Author Topic: I'm a homosexual  (Read 9778 times)

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crowcamp

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #70 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 09:28:23 »
Surely God knows what's in our hearts; the degree of love we have for Him. And logic would suggest we aren't all able to love in precisely the same degree, so further logic would be that we do love with all our heart, soul, and mind- and He is pleased.


Precisely, and just to add to that, we cannot deceive God with a fabricated sense of love toward those that are differently than us. If we can truly absorb Mat 22 then we are able to face each one of these situations with empathy, compassion, and a helpful mind.

Yes. He knows our true capabilities better than we know ourselves. We could say, "Lord, Lord, I've done all that I can", but He knows better- there's a problem.

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #70 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 09:28:23 »

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #71 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 09:57:53 »
Well, my two cents on this subject is that (as Christians tend to do) some are making this way to complicated.

What does Jesus tell us is the greatest commandment? Not equal to other commandments, not to be taken from a pool of commandments, but the greatest commandment? Come to a clear and sober understanding of that and you have answers for many issues that have been made far too complex in parsing the Word to create some rationalization. And this includes the issue homosexuality.


Well, could we not then edit the Bible to leave out the rest of the non-essential teachings? I will always agree with Mat 22, but that love comes with the desire to love God and His will for our lives.

There is no non-essential teachings in the Bible. My point exactly. IMO, the Word is to be taken as a whole, but there is a progression from pre-Christ to after Christ. Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets, but did not erase all laws as it relates to our relationship with God. What was an abomination to our Lord before Christ's sacrifice is still an abomination to Him. Sin has not been eradicated. Old Testament law was not the path to salvation in and of itself. It was dedication to the belief of the Redeemer yet to come expressed in the effort of upholding the old law to the best of one's ability. Christ, the Redeemer, gave His life for our sins and therefore fulfilled the old law; and, in doing so, fulfilled the prophecy.

Now, as a progression, some of the old law no longer applies. There is no requirement to sacrifice animals. The ultimate sacrifice has been completed. But that does not mean other law no longer applies.

That is not the sense I get from, e.g., Gal. 3, Eph. 2, Col. 2, and Heb. 7:12.  I get the sense that the entire Law was abolished, cancelled, nailed to the Cross, hung on the Tree, removed along with the Obsolete Covenant with which it was associated.

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We don't toss aside the Ten Commandments...

Sure we do.  The early Church moved their primary assembly day to the Lord's Day (the first of the week) rather than the Sabbath.  Paul explicitly announced liberty in regard to all holy days, including Sabbaths -- Rom. 14, Gal. 4:10, Col. 2.  So at the very least that part of The Ten was "tossed aside."  Elsewhere (Rom. 13) he showed that we don't need to memorize all Ten, we just need to follow half of Lev. 19:18.

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...
 or those things which God has made plain to us are an abomination to Him. We are still subject to the over riding sin nature that separates us from our Lord. A further now, just because we have accepted Jesus as our Savior does not mean we will not sin. He does not expect perfection from us in this fallen world. What He does expect, what illustrates our acceptance of Redemption, is the love we show for Him. Therefore, as Jesus tells us, the greatest Commandment is love for our Lord. "With all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind." With the best effort we can muster. Not to perfection, but with the best effort we can put forth.

So how do we love our Lord? With hugs? Buy Him gifts? Do His dishes? No, we love our Lord by pleasing Him. And we please Him by, with our best effort, not offending Him. Again, not by fulfilling old law that became moot with Christ's sacrifice, but by doing all we can to live in a manner that He has laid out as pleasing for Him. So, we cannot justify that which we know is an abomination to Him. Period. We are no more free to practice homosexuality than we are to go against any of His Commandments. And just to make it completely clear, I do not believe the homosexual is condemned to eternal death any more than I believe a murderer or adulterer is condemned to eternal death. It comes down to just how much actual heart, soul, and mind we put into pleasing Him- to loving Him.

That all sounds impressively holy and spiritual.  However, as it happens, Scripture gives some specific guidance as to what "pleases" God.  One such thing is "faith" (Heb. 11:6).  We might also reasonably suspect it "pleases" Him when we do just three things that He requires:  Do justice; love "chesed" (loyal merciful kindness); walk humbly with Him.

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Now, there's the standard argument that since Christ did not specifically express homosexuality as displeasing to our Lord, then it most be okay. Lots of things Christ did not specifically express as displeasing. Do we need some laundry list to identify such things, or are those displeasures expressed elsewhere in the Word? (I think everyone already know the answer to that) Christ is not specific on child abuse. Since He isn't, do we consider it to be okay; to be pleasing and loving towards our Lord?

That may be the "standard" argument, but it is not the one I would use.  The one I would use is that I don't see homosexual relationships as *necessarily* violating the One Commandment.  But child abuse is, tautologically, "abuse," and therefore a violation of "love."

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Finally, not the greatest Commandment, but the second one, "like it". Not equal to it- like it. After all, there can be only one "greatest". That commandment, "Love your neighbor as yourself".

Don't rest too heavily on that English translation.  The word translated "like" can indeed mean "the same as."  Luke 10:27 actually conflates those two Commandments into one.

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So, how do we love our neighbor? Hug them? Buy them gifts? Do their dishes? Perhaps those could be expressions of a love, but that's not the love Christ is talking about. Again, the entire Word matters and there is a progression. Love of God first, love of neighbor next. And note, "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two Commandments".

Even more, note that Jesus gave specific teaching about THE central lifestyle teaching of the entire Law and Prophets:  "Treat others as you wish others to treat you." (Luke 6:31).  I honestly cannot imagine a better "practical" explanation of "Love your neighbor as yourself."

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For our journey in this fallen world, for our path to Salvation and the eternal life with our Lord, these are the most important words Jesus ever spoke to us. The love of neighbor Jesus commands directly relates to His greatest Commandment, the love of our Lord. Although not directly stated (as it's not needed), with all our heart, soul, and mind we are to love our neighbor in a manner that brings them to love our Lord. The highest expression of love for neighbor is assisting them to love our Lord. And how does our neighbor love our Lord? By pleasing Him.

Again, very holy and spiritual.  Perhaps you should consider James.  He was yet another one who emphasized "Love your neighbor as yourself" (2:8).  That was the chapter where he talked about genuine saving faith and its relation to "works."  If you look at the kind of "works" he advocates, you find they are deeds of justice, mercy, generosity; IOW, they fulfill the "royal law."


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If we rationalize any sin as pleasing to our Lord, we are lost. If we fail in our attempts to love our Lord, but have actually made those attempts with all our heart, soul, and mind, then (again, IMO) we do not displease Him. Our sin burdens differ from person to person. We are not condemned for falling under a heavier weight than that placed on another. He does not demand perfection (obviously), he demands commitment and effort. We all backslide, all fall short, but are not condemned by that. Where we are condemned is in rationalizing since we can't be perfect, we need not even try. There was no perfection under the old law, and none now. God judged those subject to the old law not by their perfection, but by their effort. He does the same now.

He judges our "efforts"?  Really?  "Effort" is by definition "work."  I thought it was our faith, not work, that saves.


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As it relates to the topic of this thread, homosexuality is displeasing to our Lord. It cannot be excused. But it is not a death sentence. To try and fail in the effort to control any sin is not a death sentence. What is, is to rationalize not even trying. And what is, is to not love our neighbor in a manner that helps them as much in their efforts as we possibly can.

I no longer have confidence that it is necessarily sin.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #72 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 09:59:28 »
Norrinradd let me get this right .Do you believe that puttin it up the backside is  a sin or not? excuse the rawness of this. Male on male

I believe it is self-evidently subnormal, in sort of the same way that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a phone jack.  I don't believe it is necessarily "sin" in all cases.

Offline RB

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #73 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 10:46:45 »
I no longer have confidence that it is necessarily sin.
I want to reason with you from the word of God concerning this statement of your's~for I'm convinced that in any way one wants to consider sodomy IT IS WICKED an abomination in the sight of God Almighty.  I had already considered your strong desire to defend it before you ever came out clearly defending it.  But, since many people consider me already unloving and judgemental~I waited patiently knowing that my opportunity will come to speak. But still some will judge me, and allow lustful sodomites a free ride, and feel pity for them~but, we are living in the very days that Jesus Christ said would come.  I'm up to the battle. Btw, you are dead wrong about this as well:
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I get the sense that the entire Law was abolished, cancelled, nailed to the Cross, hung on the Tree, removed along with the Obsolete Covenant with which it was associated.
There is a sense in which this is true and a sense in which it is NOT. But, that would be taking us away from this thread, so I will stay on the subject under consideration. I'll be back later, do not go anywhere. 
« Last Edit: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 13:36:38 by RB »

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #73 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 10:46:45 »
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crowcamp

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #74 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 12:18:07 »
I'll leave it to those that wish to wander deeper into the weeds than I.

Greatest Commandment, love God. Second Commandment, love neighbor. Second best expressed in leading to the Greatest. I know, far too simplistic for some. So be it.  ::smile::




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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #74 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 12:18:07 »



bemark

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #75 on: Thu Oct 13, 2016 - 17:49:24 »
Norrinradd let me get this right .Do you believe that puttin it up the backside is  a sin or not? excuse the rawness of this. Male on male

I believe it is self-evidently subnormal, in sort of the same way that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a phone jack.  I don't believe it is necessarily "sin" in all cases.
I just dont understand what you mean. When would it not be sin?

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #76 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 02:11:49 »
Norrinradd let me get this right .Do you believe that puttin it up the backside is  a sin or not? excuse the rawness of this. Male on male

I believe it is self-evidently subnormal, in sort of the same way that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a phone jack.  I don't believe it is necessarily "sin" in all cases.
I just dont understand what you mean. When would it not be sin?

I think in a committed, monogamous, equitable relationship it might not be sin.

But in cases of promiscuity or cases where a stronger partner takes advantage of a weaker one, it probably IS sin.

Offline RB

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #77 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 04:59:33 »
I think in a committed, monogamous, equitable relationship it might not be sin. But in cases of promiscuity or cases where a stronger partner takes advantage of a weaker one, it probably IS sin.
The red emphasis are mine to help expose your opinions concerning sodomy being acceptable, which is clearly against the word of God, which all will be judged by~ our vain and sinful opinions will not serve us in that day, and truly only works against us while living in the flesh now~ and can only add troubles to our already troublesome life. In order to be acceptable and pleasing to God, we follow his wisdom to happiness and peace, not our fleshly desires. Sodomy is wicked, in any way you desire to present it, it is against nature, and the purpose for which we were created. It is unseemly using Paul's words from Romans one. One could much easier justify adultery than sodomy since lust toward the opposite sex works naturally within us all of us, who have not been given over to a reprobate mind in reference to the purpose of God in creating man and woman. God did not create two men, or two women as far as that goes and told them~ "You two work to be committed equally in this monogamous relationship" I'll come back later and let you know how you two can replenish the earth....! So foolish to even consider this Serino. I see why you would need to eliminate the OT from consideration since we have some direct commandments against the sin of Sodomy. The price of a dog is a price of a sodomite, that Israel was not allowed to bring into the house of God.
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Deuteronomy 23:18~"Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God."
The analogy of a sodomite and a dog is quite obvious to anyone who I've been around dogs checking out other dogs!  We have many scriptures where do you desire to start to defend your wicked belief that you stated above?
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Leviticus 18:22~"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Again:
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Leviticus 20:13~If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
In the NT:
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1st Corinthians 6:9~   "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind"
Again:
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1 Timothy 1:10~"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine"
True biblical love condemns SINS in others and will not allow them to indulge in sins without rebuking them!
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Leviticus 19:17~"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."









« Last Edit: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 06:20:57 by RB »

crowcamp

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #78 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 06:09:03 »
For purpose of illustration, let's say there is no God. The atheist is right and this all happened completely by chance. It's all just a "natural" phenomenon. Okay, within that natural, where does everything fit? What works and what doesn't? We take away moral, ethical, and spiritual guidance, so then just call all our shots based on a natural order. An order that maintains and sustains life. Where do the things that God calls an abomination fit in that? Do they promote the maintaining and sustaining, or do they harm those factors? Purely from scientific and the greater good of a society points of view, what works and what does not? Again, with no consideration of God's existence, what happens to mankind without restraint, without structure, without a natural order?

Offline Alan

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #79 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 07:27:40 »
Norrinradd let me get this right .Do you believe that puttin it up the backside is  a sin or not? excuse the rawness of this. Male on male

I believe it is self-evidently subnormal, in sort of the same way that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a phone jack.  I don't believe it is necessarily "sin" in all cases.
I just dont understand what you mean. When would it not be sin?

I think in a committed, monogamous, equitable relationship it might not be sin.

But in cases of promiscuity or cases where a stronger partner takes advantage of a weaker one, it probably IS sin.


What can you possibly base that on? I mean if you are giving a pass on SS relationships why would casual relations be separated and deemed sinful?

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #80 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 07:36:02 »
Norrinradd let me get this right .Do you believe that puttin it up the backside is  a sin or not? excuse the rawness of this. Male on male

I believe it is self-evidently subnormal, in sort of the same way that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a phone jack.  I don't believe it is necessarily "sin" in all cases.
I just dont understand what you mean. When would it not be sin?

I think in a committed, monogamous, equitable relationship it might not be sin.

But in cases of promiscuity or cases where a stronger partner takes advantage of a weaker one, it probably IS sin.


What can you possibly base that on? I mean if you are giving a pass on SS relationships why would casual relations be separated and deemed sinful?

The New Testament is clear even if one discounts the OT.  The long and short of it, is the Silver Surfer doesn't place confidence in scripture.  When you get to that point, eventually anything can go.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #81 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 10:03:50 »
I think in a committed, monogamous, equitable relationship it might not be sin. But in cases of promiscuity or cases where a stronger partner takes advantage of a weaker one, it probably IS sin.
The red emphasis are mine to help expose your opinions concerning sodomy being acceptable,

Assuming there is no difference between "acceptable" and "not sinful."


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which is clearly against the word of God,

Begging the question.

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which all will be judged by~ our vain and sinful opinions will not serve us in that day, and truly only works against us while living in the flesh now~ and can only add troubles to our already troublesome life. In order to be acceptable and pleasing to God, we follow his wisdom to happiness and peace, not our fleshly desires. Sodomy is wicked, in any way you desire to present it, it is against nature, and the purpose for which we were created.

I have already expressed that I find it to be self-evidently sub-normal, and used a charming ::disco:: little analogy in doing so.


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It is unseemly using Paul's words from Romans one. One could much easier justify adultery than sodomy since lust toward the opposite sex works naturally within us all of us, who have not been given over to a reprobate mind in reference to the purpose of God in creating man and woman. God did not create two men, or two women as far as that goes and told them~ "You two work to be committed equally in this monogamous relationship" I'll come back later and let you know how you two can replenish the earth....! So foolish to even consider this Serino.

Scenario?


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I see why you would need to eliminate the OT from consideration since we have some direct commandments against the sin of Sodomy.

Nice application of prejudicial assumption.  ::thumbup::  However, predictably, you have things bass-ackwards.  My increasing realization of the inapplicability of the Obsolete Covenant and its Law came first.

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The price of a dog is a price of a sodomite, ...

I'm not under the abolished Law of the Obsolete Covenant, so I'm going to go ahead and snip that portion.


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In the NT:
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1st Corinthians 6:9~   "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind"
Again:
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1 Timothy 1:10~"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine"

I have directly acknowledged already that certain passages of the NT directly condemn homosexuality.  In one of my first posts in this thread, I noted that in my fundier days, I took those explicit passages prima facie and interpreted them as universally applicable and binding, and consequently, basically treated the passages on love as the sum total of all the Commandments, and the many related passages, as kind of airy-fairy, pie in the sky idealism of little practical import.

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True biblical love condemns SINS in others and will not allow them to indulge in sins without rebuking them!
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Leviticus 19:17~"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."

Sure, but that is again begging the question.

You seem to be of the view that merely citing passages from the Bible makes a belief "biblical," and therefore sufficient.  I see my own position as "biblical," since I see the only operative Commandment to be "Love one another" or "Love your neighbor as yourself," and do not see any reason why homosexual love is, in and of itself, a violation of that.  Am I supposed to deny what I see in Scripture, or pretend I see something I don't?

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #82 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 10:08:15 »
For purpose of illustration, let's say there is no God. The atheist is right and this all happened completely by chance. It's all just a "natural" phenomenon. Okay, within that natural, where does everything fit? What works and what doesn't? We take away moral, ethical, and spiritual guidance, so then just call all our shots based on a natural order. An order that maintains and sustains life. Where do the things that God calls an abomination fit in that? Do they promote the maintaining and sustaining, or do they harm those factors? Purely from scientific and the greater good of a society points of view, what works and what does not? Again, with no consideration of God's existence, what happens to mankind without restraint, without structure, without a natural order?

I'm not sure why this should interest me, since the whole point of my involvement in the discussion is the "sin" aspect of homosexuality, and the pertinence of Scripture thereto.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #83 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 10:14:40 »
Norrinradd let me get this right .Do you believe that puttin it up the backside is  a sin or not? excuse the rawness of this. Male on male

I believe it is self-evidently subnormal, in sort of the same way that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a phone jack.  I don't believe it is necessarily "sin" in all cases.
I just dont understand what you mean. When would it not be sin?

I think in a committed, monogamous, equitable relationship it might not be sin.

But in cases of promiscuity or cases where a stronger partner takes advantage of a weaker one, it probably IS sin.


What can you possibly base that on? I mean if you are giving a pass on SS relationships why would casual relations be separated and deemed sinful?

Fair point.  And I will add that I would have to apply the same reasoning to "normal" (hetero) relationships.

I tend to think that "casual" sexual relationships are more likely to involve objectification.  Most people would not care to be viewed as "objects," though I suppose in the few cases where both parties are truly fine with that, the relationship might not be a violation of "Treat others as you wish others to treat you."

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #84 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 10:16:57 »
Norrinradd let me get this right .Do you believe that puttin it up the backside is  a sin or not? excuse the rawness of this. Male on male

I believe it is self-evidently subnormal, in sort of the same way that it is abnormal to try to jam a USB connector into a phone jack.  I don't believe it is necessarily "sin" in all cases.
I just dont understand what you mean. When would it not be sin?

I think in a committed, monogamous, equitable relationship it might not be sin.

But in cases of promiscuity or cases where a stronger partner takes advantage of a weaker one, it probably IS sin.


What can you possibly base that on? I mean if you are giving a pass on SS relationships why would casual relations be separated and deemed sinful?

The New Testament is clear even if one discounts the OT.  The long and short of it, is the Silver Surfer doesn't place confidence in scripture.  When you get to that point, eventually anything can go.

I have "gotten to the point" where I can no longer "place confidence" in Scripture having a "clear" unambiguous teaching on some issues, including this one.

crowcamp

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #85 on: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 10:49:15 »
For purpose of illustration, let's say there is no God. The atheist is right and this all happened completely by chance. It's all just a "natural" phenomenon. Okay, within that natural, where does everything fit? What works and what doesn't? We take away moral, ethical, and spiritual guidance, so then just call all our shots based on a natural order. An order that maintains and sustains life. Where do the things that God calls an abomination fit in that? Do they promote the maintaining and sustaining, or do they harm those factors? Purely from scientific and the greater good of a society points of view, what works and what does not? Again, with no consideration of God's existence, what happens to mankind without restraint, without structure, without a natural order?

I'm not sure why this should interest me, since the whole point of my involvement in the discussion is the "sin" aspect of homosexuality, and the pertinence of Scripture thereto.

It should interest you because even absent pertinent Scripture, actions presented as abominations are "sins" to the natural order. They do not offer any positive contribution to the evolution, or continuity, of life. In fact, those abominations are a removal of the positive.

As to another statement you make here, you say you see, "the only operative Commandment to be "Love one another" or "Love your neighbor as yourself," and do not see any reason why homosexual love is, in and of itself, a violation of that.  Am I supposed to deny what I see in Scripture, or pretend I see something I don't?"

 And yet you deny what you see in Scripture by considering only this Commandment to be "operative". The progression is, "greatest" then "second". Not separate or in reverse order (as you cannot put anything before "greatest") to create the narrative you wish, but to be taken in the order and magnitude in which He presents them.
« Last Edit: Fri Oct 14, 2016 - 11:20:19 by crowcamp »

Offline RB

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #86 on: Sat Oct 15, 2016 - 05:13:12 »
Assuming there is no difference between "acceptable" and "not sinful."
I used the word acceptable becuase of the way you worded your statement when you said:
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I think in a committed, monogamous, equitable relationship it might NOT be sin.
Now let me be clear based on God's view if mankind lying with a man as he would as woman that it is both UNACCEPTABLE and ABOMINATION in HIS SIGHT. Since it is an abomination in the sight of God, it is sinful and unacceptable, and against nature~PEROID~ Man's opinions are worthless and vain, in this matter being of this world, thereby devilish. To believe otherwise is to show that one has a reprobate mind.
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Begging the question.
Your words after I said:
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which is clearly against the word of God,
So, you believe that I have made a conclusion based on a premise that lacks support? Well, it does IF Miss Elton John is your  lover and the humanistic society in which we live is your god...both of which are an abomination according to THE Creator God of this world.
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Nice application of prejudicial assumption.  ::thumbup::  However, predictably, you have things bass-ackwards.  My increasing realization of the inapplicability of the Obsolete Covenant and its Law came first.
I'am very predictably just as you said....I BELIEVE GOD'S testimony and live by every word of it. Not perfectly, but with all of God children refuse to close my eyes to God's commandments in preference for my own ways and desires that the scriptures clearly condemns.
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prejudicial assumption.
Listen to the "slug calling a worm slimey"~I give God's word, and you give.....what? Nothing more than your own prejudicial assumptions, based own your wicked lust coming from your reprobate mind.
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My increasing realization of the inapplicability of the Obsolete Covenant
You added:
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I'm not under the abolished Law of the Obsolete Covenant, so I'm going to go ahead and snip that portion.
After I said:
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The price of a dog is a price of a sodomite, that Israel was not allowed to bring into the house of God.  Deuteronomy 23:18~"Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are an abomination unto the LORD thy God." The analogy of a sodomite and a dog is quite obvious to anyone who I've been around dogs checking out other dogs!  We have many scriptures where do you desire to start to defend your wicked belief that you stated above?
I'm sure all sodomites are easily converted when it comes to the totally abolishing of the OT scriptures. The laws of God in the OT that has to do with morality and love toward God and neighbor are ROYAL LAWS that are eternal laws governing our thoughts and deeds toward God and man. Many scriptures in the NT will support this. Saints are dead to the law through the body of Jesus Christ as far as seeking our justification through the law of works, that said... THIS DO and LIVE sin and DIE. Yet every person OUTSIDE of Jesus Christ are under the law...under the law of God as their ONLY hope of life~under its curse....eternal CONDEMNATION through Adam. Saints are NO LONGER under the condemnation of the law through Christ's perfect obedience for them. There is no standard of righteousness higher than the laws of God summed up in ten commandments given to Moses. They ARE our rule of righteousness to live by, and ALL saints delight in them and serve them, even though imperfectly because of sin within our members, yet, the love for them is there. Romans chapter seven. Enough for now.
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I have directly acknowledged already that certain passages of the NT directly condemn homosexuality.
New or OT, speaks STRONGLY against the wicked sin of Sodomy, and wicked it is. By saying that, I'm NOT saying that other sins are not wicked, for they are, yet Sodomy is right there as one of the most abominable sins that man can commit against the reveal will of God, who created us, with the purpose to procreate a godly seed between a man and a woman. If the NT directly condemns Sodomy, why would you find it acceptable, and still consider yourself a Christian? You are deceiving yourself, maybe the worst of all deceptions, and the hardest to overcome.
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You seem to be of the view that merely citing passages from the Bible makes a belief "biblical," and therefore sufficient.
I do not seem to be, I DO stand ONLY upon the scriptures~Jesus Christ said that man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that comes from God's mouth, I labor to do just that, and you would be wise to do the same.
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I see my own position as "biblical," since I see the only operative Commandment to be "Love one another" or "Love your neighbor as yourself," and do not see any reason why homosexual love is, in and of itself, a violation of that. 
Just as I said above...true biblical love is based upon the teachings of God's word. If God's word condemns something as a sin, then we MUST do likewise, of we are NOT loving God or our neighbour. I gave:
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Leviticus 19:17~"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."
When we refuse to speak out against what God's condemns, then we are showing hatred NOT love~ be not deceived by that lie of Satan. A lesson that our children learn later in life when they have children and have to correct them~the Lord correct those he loves, and so do we.
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Am I supposed to deny what I see in Scripture, or pretend I see something I don't?
You said:
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do not see any reason why homosexual love is, in and of itself, a violation of that
Sodomy love is LUST, not love! And it is wicked. Yours, and my opinion does not count, what does the word of God say, is what matters.
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Romans 1:24-27~"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
God does NOT call it love, but wicked LUST, working that which is unseemly.
« Last Edit: Sat Oct 15, 2016 - 05:18:08 by RB »

bemark

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #87 on: Mon Oct 17, 2016 - 02:10:46 »
RB you are right and NorrinRadd,  i just really struggle to see it your way when the word is clear on this matter . If you havent a standard that has been set,  then everything is acceptable,  even the unthinkable.

Offline littleoldme

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Re: I'm a homosexual
« Reply #88 on: Sat Nov 26, 2016 - 09:20:31 »
Thanks Danny for pointing out the obvious. Remind me to call you when my broken femur bone is poking out of my flesh so I can be sure what that awful pain is in my leg. I bet you work wonders with people on ledges.

That was good.