when you get physical outside of a lifetime covenant. 

God can heal anything. In fact when I first went to him seriously over this issue, he gave me a scripture saying 'Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.' Is 1:18 To which I actually felt pretty insulted. Here I was, losing a potential husband over this issue because I wanted to do the right thing (and had lost another one similar, although he wasn't actually interested in marriage which I discovered later) and I hadn't even had sex and God was telling me my sins were as red as crimson. But that's how seriously he viewed it. And I've been working through the consequences ever since.

Purity is important and forgiveness can take time.

That's all I can say.


All the best with it.


PS. Your wife is going to need to forgive those others guys to get forgivness for her own sin. It's just the way it works. (And you're going to need to do it too, for everything you did.) Only then (plus forgiving each other) will you be able to get through this issue from what I can see.

[Norton]

3hpj

You have three alternatives:

1. Divorce and then marry a snow white pure virgin, with all the other traits you want,  if that is possible these days.

2. Stay in the marriage, holding her past against her and being wretched for the rest of your life.

3. Stay in the marriage, forgive and be happy with what you have.

Sorry for being so blunt, but those are your choices. Perhaps you deserved to have a mate with the same level of intimate experience you had, and I can understand your disapointment, but life isn't always fair. If your wife is true to you, and pleasing in all other respects except for her past, then it will be worth the effort to choose #3. There are many men in the world who wish they had that option. Forgive, forgive, forgive, and let her know you forgive. Forgiveness is possible or else the Lord would not have commanded it.

[phoebe]

Good post, Norton.

Manna.

[Norton]

Thanks, Phoebe

[Mere Nick]

Good post, Norton.

Manna.

I'm hip to that.  Brief and to the point.  No fat on that meat.

[chosenone]

3hpj
I am not sure if you realise, but a very large proportion of women cant orgasm just through sexual intercourse( I read that somehwere.) Does it really matter?There are many other ways to achieve orgasm.
Was rather cruel of her to tell you that a previous boyfriend was 'bigger'. What does that matter?Cant see that it affects anything myself.

[IamStefanie]

Good to see you back. I'm sorry it's not under the 'best' circumstances. I don't think your wife should have let it be known about size. It's irrelevant. You are her husband. I'm bet the four paragraphs you wrote would have had answers to the question I have: does she want to make your relationship work just as much as you do? What does your wife believe the 'root' issue is? In the last two years, how has your attitude toward her and your relationship changed in regards to forgiveness and moving foward past her sexual past?

[Supplanter]

3hpj,

First, let me say that. No, this is not all your fault. It takes two and she is responsible for mature decisions just like you are. If she feels guilt and shame then it is because she is not taking responsibility for her own feelings in the situation. She will have to deal with that because you can't control her emotions. You can be kind and loving and give her a safe place but you can't change in her what she isn't willing to change for herself.

Second, I'm assuming the size comment was out of frustration with the situation. I know it is hard but I would just dismiss it.

I think that your wife's expression of you having issues with pride is very telling, though. As, in your first post, you do express that you did all the right things but she didn't and it is causing issues. So, I don't think you are an ego maniac or anything but I do think that slight feeling of superiority because she is the only one you have kissed, said I loved you, and had sex with is what is contributing her feeling "less" and being ashamed and guilty.

So, honestly, do you think she is morally "less" than you in some way because she committed a sin that you, by the grace of God, did not? Seriously, just asking to see where you are at in this, not a loaded question.

And do you believe that you achieved this avoidance of sin on your own, because of your own will or your great faith and self-control or did that self-control and faith come from God and was it by His grace that you avoided that particular sin? Again, not loaded, just trying to see where you are at.

Now did your wife explain this "block" she was having, because unless he had some very traumatic experience with this guy or their is some underlying issue she has with you outside of anything sexually then I personally just don't get that especially if she climaxes in other ways. And it truly may be that her body just isn't made to climax as powerfully through intercourse as it is in other ways.

Either way, keep seeing the counselor. I hope that they help.