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Offline rgrove0172

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masturbation to keep the peace
« on: Sun Apr 10, 2011 - 20:39:53 »
Hello gentleman, a touchy and personal topic here.

My wife and I have vastly differing labidos apparently. Its been this way through almost 15 years of marriage. I feel the need for sexual release 4-5 times a week, she is receptive perhaps once a month and instigates a coupling maybe a couple times a year. Please, dont waste your time suggesting counceling or therapy for her. Shes a well adjusted and healthy young woman in her 30s. She just isnt into sex that much. When she is, its fine, but obviously we arent in sinc.

In order to put the continous conversations about rejection and crap to rest after the first few years of marriage I took to just 'helping myself' several times a week to keep the edge off. When we do get together its great and Im not so pent up it become some marked marathon event! Im also not miserable every day, which is how I spent the first few years trying to avoid indulging.

The trouble? Guilt. As a christian surely this cant be right? Im not going to lie and say every thought in my head is about my wife during masturbation, Im mean come on. Ive fallen prey to porn from time to time, then avoided it on and off for years. Thats really not the issue. The issue is am I fooling around on my wife by having a sexual encounter, albiet solo one, without her knowledge on a regular basis and am I sacrificing my christian principles to do so?

If so... what the heck is a guy supposed to do? Ive spoken to her about it (believe me!) numerous times and she is sympathetic but please, the girl cant have sex on demand, no should she be expected to 'manually' service me on a regular basis should she?

Help?

Offline Nathanael

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #1 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 05:58:33 »
Hi rgrove. Bless you, and sorry for your difficulties. I totally relate. I was married for 15 years to a woman whom I was very attracted to, and even as a young couple in our twenties, sex was barely on the agenda for her. I experienced that same rejection and confusion you mention, and also had numerous conversations with my wife. I would keep my hurt under wraps for months on end, but it would always erupt with a brief period of 'DIY' , sometimes using porn, and sometimes a very unhealthy resentful and 'I am being unfaithful with this porn, and my wife deserves it ! she has thrown me on the garbage heap like so much junk, I am not a man in her eyes, just invisible junk..blah blah..."

Anyways...suffice to say my actions were very damaging to me and to our marriage. No amount of justification due to her coldness (not just lack of sex, no kissing and hand holding either) made it ok and gave me peace.

Trust me brother, you are merely putting a band-aid on a serious wound, and under its cover the wound grows ever more infected. Eventually I ran off with a woman who was interested in me as a man, and destroyed myself and my family. I am not saying you will do that, but I am saying that your self prescribed 'medication' will not fix this issue, it will merely cause you awful turmoil, as you are already experiencing.

"Ive spoken to her about it (believe me!) numerous times and she is sympathetic but please, the girl cant have sex on demand, no should she be expected to 'manually' service me on a regular basis should she?"

Yes ! Your wife's body does not belong to her alone. And a husbands body belongs to his wife. niether should deny the other's reasonable needs. YES she should meet your needs. It part of what love is about. God has given sex as a MAJOR way to express and underpin the unique bond between a wife and husband. Sometimes ill health forces us to manage without, but this kind of disparity between you and your wife is damaging. You know that already, you are feeling its affects ! If your wife knows that you feel rejected and yet still refuses to develop this part of your lives together, well, that aint love in action I am afraid.

Now something else very important. Please do examine your own behaviour. Is there anything that is causing your wife to be so distant and sparing in her intimacy with you? What has she said to you in response to your distress? Are you LISTENING to her heart? Husbands MUST lead the way in loving their wives sacrificially, being extravagent in devotion, quitting any selfishness that overlooks his wife's needs. I am not accusing you, just wanting you to be able to clear the ground and remove any obstacles. Sexual distancing can be a symptom of resentment and hurt. Be willing to explore any and every barrier, if indeed there are any. My ex wife had deep physcological issues going back to her childhood, it played a big part in destroying our intimacy. Thats another thing to consider. Is your wife as well balanced as you think? Perhaps she needs some help with her attitude to sex. Husbands and wives are meant to fancy each other and want to get up close and personal on a regular basis !

Lastly, of course we should never expect or demand that our wives meet our every sexual requirement. (I am not saying you are, just covering the bases) Husbands who want, ideally, intimate physical stuff 5 times a week may need to learn to manage with once a week. Love's demand is bigger than our sexual needs. But your wife initiating things only twice a year is not reasonable. Unless there are issues between you or within herself. In which case they need bringing into the light and sorting. Your DIY solution is no solution. I say this from love, wanting better for you and your marriage, and as one who has learnt via the very hardest and costliest way what NOT to do.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 06:05:21 by Nathanael »

Offline Apothecary 4 Christ

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #2 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 08:33:22 »
Hello gentleman, a touchy and personal topic here.

My wife and I have vastly differing labidos apparently. Its been this way through almost 15 years of marriage. I feel the need for sexual release 4-5 times a week, she is receptive perhaps once a month and instigates a coupling maybe a couple times a year. Please, dont waste your time suggesting counceling or therapy for her. Shes a well adjusted and healthy young woman in her 30s. She just isnt into sex that much. When she is, its fine, but obviously we arent in sinc.

In order to put the continous conversations about rejection and crap to rest after the first few years of marriage I took to just 'helping myself' several times a week to keep the edge off. When we do get together its great and Im not so pent up it become some marked marathon event! Im also not miserable every day, which is how I spent the first few years trying to avoid indulging.

The trouble? Guilt. As a christian surely this cant be right? Im not going to lie and say every thought in my head is about my wife during masturbation, Im mean come on. Ive fallen prey to porn from time to time, then avoided it on and off for years. Thats really not the issue. The issue is am I fooling around on my wife by having a sexual encounter, albiet solo one, without her knowledge on a regular basis and am I sacrificing my christian principles to do so?

If so... what the heck is a guy supposed to do? Ive spoken to her about it (believe me!) numerous times and she is sympathetic but please, the girl cant have sex on demand, no should she be expected to 'manually' service me on a regular basis should she?

Help?

Dear rgrove,

Though all Christians can and should sympathize with other believers...I suspect you have found that there are very few Christian men who really get what you are saying.  Let me see if I understand your situation.  If so, I may be able to offer some help.

1)  You feel trapped.  You got married because that is the Biblical approach to dealing with the normal desire for intimacy.  But you are married...and this drive is not being satisfied.  You see no real grounds for divorce, and probably don't really want a divorce.  You love you wife.  And, in many ways, she loves you too.  But this vitally important aspect of your marriage has never been a priority for her.  And so you are stuck.

2) You feel like no one really understands.  Your wife doesn't understand.  Not really.  But also, I suspect, you have asked around and read Christian books on marriage to try and get some advice.  These books all have chapters on marriage and intimacy.  They pretty much say the same thing:  If you listen to your wife, do romantic things, help out with the house, kids, etc....then...she will respond with physical intimacy.  You have tried.  It doesn't work.   You have tried to make her pleasure a priority.  She doesn't really need it...so this doesn't work either.  You hear about marriage problems that other Christians have...and frankly...they seem like NOTHING compared to this.  You know other couples have intimacy issues too...but these are often due to things that don't apply in your case (e.g. an affair occurs, prior abuse or trust issues, physical handicaps or simply an inconsiderate and selfish spouse). 

3) You feel helpless.  You are stuck with guilty feelings from burning lust, and its consequences on the one hand...and a non-responsive wife on the other hand.  Sometimes you get angry inside.  Maybe angry as God or at your spouse or even at yourself.  You know there are spiritual issues involved in this problem.  But it is partly also a physical problem...from which there is no apparent escape. 

Am I hitting anywhere near the mark?  I would like to know if I have understood you before offering any help.  I believe this is important in counseling...even "cyber" counseling.

Let me know.

Blessings,
Jason

Offline zoonance

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 08:51:35 »
The only real difference between christian men and nonchristian men is the presence of Christ!  I think we understand.  However, it is true that most christian pastoring involves the idea that "if you will romance her...and do the dishes" she won't be able to walk for a week as a result of the passionate response.  Appetites do vary.  There can be lots of reasons why this may be so and unless every avenue is explored, "healthy and well adjusted" may not be true!  Or it might be.   Part of your sense of guilt as that the five fingered maiden is cheating on your wife.  That may be true.  It certainly can be.  What if she knew you were respecting her appetite by relieving the stress of not having her feel guilty about that by servicing yourself?   What if you found out she prefers her self as well? But, maybe, it is an acceptable substitute to uninvited sharing with the fruit of the blooms in the middle of the night.  If intimacy with the mano is a permanent substitute to the maiden, I would wonder if there really wasn't something else going on.   If there really isn't, then there really isn't.  Furthermore, she may very well turn into a sex goddess in her 40's and 50's and....  You may have serious dessert coming up!

Offline Bernie 2

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #4 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 09:13:19 »
Well now now listen.  Let us keep a calm perspective whilst we figure this one out. 
Young man, I would not be so judgmental towards your wife because you may find a time in which you lose interest for a while.   Have you thought about that?  The tables might be turned and it is her that incited with the flames of passion but you'll be feeling like a cold fish.   
Another thing to keep in mind is asking your wife if she would like to help you?  Have you considered her feelings on this?   Have you asked your wife to help you in your little hobby there?  If she is helping you, I would be willing to bet you that you won't be saying no.   
Good luck young man and may God be with you.   Let us know how things turn out. 
Bernie

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #4 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 09:13:19 »



Offline rgrove0172

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #5 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 13:27:34 »
Jason - WOW! Your not only on the mark but hitting dead center. I wont bore everyone with a recap of your message but you hit many of my experiences and feelings dead on. Its incredibly frustrating as it doesnt appear to be a real issue to anyone but ME! My wife is fine in our relationship, passing me off as just being a "typical man" when I do complain. Other stress that sex 'isnt everything' and that I should just adapt. Most books and such make suggestions Ive already tried with no real improvement.

Im left very lost. I have no desire or even a temptation to look elsewhere for sexual fulfillment. Ive found my answer, so to speak, in a seemingly harmless personal few minutes... but is it harmless? Wheres the guilt coming from? Is it founded?

Offline rgrove0172

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #6 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 13:32:38 »
Thanks Bernie, I actually have considered the possibility of a reversal. We've been together for 15 years howwever and there is no sign of a change. Im 46 and Im sure there is a slowdown in my future at some point but my wife is only 34, she is supposed to be hitting her prime.. isnt she?

As to asking her to help, I have...and she has - on occasion - but its a chore of love and responsibility, or at least thats what it seems. There is certainly no real joy in it (from her perspective) and hense is just embarrasing and to me. If she isnt "into it" then its not really worth the time. The slight hesitation and even a bit of a sigh when I ask her is message enough. "oh boy, again?"

I dont think I would want to be approached with something likethat constantly, so I try to just leave her alone.

Offline tennman

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #7 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 14:35:17 »
Rgrove, Paul said that one should not deprive the other (1 Corinthians 7). It sure sounds like she's depriving you. If she commits to 4-5 times per week and that acually happens, it's very likely her labido will increase.

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #8 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 14:43:16 »
I was a sex addict trying to get my drug met by my wife. When that did not happen i turned to porn. Several years later God got me out of that, but the damage had been done. I still have a strong sex drive, but no one to use it on. so I had to learn to abstain. It's tough sometimes. I pray for a mate, but in the meantime no porn, no fantasies, they only bring pain.

Even the smallest hint of immorality can have devestating results on the intamancy of a marriage. The wife will know something is wrong and may not be sure why.

before a male is married he is suppose to abstain. We may need to abstain during marriage due to going to war, low female lebido, sickness, kids needs, etc..

 Abstenance and self control is tough but i don't think the Lord likes our excuses. When we mess up, we tell Him "we messed up" and try to do better.

Not, "my wife won't give me sex". That sounds like Adam in the garden blaming Eve.  The excuses are a condition of the heart. I'm as guilty as anyone for doing that.

I know God cares about our sexual needs. He does not give us more than we can handle. Hang in there.

Offline Thankfulldad

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #9 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 14:50:38 »
Thanks Bernie, I actually have considered the possibility of a reversal. We've been together for 15 years howwever and there is no sign of a change. Im 46 and Im sure there is a slowdown in my future at some point but my wife is only 34, she is supposed to be hitting her prime.. isnt she?

As to asking her to help, I have...and she has - on occasion - but its a chore of love and responsibility, or at least thats what it seems. There is certainly no real joy in it (from her perspective) and hense is just embarrasing and to me. If she isnt "into it" then its not really worth the time. The slight hesitation and even a bit of a sigh when I ask her is message enough. "oh boy, again?"

I dont think I would want to be approached with something likethat constantly, so I try to just leave her alone.

Paul tells us we lust and we cannot have.  I lived 23 years lusting after my ex-wife and I could never have her.  I blew it doing exactly as you are.

If given another chance...I would pursue my wife with reckless abandon through Christ.  Love her as Christ loved His church and gave Himself up for her.  She would know, without a doubt...that she was the only one!  There would be no porn, no lust, no self pity, NO MASTERBATION, no doubt in each of our minds of the pure love that I would have for her.  I would put God first...and see nothing but His grace in myself (for the years of destruction I caused) and grace for her...for the withholding she had done.

Pursue her like never before, with the love God gives you through His Spirit...and never give into temptation; satan is a liar and deceiver...don't give him a second of your precious time!
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 15:21:46 by Thankfulldad »

Offline Apothecary 4 Christ

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #10 on: Mon Apr 11, 2011 - 17:19:52 »
Jason - WOW! Your not only on the mark but hitting dead center. I wont bore everyone with a recap of your message but you hit many of my experiences and feelings dead on. Its incredibly frustrating as it doesnt appear to be a real issue to anyone but ME! My wife is fine in our relationship, passing me off as just being a "typical man" when I do complain. Other stress that sex 'isnt everything' and that I should just adapt. Most books and such make suggestions Ive already tried with no real improvement.

Im left very lost. I have no desire or even a temptation to look elsewhere for sexual fulfillment. Ive found my answer, so to speak, in a seemingly harmless personal few minutes... but is it harmless? Wheres the guilt coming from? Is it founded?


rgrove,

Okay.  Glad my arrows hit the mark. 

I still have to make some assumptions.  I could be a bit off on some of them.  But I suspect I'm not too far off.  For instance, I'm assuming your wife, like you, is a believer.  I'm assuming that your wife did not have a radical change in her sex drive at some point (in other words...I'm assuming it has pretty much always very low).  I'm assuming there are not any major sin issues for which true Biblical forgiveness and restoration needs to occur (e.g. adultery, abuse, etc.).  I'm assuming your wife may have, at some point, mentioned this problem to a doctor and has been evaluated for any medical problems that could be contributing to this.  And I'm assuming your wife actually knows what the Bible says about her marital responsibilities toward you in this way.

That is a lot of assumptions.  But like I said, I suspect most are correct.  If I'm way off, please tell me.

Alright, so I'll give you my advice if you want it.  You may not like it.  But I can tell you I have seen cases like this improve.  It isn't a quick fix.  There is no magic wand or secret prayer.  What I will share with you is, I believe, a Biblically based approach to your problem.

1)  You feel guilty because you are guilty.  You are looking...hoping...for an escape hatch by means of helping yourself.  But you know full well that this escape hatch will ALWAYS be associated with movement into sinful patterns of lust and thoughts which God hates.  It is a dead end.  Stop trying to justify it.  You are wasting precious time that could be spent improving this aspect of your marriage.  Colossians 3:5-7 is God's perspective on sexual sins.  The words Paul uses include broad terms like "fornication" and "passion" and "evil desire."  Paul ends this section with these words "because of these things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience."

I'm telling you this because if you don't come to grips with this you will never see improvement. 

2) You must immediately begin to commit yourself to a CAREFUL evaluation of your habits/actions with the intention of making progress in overcoming associated sins:  pornography and masturbation.

Please understand me.  You will NOT...apart from a miracle...overcome these overnight.  What I am telling you right now is that TODAY you need to begin keeping track....meticulously...of your habits with respect to these things.  You will need to write down EVERY time (I recommend a 3x5 card or something) you fall back into one of these.  Every time.

You will grow to hate that 3x5 card.  You will hate me for ever telling you this.  You will be tempted MANY times to quit recording these things because it just makes you feel worse.  I am telling you right now...you MUST persevere.  I suggest 2 months of this.  It will NOT be easy. 

Both of these (pornography and masturbation) will hurt you spiritually...but the first is worse.  Do you understand what I mean by that?  The first is worse.  The long term damage is worse.  The immediate guilt is worse.  The involvement of someone else...even though just an image...makes it worse.  But in any case...record every failure:  Date/time. 

Keep this record between you and the Lord.  Pray over it.  Consider a fast. 

Brother...my focus here is on a commitment to PROGRESS not PERFECTION.  Take 1 week at a time.  This is crucial.  Just because you fall, and you will, does not make you a failure.  All I am suggesting here is a careful record.  Sins typically die slowly and painfully.  I have not addressed your situation with your wife at all yet.  That is coming. 

All I am doing is suggesting you start recording this habit.  It may be also helpful to record your "feelings" on days even when you don't actually "fall" into one of these sins. 

This may sound entirely crazy to you.  Elisha once gave some crazy sounding advice to a leper...and it worked.  I'm asking you to give it a try.

There is more that goes along with this process.  It will involve talking with your wife in a couple of months about what you have discovered about yourself.  I will share that in a bit. 

Right now I've gotta run.  But I would like to know if you understand what I'm suggesting.  My heart goes out to you brother. 

Blessings,

Jason






 


Offline rgrove0172

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #11 on: Wed Apr 13, 2011 - 09:26:25 »
Thanks for the support guys, and the information - even if some or most of it is not entirely welcome.

I guess I have been looking for an easy way out of a tough situation, and trying to elimiinate the guilt by comparing it to more drastic alternatives rather than just taking it at face christian vallue.

Ive read a great deal of confusing information regarding the hazards of semen retension, tactile masturbation without associated immoral fantasies, targeting your spouse as the inspiration for masturbation etc. Essentially more excuses Im gathering, but tempting ones as they are far more appealing than the hard core approach Im reading.

Living with a sexual release only a handful of times a year sees almost an impossibility to accept. I love my wife dearly and am willing to do whatever it takes to keep our relationship strong and happy but ... dang! LOL thats quite a hurdle to overcome.

Im afraid the pursuing her, as someone above suggested, even more so than now will prove a real burden to her, pehaps offputing enough to make the situation worse. She is what she is and can no more help her lack of sexual interest than I can my more active one. I suppose she could and should sacrifice a bit, as Im attempting to do and will more so in the future but its a tough task.

Knowing Im not approaching her out of respect and love may reveal my love for her and strengthen our bond but knowing she is simply 'tolerating" my advances more often and "doing her duty" is no likely to have the same affect on me. I dont want a sexual recipient, I wouldnt think most husbands would. If she isnt truly interested, its just masturbation with a partner, wouldnt you think?

Offline Thankfulldad

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #12 on: Wed Apr 13, 2011 - 09:57:52 »
Thanks for the support guys, and the information - even if some or most of it is not entirely welcome.

I guess I have been looking for an easy way out of a tough situation, and trying to elimiinate the guilt by comparing it to more drastic alternatives rather than just taking it at face christian vallue.

Ive read a great deal of confusing information regarding the hazards of semen retension, tactile masturbation without associated immoral fantasies, targeting your spouse as the inspiration for masturbation etc. Essentially more excuses Im gathering, but tempting ones as they are far more appealing than the hard core approach Im reading.

Living with a sexual release only a handful of times a year sees almost an impossibility to accept. I love my wife dearly and am willing to do whatever it takes to keep our relationship strong and happy but ... dang! LOL thats quite a hurdle to overcome.

Im afraid the pursuing her, as someone above suggested, even more so than now will prove a real burden to her, pehaps offputing enough to make the situation worse. She is what she is and can no more help her lack of sexual interest than I can my more active one. I suppose she could and should sacrifice a bit, as Im attempting to do and will more so in the future but its a tough task.

Knowing Im not approaching her out of respect and love may reveal my love for her and strengthen our bond but knowing she is simply 'tolerating" my advances more often and "doing her duty" is no likely to have the same affect on me. I dont want a sexual recipient, I wouldnt think most husbands would. If she isnt truly interested, its just masturbation with a partner, wouldnt you think?

Your marriage is dieing a slow death just as mine did.  Everything you are saying is exactly what I thought and went through as a Christian husband longing for his wife to give him what God through Paul instructs, but does not command.  We are left frustrated and wanting to punch a hole through the wall as our sexual tension builds to a disastrous level.  Trust me...I masterbated thousands of times to relieve this tension; but it brought me no closer to my now ex-wife then punching her in the nose.

Do you have devotions with your wife, do you pray with your wife, do you read the Bible with your wife, do you read Christian books with your wife? (this is the pursuing I was referring to) All these things will draw you closer...I never did any of these things; but, without a doubt...I will not marry someone unless this is agreed to in the beginning.  My wife will know what is expected of her and I will know what is expected of me.  There will be no confusion, only the love that takes a husband and wife beyond themself...through the Lord Jesus Christ, in the mist of their marriage as the 3 of them melt into one.

« Last Edit: Wed Apr 13, 2011 - 10:35:38 by Thankfulldad »

Offline Apothecary 4 Christ

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #13 on: Wed Apr 13, 2011 - 13:49:43 »
Thanks for the support guys, and the information - even if some or most of it is not entirely welcome.

I guess I have been looking for an easy way out of a tough situation, and trying to elimiinate the guilt by comparing it to more drastic alternatives rather than just taking it at face christian vallue.

Ive read a great deal of confusing information regarding the hazards of semen retension, tactile masturbation without associated immoral fantasies, targeting your spouse as the inspiration for masturbation etc. Essentially more excuses Im gathering, but tempting ones as they are far more appealing than the hard core approach Im reading.

Living with a sexual release only a handful of times a year sees almost an impossibility to accept. I love my wife dearly and am willing to do whatever it takes to keep our relationship strong and happy but ... dang! LOL thats quite a hurdle to overcome.

Im afraid the pursuing her, as someone above suggested, even more so than now will prove a real burden to her, pehaps offputing enough to make the situation worse. She is what she is and can no more help her lack of sexual interest than I can my more active one. I suppose she could and should sacrifice a bit, as Im attempting to do and will more so in the future but its a tough task.

Knowing Im not approaching her out of respect and love may reveal my love for her and strengthen our bond but knowing she is simply 'tolerating" my advances more often and "doing her duty" is no likely to have the same affect on me. I dont want a sexual recipient, I wouldnt think most husbands would. If she isnt truly interested, its just masturbation with a partner, wouldnt you think?


Dear brother,

The approach I am suggesting will not be easy...or popular.  But I am suggesting it for 1 reason:  You must make real progress with YOUR sin before you begin to work with your wife on HER sin.

Your sin first.  Like I said, it will be hard.  BUT...the very act of writing things down will...you will see...be a help in overcoming this sin. 

The way I put it to people is this:  No sins are killed in "fuzzy land."  Until we nail down our sins...see them for what and when they are...they will continue to lurk in the dark and grey corners of fuzzy land.  Often we will flatter ourselves that we have made improvements...when really we have not.  That is why writing it down is critical.

ALSO...write down when intimacy with your wife does occur.  This "calendar" you will be creating is the first step to dealing with this.


THE NEXT STEP comes in 2-3 months.  I will tell you briefly what I believe you should do.  You will need to have another talk with your wife.  A true confession talk.  A full explanation of how you have been struggling with sins of lust and how you have made efforts and PROGRESS in killing the sins associated with lust.

You will then tell her precisely HOW this lust works in your life.  How many days you can go without intimacy before the thoughts and pressures become uncomfortable.  You will have a record.  You will know this very well by now. 

You will need to ask her for her help, because the sins associated with this lust are bothering you and hurting your walk with Jesus Christ. 

During the next few months...I highly recommend you take extra efforts to love your wife in ways that SHE wants to be loved.  Ask her if you don't know.  Make your love for her unmistakable!

There is still a bit more to the process I'm suggesting...but can I say this again...I have seen cases like this IMPROVED.  But you must be absolutely committed to giving this a try, and doing it in this way.


Brother...neither excusing your sin...nor just "living" with this problem are Biblical solutions.  You know this.  You have tried for 15 years.  It isn't working.

There is still more I could say about this process...but I have to run. 

Blessings,
Jason




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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #14 on: Wed Apr 13, 2011 - 17:51:17 »
another pitfall i fell into was doing something for something.

I used to pay attention to the sermons where the preacher said that "sex started in the kitchen".

So, i would do exactly as the tv preacher said and help with the dishes, put the kids to bed, etc., fully expecting my wife to be turned on by bedtime. Hey, i did everything right, still no results. I learned that preachers who don't have this problem really don't know what they are talking about. I got lucky maybe once every three months. It was hard not to keep track, but i know keeping track really did not help my wife performance.

Near the end of my marriage, God gave me the opportunity to love my wife as Christ would have me to. My wife came back for a year. I would give her foot rubs, back rubs, take her on dates without expecting anything in return, simply serving her. If only i knew that when we were first married, but, oh well. Once a woman gives up, it is almost impossible the win them back.

Offline rgrove0172

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #15 on: Thu Apr 14, 2011 - 07:11:31 »
Thanks again guys. For follow up, and you can choose to believe or disbelieve this as Im guessing most guys will claim something similar even if its not true, Im very attentive to my wife. Yes, I suppose Ive fallen into that trap of thinking the attention deserves a response and been dissapointed when it didnt get it but I havent quit.

I had a failed marriage before when I was younger. Part of the problem was my inattentiveness and I swore I wouldnt make that mistake again. When I remarried (my current wife) a woman 12 years my junior I promised myself I would not give her a reason to doubt my love and affection ever. Im the cook in our family, do a majority of the house work (as she is working on her masters)  see to our 5 year old twins most of time and make a special attempt to show her a bit of attention regularly (a quick shoulder rub while she does homework or bringing her a favorite drink during a break etc.) She will tell you, and does tell others, what a lucky woman she is to have such a great guy - and honestly shows me she appreciates me in a hundred different ways...... but that one. That one that is driving me nuts.

Ive decided to reallly give this my full attention. I spent a lot of time praying on the jogging trail yesterday and Im committed to avoiding the masturbation thing and certainly any outside inspiration and instead focusing on fixing this issue with my wife. I spoke to her about it last night and it was pretty uncomfortable but she was receptive, if not a bit embarrassed at my transparency. She didnt respond with any real solutions or anything other than acceptance that there was a problem though, not yet. I think she is still processing the shock to be honest. She really had no idea this was going on. The older, mature, pillar of stability guy in her llife, fire chief authority figure suddenly revealing this embarrassing habit really took her back a bit. We will see how it plays out over the next few days.

Offline rgrove0172

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #16 on: Fri Apr 15, 2011 - 08:34:27 »
Ok guys, Im working through this as best I can. Things are a little tense as might be expected between the wife and I. Nothing serious but the revelation hit her pretty hard. She says she is fine but obviously its not a good time to even think about propositioning her. Which brings up a kind of odd question.

Does the subject of your mental imagery change the moral compass value of masturbation? What if its your wife your fantsizing about? How would that be different from actually being with your wife but fending off random thoughts of sexual images beyond her? If thinking about something else turns intimacy into a sin then does thinking about your wife turn sin into something acceptable?

yeah, yeah I know, wierd and probably stretching but I gotta know.

I could easily conjure up some images of the perfect situation between my wife and I and enjoy a little tension release. What if she knew it was going on, I had her permission for example?

Help?

Offline fish153

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #17 on: Fri Apr 15, 2011 - 14:05:33 »

Offline zoonance

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #18 on: Fri Apr 15, 2011 - 18:04:48 »
Ok guys, Im working through this as best I can. Things are a little tense as might be expected between the wife and I. Nothing serious but the revelation hit her pretty hard. She says she is fine but obviously its not a good time to even think about propositioning her. Which brings up a kind of odd question.

Does the subject of your mental imagery change the moral compass value of masturbation? What if its your wife your fantsizing about? How would that be different from actually being with your wife but fending off random thoughts of sexual images beyond her? If thinking about something else turns intimacy into a sin then does thinking about your wife turn sin into something acceptable?

yeah, yeah I know, weird and probably stretching but I gotta know.

I could easily conjure up some images of the perfect situation between my wife and I and enjoy a little tension release. What if she knew it was going on, I had her permission for example?

Help?



If she has your permission and it really is about her and the perfect scenario between the two of you ... and it was in front of her while she watches and you are describing out loud what is going on in your head right then - play by play (otherwise it really would still be one on one without the other)  I don't know.

If it was to relieve tension, somewhat like taking a tylenol, I don't know.  Purely medicinal. (run the risk of addiction like a narcotic)

I wonder if (really do) you asked her if you could simply give her all the attention, slow and responsive, explorative and relaxed - if she would respond from inability not to.

Offline Nathanael

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #19 on: Fri Apr 15, 2011 - 18:06:29 »
Hi rgrove, thanks for the updates of your recent postings. Thats wonderful that you committed to be an attentive and thoughtful husband after the sadness of divorce, I honour you. Bless you. This info pretty much settles the issue that your wife is withdrawn sexually due to any response from the way you treat her. I think it is sounding like a case of her having genuinely quite low interest for intimacy. Perhaps she has just grown complacent and does not feel like making the effort.

I do think that Pauls admonishment to husbands and wives to not deprive each other still applies. God instructs us through the Apostle because he created us and designed sexuality and clearly prescribes it as a key part of a healthy marriage. Of course there should be compromise and couples have to find what works for them. But you are clearly struggling with your wifes level of 'interest', and she neds to engage in the working out of this. Your talk with her may be the start of her taking it more seriously.

You have cleared up the matter of you not making obstacles with your behaviour..great. Are you sure she has no psychological obstacles within herself? anything that is making her find loving sex with her husband undesirable? There may well be nothing and that its just down to her low drive.

If it is simply that then I pray that she gives her all into working on this. Its no different to anything else that causes our partner distress..love calls us to do all we can to fix it, as best as we can with God's empowering. Low sex drive is not an answer. what about the guy who drinks and yells at his wife.."I had a bad day at work and I have a temper and like to drink, its just the way I am"..nope. Approach any talk with her about it very gently, as I am confident you are doing.

I think that the focusing on your wife when you are desperate for relief is infinately better than using porn, but I am concerned that you are still vulnerable to lots of problems and attacks. Far better still to focus on a real answer with your wife, and avoid masturbation. It will not bring any long term help at all.

Offline Carwhisperer

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #20 on: Sun Apr 17, 2011 - 00:33:18 »
My wife and I had similar issues but not nearly as bad as your situation. We had separated for 3 months after 7 years of marriage. When we got back together we struggled. She thought I wanted sex all the time and I felt she wanted it never. I tried the "heaven at 11 starts at 7" approach too and no results. It looked like we were finished because of this issue. I tried a hail Mary pass, suggesting that we try sex twice a week. She agreed and we both agree that this saved our marriage, at least for the next 7 years. In fact, we had the best 5 years of our marriage during this period.

Then the quality of sex began to decline even though we kept up with our schedule. To make a long story short I threw her out of the house 2 years ago and slept around for about a year. I have been celibate for a year trying to win her back. I view the problem as way more my fault than hers but she could have done more. Women just don't understand how it feels to be deprived. On the other hand, what can we do about it?

I think Jason's suggestions sound promising to some extent. If in the end it doesn't work then you make your choice. OTOH, I think that choking the chicken is OK if you don't have lustful thoughts while you are doing it. I've heard that perhaps the verse "He will not subject us to temptation we cannot overcome... and will provide a way out", or something like that, might apply to masturbation. A way out that does not have to involve another woman.

A year before we split my wife agreed to increase the frequency a little bit (two days off, one day on) if I agreed not to flog the dog.  That was great and I was able to do it.

Another thing you might consider medicine. There is an injected drug called depo provera, aka the chemical castration drug. Not easy to get. I tried it once. There is also an oral drug called androcur or something like that. My wife tells me that if we reconcile there will be no sex for two years. If that happens I think I'll
androcur. Is it wrong for women to deprive their husbands? Yes. But again, the only thing we can do is stay or leave.

Offline Apothecary 4 Christ

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #21 on: Mon Apr 18, 2011 - 13:42:34 »
Ok guys, Im working through this as best I can. Things are a little tense as might be expected between the wife and I. Nothing serious but the revelation hit her pretty hard. She says she is fine but obviously its not a good time to even think about propositioning her. Which brings up a kind of odd question.

Does the subject of your mental imagery change the moral compass value of masturbation? What if its your wife your fantsizing about? How would that be different from actually being with your wife but fending off random thoughts of sexual images beyond her? If thinking about something else turns intimacy into a sin then does thinking about your wife turn sin into something acceptable?

yeah, yeah I know, weird and probably stretching but I gotta know.

I could easily conjure up some images of the perfect situation between my wife and I and enjoy a little tension release. What if she knew it was going on, I had her permission for example?

Help?


Dear brother,

I began to give you the steps I believe will help resolve this.  But I didn't fully explain the whole process.  For the sake of trying to give you the "big picture" of this approach I am suggesting...let me lay it out quickly and pointedly. 

I do not claim this process is easy.  I believe, however, it is Biblical AND effective.  Most other suggestions I have heard or read are either Biblical...but incomplete....therefore inneffective.  Or they are effective....but frankly unBiblical.

Step 1) 3 months of very focused and documented, honest, dealing with your own sin (pornography/masturbation).  Also document intimacy with wife.  Document efforts to show real love and concern for meeting any and all needs expressed by your wife.

Step 2) Lay your cards on the table with your wife (figuratively).  Explain to her exactly how and when the pressure and uncomfortable tension begins to show itself...relative to intimacy (e.g. 2 days after...3 days after...1 week after).  Explain to her how this creates great pressures toward lust and sinful temptations.  Explain you need her help because these thoughts and desires hurt you spiritually in your walk with Christ.  Document this conversation.  Ask for her input and suggestions.  Ask her if there is anything you could do to help promote improvement in this aspect of your relationship for the next 30 days. 

Give it 30 days.   And remember....you are looking and praying for IMPROVEMENT NOT PERFECTION.  In other words...1-2 more episodes of intimacy may be far LESS than what you need...but if it is MORE than before...THIS IS IMPROVEMENT!!  Continue to build on this through loving conversations. 

The main point here, brother, is that we must be satisfied with improvement....not perfection.  The same thing is true with respect to dealing with our own sins.  Yes...the ultimate goal is always perfection...but the immediate goal is improvement.  Rejoice when improvement is obvious.

Step 3)  If, and only if, you get to a point where there is consistently NO progress...then I truly believe the next step is to involve a Pastor or spiritual leader.  You must tell you wife that, for the sake of your soul and her soul, you need to involve another party to help resolve this.  This is Biblical.  I admit it won't be easy.  But it will be easier to do it now...after giving significant time to dealing honestly and openly with your own issues...than if you just ran for help immediately. 

Ideally someone should be found to counsel you and your wife.  Maybe a mature Christian woman could talk privately with your wife about this issue.  Either way, or both, are fine. 


Brother...I sincerely hope you at least prayerfully consider this approach.  It is not a quick fix.  It is not an easy solution.  But I do believe that the Lord will bless it both in your wife, and your wife's life also. 

Your soul's well-wisher,
Jason



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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #22 on: Mon Apr 18, 2011 - 13:56:32 »
You need to read what the bible says.

The bible says that your body is your wife's and her body is yours.  That you should not refuse her and she should not refuse you.

She is disobeying God.

1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Offline Carwhisperer

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #23 on: Mon Apr 18, 2011 - 18:01:45 »
You need to read what the bible says.

The bible says that your body is your wife's and her body is yours.  That you should not refuse her and she should not refuse you.

She is disobeying God.

1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


That's true but what should the OP do about it? Telling her she's wrong and backing it up with scripture probably won't help him get any more nooky.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #24 on: Mon Apr 18, 2011 - 18:20:14 »
Maybe she has a low-hormone level.  Getting a blood test is certainly worth the effort.

cs80918

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Re: masturbation to keep the peace
« Reply #25 on: Tue Apr 19, 2011 - 11:30:05 »
If she is a christian, the holy spirit will convict her, when the truth of those verses are told to her.  She might be disobediant and not obey, but at least she knows what she should do.

I would suggest he start with the part what a husband's responsiblities are to his wife first.

Getting  her hormones checked could be a good thing to.

I am sure there are some good books on this subject.

 

     
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