Will God ever forgive me for divorce?

[Mere Nick]

Nick--please don't judge me.  You know nothing about me more than I am on the verge of divorce.  Don't ever tell me I don't adore my kids.  Part of the problem in Christianity is that people put themselves on pedastols and condemn others.  They make non-believers and even believers feel talked down to and thus turn them off to faith all together.  Why do you think I posted on a CHRISTIAN board?  Because I don't need to hear people making stupid comments and acting like they are holier than thou.  Some people gave helpful input and posed questions that will make me explore my faith and commitments further.  Others, like yourself, make people regret even opening their lives.  Maybe you should think before you type.

Yes, I would die for my kids.

I'm not looking forward to divorce, if it happens.  There are questions about God and His Word that I don't know the answers too.  It's not just me that feels divorce is coming.  He have gone through Christian counseling and this isn't something that just went bad.  It's not a spat.  This has been in decline for about 6 years.  Neither of us are happy.  The only happiness we share is the time spent with our kids.

I also have an obligation to model a healthy relationship for my children.  My wife and I both are not able to currently do that.

Has anyone read the writings of Stephen Gola on marriage and divorce?  Just curious as to reactions.

Thanks for the helpful input.  None of you know me or owe me anything but I do appreciate the fellowship.

I used to be a kid.  The greatest thing my parents ever gave me were staying together.

Don't tell me you adore your kids when busting up the home is still on the table.

[HRoberson]

Gary,

Thanks for explaining.  I guess I just expected something different from a Christian site.  That's why I'm here.  I am trying to learn more and grow closer to God and was hoping to find Christians who know the Word and can provide insight without insult. 

I know I can expect many cut and dry opinions on here, but what I am going through is hard enough without the put downs or negativity.
Thanks again.

What exactly was it you were looking for from a Christian site? Permission to blatantly violate the will of God?

Everything that has been written to you applies equally to your wife.

Being unhappy for six years is not an excuse to divorce your wife (or she you). What that should tell you is that both of you aren't putting the work into your relationship that marriage requires - and that your spouse and your kids deserve.

But you're right, we don't know more about you than you've posted. What you've posted is:

I'm unhappy. I think my marriage is going to fail. No real reason, just that we're unhappy.

Is that OK with God?

The answer is No, it isn't. Christian board or no.

HR

[Coach C]

HR--You're correct.  I guess I was wondering if we ended up divorced, I know it is a sin.  I was told years ago it wouldn't be forgiven.  Others have told me it would.  I was . . . am . . .  searching.  My wife may end up pushing the divorce regardless.  I don't control her.  I am trying to prepare for the worst here.

I didn't open up what has gotten us to this point and all we have been through because of the types of people like Nick and BoringOld Guy. 

I can handle honesty, like yours.  I can't handle the arrogance of others that feel they have never sinned.

I know divorce is not right.  I know it is a sin.  I was wondering that if I end up all alone, what then??

I'm searching.  That's all.  Searching.  That's what led me to this site.

[Coach C]

Nick--Don't tell me about things you know nothing about.  You know ZERO about my kids.  Please don't respond anymore.  You are no help to me.  Find someone else to try to put down.

And we were all kids at one time.

[HRoberson]

I don't know that anyone has said anything different than what I have told you.

In a technical, legalistic, straining a gnat sense, if your wife divorces you, you're off the hook.

In a technical, legalistic, straining a gnat sense, if you divorce your wife, God will forgive you, assuming your life and heart are otherwise in line with Him.

But neither of those are the prefered outcomes, or considerations. Your first consideration is your wife and kids. Not what's going to happen to you.

However, from a broader perspective, it's time to start reviewing where you failed to do your part in the relationship. You could still pull this out and in any event, you need to figure that out before you begin another relationship.

Just because it looks hopeless doesn't mean it is, nor does it give us permission to give up. If your wife isn't happy today, and you're still married today, your job is to help make her happy.

There's an old saying that goes something like "God's made someone special for me." That's nonsense. God has made you special for someone else, and He expects us to live like it - all the time.

HR

[Mere Nick]

Nick--Don't tell me about things you know nothing about.  You know ZERO about my kids.  Please don't respond anymore.  You are no help to me.  Find someone else to try to put down.

And we were all kids at one time.

In short, I'm not telling you what you want to hear.  And, no, I haven't even begun to put you down.  And you say I know ZERO about your kids?  Ok.  You make a good point.  If they don't care if you and your wife get a divorce then I don't know about your kids.

[mandalee65]

Can I make some book recommendations?

Love and Respect by Emerson Eggerichs
Rekindling the Romance by Dennis & Barbara Rainey
For Women Only Shaunti Feldhahn (obviously for your wife)
For Men Only Shaunti & Jeff Feldhahn

[seekr]

You did ask if God would forgive you and the answer is "yes". I am in my 2nd marriage (almost 22 years now) and have learned about the grace of God and how He can do amazing things, including healing hearts. But sometimes we learn and grow through hard experiences.

I went through many hard things with the husband I am with now. We came close to splitting up many times, but I knew it was God holding us together, through the storm and the lack. In Collossians it says that Jesus holds all things together. I now have a love I thought could never have come out of this marriage. I learned to lean in and listen to God when I wanted to run. The running seemed inevitable to me, but God had a different plan so I waited on Him and trusted HIM. Remember too I was married once before and it didn't work out. I would just suggest keep seeking God in this and WAIT for Him to answer. He may even answer in whirlwind. That is trust and faith.

seekr

[janine]

Coach C --

I'm just thinking aloud here -- typing aloud, hah -- and it all applies to me before it goes out to you.  I am not judging you -- and even if it were my right to do so, I couldn't judge an apple pie contest with the tiny little stingy amount of detail you've given us.  Bear that in mind.

Sure, God can forgive all kinds of stuff.  Murder.  Rape.  Incest.  Theft.  Lying.  Even, gasp! shock! horror! DIVORCE.  You name it, he can forgive it.  Whether you are able to turn to Him with a truly repentant attitude is between you and Him.

But -- for now -- you're alive here in the fallen world, in your flesh, and you need to think more about dealing with those toward whom you bear responsibility. 

Sometimes a marriage isn't turning out like you'd pictured it, like you had hoped it would.

Sometimes all you and your spouse have left is a desire to keep "the nest" together, to raise up your children to be strong honorable people by being strong and honorable yourselves, even while you go through a long season of unhappiness.

That is not a cheap, small, less-valuable marriage,   Coach!  A marriage that does not "make you happy", but yet still takes care of important matters like raising up a family and helping them become functional people who can learn to find contentment even when they are not "happy", is not a less important, less valuable marriage.

Come and see me after you've been thru the cycles of a 25-year marriage, with its cold times and unhappy times and good times, then we'll talk about whether you can/should fight to stay in it. 

And quit trying to hand-pick who will answer you.  This is as close to being a public forum as you can get, realistically.  If you do not want to hear opinions from all sides go find someplace to ask your questions where they will give you cotton-fluff answers.

You will get only truth as each of us sees it, here.   That is what makes this a valuable group to belong to.

Do follow Lee/Admin's suggestion, call that number.  You and the wife doing one or more of those weekends couldn't hurt and might help a lot.

[mike]

Good advice, Janine.

Coach, listen to her.

[WileyClarkson]

Coach C

Janine gives good advice.  So does Admin!  I highly recommend calling Family Dynamics.  I've known a number of people who have used them (including my daughter and her husband) and it has helped to start the rebuilding process and bring forgiveness INSIDE the marriage for many couples where things looked really bad before attending.  I really hope you and your wife will try harder and not just give up on the marriage.

Now, my opinion on your situation is as follows (then I will answer your original question)!

Are you going to seek the divorce or is your wife -- and why (the real reason)?  What you have stated so far is not a good reason for even considering a divorce, IMO, especially since children are involved.  The way you come across is that it is your wife who is going to divorce you and you seem very resigned and ambivilant to this divorce.  That is a defeatist attitude, not to mention a wallowing in self pity attitude, and as long as you allow yourself to have those attitudes, then the chances of a divorce are, IMO, about 99%.  It is almost like you want it to happen but could care less about giving the marriage the full attention it really needs to reverse the direction and grow strong again.  I'm curious, are you by any chance a high school or college coach since you chose the name COACH C?  I have known several coaches who went through tough times (and divorce) in their marriage because of the time committment to the job.  If that is a big part of the problem, and you know it is a problem, then maybe the job needs to go by the wayside, at least for a while, and you and your wife work on the marriage.  If your job is more important than the marriage, then you have your priorities screwed up!

I have been married for 32 years.  It has not been the smoothest marriage at times but thank God we have worked through the past problems and continue to work through the problems as they come up.  I have worked shift work in nuclear security for 23+ years and believe me, shift work in the nuclear industry has caused more divorces than I count.  The divorce rate in nuclear shift workers is mind boggling!  Right now, I work evening shift and my wife works day shift.  We see each other for just a few minutes in the morning if I cut my sleep time to about 4.5 hours a night.  It takes real work and an agressive attitude towards making it work to keep a marriage going, along with an attitude that divorce just is not the answer to the problem.  What I am trying to point out is that, based on the information you have supplied so far, you and your wife are NOT giving the marriage the effort that both of you need to give to it before considering divorce court.  And yes, you also owe it to your kids to make the total commitment to making it work!

Now, one last comment, the answer to your main question.

Does God forgive divorce?  IMO,  yes he does --- on both sides regardless of the cause--even though he hates divorce!.  If there was no forgiveness for divorce, then we are all doomed because there is no forgiveness for any sins.  Sin is sin.  Big or little, it is sin.  So if divorce is unforgivable and you are doomed to Hell because of the divorce, then there is no forgiveness for any sin, IMO.  However, keep in mind that when we stand before him (and everyone who ever lived will), even though we have been forgiven for the sin we committed (divorce--whatever---big or little sin), I believe we will also be shown the consequences of our sin on others and, while forgiven for the sin, I believe we will not like what we are shown that the sin we committed caused in others--especially our children.  I think that will be a really heart wrenching time while coming to the realization of how much damage our sin did to our children and others while we never realized it because we were so wrapped up in ourselves. 

[Gimpygoo]

I am a teacher, and I can't tell you how much divorce screws up kids.  I doubt adults even consider what they go through:

-never having what they want at the house they're staying in that week.  A favorite toy, shirt, game is at their mom's...but they're at their dad's that week.  Too bad.

-Never ever having another holiday with both parents present at the same time.  And if a child of divorce marries another child of divorce, they have to spread themselves over 4 different places to celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc. 

-Never worshipping with both parents on the same pew with them again.  Some have to alternate churches every other week, so they never really feel a part of a religious community or develop close Christian buddies.

-They don't get to be with certain friends on certain days...again, they're at the wrong house and their best friend lives next door to the OTHER house.  Hopefully, they have a video game to keep them occupied on their off-weeks.

-I won't even get into those kids who have a parent move away after a divorce.  They're so fortunate to spend every summer out of state far from their friends, favorite hang-outs and activities.

Who cares if you're happy?    You made those kids with their mother (who you promised to stay with until death) and you owe it to them to at the least stick around until they're grown.  If not, your kids can join the long line of other kids at the counselor's office.   Then they can be unhappy instead of you. 

[tidbit]

Good points, Gimpygoo.

[Gimpygoo]

Here's another line of thought:

I'm not going to give you the usual Christian advice.  I've been married for almost 2 decades.  We get along pretty well, but we have to fight boredom.  If you haven't been fighting boredom, then it's no wonder you've lost the love, or at least friendship between the two of you.  Things to perk up your relationship:

-going out with another fun couple (who love each other).  Laugh, have a couple drinks, enjoy being a couple out in public.  Another couple can help "lubricate" the evening, allowing you to loosen up and just have fun with your wife.  Don't choose some boring super-Christians....choose someone who will really rev up your evening with your wife.  If you don't have any friends, this might be a big part of your problem.

-Have sex somewhere different.  Rev it up.  Talk dirty.  Do something crazy.  After 10 years, the sweet, gentle normal sex gets a little old.  I won't go into any more detail, but if you're bored, so is she.  But sometimes the guy has to make the first move in that direction...we woman have been trained that a nice Christian woman would NEVER initiate this kind of stuff (which is why I think so many Christian men get bored, get into pornography, etc.  Christian married sex is just boring, but it's what we sisters think is an 'acceptable act of marriage"     ) If you lead, I'll bet she follows.

-Do you talk to her as you would a friend?  Email her during the day?  Share something bizarre that you witnessed at work or at McDonald's?  My husband and I are best friends, even when we're not madly in love.  Why?  We talk all the time about crazy stuff.

-Do you hole up after dinner playing your XBox, or do you stick around to help with kitchen duty?  When was the last time you cuddled on the couch to watch a movie?  Do you rush in the door after work and give her a big hug and kiss?  

Counseling is great, but hours of dry converstion won't do you any good by itself.  

Gimpy

[boringoldguy]

Looks like the Coach ran for cover when he didn't find what he wanted (permission) here.