Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?

[chosenone]

primary justice. people who attempt suicide in this way (and I doubt very much that she meant to take her own life)after they have been challenged,or given some sort of ultimatum, are very manipulative. They are really saying. "don't give me any ultimatums, or tell me how you feel, or do anything to upset me, or I will kill myself." That is the ultimate in control and manipulation. I have seen and experienced this in other very manipulative people in my own life. It is saying I cannot and will not deal with either your hurts, or you telling me that I cannot do what I want to do. It is like a child who screams and screams until they are sick when they have been told off or challenged in a way that they don't like.Of course she has got her way hasnt she, as now you are probably treating her with kid gloves. So, result 100% achieved for her.

It is a brilliant manipulative tool. You are now scared to do or say anything in case she does it again, therefore you are stuck in  no mans land with no were to go.You will be walking on egg shells with her now not wanting to do or say anything that you should be able to.Excuse me, who is having the affair here and who is the one being betrayed and hurt? By doing this, she has changed the focus from your deep hurts to herself and wanting you to see that she is hurt and not wanting to have to deal with what she is doing to you.It is unhealthy and very wrong behaviour.  She now has all your attention and sympathy when you are the one who has been deeply hurt.Very clever actually when you think about it.
 
You post said that she will be staying with friends, and that is a VERY good idea, and I think she needs to stay there (or at least away form you)until she either decides to leave this man and come back to you, or go to be with him.I would stay apart until she makes her mind up. If she chooses you then brilliant, if she chooses him, then she will have to live with the consequences, but she is the only one who can make that decision now.You cannot go on living this way with this betrayal day after day with her in the same house.
To have to live with a spouse who is having an affair is extremely painful and isn't right. you were right to do what you did despite her reaction.Don't let her actions make you stop being firm about this affair. YOU are the one being cheated on and not her.

leave her to God now. Don't blame yourself for what she did, She chose to do this, and she knew the effect it would have on you. She says she cannot leave him, well then she needs to separate permanently from you from now on until she sorts herself out and decides what she is going to do.

leave her to make her decision and just pray for her. that is all you can do now.

[Norton]

There can be no reconcilliation or satisfactory relationship until she owns up to her mistake and sincerly expresses regret. Taking the pills is another method of shifting her quilt on to you. Someone caught in an affair always tries to make it the fault of the other spouse to justify themselves. "You monster see what you made me do". The crazy thing is that the wayward spouse really believes their own lie. Do not buy into it. Reconcilliation is the best solution, but she is a long way from that. Show her constant love and be patient, but do not accept her back until she repents. Don't try to do what even God is not willing to do.

[chosenone]

primary justice
is this other man a christian? is he married? does he want to live with her?Does she want to go and be with him?
You are right in that there can never be any progress while she is still seeing him. Counselling is pointless if she is going to continue her affair.
It is up to her now to make the decision and chose him or the right way and come back to you. They cant be any half way house. Its all or nothing.

[primaryjustice]

Thank you for all of your replies once again. This bulletin board/thread have been a great source of comfort to me during this difficult time.

chosenone, your post has actually brought a change to my perspective. The more I look at it, the more I realize how manipulative this entire situation is, and it has opened my eyes to an unfortunate reality...my wife is trying to completely manipulate all of this in her favor, and it's actually quite sad. Seeing that has actually precipitated me to at least start looking at the last stage of grief, which is acceptance. I'm beginning to accept that my wife and I may never reconcile. While the roller coaster is still there, it looks more and more like this will end in separation and ultimately divorce, pending a major change of heart from her.

The situation stands as follows: she will most likely be discharged tomorrow, assuming they don't put her on a 72 hour forced hold. Since she has no place else to go, I have spoken with her counselor at the hospital and am willing to bring her back to the house, on the condition she immediately be given antidepressants. I will begin splitting our bills/assets and help her find another job with the goal of moving out. I've pretty much got the backing of my church on this and they support whatever decision I'm making while at the same time trying to be sure they're there for my wife, which I really appreciate. Once she finds another job (don't know if I mentioned, she's our church secretary. She will most likely not be able to continue her job as a result of this), I will work with her to move her out. At that point, I may give separation some time to see if there's any change of heart, or may file for divorce. I will definitely pray long and hard before makiing any binding decisions.

Thanks again for all of your prayers through this difficult time. I know she will eventually repent before God, which is what really matters. Once that happens, I'm sure her perspectives will change, however I may not be around anymore at that time. I pray for her well-being now and in the future.

[chosenone]

I hope that you will be able to sort this out. Are there no relatives or friends that she could stay with? What about the other man?
You have to remember that anti depressants usually take up to 2 weeks to have any effect, so don't expect instant results. Is she actually depressed or was she simply being manipulative? Was she just feeling under pressure from you to leave?   
Maybe this episode will bring her to realise what she is doing, so it may end up being a good thing, who knows, but she has to finish it with this man whatever happens. A lot depends on her relationship with him. Will he see her through this? Does he wants her to be with him? is he married himself?Does she want to be with him all the time? Does she want to stay with you while still having this affair?
Lots of maybes and if and buts.A lot may depend on hm and what he wants out of this. 

 I am glad that you have been able to recognise that her actions were actually plain selfish and that you are NOT in any way responsible. I have various people in my life who have been (or are) like this, including my ex husband, who, after hurting me deeply and betraying me and our children, threatened to put his head in the gas oven when I wrote him ONE LETTER telling him of my feelings of deep hurt. You see he was like your wife, he didn't want to have to deal with the fact that he had hurt me.He didn't want to know about my hurts. VERY manipulative behaviour. Of course he would never have actually killed himself. It was just his way of telling me not to say anything at all to him about the way he had hurt us all so badly.
 
My husbands ex is also very controlling and manipulative as is my mother in law,using tears and other weapons to get their own way, so I can usually spot it a mile off. I refuse to deal with such behaviour anymore.

God Bless. I pray that God will continue to give you the strength to cope, and the wisdom to do the right thing.

[primaryjustice]

chosen: thanks again for your response to this. Unfortunately she has made it a habit of pushing away most family and keeping them at arms length. While I never really agreed with that, I supported her decision as my wife. There's an ex-bf she might be able to stay with, but I'm not so sure she's up for that. The other man has made it repeatedly clear, from what she says, the he does not want her in his house. He is divorced (surprisingly enough, had the exact same thing happen with his wife and another man) and has two kids (and is 21 years older than my wife / not sure if that matters). As far as what he/she want, I don't really know. She says originally the plan was for her to get another job, find another place, and then just kind of leave one day and date the other man. Again the more I look at this from a perspective of manipulation, the clearer things are starting to get. She has said that she knows they may not necessarily end up together, but thinks she should at least "try". I'm not really sure what the guy wants. He actually went to visit her at the hospital, for what that's worth. But you're right, absolutely no progress can be made in our marriage with him in the picture, and it sounds like she has no intention of letting go anytime soon. It's almost like a drug; if you even bring up removing him from the picture, she gets very anxious and defensive. It's almost sad.

I've told my church I'm open to them maybe finding another church member's house to crash at if she accepts it. She probably won't because she's in full rebellion against God and everything related to him, but it would definitely be better for us. I figured anti-depressants take a while to work, so I plan on spending as little time with my wife as possible while she's at home. All I will do is pray for her and keep taking her to God. The only way for reconciliation to begin is for her to first realize and accept that what she's doing is wrong, and be willing to reconcile with God first.

As always, thanks again for your comments.

[chosenone]

wow that sounds weird. They are supposed to be so close and in love but he doesnt want her in his house???Doesnt she think that is weird? She is wanting to give up everything for a man who doesnt even seem to really want her. Is he a Christian?

The bit you write about her tunring againts the church seems very common among people who are having affairs. After all they really dont want to be challenged and told they are sinning so they stay away.My husbands ex left her church after the pastor told her that she had no reason to divorce her husband, and shouldnt be doing it, and that she had a hard heart.  Needless so say she got angry and left the church.  Just treat her with respect and fairness as my husband did with his ex, and as I did with mine, and God will bless you, BUT you dont have to put up with a wife who wont stop her affair. All that you can really do for her is pray that she will repent and turn away form her sin.

[primaryjustice]

Yeah, it's definitely a giant red flag in all of this...I guess he's mentioned putting her up in an apartment until she can get on her feet. I might push that more to see if I can call their bluff. But, I guess when you're blind to certain things, you tend to ignore obvious signs that something isn't right. I still wonder where his heart is in all of this.

I'll definitely try to show as much respect as possible. I'm distancing myself from her quite a bit to prepare myself for the challenge of having her back at home. We're going to have to sit down and work out the logistics of all of this. I plan on setting a date as well, because I can't have this be an open ended arrangement. That can end up in a major disaster.

I do thank God for this trial though; it's helping me grow in a number of ways, sometimes in leaps and bounds, and preparing me for what the future brings. My trust remains in Him!!!

[chosenone]

Well you are stronger spiritually that me, I havent got to the point of being able to thank Him for very painful times yet, but maybe I will get there one day!   Its always the hard times that drive us to Him though isnt it, and that is good. We NEED Him to show us the way.
I do wonder, if he is going to put her up in an appt, why she reacted so badly when you asked her to leave. I do fear for her if she does leave and if it doesnt work out for her with this man. What affect with that have?That has to be her decision though and there are of course always consequenses for sin.
God Bless

[haveahope]

PJ - so sorry you find yourself in this place.  It's lonely and confusing and painful.  I agree with whoever said this was a manipulative ploy.  The most selfish kind.  it's time to do the 180.  I will find that for you and post it.  It helps YOU.
  Take care of yourself.  Eat, hydrate, sleep - and then take care of yourself.  Do you have kids?

Your wife is in a 'fog' and isn't clearly thinking.  Have to go now, I will post more later.  You're in my prayers
Keep praying.
HAH

[phoebe]

It may be manipulative, but the rule of thumb is to always take seriously any threat of suicide.  There's a reason for the rule.  If suicide has been threatened, call a professional.  ASAP.  No one knows how serious the threat might be.

[chosenone]

Quite often if a person attempts, or threatens to kill themsleves, they have no intention of actually doing it. I agree that sometimes they do, but each person is different.
When My mum killed herself 22 years ago she just did it. No talking, no half hearted attempts,no threats, no manipulation. She REALLY meant  to do it and there was no playing around.

I pray that your wife will see sense now that this has happened. God can use awful situations to bring us to our senses.If she still wants to leave after this then let her go.

I did wonder actually. you mentioned that this man is 21 years older than her, and also that she isnt especially close to her family. Could it be that she is wanting a father rather than a husband?

[phoebe]

primary justice. people who attempt suicide in this way (and I doubt very much that she meant to take her own life)after they have been challenged,or given some sort of ultimatum, are very manipulative. They are really saying. "don't give me any ultimatums, or tell me how you feel, or do anything to upset me, or I will kill myself." That is the ultimate in control and manipulation. I have seen and experienced this in other very manipulative people in my own life. It is saying I cannot and will not deal with either your hurts, or you telling me that I cannot do what I want to do. It is like a child who screams and screams until they are sick when they have been told off or challenged in a way that they don't like.Of course she has got her way hasnt she, as now you are probably treating her with kid gloves. So, result 100% achieved for her.

...

Quite often if a person attempts, or threatens to kill themsleves, they have no intention of actually doing it. I agree that sometimes they do, but each person is different.
...

Yes, often they do.  But that isn't the call of any of us on any forum anywhere to make.  Only those with proper qualifications in contact with these two people need to be making these decisions.  And they do so with much more knowledge of the individuals, and always erring on the side of caution.

Being across the ocean doesn't exempt you from being responsible for your words on forums.  I don't know what the legal ramifications are, (got malpractice insurance?), but I wouldn't want to be the one to test that big water.

Please.  You may inadvertently be a participant in a suicide.  I know you don't want that.

[chosenone]

primary justice. people who attempt suicide in this way (and I doubt very much that she meant to take her own life)after they have been challenged,or given some sort of ultimatum, are very manipulative. They are really saying. "don't give me any ultimatums, or tell me how you feel, or do anything to upset me, or I will kill myself." That is the ultimate in control and manipulation. I have seen and experienced this in other very manipulative people in my own life. It is saying I cannot and will not deal with either your hurts, or you telling me that I cannot do what I want to do. It is like a child who screams and screams until they are sick when they have been told off or challenged in a way that they don't like.Of course she has got her way hasnt she, as now you are probably treating her with kid gloves. So, result 100% achieved for her.

...

Quite often if a person attempts, or threatens to kill themsleves, they have no intention of actually doing it. I agree that sometimes they do, but each person is different.
...

Yes, often they do.  But that isn't the call of any of us on any forum anywhere to make.  Only those with proper qualifications in contact with these two people need to be making these decisions.  And they do so with much more knowledge of the individuals, and always erring on the side of caution.

Being across the ocean doesn't exempt you from being responsible for your words on forums.  I don't know what the legal ramifications are, (got malpractice insurance?), but I wouldn't want to be the one to test that big water.

Please.  You may inadvertently be a participant in a suicide.  I know you don't want that.

  wow, some of you Americans can be so obsessed with malpractice type stuff...........

[haveahope]

PJ - here is a copy of the article I mentioned.  It can be tailored a little more to your specific situation, and of course you'd add prayer in great doses as well.  It may be you will need to wait a while as your wife is not stable.  I would say, if they don't keep her for a 72 hour hold, maybe they don't take her threat as serious either. 
 I understand the philosophy of never taking a threat seriously.  She ended up where she should have, in the hospital.  It is interesting that upon being given the ultimatum from you, she attempted this.  Has she been emotionally fragile in the past, before this mess?  I think that suicide is the ultimate selfish act, especially for a Christian. 
  I know my husband has often said, he just wishes the Lord would take him home, that would at the time seem preferable than feeling the pain.  But I kinda joke with him that he loves himself far too much to take his own life.  And he agrees.

 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

   1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
   2. No frequent phone calls.
   3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
   4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
   5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
   6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
   7. Don't ask for reassurances.
   8. Don't buy or give gifts.
   9. Don't schedule dates together.
  10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
  11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
  12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
  13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
  14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
  15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
  16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
  17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
  18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
  19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
  20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
  21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
  22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
  23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
  24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
  25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
  26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
  27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
  28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
  29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
  30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
  31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
  32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
  33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." 

I have heard testimony after testimony that these action saved marriages.  I know many of these suggestion had a profound effect on my wayward husband. 
 Hope it's helpful to some extent, if only to keep your sanity.

"pray without ceasing" I Thes.5:17, " the effectual  fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much"  James 5:16