Author Topic: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?  (Read 43971 times)

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Offline primaryjustice

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Hello. I'm new to this forum and was interested in seeking some council from other believers. My situation is not uncommon. Long story short, my wife has been having an affair with a man she met, who from day one I said was bad news. While no affair is simple, if it were a matter of committing infidelity, removing the affair, and seeking at all costs to repair the marriage, I would still be hurting but would dive in head first to try and fix the problem. What complicates this it that she is completely in love with the man. She has always had a difficult time opening her heart to me, or anyone, but apparently she did with this man. She gave him her heart, soul, and body.

The affair has been going on since mid-January, and although I'd been heavily suspecting it for months, I found out for sure last Tuesday. Immediately she told me I had no idea how deep it ran, and since my first reaction was to choose between him and me, she said she can't leave him, that it would be the end of her. Since then it's been crushing my heart to find out more and more details about just how intimate this relationship is (way beyond just physical). I've made the mistake of asking several questions and the answers have been devastating.

Even with all of that said, she says she still loves me, but had "checked out" of the marriage before this affair even started. Additionally, she knows the Bible well, and is very well aware of what scripture says about adultery. She says she knew going in, and that she made her choices, but she never wanted to hurt me, and she does not hate me.

We have talked to our pastors and have been referred to counseling, however I find it next to impossible to believe that it will do much unless there is a fundamental change in her heart and she makes the choice, of her own free desire, to end the relationship with the other man. This would indeed require that her heart change with God, and only then can restoration begin. I know I should believe in God for miracles, but is that what I'm doing here, or am I just being a doormat?

Any help / prayers would be greatly appreciated, both for myself and her. I still do love her very much, despite this mortal blow to our marriage. God is capable of resurrection.

Offline chosenone

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You are right in that the marriage wont work unless she decides to stop contact and work on it with you. While she is still seeing him, nothing will change.She does need to choose , but it sounds as if she has made her choice, sadly she will almost certainly regret it at some point but that is for her to find out.
Does she want a divorce so she can be with him? Does she intend to leave you?  Is the other guy a christian?
is she prepared to go to counselling? I cant see what use counselling is if she is going to carry on seeing him.

You may have to let her go, and pray. My husband went through this with his former wife. She met another man, a non Christian, and had an affair and wanted to marry him. She divorced my husband and then broke up with the other man 2 months later. The grass always seems greener, but it rarely is in practice. It turned out that he wasnt her 'knight in shining armour' after all and never wanted to marry her.

if I were you, I would ask her to choose, and then if she choose him that she must move out. I could not live with a person who was cheating on me, especially if they had no intention in stopping..  She is treading on thin ice with God. She knows full well what she is doing but is doing it anyway. Their relationship will NEVER be blessed by God, and we do reap what we sow. I just hope that at least he isnt married so that his family dont have to suffer as you are.

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been through it myself.  Choosenone is correct: she must choose to repent and change her ways.  She must choose to stop seeing him.  If she hasn't yet, she hasn't repented yet. 

As to kick her out until she repents, there is scripture for that, too.  If she is a believer, she is living in sin and knowingly doing so.  Having confronted her, then take another believer.  If she still doesn't listen, take her to the church.  She won't come along for that, of course, so deal with it incognito.

However, that is for another situation, I believe, but others would apply it here, so I gave it.  I think that the Word gives another scenario to follow, and that for those such as your wife.  It says that if you see a believer in sin, to confront him in love.  If the believer continues, do so a second time.  If the "believer" doesn't repent, then we, and you, are to have nothing to do with that person: not even to eat with such.

How does this apply to divorce being sin?  Separating from her is not divorcing her.  Those are two totally, totally different things, and they incorporate the use of different words.  Let's be sure not to confuse or mix the two, as one and the same thing.  Separte from her for the second scenario stated in conjunction with the Word, but do not divorce.  Forgive, even as Christ forgave you.

When there is repentance, then you can have reunion -- unless she has remarried, of course.  That is one of the most damnable things about divorce and remarriage: it completely preclude reconciliation, which is the foundation of the very gospel itself.  When we place a person in the position where they cannot be restored to fellowship at a later date when they have a change of heart, we have done spiritual violence to the kingdom of God.  If they do that, we cannot do anything about it, but it surely doesn't then free us to go and do likewise, does it?

These heavy things of the heart and mind are not easy to carry out, but they must be done in Him.  They must be done in light of all of the scriptures that He has given us on it.  Let not one outweigh or negate the other, in any way.  When in doubt, take the conservative, purest way, and God will reward us spiritually by the truck load.  Stay the course, no matter the pain.  God will indeed set your face like flint, so that you will not be taken down by it -- provided you acknowlege the Lord (folow Him) in all your ways, and lean not on your own understanding, but take His word at face value and live completely by it, no matter the cost.

Count the cost...

And he who puts his hand to the plow, and looks back, is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. 

Press on, dear man of God.  Press on, and remain faithful to Him through it all.

And may the God of peace guard you heart and mind in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior!  (He gave Himself totally for our restoration.  He paid the total bill.  Go and do thou likewise.)

Offline BAH-BLAH

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I was in that same seat too friend. Mine got within a week of a final divorce, and after a 1.5 yr seperation.
God did something VERY blunt in my case, LONG after I'd basically moved on and was actually OK and resigned to the new life (after literally torture for months, sickness, weight loss, no sleep, etc)...I was OK, THEN she shows up ready to reconcile. I was thinkin, "Thanks God.....why now?"

Anyway, I was led to hear Him saying hey bub this is what you wept for, this is what you begged and prayed for....here it IS....See I am faithful!!!

So I (reluctantly) reconciled and thats been 5 years.

Point is, there is hope, thats all Im trying to convey. Be open to Him and His leading, even if it seems like its not the shortest path to where you want to be.

son of God

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Good word, BB

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Offline primaryjustice

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Thank you all for your responses and prayer. I am trying to take this one day at a time, but throughout I feel God's peace and assurance that no matter what happens, he remains in control. Nothing has changed in the situation, but at least my wife is willing to go to counseling. While I doubt her motives, I appreciate the action. At least some hope remains.

I am prepared for the long haul in this, and through prayer and advice of others, I'm coming to recognize that my joy is not dependent on her or our marriage, or even the outcome of this situation, but on my relationship with Jesus Christ. That most important of relationships that suffered while I made the mistake of putting my wife ahead of Him has now become my primary focus in life. God truly is good.

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Excellent, PJ!!!

Offline BAH-BLAH

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Thank you all for your responses and prayer. I am trying to take this one day at a time, but throughout I feel God's peace and assurance that no matter what happens, he remains in control. Nothing has changed in the situation, but at least my wife is willing to go to counseling. While I doubt her motives, I appreciate the action. At least some hope remains.

I am prepared for the long haul in this, and through prayer and advice of others, I'm coming to recognize that my joy is not dependent on her or our marriage, or even the outcome of this situation, but on my relationship with Jesus Christ. That most important of relationships that suffered while I made the mistake of putting my wife ahead of Him has now become my primary focus in life. God truly is good.

Well dont be surprised that you recognize that in degrees. I do not expect it happens and sticks very fast. Peeks through the murk are great, then you get dragged back under,and its normal.

Keep bobbing up ands down, eventually you will float to the top and stay there

Offline johntwayne

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Offline JohnDB

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Thank you all for your responses and prayer. I am trying to take this one day at a time, but throughout I feel God's peace and assurance that no matter what happens, he remains in control. Nothing has changed in the situation, but at least my wife is willing to go to counseling. While I doubt her motives, I appreciate the action. At least some hope remains.

I am prepared for the long haul in this, and through prayer and advice of others, I'm coming to recognize that my joy is not dependent on her or our marriage, or even the outcome of this situation, but on my relationship with Jesus Christ. That most important of relationships that suffered while I made the mistake of putting my wife ahead of Him has now become my primary focus in life. God truly is good.

Look...you may not like the sound of this but any relationship where one partner is not concerned with God but is more concerned with their own personal wants and desires instead of serving God together with you....you don't want it.

Besides...the world is full of women who really want a good Christian man. The picking and choosing is yours...There are way more women than men.

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #10 on: Fri Sep 25, 2009 - 23:42:25 »
scripture advises you to stick with him that he might be won to the faith.  Christ is our total example in this, which we are to follow.  Isn't it interesting how we can demand this from God on our behalf, even though we were wicked from the get-go, and He suffered all for our sake, even while we knew nothing of Him, and worse than that, knew that what we were doing was sin.  The wife is commanded to submit to the ungodly husband, even if he is harsh, as this is the way of Christ, which He did for our sake.  We are told to do the same, to have the same mind as Christ, yet many who demand this of God for their own selves, and most gladly partake of the fruits of it for themselves, say that you shouldn't have the mind of Christ for others if it is unpleasant for you.  Novel.  I think that the word in the Bible for that is "hypocrite".  "forked tongues" is another one.  "speaking of that which they know not, affirming it..." is yet another one.


Offline Magnificat

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #11 on: Tue Oct 06, 2009 - 06:58:43 »
Hello. I'm new to this forum and was interested in seeking some council from other believers. My situation is not uncommon. Long story short, my wife has been having an affair with a man she met, who from day one I said was bad news. While no affair is simple, if it were a matter of committing infidelity, removing the affair, and seeking at all costs to repair the marriage, I would still be hurting but would dive in head first to try and fix the problem. What complicates this it that she is completely in love with the man. She has always had a difficult time opening her heart to me, or anyone, but apparently she did with this man. She gave him her heart, soul, and body.

The affair has been going on since mid-January, and although I'd been heavily suspecting it for months, I found out for sure last Tuesday. Immediately she told me I had no idea how deep it ran, and since my first reaction was to choose between him and me, she said she can't leave him, that it would be the end of her. Since then it's been crushing my heart to find out more and more details about just how intimate this relationship is (way beyond just physical). I've made the mistake of asking several questions and the answers have been devastating.

Even with all of that said, she says she still loves me, but had "checked out" of the marriage before this affair even started. Additionally, she knows the Bible well, and is very well aware of what scripture says about adultery. She says she knew going in, and that she made her choices, but she never wanted to hurt me, and she does not hate me.

We have talked to our pastors and have been referred to counseling, however I find it next to impossible to believe that it will do much unless there is a fundamental change in her heart and she makes the choice, of her own free desire, to end the relationship with the other man. This would indeed require that her heart change with God, and only then can restoration begin. I know I should believe in God for miracles, but is that what I'm doing here, or am I just being a doormat?

Any help / prayers would be greatly appreciated, both for myself and her. I still do love her very much, despite this mortal blow to our marriage. God is capable of resurrection.

I will pray for you.  I also believe that you need to pray as a couple. You need to pray for the Holy Spirit to come into both your hearts so that you can work through this.

Offline Ben

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #12 on: Tue Oct 06, 2009 - 11:58:26 »
Well brother I hear what you are saying and my prayers are with you since I know EXACTLY what you are experiencing because I too was at one time right where you are now, with the exception my (now ex) wife was not saved.  She chased her fantasy with her new lover for about six months, then found out that he had bad breath and his hair was a mess in the morning just like me, so she made a pitiful attempt to get me back in her arms. I say pitiful because I didn't even realize it was an attempt until 12 years after the fact!!!

My suggestions? 

Don't listen to the legalists they love dragging you down with legalism. 

Do listen to what the Holy Spirit is telling your heart.

Don't ever stop unconditionally loving her.  God loves us unconditionally, and we are God's children so we must love as He loves.

Start keeping a journal EVERY DAY.  Write what you feel and the scriptures God gives you that day.

Stay close to your brothers and sisters at your church. DON'T judge them if they seem to be avoiding you.  Since they don't know what to say to you they don't say anything. 

Talk with your counseling pastor frequently.

If an older and wiser man at church contacts you about sitting down over a cup of coffee and discussing your situation DO IT!

Ben

Offline yesult

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #13 on: Wed Oct 07, 2009 - 12:23:29 »
I personally think that Ben is giving you very sound advice. Particularly the point of listening to the Holy Spirit first and foremost.

Loving someone who has discarded you is a terrible place to be in. I'm so sorry for your pain. Will pray for you as well.

Offline primaryjustice

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #14 on: Wed Oct 07, 2009 - 18:39:07 »
Haven't had a chance to check the post in a bit, but again I'm thankful for all of the additional responses.

Blah; you're absolutely right. While I do keep landing on what I posted about putting my relationship with Christ first and foremost, the past three weeks have absolutely been the wildest emotional roller coaster I've ever been on. It does feel like I'm bobbing and keep getting pulled down underwater, but I still have that lifeline and know it's not going anywhere.

JohnT; thanks so much for your prayers. Please pray for my wife as well!

JohnDB; you're right about there being plenty of Christian women out there who do want to serve, and in myself I really do feel like just letting go, but I believe and feel led to try as much as possible to love unconditionally as much as I can.

Ben: I agree with what you're saying. I am praying and seeking as much counsel on this as possible.

Quick update. The rollercoaster of emotion and anger peaked for me this monday, and I gave my wife an ultimatum to break off the affair or leave the house. I regret this, not so much because of the ultimatum, but because I did it in anger and unloaded on her in ways I shouldn't have. Unfortunately, my wife's emotional health was not in the greatest shape, and she tanked and attempted to down almost an entire bottle of Tylenol PM pills while on the street at night. Thankfully she survived and is now in a hospital where she has been since yesterday morning, however it has completely changed the dynamic of this entire process. I am truly concerned for her safety right now, and I may just completely back off of everything and let her do as she wishes for now. I'm not sure it was even recommended that she come back to the house but instead stay with a friend. That may be best until she stabilizes again.

Please continue to pray for her wellbeing and guidance in her heart. Please pray for strength in mine to endure this trial, and please pray that God gets a hold of our marriage and uses all of this for his glory.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #15 on: Wed Oct 07, 2009 - 21:02:09 »
primary justice. people who attempt suicide in this way (and I doubt very much that she meant to take her own life)after they have been challenged,or given some sort of ultimatum, are very manipulative. They are really saying. "don't give me any ultimatums, or tell me how you feel, or do anything to upset me, or I will kill myself." That is the ultimate in control and manipulation. I have seen and experienced this in other very manipulative people in my own life. It is saying I cannot and will not deal with either your hurts, or you telling me that I cannot do what I want to do. It is like a child who screams and screams until they are sick when they have been told off or challenged in a way that they don't like.Of course she has got her way hasnt she, as now you are probably treating her with kid gloves. So, result 100% achieved for her.

It is a brilliant manipulative tool. You are now scared to do or say anything in case she does it again, therefore you are stuck in  no mans land with no were to go.You will be walking on egg shells with her now not wanting to do or say anything that you should be able to.Excuse me, who is having the affair here and who is the one being betrayed and hurt? By doing this, she has changed the focus from your deep hurts to herself and wanting you to see that she is hurt and not wanting to have to deal with what she is doing to you.It is unhealthy and very wrong behaviour.  She now has all your attention and sympathy when you are the one who has been deeply hurt.Very clever actually when you think about it.
 
You post said that she will be staying with friends, and that is a VERY good idea, and I think she needs to stay there (or at least away form you)until she either decides to leave this man and come back to you, or go to be with him.I would stay apart until she makes her mind up. If she chooses you then brilliant, if she chooses him, then she will have to live with the consequences, but she is the only one who can make that decision now.You cannot go on living this way with this betrayal day after day with her in the same house.
To have to live with a spouse who is having an affair is extremely painful and isn't right. you were right to do what you did despite her reaction.Don't let her actions make you stop being firm about this affair. YOU are the one being cheated on and not her.

leave her to God now. Don't blame yourself for what she did, She chose to do this, and she knew the effect it would have on you. She says she cannot leave him, well then she needs to separate permanently from you from now on until she sorts herself out and decides what she is going to do.

leave her to make her decision and just pray for her. that is all you can do now.
« Last Edit: Wed Oct 07, 2009 - 21:52:10 by chosenone »

Offline Norton

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #16 on: Wed Oct 07, 2009 - 21:41:54 »
There can be no reconcilliation or satisfactory relationship until she owns up to her mistake and sincerly expresses regret. Taking the pills is another method of shifting her quilt on to you. Someone caught in an affair always tries to make it the fault of the other spouse to justify themselves. "You monster see what you made me do". The crazy thing is that the wayward spouse really believes their own lie. Do not buy into it. Reconcilliation is the best solution, but she is a long way from that. Show her constant love and be patient, but do not accept her back until she repents. Don't try to do what even God is not willing to do.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #17 on: Wed Oct 07, 2009 - 22:08:35 »
primary justice
is this other man a christian? is he married? does he want to live with her?Does she want to go and be with him?
You are right in that there can never be any progress while she is still seeing him. Counselling is pointless if she is going to continue her affair.
It is up to her now to make the decision and chose him or the right way and come back to you. They cant be any half way house. Its all or nothing.

Offline primaryjustice

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #18 on: Thu Oct 08, 2009 - 15:20:22 »
Thank you for all of your replies once again. This bulletin board/thread have been a great source of comfort to me during this difficult time.

chosenone, your post has actually brought a change to my perspective. The more I look at it, the more I realize how manipulative this entire situation is, and it has opened my eyes to an unfortunate reality...my wife is trying to completely manipulate all of this in her favor, and it's actually quite sad. Seeing that has actually precipitated me to at least start looking at the last stage of grief, which is acceptance. I'm beginning to accept that my wife and I may never reconcile. While the roller coaster is still there, it looks more and more like this will end in separation and ultimately divorce, pending a major change of heart from her.

The situation stands as follows: she will most likely be discharged tomorrow, assuming they don't put her on a 72 hour forced hold. Since she has no place else to go, I have spoken with her counselor at the hospital and am willing to bring her back to the house, on the condition she immediately be given antidepressants. I will begin splitting our bills/assets and help her find another job with the goal of moving out. I've pretty much got the backing of my church on this and they support whatever decision I'm making while at the same time trying to be sure they're there for my wife, which I really appreciate. Once she finds another job (don't know if I mentioned, she's our church secretary. She will most likely not be able to continue her job as a result of this), I will work with her to move her out. At that point, I may give separation some time to see if there's any change of heart, or may file for divorce. I will definitely pray long and hard before makiing any binding decisions.

Thanks again for all of your prayers through this difficult time. I know she will eventually repent before God, which is what really matters. Once that happens, I'm sure her perspectives will change, however I may not be around anymore at that time. I pray for her well-being now and in the future.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #19 on: Thu Oct 08, 2009 - 16:34:02 »
I hope that you will be able to sort this out. Are there no relatives or friends that she could stay with? What about the other man?
You have to remember that anti depressants usually take up to 2 weeks to have any effect, so don't expect instant results. Is she actually depressed or was she simply being manipulative? Was she just feeling under pressure from you to leave?   
Maybe this episode will bring her to realise what she is doing, so it may end up being a good thing, who knows, but she has to finish it with this man whatever happens. A lot depends on her relationship with him. Will he see her through this? Does he wants her to be with him? is he married himself?Does she want to be with him all the time? Does she want to stay with you while still having this affair?
Lots of maybes and if and buts.A lot may depend on hm and what he wants out of this. 

 I am glad that you have been able to recognise that her actions were actually plain selfish and that you are NOT in any way responsible. I have various people in my life who have been (or are) like this, including my ex husband, who, after hurting me deeply and betraying me and our children, threatened to put his head in the gas oven when I wrote him ONE LETTER telling him of my feelings of deep hurt. You see he was like your wife, he didn't want to have to deal with the fact that he had hurt me.He didn't want to know about my hurts. VERY manipulative behaviour. Of course he would never have actually killed himself. It was just his way of telling me not to say anything at all to him about the way he had hurt us all so badly.
 
My husbands ex is also very controlling and manipulative as is my mother in law,using tears and other weapons to get their own way, so I can usually spot it a mile off. I refuse to deal with such behaviour anymore.

God Bless. I pray that God will continue to give you the strength to cope, and the wisdom to do the right thing.

Offline primaryjustice

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #20 on: Thu Oct 08, 2009 - 17:03:47 »
chosen: thanks again for your response to this. Unfortunately she has made it a habit of pushing away most family and keeping them at arms length. While I never really agreed with that, I supported her decision as my wife. There's an ex-bf she might be able to stay with, but I'm not so sure she's up for that. The other man has made it repeatedly clear, from what she says, the he does not want her in his house. He is divorced (surprisingly enough, had the exact same thing happen with his wife and another man) and has two kids (and is 21 years older than my wife / not sure if that matters). As far as what he/she want, I don't really know. She says originally the plan was for her to get another job, find another place, and then just kind of leave one day and date the other man. Again the more I look at this from a perspective of manipulation, the clearer things are starting to get. She has said that she knows they may not necessarily end up together, but thinks she should at least "try". I'm not really sure what the guy wants. He actually went to visit her at the hospital, for what that's worth. But you're right, absolutely no progress can be made in our marriage with him in the picture, and it sounds like she has no intention of letting go anytime soon. It's almost like a drug; if you even bring up removing him from the picture, she gets very anxious and defensive. It's almost sad.

I've told my church I'm open to them maybe finding another church member's house to crash at if she accepts it. She probably won't because she's in full rebellion against God and everything related to him, but it would definitely be better for us. I figured anti-depressants take a while to work, so I plan on spending as little time with my wife as possible while she's at home. All I will do is pray for her and keep taking her to God. The only way for reconciliation to begin is for her to first realize and accept that what she's doing is wrong, and be willing to reconcile with God first.

As always, thanks again for your comments.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #21 on: Thu Oct 08, 2009 - 17:19:40 »
wow that sounds weird. They are supposed to be so close and in love but he doesnt want her in his house???Doesnt she think that is weird? She is wanting to give up everything for a man who doesnt even seem to really want her. Is he a Christian?

The bit you write about her tunring againts the church seems very common among people who are having affairs. After all they really dont want to be challenged and told they are sinning so they stay away.My husbands ex left her church after the pastor told her that she had no reason to divorce her husband, and shouldnt be doing it, and that she had a hard heart.  Needless so say she got angry and left the church.  Just treat her with respect and fairness as my husband did with his ex, and as I did with mine, and God will bless you, BUT you dont have to put up with a wife who wont stop her affair. All that you can really do for her is pray that she will repent and turn away form her sin.

Offline primaryjustice

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #22 on: Thu Oct 08, 2009 - 17:40:18 »
Yeah, it's definitely a giant red flag in all of this...I guess he's mentioned putting her up in an apartment until she can get on her feet. I might push that more to see if I can call their bluff. But, I guess when you're blind to certain things, you tend to ignore obvious signs that something isn't right. I still wonder where his heart is in all of this.

I'll definitely try to show as much respect as possible. I'm distancing myself from her quite a bit to prepare myself for the challenge of having her back at home. We're going to have to sit down and work out the logistics of all of this. I plan on setting a date as well, because I can't have this be an open ended arrangement. That can end up in a major disaster.

I do thank God for this trial though; it's helping me grow in a number of ways, sometimes in leaps and bounds, and preparing me for what the future brings. My trust remains in Him!!!

Offline chosenone

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #23 on: Thu Oct 08, 2009 - 17:56:42 »
Well you are stronger spiritually that me, I havent got to the point of being able to thank Him for very painful times yet, but maybe I will get there one day!   Its always the hard times that drive us to Him though isnt it, and that is good. We NEED Him to show us the way.
I do wonder, if he is going to put her up in an appt, why she reacted so badly when you asked her to leave. I do fear for her if she does leave and if it doesnt work out for her with this man. What affect with that have?That has to be her decision though and there are of course always consequenses for sin.
God Bless

Offline haveahope

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #24 on: Thu Oct 08, 2009 - 21:44:58 »
PJ - so sorry you find yourself in this place.  It's lonely and confusing and painful.  I agree with whoever said this was a manipulative ploy.  The most selfish kind.  it's time to do the 180.  I will find that for you and post it.  It helps YOU.
  Take care of yourself.  Eat, hydrate, sleep - and then take care of yourself.  Do you have kids?

Your wife is in a 'fog' and isn't clearly thinking.  Have to go now, I will post more later.  You're in my prayers
Keep praying.
HAH

Offline phoebe

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #25 on: Thu Oct 08, 2009 - 23:47:12 »
It may be manipulative, but the rule of thumb is to always take seriously any threat of suicide.  There's a reason for the rule.  If suicide has been threatened, call a professional.  ASAP.  No one knows how serious the threat might be.



Offline chosenone

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #26 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 02:38:33 »
Quite often if a person attempts, or threatens to kill themsleves, they have no intention of actually doing it. I agree that sometimes they do, but each person is different.
When My mum killed herself 22 years ago she just did it. No talking, no half hearted attempts,no threats, no manipulation. She REALLY meant  to do it and there was no playing around.

I pray that your wife will see sense now that this has happened. God can use awful situations to bring us to our senses.If she still wants to leave after this then let her go.

I did wonder actually. you mentioned that this man is 21 years older than her, and also that she isnt especially close to her family. Could it be that she is wanting a father rather than a husband?
« Last Edit: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 04:32:41 by chosenone »

Offline phoebe

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #27 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 10:37:54 »
primary justice. people who attempt suicide in this way (and I doubt very much that she meant to take her own life)after they have been challenged,or given some sort of ultimatum, are very manipulative. They are really saying. "don't give me any ultimatums, or tell me how you feel, or do anything to upset me, or I will kill myself." That is the ultimate in control and manipulation. I have seen and experienced this in other very manipulative people in my own life. It is saying I cannot and will not deal with either your hurts, or you telling me that I cannot do what I want to do. It is like a child who screams and screams until they are sick when they have been told off or challenged in a way that they don't like.Of course she has got her way hasnt she, as now you are probably treating her with kid gloves. So, result 100% achieved for her.

...

Quite often if a person attempts, or threatens to kill themsleves, they have no intention of actually doing it. I agree that sometimes they do, but each person is different.
...

Yes, often they do.  But that isn't the call of any of us on any forum anywhere to make.  Only those with proper qualifications in contact with these two people need to be making these decisions.  And they do so with much more knowledge of the individuals, and always erring on the side of caution.

Being across the ocean doesn't exempt you from being responsible for your words on forums.  I don't know what the legal ramifications are, (got malpractice insurance?), but I wouldn't want to be the one to test that big water.

Please.  You may inadvertently be a participant in a suicide.  I know you don't want that.


Offline chosenone

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #28 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 11:06:56 »
primary justice. people who attempt suicide in this way (and I doubt very much that she meant to take her own life)after they have been challenged,or given some sort of ultimatum, are very manipulative. They are really saying. "don't give me any ultimatums, or tell me how you feel, or do anything to upset me, or I will kill myself." That is the ultimate in control and manipulation. I have seen and experienced this in other very manipulative people in my own life. It is saying I cannot and will not deal with either your hurts, or you telling me that I cannot do what I want to do. It is like a child who screams and screams until they are sick when they have been told off or challenged in a way that they don't like.Of course she has got her way hasnt she, as now you are probably treating her with kid gloves. So, result 100% achieved for her.

...

Quite often if a person attempts, or threatens to kill themsleves, they have no intention of actually doing it. I agree that sometimes they do, but each person is different.
...

Yes, often they do.  But that isn't the call of any of us on any forum anywhere to make.  Only those with proper qualifications in contact with these two people need to be making these decisions.  And they do so with much more knowledge of the individuals, and always erring on the side of caution.

Being across the ocean doesn't exempt you from being responsible for your words on forums.  I don't know what the legal ramifications are, (got malpractice insurance?), but I wouldn't want to be the one to test that big water.

Please.  You may inadvertently be a participant in a suicide.  I know you don't want that.



  wow, some of you Americans can be so obsessed with malpractice type stuff...........
« Last Edit: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 13:05:03 by chosenone »

Offline haveahope

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #29 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 11:55:36 »
PJ - here is a copy of the article I mentioned.  It can be tailored a little more to your specific situation, and of course you'd add prayer in great doses as well.  It may be you will need to wait a while as your wife is not stable.  I would say, if they don't keep her for a 72 hour hold, maybe they don't take her threat as serious either. 
 I understand the philosophy of never taking a threat seriously.  She ended up where she should have, in the hospital.  It is interesting that upon being given the ultimatum from you, she attempted this.  Has she been emotionally fragile in the past, before this mess?  I think that suicide is the ultimate selfish act, especially for a Christian. 
  I know my husband has often said, he just wishes the Lord would take him home, that would at the time seem preferable than feeling the pain.  But I kinda joke with him that he loves himself far too much to take his own life.  And he agrees.

 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

   1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
   2. No frequent phone calls.
   3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
   4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
   5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
   6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
   7. Don't ask for reassurances.
   8. Don't buy or give gifts.
   9. Don't schedule dates together.
  10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
  11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
  12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
  13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
  14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
  15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
  16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
  17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
  18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
  19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
  20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
  21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
  22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
  23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
  24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
  25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
  26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
  27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
  28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
  29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
  30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
  31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
  32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
  33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." 

I have heard testimony after testimony that these action saved marriages.  I know many of these suggestion had a profound effect on my wayward husband. 
 Hope it's helpful to some extent, if only to keep your sanity. ::smile::

"pray without ceasing" I Thes.5:17, " the effectual  fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much"  James 5:16

Offline primaryjustice

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #30 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 14:07:54 »
As always, thanks for the responses. I feel that I'm going to have to address a few things that were written a few posts up.

Regarding the discussion between Phoebe and Chosenone - I've dealt with suicide attempts in my family before, and I tend to agree that most people that bring it up want attention more than anything else. My sister tried it several times when she was a teenager. We are both in our twenties now and she can reflect on it and say that yeah, she didn't want to die, only to get attention and feel loved, since she felt none before. I don't feel that my sister wanted to really die, but she sure did end up getting a lot of attention, and not very good attention, after being locked up for trying. I've always believed that if someone really sets their mind on dying, they will be able to end their lives very quickly. There are a number of ways my wife could have taken her life that would have been quick, painless, and permanent. She chose a way that she already knew (she told me knew the stuff clears your system quick, she did her research apparently) would probably not kill her but get my attention pretty good.

Having said that, I regret not having taken her threats seriously. No one ever really knows if it's for attention or for real until afterwords, and I have no excuse for not having contacted a professional the first time she even mentioned this. I had no real way of being sure, and I should have, and will from now on contact someone the moment anyone goes there and I know they're serious. This will most likely precipitate a 72 hour hold, which will at least immediately stablize the situation. Also, I've realized my wife has been afraid of being placed on a hold, so I don't believe she will ever try this again. Bottom line, it's probably not real, but since we don't know, we have to err on the side of caution. That's where I stand on that.

Chosen - re: the apt, she says she doesn't want to be a "burden" on anyone, whatever that means. You hit the nail on the head about the father. She's always had that issue, since her father was abusive to her mother and she witnessed the abuse and his neglect as a small child. This is something she will hopefully finally start getting worked out in counseling and through prayer. Hopefully she'll be able to come out of it stronger.

HAH - It sounds like they've determined she's not suicidal anymore, and may never have really been. They've stopped their 24 hour watch on her, and she may be released as soon as they can make sure her liver is stable (hopefully no permanent liver damage, but it would be something to permanently remind her of the preciousness of this life).

Thank you so much for that list and advice. What I've begun doing is taking all of the different materials I'm reading and learning, and adapting them to work for the path I'm starting to take with all of this. I like those individual points as well as the concept overall of basically showing your spouse that you can live without them and having them realize what they're giving up. I am definitely going to add that to my "arsenal" so to speak, and will definitely report back on results as time progresses. While I'm not going to give up on our marriage, I'm also not going to let it define my identity. My identity is in Christ, not the marriage or my wife.

Thanks again to all. This forum and your advice continue to be a great source of hope and support during this very difficult time. Please keep my wife and myself in prayer, and yes, even the other man. All I can pray for him is that he come to know Christ, beyond that I can pray for nothing for him.


Offline haveahope

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #31 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 14:50:29 »
Sounds like you are at a good place.  Good for you.  I totally get the 'not giving up on your marriage' mindset.  There is always hope - In Christ.  Romans 8:28, for sure!!!

Do you have kids? ages?

HAH

Offline primaryjustice

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #32 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 15:18:01 »
HAH - While I've started wanting kids recently, right now I'm super thankful we don't have any. This whole thing would have an entire, completely different dimension if they were there. I have a friend who has gone through almost the exact same thing with his wife, but it's starting to push two years now because he is trying to do what's best for his child.

God knows what he's doing, and I completely understand now why we have no kids.

Offline avenger

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #33 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 20:48:15 »
Sir,
     My question to you is why you haven't already left this woman?  Why would you want to reconcile with someone capable of such destruction?  It is my opinion that she's evil....as is anyone who commits the ultimate betrayal.  As far as her "knowing the Bible" is concerned...that means nothing...Satan knows it better than all of us.
If it were me, I would leave and never look back...you deserve better.

Avenger

Offline primaryjustice

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Re: Wife is "head over heels" in love with another man - is there any hope?
« Reply #34 on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 - 22:19:41 »
Avenger - I appreciate your position on this, and you're right about Satan knowing God's word. The bible says in James 2:19 that "even the demons believe [that there is one God] and tremble. Additionally, I appreciate your sentiment that I deserve better. I do, however, have to disagree with you about my wife specifically being evil. One thing I am constantly being reminded of during all of this is that all humans are inherently evil. According to the bible, we are all born into sin and saved by grace through repentance and acceptance. She is no different than you or I in that respect. True, she has made a number of horrible mistakes and remains in unrepentant sin, but from what I've read in the bible, it's essentially my choice what to do at this point.

Looking at it from one perspective, I do have very clear biblical grounds for divorce. I could file the papers today and not lose any sleep at night thinking I'm being in any way disobedient to God. That is, however, a choice and not a commandment. There's a lot in the bible that indicates that God indeed does not like divorce, and feels it is not good, even when it is justified. So essentially from what I understand, either way is biblically correct.

That said, I also took a marriage for for better or worse. I am choosing to honor that vow regardless of whether she honors hers or not. I am not responsible for her behavior and poor choices, only my own. In reading back at how many times God forgave His people, despite the fact that they constantly kept falling, I have to accept that God forgives and loves unconditionally. Part of that, however, is that he did let them suffer the consequences of their actions, which in my case, my wife is now suffering and will continue to suffer for the indefinite future. That comes with the territory as a result of her choices. With the help of friends, family, and you all here on this forum, I have been able to see more of her behavior for what it is, and am adjusting mine to make sure I get out of the way and let her suffer the consequences of her action.

One final thought that's driving me...if we don't reconcile, I plan on marrying again in the future. I need to be able to show my future wife that my commitment to marriage is for a lifetime, and that in as much as I was able to, I did everything I could to save my marriage, and was unable to do so entirely as a result of an unrepentant spouse. I need my future children to know I will never, ever abandon them. That's one thing that drives me to do stay.

Thanks again for your reply avenger!