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Author Topic: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?  (Read 12815 times)

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Offline Cally

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnqcSVhbVg&feature=context&context=G29b0e5aRVAAAAAAAAAA[/youtube]

Atheists have done a better job pointing out the double-standards about the way women are treated like an untouchable holy class in this culture while a man can be at the butt of hateful sentiments without anybody batting an eye.

Obviously the point is that a group of men making a joke about a woman's genitalia being similarly mutilated would be met with an onslaught of feminists and chivalrous men alike. This talk show DID get pounded hard enough to get that "apology" in response, but that's kind of a new development in the culture--hence the reason these women thought they could get away with that.

Are you (Christian men) accustomed to putting up with this? Is this getting mistaken for a chivalrous gesture (like a "real man" should just put up with anything she dishes out)?

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Offline johndoo

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jan 02, 2012 - 04:23:57 »
There are books out that talk about how modern church culture caters to women and modern Christianity can be feminized.

My Protestant denomination does not allow adult women to teach in mixed groups of adults.  That being said, we are quick to point to the scripture that men and women are equal in the sight of God.   So I don't see that one gender is getting "slammed".

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jan 02, 2012 - 04:23:57 »

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #2 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 19:43:47 »
^Well yeah that's a forgone conclusion to me. But I'm using this story as an example to ask, why do I find that Christian men are the last men to figure out that there's a time to protect themselves from (certain) women?

The women on that talk show had no idea that a legion of men would jump down their throats for their awful girl-party of misandry on TV--because men usually don't retaliate like they did in this case.

It just absolutely mystifies me why men--especially "Christian" men--are so accustomed to putting up with it.

Or of course, in these "church buildings," perhaps they are simply leaving (male church attendance going down . . .) from a place that not only fails to protect them, but forbids them to protect themselves.
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 00:16:34 by Cally »

Offline musician_for_God

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 11:46:28 »
Or of course, in these "church buildings," perhaps they are simply leaving (male church attendance going down . . .) from a place that not only fails to protect them, but forbids them to protect themselves.

Ya, and the perverse conclusion often implied by dwindling male church attendance is that men just aren't as holy as women are.  (I can't help but smirk as I type this. I know too much about women not to.  ::noworries:: )
We in the West live in a feminized culture as far as popular ideas and doctrines go.  It's sad that hatred of men is so commonplace and unrebuked that a lot of such women probably aren't aware that their hate of men is even wrong.

I have no problem with the video, though; if those women are ready to be drugged and have their own genetalia ground up and utterly destroyed against their wills by jaded ex-lovers, then they are free to praise that act as much as they want.   ::shrug::  Savage and brutal crimes clearly make for great entertainment as far as these ladies -- uh, women -- are concerned, so I'm sure they're perfectly prepared to be savagely violated and destroyed, right?

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 11:46:28 »
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Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 16:57:37 »
^But what this video beautifully points out is this:

Those men who quit going to church and conform less to a society that hates them are the sorts that come out of hiding and took those women on that talk show by surprise!

Who knew?

Scattered out there are men who realized that so many mixed gatherings (i.e. male and female such as "church") all managed to learn how to love themselves enough to finally stick up for themselves, break out of the cruel tricks of "male chivalry" and showed no restraint at all for defending themselves against women.

The self-centered language I hear is sickening. I hear sexual purity spoken to men like "respect women." Where is that in the Bible? Who warns us men that a "prostitute reduces you to a piece of bread." (Proverbs 6:26)

No one! Because we've ALREADY been reduced to pieces of bread!

Who tells men to respect their bodies as temples of the Holy Spirit? We're told that women are beautiful things not to be defiled--I'd say good for women on that one. But the men need to know they are also fearfully and wonderfully made, and not be intimidated by "beautiful women."

And the women who protest their so-called "limitations" of not being allowed to teach men and such, etc. How often do you hear the complainers lament all the things men (allegedly) miss out on from not having women "serve" them from leadership positions? I've heard it occasionally, I'll admit, but usually it all comes back to another case of women demanding men to do something for them (i.e. letting them have authority, being an attentive and obedience audience I suppose) twisting the idea of "service" in the most disgusting way imaginable.

All of that thinking is female-centric. These crowds are a man-hater's paradise. You can barely ever find women with any mind for the interests of men. Except, women out in the world looking for a good husband (you know, that old joke about wanting the "bad guy" instead of the "nice guy" which is actually a pushover and a coward) are becoming forced to come around to appealing to men who respect themselves.

But just the fact that so few women can look at things like that video and see it as a violation of justice while constantly "educating" men on how to treat them, well, that says an awful lot. There's even a Facebook page with the same attitudes saying that that woman should be freed from prison!

I really think some guys need to learn self-defense with the entities that really do mean them harm. I think it's actually starting to happen, and it's taking people by surprise.

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 16:57:37 »



Offline DaveW

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #5 on: Tue Jan 31, 2012 - 12:26:16 »
I grew up in an era where some guy could make a random joke about doing something like that to a woman and no one would ever give it a second thought. One co-worker wanted to cure my virginity by forcing his gf to have sex with me. (I politely declined)

Then women started coming into the workplace (claiming they did not want to change anything) but found the work environment SO HOSTILE that it had to change. 

Now apparently the shoe is on the other foot. The fact is that girl culture can be as harsh and sexist as guy culture used to be.  Is that good or godly? No.  But it is the world.  The world cannot be good or godly. By definition they don't have God.

I do not know who called to complain, if it was men or women.  If it was men, i would say only one thing: remember what it was like with the guys back in the 1960s and early 70s and then grow a pair.

We dished it out and we can't take it?

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jan 31, 2012 - 15:27:21 »
I grew up in an era where some guy could make a random joke about doing something like that to a woman and no one would ever give it a second thought. One co-worker wanted to cure my virginity by forcing his gf to have sex with me. (I politely declined)

Then women started coming into the workplace (claiming they did not want to change anything) but found the work environment SO HOSTILE that it had to change. 

Now apparently the shoe is on the other foot. The fact is that girl culture can be as harsh and sexist as guy culture used to be.  Is that good or godly? No.  But it is the world.  The world cannot be good or godly. By definition they don't have God.

I do not know who called to complain, if it was men or women.  If it was men, i would say only one thing: remember what it was like with the guys back in the 1960s and early 70s and then grow a pair.

We dished it out and we can't take it?

First of all, with equality comes the death of male chivalry--because that ain't equality. That is the world we live in today. Now it's come down to self-defense. If I were to adhere to a sense of justice based on "equal treatment," then I don't have time on my hands to concern myself with women's interests; this is just an example of women grossly going against "equality" and leaving it to men to make sure they receive the same sort of justice--there are many, many more.

I wasn't around during the sixties (born in the 80's) and I couldn't care less about the dreaded history of things--the rule of TODAY is equality. Besides which, I don't think this kind of things showed up on television back in the sixties--men and women both have always been there, done that with this sort of talk amongst themselves.

I believe today's world is facing the fact that, with women pursuing equality, they must lose the perks that they may have been taking for granted. I find that church populations suffer the worst of both worlds (see that unspeakable film "Fireproof" if you want an example): there's this 200% male responsibility to PROVIDE "equality" (or rather the illusion of it, and the perks), and do all the old-school usual stuff, be considerate and fluffy . . . don't even think about deserving anything in return. No, it's not ALL like that, but I believe that's pervasive in today's interactions. I think the new generation especially is going to change that because these ideas are unsustainable (men simply aren't so strong as to be able to provide like that).

Yep, I'm on my soapbox. The younger generation tends to kick this in gear more, but responding to culture is different today.

Offline Akaroa

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #7 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 03:19:45 »
Hmmm. Let's put this thread through the Lurleen and Hank test:

"Lurleen!" Sniffs. "Don' you go talkin' bout no equality any more, y'hear. There's this gal on the Internet who's sayed it gone way too far. And that's a gal talkin'! My tea ready yet?" Spits.

"Hank, don't you go talkin' all horse manure to me, you ol' fool," croakes from the kitchen. "The internet!" Scoffs. "I oughta get yo' mammy to give you a wopping. You were taught respect in this god-lovin' family. If you wanna lordy, lordy it all over me you can get you're on dang food t'night!" There's the clink of a dropping fork, footsteps through the back door, and from somewhere a sheep baaed.

"Hands a Pohutukawa to the next poster"

Offline Carwhisperer

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #8 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 10:43:23 »
I didn't watch the video but I have a couple of ideas after having been married for 17 years and being the father of a 14 year old daughter. I am dating now and have found that there are Christian (or at least church going) women out there who are more or less desparate to find a man. They are sweet and kind and don't hate men.

On the other hand I think the male gender has a reputation for  a reason. Picture in your mind a child molester. Are you picturing a man or woman? A rapist. Man or woman? Bank robber. Man or woman? A student who steals his teacher's password and sells grades to his comrades (i'm a teacher and this happened to me). Boy or girl? Someone who cheats on their spouse. I'll admit that women are probably catching up here but I think men still have the ege. Someone who beats their spouse. Man or woman?

Do you get my point? Don't be vindictive or hateful or resentful toward a few females who may have had bad experiences in their past which have shaped their view of our gender. But do be a man and stand up for what is right and look for ways to love and support females who are, at least physically, weaker than us.

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #9 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 11:03:37 »
I didn't watch the video but I have a couple of ideas after having been married for 17 years and being the father of a 14 year old daughter. I am dating now and have found that there are Christian (or at least church going) women out there who are more or less desparate to find a man. They are sweet and kind and don't hate men.

On the other hand I think the male gender has a reputation for  a reason. Picture in your mind a child molester. Are you picturing a man or woman? A rapist. Man or woman? Bank robber. Man or woman? A student who steals his teacher's password and sells grades to his comrades (i'm a teacher and this happened to me). Boy or girl? Someone who cheats on their spouse. I'll admit that women are probably catching up here but I think men still have the ege. Someone who beats their spouse. Man or woman?

Do you get my point? Don't be vindictive or hateful or resentful toward a few females who may have had bad experiences in their past which have shaped their view of our gender. But do be a man and stand up for what is right and look for ways to love and support females who are, at least physically, weaker than us.

The only child molester who affected me indirectly was a woman who molested a (male) friend of mine as he was a child. She went completely unpunished, which, to me, suggests that there may be MANY like her who don't show up in statistics or anecdotes to get it through people's heads that it happens as frequently as it really does. My experience with abusive spouses or family members? I'd say it's about equal.

And yet, yes, people (such as in my family) still enjoy the male villain archetypes. I think men tend to be more audacious which leads to there sins making more of a shock and an impact, but then, think about abortions for example. I consider it murder, but it doesn't take the same kind of audacity as to look a human being in the eye and end his life. It's just her simple decision, a lack of valuing a life and a willingness for violence to be done to it rather than exerting the force necessary for it to happen on her own. (Furthermore, there are times in law, war and justice when it is rightly time to do such a thing).

And men cheat more than women? I never understood that one. If these men are cheating with women, how can men and women cheating not be equal in numbers? Does the same smaller number of women "get around" to all these men that cheat, making the number of men who cheat higher than the number of women?

Men suffer homelessness more than women. They also suffer more work-related deaths. If men are stronger than women, it doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things.

Offline Carwhisperer

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #10 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 11:58:50 »
You make some good points but I still think men have the edge when it comes to being evil.

But the Bible does say to treat women as the weaker vessel. I have never been in a relationship with a woman that isn't sweet and kind. Not that I haven't met any. 15 years ago I had a neighbor whose wife used to yell at him from across the street to get home when he and I were hanging out for just a few minutes. But the girls I dated before I got married, my ex wife, the girls I've dated since and my current girlfriend have all been sweet, even the ones who dumped me. That is not a statistically sound sample and I don't know how it would have gone if some of those relationships had continued but that is about 35 womenses all together.

I guess I am saying maybe you would experience less frustration if you would try to let this go a little. Enjoy the female gender (I don't mean physically, although by all means do that too within the bounds of marriage). I miss having a female presence when I'm living the batchelor life. I really need a girl to tell me what color to paint the wall, what kind of curtains to buy, help me shop for clothers so I don't look like  nerd. When there is no significant other my 14 year old daughter is such a blessing with those sorts of things.

I guess I'm also saying try not to be an angry man, especially about things over which you have no control. It's not attractive and its not a good way to make friends.

My two cents.

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #11 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 19:13:17 »
You make some good points but I still think men have the edge when it comes to being evil.

But the Bible does say to treat women as the weaker vessel. I have never been in a relationship with a woman that isn't sweet and kind. Not that I haven't met any. 15 years ago I had a neighbor whose wife used to yell at him from across the street to get home when he and I were hanging out for just a few minutes. But the girls I dated before I got married, my ex wife, the girls I've dated since and my current girlfriend have all been sweet, even the ones who dumped me. That is not a statistically sound sample and I don't know how it would have gone if some of those relationships had continued but that is about 35 womenses all together.

I guess I am saying maybe you would experience less frustration if you would try to let this go a little. Enjoy the female gender (I don't mean physically, although by all means do that too within the bounds of marriage). I miss having a female presence when I'm living the batchelor life. I really need a girl to tell me what color to paint the wall, what kind of curtains to buy, help me shop for clothers so I don't look like  nerd. When there is no significant other my 14 year old daughter is such a blessing with those sorts of things.

I guess I'm also saying try not to be an angry man, especially about things over which you have no control. It's not attractive and its not a good way to make friends.

My two cents.

To "let something go" suggests that it's a situation doesn't really exist, but I'm just making it exist by deciding to be angry about it. That's not the case. There are a lot of things out there that I can't directly control, but I do need to respond appropriately.

I gather that a lot of men just like to hate themselves, what with this "we're men we deserve it" or "we can take it, it's our cross to bear." To each his own I guess, but that's not for me. Years ago I thought I was the only young man in the world like that, but guys like me who are sick of things like this (the hypocrisies, for which the video I posted makes a good example) are really starting to come out of the woodwork. I find those kinds of men admirable, personally.

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #12 on: Wed Feb 22, 2012 - 11:46:49 »
Quote
I guess I am saying maybe you would experience less frustration if you would try to let this go a little.

yeah... this was really uncalled for.  that is just so condescending. 

As far as the question of the topic is concerned, "Does modern Christianity EVER..."

There is not "modern" christianity and "ancient" or "historical" christianity.  There is only christianity.  It never changes. 
The christians may change the doctrine on their own accord, but then they are no longer practicing christianity:

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Now as far as Feminism is concerned, it is anything but Pro feminine.  It is Anti-Feminine. 

The devil wants it to be so that feminity is extinct; so that no one would be able to recognize it if they saw it. 

Feminism hates Femininity thus Feminists are the Real Woman Haters.  With that in mind, are there any men here that consider themselves Feminists? 

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #13 on: Wed Feb 22, 2012 - 12:31:30 »
As far as the question of the topic is concerned, "Does modern Christianity EVER..."

There is not "modern" christianity and "ancient" or "historical" christianity.  There is only christianity.  It never changes.  
So which one is the "true" christianity - the Temple based CHurch in Jerusalem under James in the book of Acts, The Catholic church of the Middle Ages or the Fundamentalist Baptists in 2012 USA?
Quote
Now as far as Feminism is concerned, it is anything but Pro feminine.  It is Anti-Feminine.  

Feminism hates Femininity thus Feminists are the Real Woman Haters.  With that in mind, are there any men here that consider themselves Feminists?
 
The reason feminism hates "femininity" is because it is attractive to men and that is exactly what they DON'T want - anything to do with men. They consider the whole idea to be a male construct.  

"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Irina Dunn/Gloria Steinem.
"Women's chains have been forged by men, not by anatomy."  Estelle R. Ramey
"If all men are born free, how is it that all women are born slaves?"  Mary Astell
"Men are irrelevant.  Women are happy or unhappy, fulfilled or unfulfilled, and it has nothing to do with men."  Fay Weldon


They envision a world free from male humans and have funded (in the past anyway) research into cloning and non-disjunction type of reproduction to rid the world of their dreaded Y chromosome.  

For a man to be a true feminist, he would have to be suicidal. Not unlike Jewish Nazis or black KKK members.

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #14 on: Thu Feb 23, 2012 - 13:38:19 »
As far as the question of the topic is concerned, "Does modern Christianity EVER..."

There is not "modern" christianity and "ancient" or "historical" christianity.  There is only christianity.  It never changes.  
So which one is the "true" christianity - the Temple based CHurch in Jerusalem under James in the book of Acts, The Catholic church of the Middle Ages or the Fundamentalist Baptists in 2012 USA?
Quote
Now as far as Feminism is concerned, it is anything but Pro feminine.  It is Anti-Feminine.  

Feminism hates Femininity thus Feminists are the Real Woman Haters.  With that in mind, are there any men here that consider themselves Feminists?
 
The reason feminism hates "femininity" is because it is attractive to men and that is exactly what they DON'T want - anything to do with men. They consider the whole idea to be a male construct.  

"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Irina Dunn/Gloria Steinem.
"Women's chains have been forged by men, not by anatomy."  Estelle R. Ramey
"If all men are born free, how is it that all women are born slaves?"  Mary Astell
"Men are irrelevant.  Women are happy or unhappy, fulfilled or unfulfilled, and it has nothing to do with men."  Fay Weldon


They envision a world free from male humans and have funded (in the past anyway) research into cloning and non-disjunction type of reproduction to rid the world of their dreaded Y chromosome.  

For a man to be a true feminist, he would have to be suicidal. Not unlike Jewish Nazis or black KKK members.

Here's a thought for you though, since I noticed earlier on this thread you used the term "the world." So I'll propose this in commonplace terms and then in Christianese:

Nazis are not MAINSTREAM.

KKK is not MAINSTREAM.

FEMINISM IS MAINSTREAM. Not on the fringe. It's also influenced the law, which is something way too many Christians overlook when they wonder what's going on with men in today's culture (why they are the way they are, like that phrase "stepping up" that I'm hearing lately)--to go a little further down that road, temporarily, a lot of people don't realize that if men were to "step up" and start acting like men, the very first thing they need to do is confront that mainstream, dominant ideology that seeks to punish them for the good, necessary things about who they are. Somehow people ignore the existence of feminism and all the damage it does to men while thinking men should put out more.

So here's the Christianese version: you can be part of "the world" and easily not a nazi or kkk. But not being a feminist--or at least not having some congruence with its beliefs, even consciously--is much less common. It's very easy to run into one--again, including those influenced by feminism. There isn't nearly the vehement opposition to it as to other hate groups, however, I repeat, I'm finding myself less and less lonely in this regard the older I get. MAN are some guys out there mad about this. And I'm tying this together because my guess is you won't find those guys in the average church.

Oh, and it must be said, lots of women are fiercely opposed to it as a hate group too. (ps. didn't mean this thread to be about feminism per se, but I that goes hand-in-hand).
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 23, 2012 - 13:47:46 by Cally »

Offline Carwhisperer

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #15 on: Thu Feb 23, 2012 - 18:57:17 »
So how does this affect you on a daily basis? I think the number of feminists is pretty small. In my experience the vast majority of women generally buy into the traditional male-female role. They try to look pretty, like to bake you cookies, talk sweet, rub your back. Maybe a big part of the problem is that many of the feminist women have positions of power or influence (Like Secretary of State Clinton or the women in the video you linked)? But maybe they are not as influential as you/they think they are?

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #16 on: Fri Feb 24, 2012 - 15:37:35 »
There are books out that talk about how modern church culture caters to women and modern Christianity can be feminized.

My Protestant denomination does not allow adult women to teach in mixed groups of adults.  That being said, we are quick to point to the scripture that men and women are equal in the sight of God.   So I don't see that one gender is getting "slammed".

I know of no scripture that says men and women are equal.  I know of no scripture that says that all people or equal or that God loves all people equally.

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #17 on: Fri Feb 24, 2012 - 16:03:33 »
We live in a culture where the deck is stacked against men.

More wives than men file for divorces.  Women file the majority of 'no-fault' divorces.  It seems like it is pretty easy to take half, and about 5 days a week of time with the kids. 

In the Old Testament, God didn't allow women to initiate divorces.

There are scholarships for women, 'minority' scholarships, even though there are more women in college than boys nowadays. 

Women are more likely to hit their partners, I heard from one YouTube video which actually sited the video.  It is more likely to be an on-going thing.  Men who hit are more likely to do it as a one-off thing.  If a man calls the police for a domestic violence case, it is more likely that he will be arrested. 

A woman can accuse a man of sexual harassment, rape, or any number of things.  His reputation is ruined.  A man can accuse a woman, and people laugh at him. 

The thing that doesn't make sense is this, there are more men than women in the government making the laws.  Sure, women vote, but there are a lot of subtle things that can be done.

Memphis Dwight

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #18 on: Fri Feb 24, 2012 - 19:42:04 »
It is a good thing that this topic was started.  Thanks to Cally. 

There are more and more women that are rejecting the brainwashing.  The problem is that the churches make and shape public opinion more than they want to admit and yet most churches are not being very helpful in this matter.  One could say that the churches are making the matter worse.

What I mean is that people are beginning to awaken.  We are not the same folks we were back in the 1940s when men were expected to just go volunteer for any and every war and get themselves killed.  Back then, it was considered manly to be that way.  And chivalry was actually working against men. 

Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of people that buy into and promote a particular ideology that calls for both equality and chivalry at the same time. 

What is really dishonorable is the 'friendly' version of feminism.  It is much more honest to be a militant feminist than to be one of the Sarah Palin/Patricia Heaton types. 

Do you know what I mean? 

In other words, the type of feminist that wants to be outfront, outspoken, not a stay at home mom, yet rejects the shrill Hillary Clinton stereotype is the worse kind of feminist. 

Its just like the Apostle Paul said in his first letter to the Corinthian church:  Its better for a woman to shave her head bald than to just have short hair. 

If a woman considers it to be an insult to be a keeper at home, then she should go in the total opposite direction and completely throw off all signs of femininity.   

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #19 on: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 11:57:15 »
Memphis Dwight and Link, you guys sound amazingly on the ball.

A friend of mine, raised Hindi but has been visiting churches for the last few years (not yet a professing Christian) put it this way, working on his second Master's in business: church is essentially a business. People that come to churches are indeed hungry for truth and learning, not realizing that they themselves are the ones making them what they are--that is, churches aren't "teaching" nearly as much as they're selling a product, a "message" that will have the most mainstream appeal possible among its niche audience.

A business approach.

As Memphis Dwight said again, there's that hypocrisy of "chivalry" plus "equality." First, men hear this litany about all the disadvantages of women and cultures and their "oppression" and such, therefore they want equality. But what that REALLY means is that men have to endure a double burden in order to SIMULATE that equal world which isn't really without the old-school chivalrous treatment. Women tend very much not to seek after men's jobs that are dangerous and low on prestige and $$$. Their motivations never were for getting a job done or serving others, it was the money and the glory--they want to be the president, a war hero, a recognized scientist, not a coal miner or a heavy construction worker! Men, on the other hand, had better keep doing their old-school duties, or that whole world that is created for them will fall apart.

And now men are hurting like crazy for trying to carry them in baskets in this unprecedented fashion. Ironically, that "equal" world exists only because of male chivalry--just gotta give her what she wants. Ironically, male chivalry looks down on women and treats them like they're too stupid to be held accountable or put to their own sort of work. Just give it all to her. She can't help it. Male chivalry leads to a vulnerability to women--even when they claim they want equality!
« Last Edit: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 12:04:29 by Cally »

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #20 on: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 12:09:31 »
We live in a culture where the deck is stacked against men.

More wives than men file for divorces.  Women file the majority of 'no-fault' divorces.  It seems like it is pretty easy to take half, and about 5 days a week of time with the kids. 

In the Old Testament, God didn't allow women to initiate divorces.

There are scholarships for women, 'minority' scholarships, even though there are more women in college than boys nowadays. 

Women are more likely to hit their partners, I heard from one YouTube video which actually sited the video.  It is more likely to be an on-going thing.  Men who hit are more likely to do it as a one-off thing.  If a man calls the police for a domestic violence case, it is more likely that he will be arrested. 

A woman can accuse a man of sexual harassment, rape, or any number of things.  His reputation is ruined.  A man can accuse a woman, and people laugh at him. 

The thing that doesn't make sense is this, there are more men than women in the government making the laws.  Sure, women vote, but there are a lot of subtle things that can be done.

You know what the retort is to that issue about school? Feminists will still complain that men get higher wages (even though there are FAR more homeless men than women).

School is light-years away from the working world. In school, you're rewarded for "following the rules," not innovation, not ambition, not thinking beyond convention, but those are the things that get you promoted and running businesses. I imagine maybe some women are saying "I'm doing everything right, how come I'm not getting promoted? It's that glass ceiling!" No, it's because the qualities you need to reach higher positions are extremely male traits for which boys and young men will be punished in school.

In effect, then, schools have gone down the toilet because of these accommodations in my assessment (though I question their validity regardless). School is definitely a girl's world, made tat way deliberately.

Offline Carwhisperer

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #21 on: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 12:45:07 »
We live in a culture where the deck is stacked against men.

More wives than men file for divorces.  Women file the majority of 'no-fault' divorces.  It seems like it is pretty easy to take half, and about 5 days a week of time with the kids.  

In the Old Testament, God didn't allow women to initiate divorces.

There are scholarships for women, 'minority' scholarships, even though there are more women in college than boys nowadays.  

Women are more likely to hit their partners, I heard from one YouTube video which actually sited the video.  It is more likely to be an on-going thing.  Men who hit are more likely to do it as a one-off thing.  If a man calls the police for a domestic violence case, it is more likely that he will be arrested.  

A woman can accuse a man of sexual harassment, rape, or any number of things.  His reputation is ruined.  A man can accuse a woman, and people laugh at him.  

The thing that doesn't make sense is this, there are more men than women in the government making the laws.  Sure, women vote, but there are a lot of subtle things that can be done.

You know what the retort is to that issue about school? Feminists will still complain that men get higher wages (even though there are FAR more homeless men than women).

School is light-years away from the working world. In school, you're rewarded for "following the rules," not innovation, not ambition, not thinking beyond convention, but those are the things that get you promoted and running businesses. I imagine maybe some women are saying "I'm doing everything right, how come I'm not getting promoted? It's that glass ceiling!" No, it's because the qualities you need to reach higher positions are extremely male traits for which boys and young men will be punished in school.

In effect, then, schools have gone down the toilet because of these accommodations in my assessment (though I question their validity regardless). School is definitely a girl's world, made tat way deliberately.

When I read these posts by Cally and also Memphis Dwight I hear bitterness. Is this the way Christ wants us act/think? To resent women?

Cally, are you married or do you have a girlfriend?
« Last Edit: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 13:25:44 by Carwhisperer »

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #22 on: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 15:02:58 »
^Nah, not married, no girlfriend.

I don't resent women and you'd be surprised that there are women out there who agree with everything some of us have said. It's not resentment, but a reality about things going on.

In fact, a lot of times I can get indignant with other men (indirectly) about how they think of women in different ways. I asked some men about liking women wearing high heels, they said they love it, and I said "but it's SO bad for them!" It'll do terrible things to their health in the long run. Same thing with lots of different kinds of make-up.

I certainly appreciate femininity when I come across it. Admittedly, I kind of quit looking for it because I find it rather dangerous to do so. Lots of ladies are far away from the "feminist" schools of thought, hut the danger simply is that people don't respond to hostility from women to men the same way they do from men to women.

Hence, it's dangerous out there. The video I posted is just an example. A while back I posted a study done that showed how people responded differently to a woman beating up a man from a man beating up a woman. Whoever is physically stronger is totally irrelevant when you're under a social law in which a woman can effectively do pretty much anything she wants to you.

But it IS changing, I think.

To reiterate my intent, I did start this thread to see how the men around here would react on this subject.

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #23 on: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 15:16:15 »
Carwhisperer:
Quote
When I read these posts by Cally and also Memphis Dwight I hear bitterness. Is this the way Christ wants us act/think? To resent women?
Are you comparing yourself to Christ?

Offline Carwhisperer

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #24 on: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 16:07:57 »
I see Cally. I don't think your statements are completely unfounded.

I sure hope I'm not comparing myself to Christ. I know I have a long way to go before I might be called Christ-like. But I think Jesus would be more loving and kind and not get embroiled in an us versus them battle on this issue.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #25 on: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 17:45:21 »
Memphis D said:
Quote
What is really dishonorable is the 'friendly' version of feminism.  It is much more honest to be a militant feminist than to be one of the Sarah Palin/Patricia Heaton types.

Do you know what I mean?

In other words, the type of feminist that wants to be outfront, outspoken, not a stay at home mom, yet rejects the shrill Hillary Clinton stereotype is the worse kind of feminist. 

And here I thought Hillary was the friendly feminist.  One who forgave her husband's infidelity and still kept her head held high.

So where do you place the Gloria Steinems and Jill Irelands who want to kill off men?

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #26 on: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 21:27:38 »
I see Cally. I don't think your statements are completely unfounded.

I sure hope I'm not comparing myself to Christ. I know I have a long way to go before I might be called Christ-like. But I think Jesus would be more loving and kind and not get embroiled in an us versus them battle on this issue.

Yes and I would say feminism attempts to make it sound like we have a "male vs. female" battle, but introduce a woman who believes in putting on a submissive manner (and depending on the type of feminist, opposes abortion) and you'll very quickly see that "male versus female" is absolutely not what we have on our hands.

I get concerned because what men mostly get are complaints and very little in the way of sympathy. For example, someone with an old-school view of society thinks it's shameful for men not to be working, and he or she won't think for two seconds that the REASON why we have dads who aren't the breadwinner to such a high degree is because feminism succeeded in putting equal (or at least nearly equal) women in the workforce. (That's a different discussion, but I'll leave it at that)

People will complain about not treating women "equally."

Others complain about men not being men.

Complain, complain, complain. I don't know too many women who lack the ability to complain about a man, but I get highly suspicious of a VERY large number of them when you have double standards like this video I posted and I can't see anywhere near the righteous indignation from them as when they feel they are mistreated or treated unjustly. In fact, a lot of women made a facebook page for having that woman (who is facing a life sentence in prison) released and some even commending her actions or "something must have brought it on" or whatever. Once again, I find all of these kinds of things common among the churchgoer population.

I am trying to untangle this mess. And what I'm trying to get at here is understand where other men come from.
« Last Edit: Sat Feb 25, 2012 - 21:48:32 by Cally »

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #27 on: Sun Feb 26, 2012 - 11:56:22 »
Quote
I sure hope I'm not comparing myself to Christ. I know I have a long way to go before I might be called Christ-like. But I think Jesus would be more loving and kind and not get embroiled in an us versus them battle on this issue.
Well Carwhisperer,  I guess I can't please all of the people all of the time.  
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 26, 2012 - 14:51:29 by Memphis Dwight »

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #28 on: Sun Feb 26, 2012 - 11:57:15 »
Quote
And here I thought Hillary was the friendly feminist.  One who forgave her husband's infidelity and still kept her head held high.

So where do you place the Gloria Steinems and Jill Irelands who want to kill off men?
DaveW, are you comparing yourself to Christ?

Offline DaveW

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #29 on: Sun Feb 26, 2012 - 12:09:13 »
No - and not really sure what in my post made you think that.

Radical feminism wants to kill off all men.  (if and when they find a way to reproduce without us)

Memphis Dwight

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #30 on: Sun Feb 26, 2012 - 12:45:03 »
Radical feminism is just a distraction.  By going off and fighting radical feminism, the softer form of feminism goes unchallenged.  It is this soft form that does not seek to literally kill off men, but
seeks to gradually eliminate all true masculinity and femininity.  

Movies and television that we choose to watch are pushing soft feminism in which men are encouraged to get in touch with their "maternal side" and women are encouraged to be "in your face."  I'm thinking Law & Order where the character played by Mariska Hargitay is both a career woman and she's tough -- this type arouses the perverted man who has had his natural sexual inclinations twisted and is a gradual step in the direction of queerness. 

Offline Cally

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #31 on: Mon Feb 27, 2012 - 01:29:22 »
We live in a culture where the deck is stacked against men.

More wives than men file for divorces.  Women file the majority of 'no-fault' divorces.  It seems like it is pretty easy to take half, and about 5 days a week of time with the kids. 

In the Old Testament, God didn't allow women to initiate divorces.

There are scholarships for women, 'minority' scholarships, even though there are more women in college than boys nowadays. 

Women are more likely to hit their partners, I heard from one YouTube video which actually sited the video.  It is more likely to be an on-going thing.  Men who hit are more likely to do it as a one-off thing.  If a man calls the police for a domestic violence case, it is more likely that he will be arrested. 

A woman can accuse a man of sexual harassment, rape, or any number of things.  His reputation is ruined.  A man can accuse a woman, and people laugh at him. 

The thing that doesn't make sense is this, there are more men than women in the government making the laws.  Sure, women vote, but there are a lot of subtle things that can be done.

Well, how much can a pre-nup protect a man from the injustice of divorce courts? Because that's a big one. Some people whine about that being a trust issue but that one goes two ways: EVERYBODY knows that if anybody's going to want a pre-nup it's going to be the man, because a wife has pretty much total legal leverage over a man in marriage these days. Nonsense: if a woman is trustworthy and accepts that the only reason for a divorce is infidelity, she too should have nothing to worry about with a pre-nup that actually ensures fairness in that "impossible event" that she wants a divorce for other reasons.

But really, the overarching issue is that men need to learn how to protect their dignity (and each other's, for that matter) and so many of them don't have a clue what to do with that when it comes to women.

Offline musician_for_God

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #32 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 09:37:34 »
I just wanted to post again in this thread to mention that I've been embroiled in a feminism debate on another forum for several days, and it just goes around, and around, and around in circles of doubletalk and denial of the obvious nature and goals of feminism.  Self-proclaimed feminists on there ask ridiculous questions like, "Where did you get the idea that feminism is meant to protect women?"  I tell them feminism is sexism.  Seems obvious, right?  Of course they deny it, and deny it completely.  I said, well, there are Neo-Nazis patrolling Sanford, Florida right now, saying they are going to protect white people.  The feminists admitted they think it's wrong to single out a racial group for protection on the basis of their race.  Yet, they don't see the parallel to women protecting women on the basis of their gender!  They totally deny that feminism is gender-specific and gender-focused, and amounts to a gender war.  They claim it is about equality.  I said the Golden Rule has been around, and famously so, for 2,000 years -- and you're telling me feminism had to come along and invent the concept of human equality? PLEASE!

Feminists allow no distinctions whatsoever between men and women, yet the Bible is clear that not only are there distinctions, but that God MEANT there to be, both in nature and in gender roles in society and the home.

Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #33 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 22:57:23 »
Oops... tried to modify a reply but hit delete... then I clicked ok before I realized what I was doing... It's late and I'm tired.

I suppose it's best, it brought up ugly memories a dear brother and his wife went through...

Guys, just do not fraternize or worse... you will pay. It's not innocent flirting... and if a female decides you are the named victimizer of a sexual harassment claim you are guilty no matter what. Let people know up front that you will turn people in if they say or do anything inappropriate in your sight hearing or to your person... they will turn on you in a moment... and if like me you only saw this going on from a far, they will grill you for not turning it in even as an innocent bystander.

Proverbs!

Read all the warnings in Proverbs about this kind of behavior and those kind of women.

Run like scared rabbit if you have to.

Even if the whole office shuns you it's better than losing everything as my bother and his wife did.

And with this video thing... it's fortunate for the fiend (I won't call her human) that we do not live under Old Testament law!

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Does modern Christianity EVER face the reality of man-hating culture?
« Reply #34 on: Thu Apr 19, 2012 - 05:48:04 »
There was a second discussion in here about about affirmative action as relates to past injustices against women, including examples from the Mosaic law.  I've split that from this thread, as it seemed to me to be it's own topic.  It's still here, just in it's own thread.

Jarrod

 

     
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