Author Topic: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?  (Read 2238 times)

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Offline Kevin397

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Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« on: Tue Apr 28, 2015 - 14:28:35 »
Many men have struggled with the sin of lust, but the question is, how much does God hold women accountable for how they dress?  I've heard the argument by some people, "Women can dress any way they want, and if a guy is lusting than that's their own problem."  That is completely one sided.  Dressing inappropriately should not be an excuse for a guy to sin against a woman in his heart, and that is why it is important to protect our eyes.  Yet at the same time, women need to learn how the respect themselves, and dressing inappropriately not only proves otherwise, but it disrespects God as well.  The bible tells us to honor our body.  The next time a women who likes dressing suggestively is about to go out, she should ask herself, "Will this please God?"   

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Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« on: Tue Apr 28, 2015 - 14:28:35 »

Offline Alan

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #1 on: Tue Apr 28, 2015 - 14:46:37 »
Agreed Kevin, men have natural tendencies to look at women, not gawking or lusting, but noticing. When women dress inappropriately we men are forced to uncomfortably stare at the ground until the coast is clear, we should not be made to do this amongst fellow believers, women should indeed dress modestly.


OTOH, when we are out in the world we most certainly do need to exercise self control regardless of how a woman is presenting herself.

Offline Kevin397

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #2 on: Tue Apr 28, 2015 - 15:27:37 »
Well said.

Buster D Body Crab

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Apr 28, 2015 - 17:31:12 »
I wouldn't think a Christian woman would have an issue with dressing immodestly. The question then as to whether her attire would please God would be a given I'd think. While non-Christian women aren't concerned with that standard at all.

I think we'll always see women dressing sexy. So the question for a Christian man I think would be, would my thoughts about this woman please God?


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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Apr 28, 2015 - 17:31:12 »
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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 05:14:25 »
My wife and I were talking to a friend of ours last night.  She works as an assistant in a law office.  She was sharing something the Lord was showing her recently about how we are in a disposable society.  Contact lenses are disposable. Food and the containers are disposable.  Relationships including marriage are disposable.  Everyone thinks of "Me" instead of "Us."

The OP's statement "Women can dress any way they want, and if a guy is lusting than that's their own problem;"  is a good example of that kind of individualistic and disposing line of thought.  When asked about Able, Cain replied "Am I my brother's keeper?" IOW he wanted to bear no responsibility for what his brother was doing or where he was at.   But the unsaid answer to that question is "YES." We do have a responsibility for each other.

So if a woman (or a man) dresses in a way that elicits lust in someone, they bear that responsibility. We are our brother's (and sister's) keeper.

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 05:14:25 »



Offline Kevin397

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #5 on: Sat May 02, 2015 - 19:18:17 »
My wife and I were talking to a friend of ours last night.  She works as an assistant in a law office.  She was sharing something the Lord was showing her recently about how we are in a disposable society.  Contact lenses are disposable. Food and the containers are disposable.  Relationships including marriage are disposable.  Everyone thinks of "Me" instead of "Us."

The OP's statement "Women can dress any way they want, and if a guy is lusting than that's their own problem;"  is a good example of that kind of individualistic and disposing line of thought.  When asked about Able, Cain replied "Am I my brother's keeper?" IOW he wanted to bear no responsibility for what his brother was doing or where he was at.   But the unsaid answer to that question is "YES." We do have a responsibility for each other.

So if a woman (or a man) dresses in a way that elicits lust in someone, they bear that responsibility. We are our brother's (and sister's) keeper.

You are correct. One thing that comes to mind as an example for me, are those Victoria Secret ads that use to play on TV a few years back. Every time they would show up, I would change the channel.

Offline WilliamGoode

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #6 on: Mon May 18, 2015 - 21:16:47 »
I feel the same way, that everywhere you look, women are dressed too provocatively.  I tend to blame the media, though.  I think that the image that they keep forcing upon all of us, not just women, is to choose sex and sexiness over having real relationships.  It's sad, really.

Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #7 on: Mon May 25, 2015 - 03:08:31 »
I don't know how liberating this information will be, but knowing it will help many like myself who struggle daily with lust / temptation.

Regarding it being hard to deal with... this life is the most hell believers in Jesus Christ will ever know. At the same time it will be the most heaven unbelievers will ever know.

Yes women should dress more modestly. But do not expect much help there.

Yes lust is a sin. There IS a help in Jesus Christ.

  1 John 1:5–2:17 (NASB95)
  5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
  6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
  7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
  8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
  9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
  10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
  1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
  2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
  3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
  4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
  5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
  6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
  7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
  8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
  9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
 11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
 12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
 14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
 15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
 17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 27, 2015 - 22:51:22 by Alan »

Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #8 on: Mon May 25, 2015 - 03:16:34 »
Well, gee, brother, thanks for the help???

There's more.

Post one was the solution up front. The forgiveneness in Christ is already ours when we confess our sins (face them agree they are sins) and by so doing fulfill the perfection of God's love for his people.

Next to the nitty gritty... that which we get beaten over the head with so much of the time by ourselves and by others...
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 27, 2015 - 22:51:54 by Alan »

Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #9 on: Mon May 25, 2015 - 03:40:01 »
The clobbering time Bible text:

Matthew 5:27–30 (NASB95)
27“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’;
28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29“If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
30“If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

First off, we have to remember this was before the the New Covenant was in effect. the record is in the New Testament, but it is under the Old Covenant which was still in effect at the time. Hebrews 9:26-27 clearly teaches that no testament is in effect until the death of the testator.

Secondly, Jesus was referring to the Old Covenant, in effect putting the Law of Moses back on track from where the Jewish religious leaders had derailed it. The Law was meant to convict men of sin, not save them from it except that it pointed the way to the cross by divulging the utter futility of any other way. Keeping the Law perfectly when nothing less would do includes never lusting after a female no matter what she is or is not wearing. And in almost all cases it cannot be done.

Thirdly, Jesus was answering the various schools of theology who muddied the waters and / or weakened the Law of Moses by grading on the curve, or by making its temporal atonements out to be total salvation solutions (and they were not nor were they ever meant to be). Rabbi Hillel (grandfather of Gamaliel) in his school of thought taught that a woman who beared her hair or her legs before men who were not her husband even if by accident was considered an adultress.

This he based on:

Leviticus 18:8 (NASB95)
8‘You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness.

Isaiah 47:1–3 (AV)
1Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.
2Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers.
3Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

This is what Jesus responded to:

Matthew 5:27–30 (NASB95)
27“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’;
28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29“If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
30“If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Notice! Jesus did not refute Hillel. He simply reminded the teaching that it was one sided. Hillel got Leviticus 18:8 and Isaiah 47:1-3 correct. But he forgot all about:

Job 31:1–13 (NIV84)

1[/sup]“I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl.
2[/sup]For what is man’s lot from God above, his heritage from the Almighty on high?
3[/sup]Is it not ruin for the wicked, disaster for those who do wrong?
4[/sup]Does he not see my ways and count my every step?
5[/sup]“If I have walked in falsehood or my foot has hurried after deceit—
6[/sup]let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless—
7[/sup]if my steps have turned from the path, if my heart has been led by my eyes, or if my hands have been defiled,
8[/sup]then may others eat what I have sown, and may my crops be uprooted.
9[/sup]“If my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbor’s door,
10[/sup]then may my wife grind another man’s grain, and may other men sleep with her.
11[/sup]For that would have been shameful, a sin to be judged.
12[/sup]It is a fire that burns to Destruction; it would have uprooted my harvest.
13[/sup]“If I have denied justice to my menservants and maidservants when they had a grievance against me,
The other side of the coin!

Strange how today we take Jesus' Matthew 5:27-30 response to a one sided teaching against women and use it as a one sided teaching against men. As if women could wear or not wear all they want but don't you look, Johnny! Ohhh don' cha dare!

In fact both Matthew 5:27-30 and Leviticus 18:8 / Isaiah 47:1-3 are excellent teachings to convict us of sin and then as Christians confess (1 John 1:5 - 2:17) and move on. But they are not the stumbling blocks in the New Covenant that they were (along with the rest of the Law) in the Old Covenant.

And brothers, THAT'S a big part of the Gooood News!!! 
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 27, 2015 - 22:55:53 by Alan »

Offline Renal

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jun 29, 2015 - 00:20:11 »
My girlfriend dresses quite modestly but due to her appearance ( the size of her breasts ) mostly she gets the same kind of looks from men no matter what she wears so im not sure really what she can do at that point. Men are men i guess.

Offline Red Baker

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jun 29, 2015 - 03:57:25 »
So the question for a Christian man I think would be, would my thoughts about this woman please God?

Good point.  A woman can dress very moderately, and man could still lust at her natural beauty; at the way she carry's herself; by the way she talks with her body actions; etc.   Example:

Quote
Proverbs 6:25~"Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids."

In this one scripture you have two things that a man can fall for~a woman's beauty, and her body actions toward you, both could cause a good man to fall lustings...nothing is said of the way she dress, even though that just adds fuel to the burning lust.

A man’s eyes see a woman’s beauty in a second. Thus far there is no sin. But three sinful stages follow that are a prelude to adultery. The eyes linger and move to fascination with the details of her beauty, the heart moves from nobly admiring to hungrily desiring her, and the soul becomes willing to the invitation of her eyes.

So Buster's words are well said.

Quote
but shouldn't women dress modestly?

Yes............I will add~ it is the duty of father's, and grandfather's to exhort their daughters to dress moderately.  Men know more than women concerning the thoughts of men toward women. If they knew, they would think that we are a wild beast.

Offline JustThinkingALittleMore

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #12 on: Thu Jul 02, 2015 - 09:23:12 »
Wow guys some good thoughts...when I used to run across a gal not dressed modestly, I would try to immediately pray for them or say a memorized Bible verse...this is for my benefit.

Context in this subject is important...if we are out in the world it may mean there are places where we may have the "right" to go; however, we don't go in order to keep our thoughts pure (I.e., mixed swimming)...I used to howl at the ridiculous "fundies" who wouldn't allow mixed bathing as a "young" believer but as I matured in the knowledge of the Word I found myself being able to empathize with people who I cut zero slack.

So today, as I look back over my shoulder I believe one of the biggest errors we in the evangelical church committed was "seeker friendly" for when we (I) embraced this approach to outreach we jettisoned all forms of church discipline for we didn't want to drive these lost people away do we? So our Churches lost their saltiness and stopped dealing with leaven. 

I could also swerve into how my thought life when it comes to this area of defeat cleared up once I threw all my precious "contemporary" worship music away; however, I just joined and don't want to get run out of town with pitchforks...maybe another day when I'm wearing my running shoes.

"Thy Word have I hid in my heart that I may not sin against Thee"...bottom line...stay in the Word...think about it, pray about it, turn it over in your mind...it truly is the Word of God.

Offline Jon-Marc

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #13 on: Sun Sep 27, 2015 - 22:53:11 »
The way women are dressed does not excuse men from their lust. Like any normal man, I notice when a woman is showing a lot of her breasts. However, I have never lusted after a woman. Maybe I'm confused as to what lust is, but to me it means wanting to have sex with her. Enjoying the beauty of a woman's body is not lust to me; wanting that body in bed IS. Sex with women I wasn't married to was far from my mind and not something I ever did or wanted to do. My first time was on my wedding night at age 22, and my last time was shortly before we separated when I was 27. In my 30's I completely lost what little sex drive I had--so lust has never been a problem for me.

Offline Bibliophile

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #14 on: Mon Oct 05, 2015 - 11:08:12 »
It sounds a bit like our poster wants to blame women for his sin. Should women dress modestly to please God? Scripture would indicate yes. However, the only person responsible for your sin, is you. If you know that looking at scantily clad women causes you to lust, then you've made the first step. You've identified the problem. The next step is correcting it. But that is your responsibility. God can help. The Holy Spirit is already convicting you. Learn to avert your eyes. Try to anticipate places, events, positions that would place you in compromising positions. Pray for strength and guidance. Seek an accountability partner or group. You can defeat this.

Offline TravelerFarAwayFromHome

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #15 on: Fri Nov 06, 2015 - 18:17:24 »
Many men have struggled with the sin of lust, but the question is, how much does God hold women accountable for how they dress?  I've heard the argument by some people, "Women can dress any way they want, and if a guy is lusting than that's their own problem."  That is completely one sided.  Dressing inappropriately should not be an excuse for a guy to sin against a woman in his heart, and that is why it is important to protect our eyes.  Yet at the same time, women need to learn how the respect themselves, and dressing inappropriately not only proves otherwise, but it disrespects God as well.  The bible tells us to honor our body.  The next time a women who likes dressing suggestively is about to go out, she should ask herself, "Will this please God?"   

I see what you mean

but here the thing though

the standard apply to men and women seem so different

I mean in the summer, I see young guy go shirtless all the time in places like parks

should they be ordered to put their shirts back on because they are not respecting themselves and are inciting lust in women?

Offline Kevin397

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #16 on: Tue Jan 26, 2016 - 16:34:15 »
Many men have struggled with the sin of lust, but the question is, how much does God hold women accountable for how they dress?  I've heard the argument by some people, "Women can dress any way they want, and if a guy is lusting than that's their own problem."  That is completely one sided.  Dressing inappropriately should not be an excuse for a guy to sin against a woman in his heart, and that is why it is important to protect our eyes.  Yet at the same time, women need to learn how the respect themselves, and dressing inappropriately not only proves otherwise, but it disrespects God as well.  The bible tells us to honor our body.  The next time a women who likes dressing suggestively is about to go out, she should ask herself, "Will this please God?"   

I see what you mean

but here the thing though

the standard apply to men and women seem so different

I mean in the summer, I see young guy go shirtless all the time in places like parks

should they be ordered to put their shirts back on because they are not respecting themselves and are inciting lust in women?

I understand this is an old topic, but it's been continuing on an off for months now, so I will chime in, as it is very interesting. 

Anyways, in response to what you said; think of it this way.  Women have a different shape than men, so when they dress suggestively, it is a lot easier for them to show off their assets, unlike a man who can only "expose" himself by going shirtless.  Plus, there's a difference between going shirtless on a hot summer day, and someone taking off their shirt to try and turn on women around them.
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 26, 2016 - 16:42:03 by Kevin397 »

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jan 26, 2016 - 16:51:20 »
If we're gonna be honest, the amish would consider a woman in shorts or a shirt that shows a little chest (yet no cleavage) to be immodest, and I am sure some young lads in those areas would have their jivvies tempted. On the opposite side, I think it would be different in a place like Hawaii or the beach of Brazil where you can totally expect both women and men to be in swimwear all the time.

Offline gardenia

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #18 on: Tue Jun 21, 2016 - 17:17:29 »
I knew a young Christian woman at work once that dressed conservatively and business- like. She put her hair in a bun and she wore reading glasses. She looked like a librarian, and never called for any attention from anyone. Unbeknownst to her, a new coworker, a married man, took a fancy to her and started flirting with her and coming on to her. She did not understand why this was happening to her. She was very upset because meanwhile next door in the next aisle of cubicles, sat a woma,n who had a much more shapely body than her and dressed provocatively with low cut tops. Why did he not bother her instead .  I hope that answers the question, because I think it makes it a little more complicated than just always blaming the woman.

Offline 7angels

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Re: Lust is a sin, but shouldn't women dress modestly?
« Reply #19 on: Mon Jun 27, 2016 - 11:53:53 »
todd white would say that if you lust after someone that you do not know yourself.  if you knew yourself then why would it bother you?  it could be one of several reasons like one you have not conquered that area in your self.  second your stuck in religious beliefs.   third you have pride.  the list could go on and on. 

you guys like to mention all these reasons why women should be careful of how they dress.  however did you ever think about how you dress?  what about when we work outside without a shirt on or wear tight shirts to show off our muscles or wear shorts that show our legs?   i won't even mention some of the skimpy bathing suits men are starting to wear.  how many of you actually know what it is that woman sees in us that causes them to lust for us?  what do you do about it?

the thing is, we should be mature enough in Christ to not lust after a woman just because of what she is wearing.  if you are then it shows us how much growing you still need to do.  also most church going women do dress modestly.  so this thread must be aimed at those unsaved mostly right?  my question is then why are you not doing something about it and bring these people to Christ?  if you are then are you shoving Christ down their throats or are you loving on them? 

most christians are hypocrites because they talk the talk but do not walk the walk.  do you know that 6 out of 10 church kids leave the church when they come of age?  why is this do you wonder?  Proverbs 22:6 - Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.  so if we are training a kid as they are supposed to be taught as a child why are they leaving?  is the bible a lie or are parents doing a poor job of raising their kids? 

so what do you think this world would be like if we all put God first and treated everyone else as we ourselves would like to be treated? 

God bless
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 27, 2016 - 11:58:31 by 7angels »