Author Topic: I'm a homosexual  (Read 9782 times)

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Offline RB

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #35 on: Tue Sep 06, 2016 - 06:08:18 »
I find some guys attractive.
Then you are a pervert.
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So do you probably.
Before God, I never have, and never will. I find it to be very repulsive and against nature. 
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Also find many girls attractive.
I see many of them beautiful, and something to be much desired~ Yet, I keep myself pure before God and faithful to my wife that God has been pleased to give to me. She has more than taken care of my desires and all of my sexual needs. I'm thankful that God has given to us a perfect model, whereby man can reach his total happiness and contentment in this world, by given Adam one wife to be his help meet, in whatever area that he needed her to serve him, and he, in turn, loved and honour his wife as his own flesh.
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I read nothing that said as moment you give your life to knowing Jesus you become an asexual paragon of purity which is only interested in marital copulation in the missionary position for the sole purposes of bonding and procreation.
One only sees and reads what he wants to see and read! Nothing new under the sun. Only a regenerated spirit lays aside his wicked ways to please the God who has had mercy upon him when he did not seek that mercy, but his own ways.   
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 06, 2016 - 06:13:22 by RB »

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #35 on: Tue Sep 06, 2016 - 06:08:18 »

Offline Daemon Blackfyre

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #36 on: Tue Sep 06, 2016 - 10:37:35 »
Well if I said I didn't I would be lying so it's pervert or liar, I never chose to be this.

I never said you were attracted to guys. The thing is when you chop up  a message like that you break yo the context of the words.

So, right, you know that other women are attractive despite being solely committed to a wife. You know that you would find them hot. for me that just includes guys.

What you'e kinda telling me is that say somebody used to be an alcoholic. They freely admit that if they tried alcohol they probably wouldn't stop. that admittion to themselves is exactly the same ad relapsing.

Offline WaylonSmithers

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #37 on: Fri Sep 09, 2016 - 00:57:08 »
You should live your life to the full Squirrel , as long as your not doing any harm to anyone then your o'k in my book. Sexual abstinence to be quite honest is about as sexually dysfunctional as it gets. Loving caring sexual relationships between consenting adults  is fine . Nowhere in the bible does it say that God hates homosexuals.


Gay priests are excepted now , the church has and is is still modernizing it's views on this subject. And about time as far as i'm concerned. Although i am not gay myself i have gay friends , they live very loving caring lives and are very productive members of their communities. Religion doesn't really need to concern it's self with what you do in the privacy of your own home with a partner of your choice.

There are  enough problems in this world for humanity to be concerned with without worrying about such trivial subjects. So many issues we can spend our time trying to help with . Especially if we are lucky enough to be born into a country where we don't worry where our next meal is coming from , or if we can get a drink of water tomorrow.


If there is a God he will judge us at the end, it's not for other mere mortals to do so ! , and i hope he judges us on the good we do and by the kind hearts we have , not by superficial matters that have no baring on what type of person we are and the lives we lived.


I'm a very spiritual person and i do believe in a life after death , but not in the traditional sense of a God being an all powerful entity , that judges in that way. I think we still have so much more to lean about humanity and our  reasons for existing. I just hope you can find some peace within yourself and some acceptance for who you are , your just a person mate , flesh and blood like the rest of us.

GL.

Offline WaylonSmithers

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #38 on: Fri Sep 09, 2016 - 01:09:15 »
What you'e kinda telling me is that say somebody used to be an alcoholic. They freely admit that if they tried alcohol they probably wouldn't stop. that admittion to themselves is exactly the same ad relapsing.


Alcoholism is an illness like anorexia or any eating or drinking disorder , it is created by addiction over a period of a persons life to the point they become dependent on it .

 sex is just a natural desire , it's nature at it's very basic . I have never seen any proof that same sex couples suffer from a disorder of any kind to be honest . It's not something someone tries one time and then becomes addicted to.

Hetrosexual couples do not become addicted to the opposite sex , they have a basic natural inclination to that gender from birth, it grows with you. A hetrosexual person would not try a same sex relationship.  Sexuality isn't an addiction and can't be compared to addictions. Although sex can be an addiction , but that's completely different to sexuality.
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 09, 2016 - 01:14:42 by WaylonSmithers »

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #38 on: Fri Sep 09, 2016 - 01:09:15 »
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Offline Daemon Blackfyre

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #39 on: Fri Sep 09, 2016 - 01:29:21 »
What you'e kinda telling me is that say somebody used to be an alcoholic. They freely admit that if they tried alcohol they probably wouldn't stop. that admittion to themselves is exactly the same ad relapsing.


Alcoholism is an illness like anorexia or any eating or drinking disorder , it is created by addiction over a period of a persons life to the point they become dependent on it .

 sex is just a natural desire , it's nature at it's very basic . I have never seen any proof that same sex couples suffer from a disorder of any kind to be honest . It's not something someone tries one time and then becomes addicted to.

Hetrosexual couples do not become addicted to the opposite sex , they have a basic natural inclination to that gender from birth, it grows with you. A hetrosexual person would not try a same sex relationship.  Sexuality isn't an addiction and can't be compared to addictions. Although sex can be an addiction , but that's completely different to sexuality.
What you'e kinda telling me is that say somebody used to be an alcoholic. They freely admit that if they tried alcohol they probably wouldn't stop. that admittion to themselves is exactly the same ad relapsing.


Alcoholism is an illness like anorexia or any eating or drinking disorder , it is created by addiction over a period of a persons life to the point they become dependent on it .

 sex is just a natural desire , it's nature at it's very basic . I have never seen any proof that same sex couples suffer from a disorder of any kind to be honest . It's not something someone tries one time and then becomes addicted to.

Hetrosexual couples do not become addicted to the opposite sex , they have a basic natural inclination to that gender from birth, it grows with you. A hetrosexual person would not try a same sex relationship.  Sexuality isn't an addiction and can't be compared to addictions. Although sex can be an addiction , but that's completely different to sexuality.
The parallel I was drawing was that I find the admitting one has an urge to mean the equivalent to you actively and unrepentantly doing a thing as, honestly, asinine - no matter what your actual stance on it is.

When I say I can get very angry and hateful sometimes when backed into a corner, it doesn't mean that I am bashing every drongo that mouth off. Like wise, an alcoholic can admit they still have the urge to drink, that doesn't mean they relapsed.

What it felt like was with RB because I admitted I still find some blokes hot. It would be like calling me promiscuous because I also find a lot of girls hot.

Get where I'm coming from now? I don't even know the dragon thing, I'm not worshipping the arms of a fictional character who represents a concept in the backgrounf of a story that I identify with.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #39 on: Fri Sep 09, 2016 - 01:29:21 »



Offline WaylonSmithers

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #40 on: Fri Sep 09, 2016 - 02:02:27 »
What you'e kinda telling me is that say somebody used to be an alcoholic. They freely admit that if they tried alcohol they probably wouldn't stop. that admittion to themselves is exactly the same ad relapsing.


Alcoholism is an illness like anorexia or any eating or drinking disorder , it is created by addiction over a period of a persons life to the point they become dependent on it .

 sex is just a natural desire , it's nature at it's very basic . I have never seen any proof that same sex couples suffer from a disorder of any kind to be honest . It's not something someone tries one time and then becomes addicted to.

Hetrosexual couples do not become addicted to the opposite sex , they have a basic natural inclination to that gender from birth, it grows with you. A hetrosexual person would not try a same sex relationship.  Sexuality isn't an addiction and can't be compared to addictions. Although sex can be an addiction , but that's completely different to sexuality.
What you'e kinda telling me is that say somebody used to be an alcoholic. They freely admit that if they tried alcohol they probably wouldn't stop. that admittion to themselves is exactly the same ad relapsing.


Alcoholism is an illness like anorexia or any eating or drinking disorder , it is created by addiction over a period of a persons life to the point they become dependent on it .

 sex is just a natural desire , it's nature at it's very basic . I have never seen any proof that same sex couples suffer from a disorder of any kind to be honest . It's not something someone tries one time and then becomes addicted to.

Hetrosexual couples do not become addicted to the opposite sex , they have a basic natural inclination to that gender from birth, it grows with you. A hetrosexual person would not try a same sex relationship.  Sexuality isn't an addiction and can't be compared to addictions. Although sex can be an addiction , but that's completely different to sexuality.
The parallel I was drawing was that I find the admitting one has an urge to mean the equivalent to you actively and unrepentantly doing a thing as, honestly, asinine - no matter what your actual stance on it is.

When I say I can get very angry and hateful sometimes when backed into a corner, it doesn't mean that I am bashing every drongo that mouth off. Like wise, an alcoholic can admit they still have the urge to drink, that doesn't mean they relapsed.

What it felt like was with RB because I admitted I still find some blokes hot. It would be like calling me promiscuous because I also find a lot of girls hot.

Get where I'm coming from now? I don't even know the dragon thing, I'm not worshipping the arms of a fictional character who represents a concept in the backgrounf of a story that I identify with.


I didn't mean to come across confrontational , sorry if it read that way. But i think even straight men find other guys attractive , that doesn't mean it's in a sexual way . Women are far more upfront about this subject and have no issue with saying another women is pretty.

Men just don't talk about it because of the fear of being labeled gay , it's just a taboo subject for a bloke to say another is  good looking or he has great hair.  I think everyone male or female can appreciate the looks of others.


I have no issues with Homosexuality either, if you have those feelings you need to come to terms with them yourself. What i would say , is don't ignore your sexuality ,you have to follow your heart sometimes . Life is to short to worry about what others think , you got to live life my friend and stop living in fear of what comes after life . People get so caught up with this they forget to live.





Offline Daemon Blackfyre

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #41 on: Fri Sep 09, 2016 - 03:18:47 »
Ah, okay.

I definitely mean that they're sexual and I have definitely come to terms with that in a multitude of ways.

Offline SHINY4UJESUS

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #42 on: Sun Oct 09, 2016 - 22:38:01 »
1) THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE FORUM FOR THIS TOPIC, ACCORDING TO ADMIN AND SITE REGULATION, ALL POSTS/DISCUSSION OF THIS TOPIC ARE TO BE IN THE FOLLOWING FORUM:

 New Posts   Christian Men Sexual Topics rss
Topics related to Christian male sexuality should be discussed here.

2) " Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people drunkards, abusers, and swindlers-none of these will have a share in the kingdom of God. "                              + 1 CORINTH. 6:9&10 +
    The bible is clear where God stands on this matter. However folks, keep in mind any heterosexual committing sin is no less in sin than a homosexual; there are far too many ignoring this truth.

3) " If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth, but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or clanging cymbal...If  I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed  my body,
I could boast about it, but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever. Love is patient, love is kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand it's own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it's been wronged. It is never glad about injustice, but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.."
                     + 1 CORINTH. 13: 1,2 & 4-7 +

   WE must keep in mind that when expounding scripture and confronting sin; we ARE COMMANDED  to do so in a spirit of love, mercy, and grace. Let us not simply "bible-bash," any sinner; homosexual or not.

4) " Under the old covenant, the priest stands before the altar day after day, offering sacrifices that can never take away sins. But our High Priest (Christ Jesus,) offered himself as one sacrifice for sins, GOOD FOR ALL TIME. Then he sat down at the place of highest honor at God's right hand.....then He adds,' I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds.' Now when sins have been forgiven, there is no more need to offer any more sacrifices."
                             + HEBREWS  10: 11&12, 17&18 +

    Furthermore, Jesus died for ALL SIN AND ALL SINNERS; let us not measure homosexual sin as "more grievous," than any other sin. WE received an infinite measure of grace and mercy, so where do we have license to respond to that grace by doling out heavy-handed condemnation?

   Finally, folks: if one wishes to offer correction or rebuke, please be certain it is well grounded in scripture and not overly seasoned with man's opinions. We become a liability to our own cause when we compromise our own efforts by presenting unbiblical ideas as though they are of God. Just food for thought. May Father grant clarity in this matter.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #43 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 02:20:43 »
1) THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE FORUM FOR THIS TOPIC, ACCORDING TO ADMIN AND SITE REGULATION, ALL POSTS/DISCUSSION OF THIS TOPIC ARE TO BE IN THE FOLLOWING FORUM:

 New Posts   Christian Men Sexual Topics rss
Topics related to Christian male sexuality should be discussed here.

Dude, this topic has been here more than FOUR YEARS.  You and I have been here LESS THAN FOUR WEEKS.  One might reasonably suppose that if it were really misplaced, someone among TPTB would have noticed and taken corrective action by now.  Failing that, you might have considered a more genteel, "Ahem, Is it possible this discussion would more properly belong in the Sexual Topics subforum?"


Quote
2) "Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people drunkards, abusers, and swindlers-none of these will have a share in the kingdom of God. "                              + 1 CORINTH. 6:9&10 +
    The bible is clear where God stands on this matter. However folks, keep in mind any heterosexual committing sin is no less in sin than a homosexual; there are far too many ignoring this truth.

3) " If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth, but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or clanging cymbal...If  I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed  my body,
I could boast about it, but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever. Love is patient, love is kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand it's own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it's been wronged. It is never glad about injustice, but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.."
                     + 1 CORINTH. 13: 1,2 & 4-7 +

   WE must keep in mind that when expounding scripture and confronting sin; we ARE COMMANDED  to do so in a spirit of love, mercy, and grace. Let us not simply "bible-bash," any sinner; homosexual or not.

4) " Under the old covenant, the priest stands before the altar day after day, offering sacrifices that can never take away sins. But our High Priest (Christ Jesus,) offered himself as one sacrifice for sins, GOOD FOR ALL TIME. Then he sat down at the place of highest honor at God's right hand.....then He adds,' I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds.' Now when sins have been forgiven, there is no more need to offer any more sacrifices."
                             + HEBREWS  10: 11&12, 17&18 +

    Furthermore, Jesus died for ALL SIN AND ALL SINNERS; let us not measure homosexual sin as "more grievous," than any other sin. WE received an infinite measure of grace and mercy, so where do we have license to respond to that grace by doling out heavy-handed condemnation?

   Finally, folks: if one wishes to offer correction or rebuke, please be certain it is well grounded in scripture and not overly seasoned with man's opinions. We become a liability to our own cause when we compromise our own efforts by presenting unbiblical ideas as though they are of God. Just food for thought. May Father grant clarity in this matter.

Scripture certainly does seem clear in condemning homosexuals in the vice list of 1 Cor. 6.  How then is the New and better Covenant of the Spirit really superior to the Obsolete Covenant of the letter?  All of the Law, with its Commandments, ordinances, and decrees was abolished, cancelled, nailed to the Cross, hung on the Tree.  Was it then just replaced by a new set of laws, commandments, ordinances, decrees?  Or was the "other" Paul right, the one who said that all Commandments and Law are fulfilled by "Love your neighbor as yourself"?  Unless there is some pretty obvious way that homosexuality necessarily violates "love," it seems a bit presumptuous to declare it necessarily and universally sinful.

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #44 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 05:58:00 »
It isn't presumptuous.   It's right in the New Testament.   Homosexuality is sinful.  Period.

Offline Alan

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #45 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 07:53:16 »
The entire "sin is sin" ideology is a farce, while many Christians do commit sin it isn't without remorse and/or repentance but the homosexual community (including the "christian homosexuals") celebrate their sin, there exists a huge difference.

Offline SHINY4UJESUS

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #46 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 08:38:55 »
1) ALAN, I do see your point and I do agree. Acknowledging that a sin is indeed sin is only part of the issue at hand. The other side of the coin is repenting and turning from it. Having just half of the truth is only half-truth, and thus; a lie. However, to an extent we also must recognize and acknowledge the "process," per se. Some chains are harder to break and completely be rid of. This is not an excuse to sin; nor is it license to sin, but a realization that at some point if the sin is acknowledged and confessed; and in the heart turned from then it no longer constitutes "unrepentant" sin but falls under the blood. I would clarify here that continuing consciously in active participation of said sin IS unrepentant sin; and thus there is "no longer any sacrifice for it." The principle I am shedding light on is that once the heart is turned against it, one should not condemn for the flesh's nature to unconsciously return to the type of thoughts and attitudes regarding the sin. There is a big difference between falling into a habitually developed tendency towards temptation to sin; and actively participating in the sin itself. I just want to make this clear.
2) NORRIN: Brother I get that; the initial point is not invalidated by your perspective however. The truth yet remains the truth that it is specifically and clearly stated that there is a dedicated forum for this particular topic. it is neither a judgment nor condemnation, but an assertion of the truth that perhaps folks do well to recognize what structure is in place rather than disregard such a thing. I personally don't care one way or another; but as a believer, there is a certain moral duty to redirect towards truth and proper conduct. If you wish to get offended by truth, I apologize; but I cannot/will not actively promote disorder for the sake of individuals who disagree with simple statement of truth...LOL. State of heart matters. What does it say about a person's intention if they are more concerned with responding to truth with contempt? These are simply things to consider.
    Furthermore Norrin; you may benefit from taking scripture in context as opposed to out of context. Your replies imply a lack of depth here: one cannot simply take a single verse here and there, ignore context and present the idea as though it (being only partial in truth,) is unmitigated truth. What you have stated has elements of truth, but without consideration of the parallel scriptures and proper context; it presents a very deceptive and flawed image of the Word and what it states. Consider the following: A) Sin is indeed sin whether one chooses to accept or acknowledge it or not; including homosexuality. B) The Old Law is not as though without merit; but due to the law of grace given by the blood of Christ we are no longer bound to "perfect adherence," to the concepts and principles in the Old Law. This does not negate them, but merely "amends," them to the extent that our "legal," standing in the kingdom is not measured by obedience to them, but by sincerity of our faith in Jesus as the propitiation of our sin. C) This is not solely in regards to homosexuality, but ALL sin. ALL sin is still sin; however, there is a difference, as alluded to here, and in ALAN's statement that a removal of the penalty of said sin is contingent upon a person repenting and actually turning away from the sin. Too many ( I concur with Alan's case point here,) blindly use the "sin is sin," mantra as an across the board lever to avoid accountability and a license to continue sinning; which ironically, is in complete disregard of the nature of sin. D) "Loving thy neighbor as thyself,'' does not mean to blindly condone sin or sinful behavior in order to not cause offense. Rather, it can be illustrated in a believer's willingness to speak truth and correct sin in the lives of others rather than simply letting them blindly continue a course that leads to death and destruction. On the contrary, simply by standing aside and ignoring truth and Christian obligation here is contributing to their spiritual death. In James 4:17 we are told that ,"To fail to do the good we know we ought to do, it is sin." Thus, we are ourselves committing sin when we neglect to do as we are commanded; to be salt and light, and deliver a message of love, hope and forgiveness in Christ.
    In the end, Jesus said "You will know them by their fruit." This being said, what fruit is illustrated in bitterness, anger, deception, and contention that are displayed in one's posts? Are these things fruit of the Spirit? Or do they reflect the nature of the enemy? We do well to consider our intentions before rashly lashing out in unbiblical response, the wrong attitude, and faulty perspective; else we only contribute to serving the "other team." May Father grant clarity in these things. God Bless.

Offline NicholasMarks

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #47 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 08:40:48 »

All...

There is another way of looking at this. How can we condemn one sin when we are all sinners??

We are all offenders of God's righteous laws and it seems this means that genetic imperfection will rest on our physical make up for each of us to deal with, righteously. No one is immune. So...ok...my genetic failings  aren't the same as others but they can all be addressed if we follow Jesus' teaching accurately.

I am not a homosexual but according to Jesus, in God's new heaven and new Earth, there will be no giving in marriage so it is wise to learn to live life as Jesus did, without any other relationship, other than the one that exists with Jesus, the angels, Almighty God, and all those who are seeking righteousness, knowing that sexual behaviour will be, then, a thing of the past.

Till then...dealing in any sexual behaviour, especially deviant behaviour, is considered unrighteous in God's eyes and will only add to our sins...whilst resurrection demands that we are as sinless as possible.


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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #48 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 08:59:08 »

All...

There is another way of looking at this. How can we condemn one sin when we are all sinners??

We are all offenders of God's righteous laws and it seems this means that genetic imperfection will rest on our physical make up for each of us to deal with, righteously. No one is immune. So...ok...my genetic failings  aren't the same as others but they can all be addressed if we follow Jesus' teaching accurately.

I am not a homosexual but according to Jesus, in God's new heaven and new Earth, there will be no giving in marriage so it is wise to learn to live life as Jesus did, without any other relationship, other than the one that exists with Jesus, the angels, Almighty God, and all those who are seeking righteousness, knowing that sexual behaviour will be, then, a thing of the past.

Till then...dealing in any sexual behaviour, especially deviant behaviour, is considered unrighteous in God's eyes and will only add to our sins...whilst resurrection demands that we are as sinless as possible.

You need to read more scripture.  Sexual behavior in the confines of a marriage between man and woman is not sinful.  It is recommended for those who burn with passion.

Offline Alan

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #49 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 09:07:46 »

There is another way of looking at this. How can we condemn one sin when we are all sinners??



Simple, we need to identify that we have sinned and repent of such behaviour, that is why homosexuality becomes such a hot topic, even when homosexuals are given direct scripture rejecting their lifestyle, they reject it in favour of passages that claim we should love one another in a progressive fashion, moving onward from what scripture teaches. In short, if you celebrate your sinful lifestyle it most certainly separates you from the individual that commits incidental sin and repents of such.

Offline Carey

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #50 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 09:14:34 »
Late to the party,  just wanted to add my two cents,

Daemon is a "young" Christian, and to call him a pervert is unwarranted and unloving.  What he describes is a temptation not a sin, we all get them, even RB. 

Waylon:
"Gay priests are excepted now" as they should be, unfortunately I think you got autocorrected and meant "accepted"






Offline Carey

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #51 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 09:18:09 »

There is another way of looking at this. How can we condemn one sin when we are all sinners??



Simple, we need to identify that we have sinned and repent of such behaviour, that is why homosexuality becomes such a hot topic, even when homosexuals are given direct scripture rejecting their lifestyle, they reject it in favour of passages that claim we should love one another in a progressive fashion, moving onward from what scripture teaches. In short, if you celebrate your sinful lifestyle it most certainly separates you from the individual that commits incidental sin and repents of such.

I agree, once we start accepting our sin, we are in jeopardy. 


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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #52 on: Mon Oct 10, 2016 - 09:27:56 »
I concur with Alan, Carey and Texas here. Conscious sin is the type of active sin that is without sacrifice and cannot be forgiven. The "qualification," I previously alluded to is specifically in the rare occasions a person is like unto Paul in Romans 7:1-22 where the sin is despised and unwanted; an unconscious manifestation of the flesh, rather than consciously and actively entertained. We do well to note the difference and be honest with ourselves and with God in these matters. Refusal to accept accountability will not affect God's necessity to maintain his character and just/righteous nature in holding us accountable.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #53 on: Tue Oct 11, 2016 - 02:41:07 »
Late to the party,  just wanted to add my two cents,

Daemon is a "young" Christian, and to call him a pervert is unwarranted and unloving.  What he describes is a temptation not a sin, we all get them, even RB. 

Waylon:
"Gay priests are excepted now" as they should be, unfortunately I think you got autocorrected and meant "accepted"
I second this in general. All I read was that he understands the poster's position as somebody who has, in the past, had sex with other boys and continues to be attracted to men. If he was to just deny such, surely temptation to sin gets worse because such a person wouldn't be aware of issues they should pray, work on and resist.

The first part is admitting you have a problem, if you will.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #54 on: Tue Oct 11, 2016 - 03:46:43 »
It isn't presumptuous.   It's right in the New Testament.   Homosexuality is sinful.  Period.

I understand that you believe that.  I did also, back in my much fundier days.  Back then, I just looked at those supposedly clear "rules" in things like the vice lists and accepted them, and kind of shoved "Love your neighbor as yourself" out of the way, as kind of a nice, warm and fuzzy ideal that really did not matter as much as the various "laws."

I have now basically reversed that view.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #55 on: Tue Oct 11, 2016 - 06:38:49 »
It isn't presumptuous.   It's right in the New Testament.   Homosexuality is sinful.  Period.

I understand that you believe that.  I did also, back in my much fundier days.  Back then, I just looked at those supposedly clear "rules" in things like the vice lists and accepted them, and kind of shoved "Love your neighbor as yourself" out of the way, as kind of a nice, warm and fuzzy ideal that really did not matter as much as the various "laws."

I have now basically reversed that view.


I believe all scripture needs to be put into proper perspective as it applies to our lives and the people around us. No doubt, the two greatest commandments from Mat 22 need to be top of mind awareness for us Christians, but these commandments can be used in conjunction with the law, we learn to not condemn as much as we offer help to those living in darkness.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #56 on: Tue Oct 11, 2016 - 07:40:47 »
It isn't presumptuous.   It's right in the New Testament.   Homosexuality is sinful.  Period.

I understand that you believe that.  I did also, back in my much fundier days.  Back then, I just looked at those supposedly clear "rules" in things like the vice lists and accepted them, and kind of shoved "Love your neighbor as yourself" out of the way, as kind of a nice, warm and fuzzy ideal that really did not matter as much as the various "laws."

I have now basically reversed that view.


I believe all scripture needs to be put into proper perspective as it applies to our lives and the people around us. No doubt, the two greatest commandments from Mat 22 need to be top of mind awareness for us Christians, but these commandments can be used in conjunction with the law, we learn to not condemn as much as we offer help to those living in darkness.

But if you read my original post, you'll see more of the background on which I based my change of perspective.  The Law and the Obsolete Covenant to which it belonged are no longer in effect.  The New and better Covenant is explicitly not a Covenant with a written ("letter") law.  Paul explicitly said -- repeatedly -- that law and Commandments are fulfilled by "Love your neighbor as yourself."

So I have come around to the view that any apparent "law" that cannot be easily shown to be a specific example of "Love your neighbor as yourself" is not universally applicable.  Homosexuality is self-evidently abnormal, in kind of the same sense that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a telephone jack, but that does not make it sinful.  Homosexual practice may well be sinful in specific cases, including but not limited to cases where the participants are objectified, or where one is abusive, but that does not make *all* homosexual behavior sinful.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #57 on: Wed Oct 12, 2016 - 08:25:56 »
Well, my two cents on this subject is that (as Christians tend to do) some are making this way to complicated.

What does Jesus tell us is the greatest commandment? Not equal to other commandments, not to be taken from a pool of commandments, but the greatest commandment? Come to a clear and sober understanding of that and you have answers for many issues that have been made far too complex in parsing the Word to create some rationalization. And this includes the issue homosexuality.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #58 on: Wed Oct 12, 2016 - 09:43:54 »
Well, my two cents on this subject is that (as Christians tend to do) some are making this way to complicated.

What does Jesus tell us is the greatest commandment? Not equal to other commandments, not to be taken from a pool of commandments, but the greatest commandment? Come to a clear and sober understanding of that and you have answers for many issues that have been made far too complex in parsing the Word to create some rationalization. And this includes the issue homosexuality.


Well, could we not then edit the Bible to leave out the rest of the non-essential teachings? I will always agree with Mat 22, but that love comes with the desire to love God and His will for our lives.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #59 on: Wed Oct 12, 2016 - 10:45:36 »
It isn't presumptuous.   It's right in the New Testament.   Homosexuality is sinful.  Period.

I understand that you believe that.  I did also, back in my much fundier days.  Back then, I just looked at those supposedly clear "rules" in things like the vice lists and accepted them, and kind of shoved "Love your neighbor as yourself" out of the way, as kind of a nice, warm and fuzzy ideal that really did not matter as much as the various "laws."

I have now basically reversed that view.


I believe all scripture needs to be put into proper perspective as it applies to our lives and the people around us. No doubt, the two greatest commandments from Mat 22 need to be top of mind awareness for us Christians, but these commandments can be used in conjunction with the law, we learn to not condemn as much as we offer help to those living in darkness.

But if you read my original post, you'll see more of the background on which I based my change of perspective.  The Law and the Obsolete Covenant to which it belonged are no longer in effect.  The New and better Covenant is explicitly not a Covenant with a written ("letter") law.  Paul explicitly said -- repeatedly -- that law and Commandments are fulfilled by "Love your neighbor as yourself."

So I have come around to the view that any apparent "law" that cannot be easily shown to be a specific example of "Love your neighbor as yourself" is not universally applicable.  Homosexuality is self-evidently abnormal, in kind of the same sense that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a telephone jack, but that does not make it sinful.  Homosexual practice may well be sinful in specific cases, including but not limited to cases where the participants are objectified, or where one is abusive, but that does not make *all* homosexual behavior sinful.

   Folks, one can take a SIN, fold it up, spin it around, shake it, stir it, paint it purple and even call it "Bob," but this will never change the fact that it is indeed sin.

" Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe; they will follow lying spirits and teachings that come from demons. These teachers are hypocrites and liars. They pretend to be religious, but their consciences are dead. They will say it is wrong to be married..."                + 1 TIMOTHY 4:1-3(a) +

   We are in grave danger when we refuse to acknowledge that sin is indeed sin, because in that refusal to accept truth; we make it impossible for the blood of Jesus to cover that sin. Sure it is easier on our conscience to find ways to validate or rationalize sin; but that does not remove sin, nor does it make the sin somehow "not sin." Homosexuality is no less sin than intentional deception, or stealing from others, or even maliciously committed murder...whether we wish to believe it or not. Our freedom to believe a lie will not change the fact that truth is still the truth.
   Now, to an extent you make a good point regarding the most important commandments; however, in so doing, you eradicate any foundation for your own argument. How can you truly love your neighbor if you willingly and intentionally contribute to their eternal destruction and outright deception regarding scripture? Truly, if one is obedient to this prime commandment, one will be dedicated to speaking truth and confronting the sin so that the "sinner," may accept that their action is indeed sin and turn from it; in order to receive salvation of their soul. Otherwise, one is simply blindly leading that sinner away from God, away from truth, and into eternal damnation. That my friend, is not love; but malicious hate; as one is imposing condemnation and death upon another; whether they do so intentionally or by accident as they are simply not aware of their participation.
   Brother, I am not saying you are intentionally misleading; I am not saying your heart is evil and you are purposely doing these things; I think you are simply misinformed and not seeing the truth that is apparent. You must come to realize the following to actually be living in truth my friend:

1) Homosexuality is sin. No matter how you cut it, no matter how you twist it, the scriptures are clear on this matter in many places; ESPECIALLY in the New Testament,(Post-Law period.) Without accepting this truth, it is impossible to receive grace and forgiveness.

2) Homosexuality is no "more sinful," than any other sin either; so others do well to stop acting like it is somehow a more grievous or penalty ridden sin than any other. What is good for the goose is good for the gander; if you wish to present this sin as sin, you do well to present other sin as equally sin or you also are not living in truth...period.

3) Let us realize that it is no longer SIN that is the primary issue; the SIN is covered by the blood of Christ once it is acknowledged, confessed and turned from in the heart; even if against the heart one struggles for a time in physically being free of the habitual chains besetting them.( IE see Romans 7:1-22). The issue is more state of the heart, intention of heart, direction of heart; and those things which cause/lead to sin. ( Please keep this principle IN CONTEXT it is NOT  a license to intentionally/unrepentantly continue in conscious sin.)

4) In the end folks, we are all equally prone to missing the mark, falling short, and simply having things incorrect. Let us just endeavor to promote peace, and remember that we are to gently and lovingly redirect; rather than "contend, bicker and brow-beat others into shape" All of us have had times where we meant well but simply didn't have everything "correct," and thus perhaps went about things the wrong way; I know I have. And I still have my moments..LOL! Don't get me wrong, I am far from perfect...far from the designated earthly authority on scripture. But that being said, the scripture is still clear on these things no matter who says what otherwise. May God grant us clarity on these matters.


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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #60 on: Wed Oct 12, 2016 - 11:53:44 »
Well, my two cents on this subject is that (as Christians tend to do) some are making this way to complicated.

What does Jesus tell us is the greatest commandment? Not equal to other commandments, not to be taken from a pool of commandments, but the greatest commandment? Come to a clear and sober understanding of that and you have answers for many issues that have been made far too complex in parsing the Word to create some rationalization. And this includes the issue homosexuality.


Well, could we not then edit the Bible to leave out the rest of the non-essential teachings? I will always agree with Mat 22, but that love comes with the desire to love God and His will for our lives.

There is no non-essential teachings in the Bible. My point exactly. IMO, the Word is to be taken as a whole, but there is a progression from pre-Christ to after Christ. Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets, but did not erase all laws as it relates to our relationship with God. What was an abomination to our Lord before Christ's sacrifice is still an abomination to Him. Sin has not been eradicated. Old Testament law was not the path to salvation in and of itself. It was dedication to the belief of the Redeemer yet to come expressed in the effort of upholding the old law to the best of one's ability. Christ, the Redeemer, gave His life for our sins and therefore fulfilled the old law; and, in doing so, fulfilled the prophecy.

Now, as a progression, some of the old law no longer applies. There is no requirement to sacrifice animals. The ultimate sacrifice has been completed. But that does not mean other law no longer applies. We don't toss aside the Ten Commandments or those things which God has made plain to us are an abomination to Him. We are still subject to the over riding sin nature that separates us from our Lord. A further now, just because we have accepted Jesus as our Savior does not mean we will not sin. He does not expect perfection from us in this fallen world. What He does expect, what illustrates our acceptance of Redemption, is the love we show for Him. Therefore, as Jesus tells us, the greatest Commandment is love for our Lord. "With all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind." With the best effort we can muster. Not to perfection, but with the best effort we can put forth.

So how do we love our Lord? With hugs? Buy Him gifts? Do His dishes? No, we love our Lord by pleasing Him. And we please Him by, with our best effort, not offending Him. Again, not by fulfilling old law that became moot with Christ's sacrifice, but by doing all we can to live in a manner that He has laid out as pleasing for Him. So, we cannot justify that which we know is an abomination to Him. Period. We are no more free to practice homosexuality than we are to go against any of His Commandments. And just to make it completely clear, I do not believe the homosexual is condemned to eternal death any more than I believe a murderer or adulterer is condemned to eternal death. It comes down to just how much actual heart, soul, and mind we put into pleasing Him- to loving Him.

Now, there's the standard argument that since Christ did not specifically express homosexuality as displeasing to our Lord, then it most be okay. Lots of things Christ did not specifically express as displeasing. Do we need some laundry list to identify such things, or are those displeasures expressed elsewhere in the Word? (I think everyone already know the answer to that) Christ is not specific on child abuse. Since He isn't, do we consider it to be okay; to be pleasing and loving towards our Lord?

Finally, not the greatest Commandment, but the second one, "like it". Not equal to it- like it. After all, there can be only one "greatest". That commandment, "Love your neighbor as yourself". So, how do we love our neighbor? Hug them? Buy them gifts? Do their dishes? Perhaps those could be expressions of a love, but that's not the love Christ is talking about. Again, the entire Word matters and there is a progression. Love of God first, love of neighbor next. And note, "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two Commandments". For our journey in this fallen world, for our path to Salvation and the eternal life with our Lord, these are the most important words Jesus ever spoke to us. The love of neighbor Jesus commands directly relates to His greatest Commandment, the love of our Lord. Although not directly stated (as it's not needed), with all our heart, soul, and mind we are to love our neighbor in a manner that brings them to love our Lord. The highest expression of love for neighbor is assisting them to love our Lord. And how does our neighbor love our Lord? By pleasing Him.

If we rationalize any sin as pleasing to our Lord, we are lost. If we fail in our attempts to love our Lord, but have actually made those attempts with all our heart, soul, and mind, then (again, IMO) we do not displease Him. Our sin burdens differ from person to person. We are not condemned for falling under a heavier weight than that placed on another. He does not demand perfection (obviously), he demands commitment and effort. We all backslide, all fall short, but are not condemned by that. Where we are condemned is in rationalizing since we can't be perfect, we need not even try. There was no perfection under the old law, and none now. God judged those subject to the old law not by their perfection, but by their effort. He does the same now.

As it relates to the topic of this thread, homosexuality is displeasing to our Lord. It cannot be excused. But it is not a death sentence. To try and fail in the effort to control any sin is not a death sentence. What is, is to rationalize not even trying. And what is, is to not love our neighbor in a manner that helps them as much in their efforts as we possibly can.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #61 on: Wed Oct 12, 2016 - 12:23:48 »
Well, my two cents on this subject is that (as Christians tend to do) some are making this way to complicated.

What does Jesus tell us is the greatest commandment? Not equal to other commandments, not to be taken from a pool of commandments, but the greatest commandment? Come to a clear and sober understanding of that and you have answers for many issues that have been made far too complex in parsing the Word to create some rationalization. And this includes the issue homosexuality.


Well, could we not then edit the Bible to leave out the rest of the non-essential teachings? I will always agree with Mat 22, but that love comes with the desire to love God and His will for our lives.

There is no non-essential teachings in the Bible. My point exactly. IMO, the Word is to be taken as a whole, but there is a progression from pre-Christ to after Christ. Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets, but did not erase all laws as it relates to our relationship with God. What was an abomination to our Lord before Christ's sacrifice is still an abomination to Him. Sin has not been eradicated. Old Testament law was not the path to salvation in and of itself. It was dedication to the belief of the Redeemer yet to come expressed in the effort of upholding the old law to the best of one's ability. Christ, the Redeemer, gave His life for our sins and therefore fulfilled the old law; and, in doing so, fulfilled the prophecy.

Now, as a progression, some of the old law no longer applies. There is no requirement to sacrifice animals. The ultimate sacrifice has been completed. But that does not mean other law no longer applies. We don't toss aside the Ten Commandments or those things which God has made plain to us are an abomination to Him. We are still subject to the over riding sin nature that separates us from our Lord. A further now, just because we have accepted Jesus as our Savior does not mean we will not sin. He does not expect perfection from us in this fallen world. What He does expect, what illustrates our acceptance of Redemption, is the love we show for Him. Therefore, as Jesus tells us, the greatest Commandment is love for our Lord. "With all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind." With the best effort we can muster. Not to perfection, but with the best effort we can put forth.

So how do we love our Lord? With hugs? Buy Him gifts? Do His dishes? No, we love our Lord by pleasing Him. And we please Him by, with our best effort, not offending Him. Again, not by fulfilling old law that became moot with Christ's sacrifice, but by doing all we can to live in a manner that He has laid out as pleasing for Him. So, we cannot justify that which we know is an abomination to Him. Period. We are no more free to practice homosexuality than we are to go against any of His Commandments. And just to make it completely clear, I do not believe the homosexual is condemned to eternal death any more than I believe a murderer or adulterer is condemned to eternal death. It comes down to just how much actual heart, soul, and mind we put into pleasing Him- to loving Him.

Now, there's the standard argument that since Christ did not specifically express homosexuality as displeasing to our Lord, then it most be okay. Lots of things Christ did not specifically express as displeasing. Do we need some laundry list to identify such things, or are those displeasures expressed elsewhere in the Word? (I think everyone already know the answer to that) Christ is not specific on child abuse. Since He isn't, do we consider it to be okay; to be pleasing and loving towards our Lord?

Finally, not the greatest Commandment, but the second one, "like it". Not equal to it- like it. After all, there can be only one "greatest". That commandment, "Love your neighbor as yourself". So, how do we love our neighbor? Hug them? Buy them gifts? Do their dishes? Perhaps those could be expressions of a love, but that's not the love Christ is talking about. Again, the entire Word matters and there is a progression. Love of God first, love of neighbor next. And note, "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two Commandments". For our journey in this fallen world, for our path to Salvation and the eternal life with our Lord, these are the most important words Jesus ever spoke to us. The love of neighbor Jesus commands directly relates to His greatest Commandment, the love of our Lord. Although not directly stated (as it's not needed), with all our heart, soul, and mind we are to love our neighbor in a manner that brings them to love our Lord. The highest expression of love for neighbor is assisting them to love our Lord. And how does our neighbor love our Lord? By pleasing Him.

If we rationalize any sin as pleasing to our Lord, we are lost. If we fail in our attempts to love our Lord, but have actually made those attempts with all our heart, soul, and mind, then (again, IMO) we do not displease Him. Our sin burdens differ from person to person. We are not condemned for falling under a heavier weight than that placed on another. He does not demand perfection (obviously), he demands commitment and effort. We all backslide, all fall short, but are not condemned by that. Where we are condemned is in rationalizing since we can't be perfect, we need not even try. There was no perfection under the old law, and none now. God judged those subject to the old law not by their perfection, but by their effort. He does the same now.

As it relates to the topic of this thread, homosexuality is displeasing to our Lord. It cannot be excused. But it is not a death sentence. To try and fail in the effort to control any sin is not a death sentence. What is, is to rationalize not even trying. And what is, is to not love our neighbor in a manner that helps them as much in their efforts as we possibly can.


Thank you for elaborating  ::smile::

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #62 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 05:47:26 »
Well, my two cents on this subject is that (as Christians tend to do) some are making this way to complicated.

What does Jesus tell us is the greatest commandment? Not equal to other commandments, not to be taken from a pool of commandments, but the greatest commandment? Come to a clear and sober understanding of that and you have answers for many issues that have been made far too complex in parsing the Word to create some rationalization. And this includes the issue homosexuality.

I agree that we probably overcomplicate, but I'm not sure from this that the simplification you arrive at is the same as mine, and your clarification later seems to confirm that.

Here, you allude to the "Greatest" Commandment.  That question is addressed in Matt. 22 and Mark 12, where Jesus says the Greatest Commandment is to love God with all one's heart, soul, mind, and strength.  By itself, that does not clarify things, but I'll leave that for later.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #63 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 06:24:48 »
Thank you for elaborating  ::smile::
Agreed. Sodomy is not a sin against the Spirt of God of which there is no forgiveness~God has and will yet show mercy to all types of sinners, and when he does, they depart from those sins that they were slaves to and served. We all could say with Paul that we were the chief of sinners. I have witnessed a sodomite seeking God's forgiveness first hand from a person that was very dear to my wife....her brother. Even Jesus said that if certain works were done in Sodom and Gomorrah that had been done in certain cities that he went into and preached, they WOULD HAVE repented, proving that there are certain sins that are greater than sodomy, such as unbelief in the presence of clear evidence that the word of God is true. I believe in being very merciful to anyone regardless who they are IF THEY DO NOT BOAST of their lifestyle, as though there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, when the word of God clearly condemns it. 

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #64 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 07:13:56 »
Surely God knows what's in our hearts; the degree of love we have for Him. And logic would suggest we aren't all able to love in precisely the same degree, so further logic would be that we do love with all our heart, soul, and mind- and He is pleased.

I cannot run as fast as others, but even if I walk, I'm moving.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #65 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 08:09:22 »
Thank you for elaborating  ::smile::
Agreed. Sodomy is not a sin against the Spirt of God of which there is no forgiveness~God has and will yet show mercy to all types of sinners, and when he does, they depart from those sins that they were slaves to and served. We all could say with Paul that we were the chief of sinners. I have witnessed a sodomite seeking God's forgiveness first hand from a person that was very dear to my wife....her brother. Even Jesus said that if certain works were done in Sodom and Gomorrah that had been done in certain cities that he went into and preached, they WOULD HAVE repented, proving that there are certain sins that are greater than sodomy, such as unbelief in the presence of clear evidence that the word of God is true. I believe in being very merciful to anyone regardless who they are IF THEY DO NOT BOAST of their lifestyle, as though there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, when the word of God clearly condemns it.
RB true mercy is love qiven when one continues in sin

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #66 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 08:25:27 »
Should not be in leadership

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #67 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 08:45:29 »
It isn't presumptuous.   It's right in the New Testament.   Homosexuality is sinful.  Period.

I understand that you believe that.  I did also, back in my much fundier days.  Back then, I just looked at those supposedly clear "rules" in things like the vice lists and accepted them, and kind of shoved "Love your neighbor as yourself" out of the way, as kind of a nice, warm and fuzzy ideal that really did not matter as much as the various "laws."

I have now basically reversed that view.


I believe all scripture needs to be put into proper perspective as it applies to our lives and the people around us. No doubt, the two greatest commandments from Mat 22 need to be top of mind awareness for us Christians, but these commandments can be used in conjunction with the law, we learn to not condemn as much as we offer help to those living in darkness.

But if you read my original post, you'll see more of the background on which I based my change of perspective.  The Law and the Obsolete Covenant to which it belonged are no longer in effect.  The New and better Covenant is explicitly not a Covenant with a written ("letter") law.  Paul explicitly said -- repeatedly -- that law and Commandments are fulfilled by "Love your neighbor as yourself."

So I have come around to the view that any apparent "law" that cannot be easily shown to be a specific example of "Love your neighbor as yourself" is not universally applicable.  Homosexuality is self-evidently abnormal, in kind of the same sense that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a telephone jack, but that does not make it sinful.  Homosexual practice may well be sinful in specific cases, including but not limited to cases where the participants are objectified, or where one is abusive, but that does not make *all* homosexual behavior sinful.

   Folks, one can take a SIN, fold it up, spin it around, shake it, stir it, paint it purple and even call it "Bob," but this will never change the fact that it is indeed sin.

This is the sort of glib, flippant approach I myself would have taken several years ago, back in my more immature, carnal, legalistic fundy days.  Bravo.   ::applause::

Quote
" Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe; they will follow lying spirits and teachings that come from demons. These teachers are hypocrites and liars. They pretend to be religious, but their consciences are dead. They will say it is wrong to be married..."                + 1 TIMOTHY 4:1-3(a) +

Interestingly, the parts of that citation that you snipped show that its primary focus is opposing those who would IMPOSE unwarranted rules and restrictions.


Quote
   We are in grave danger when we refuse to acknowledge that sin is indeed sin, because in that refusal to accept truth; we make it impossible for the blood of Jesus to cover that sin. Sure it is easier on our conscience to find ways to validate or rationalize sin; but that does not remove sin, nor does it make the sin somehow "not sin." Homosexuality is no less sin than intentional deception, or stealing from others, or even maliciously committed murder...whether we wish to believe it or not. Our freedom to believe a lie will not change the fact that truth is still the truth.
   Now, to an extent you make a good point regarding the most important commandments; however, in so doing, you eradicate any foundation for your own argument. How can you truly love your neighbor if you willingly and intentionally contribute to their eternal destruction and outright deception regarding scripture? Truly, if one is obedient to this prime commandment, one will be dedicated to speaking truth and confronting the sin so that the "sinner," may accept that their action is indeed sin and turn from it; in order to receive salvation of their soul. Otherwise, one is simply blindly leading that sinner away from God, away from truth, and into eternal damnation. That my friend, is not love; but malicious hate; as one is imposing condemnation and death upon another; whether they do so intentionally or by accident as they are simply not aware of their participation.
   Brother, I am not saying you are intentionally misleading; I am not saying your heart is evil and you are purposely doing these things; I think you are simply misinformed and not seeing the truth that is apparent. You must come to realize the following to actually be living in truth my friend:

You err on several points:

-- You imply that I deny sin.  I do not.  But I do not believe all the things that YOU believe are sin, really are sin.

-- You imply that I have some preexisting desire to accept homosexuality, and thus seek ways to rationalize that belief.  This is not true.  I would have no problem calling homosexuality sin, if I were still convinced Scripture supported that view.

-- You misunderstand my application of the "Love your neighbor" Commandment.  It is not that my belief in loving my neighbor precludes me from declaring to homosexuals that their behavior is sin; it is that unless homosexual practice *itself* can be easily shown to be a violation of that "Love" Commandment, I don't believe it IS sinful.

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1) Homosexuality is sin. No matter how you cut it, no matter how you twist it, the scriptures are clear on this matter in many places; ESPECIALLY in the New Testament,(Post-Law period.) Without accepting this truth, it is impossible to receive grace and forgiveness.

Thanks for damning me.   ::clappingoverhead::

Rather hilariously, while you seem to find that I may be unforgiven and fallen from grace because I am unwilling to characterize all homosexual practice as sinful, *I* find, from the 1 Tim. 4 passage you cited, as well as Gal. 5, that it is those who seek to impose laws that are fallen from faith, fallen from grace, severed from Christ.

Also, bravo  ::applause:: again for, in true fundy fashion, accusing me of "twisting" Scripture.  I understand that it appears that way to you, but I assure you, I am not trying to abuse Scripture, I am trying to make sense of diverse teachings therein that are not easy to reconcile.

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2) Homosexuality is no "more sinful," than any other sin either; so others do well to stop acting like it is somehow a more grievous or penalty ridden sin than any other. What is good for the goose is good for the gander; if you wish to present this sin as sin, you do well to present other sin as equally sin or you also are not living in truth...period.

3) Let us realize that it is no longer SIN that is the primary issue; the SIN is covered by the blood of Christ once it is acknowledged, confessed and turned from in the heart; even if against the heart one struggles for a time in physically being free of the habitual chains besetting them.( IE see Romans 7:1-22). The issue is more state of the heart, intention of heart, direction of heart; and those things which cause/lead to sin. ( Please keep this principle IN CONTEXT it is NOT  a license to intentionally/unrepentantly continue in conscious sin.)

4) In the end folks, we are all equally prone to missing the mark, falling short, and simply having things incorrect. Let us just endeavor to promote peace, and remember that we are to gently and lovingly redirect; rather than "contend, bicker and brow-beat others into shape" All of us have had times where we meant well but simply didn't have everything "correct," and thus perhaps went about things the wrong way; I know I have. And I still have my moments..LOL! Don't get me wrong, I am far from perfect...far from the designated earthly authority on scripture. But that being said, the scripture is still clear on these things no matter who says what otherwise. May God grant us clarity on these matters.

If you look back again at my other posts in this thread, you may realize that I no longer find Scripture "clear" in many cases, including this one.  Or perhaps you could say that I find that it very "clearly" teaches different things, but does not give a "clear" way to reconcile and harmonize them.

Offline Alan

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #68 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 08:46:04 »
Surely God knows what's in our hearts; the degree of love we have for Him. And logic would suggest we aren't all able to love in precisely the same degree, so further logic would be that we do love with all our heart, soul, and mind- and He is pleased.


Precisely, and just to add to that, we cannot deceive God with a fabricated sense of love toward those that are differently than us. If we can truly absorb Mat 22 then we are able to face each one of these situations with empathy, compassion, and a helpful mind.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #69 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 09:01:20 »
Norrinradd let me get this right .Do you believe that puttin it up the backside is  a sin or not? excuse the rawness of this. Male on male
« Last Edit: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 09:05:01 by bemark »

 

     
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