I don't think I will ever trust men

[yesult]

Yeah I agree with the control issues being a big problem in women. But when men betray you, they'll use you. And if they use you, they'll likely do it through domination. And if someone is dominating you - the easiest way to get your needs met in the relationship (or minimise that domination) is thorugh manipulation which is control.

So I can see why women have been particularly guilty in this area. Women have no need to be controling when they're not being threatened. (Although if it's already in your worldview or practice before you end up with someone, you can do it automatically. Or use it as a weapon to try to prevent it from ever happening in the first place.)

And yes I agree on the 'female porn' thing which I vew most female fiction and chick flicks as, as well. It's so harmful. The knight in shining armour who meets all your needs. It subconciously educates women into disatisfaction. A man can't meet all their needs so believing that he should, is setting a relationship up for problems.

It's booming in the christian world too. In the last 2 years I've seen it expand from a tiny section in our local bookshop to taking over it's own category with a couple of pages of it's own in the monthly catalogue. It seems to be becoming one of the staples in christian book sales.

 


I know there are good guys out there who have beaten porn as a habit. But the handful of guys I was referring to seemed to be unaffected by it almost completly. They'd cleared it so far out of their lives it was like it just didn't even register anymore so it was no longer a temptation, let alone a struggle. Lust just didn't seem to have any kind of real grip on them.

[chosenone]

I dont think it is always the case that women become controlling to deal with a controlling man. There are three wonen I know who were/are extreemly controlling with their husbands/ex husabnds, and thay have no reason to be like this. They have not been abused or badly treated by men.That is just the way they are. I think some of it comes to them from a mother who was the same and it is learned behaviour, and at least one lady we know, God has told us that her issues of manipulation and control are spiritual (as in evil spirits)and it certainly comes accross as that.
Obviously there are faults and weaknesss that are both in men and women. We all have the things that we have to beware of that may make us discontent with our spouses.

yes I agree that porn is horrible. I couldnt and wouldnt put up with any man I was married to looking at porn. Fortunatly I have a very moral and godly husband who even closes his eyes if an advert comes on the tv with a women in a bikini or is otherwise immodestly dressed. yes it is also extreemly damaging to the viewer and also those who take part in it. Its allows evil into their lives.

[chosenone]

There are some excellent and godly men out there.

Yes, indeed, they are all married to my friends and relatives.
They are wonderful.
 

 So you DO know some good and godly men.

[Cally]

Actually I use the word of God, which people rarely use to help men. Hardly a single word of the written word is used to help men these days with sexual struggles among other things.

"The body was not meant for sexual immorality, but for God."

(The prostitute reduces YOU to a loaf of bread. Wait, Solomon, didn't you mean, "respect the prostitute." Nope. She towers over you trying to be something to be worshiped.)

Don't sin against your own body, it belongs to God. Wait, where is all that stuff about "respecting women" or all that garbage that you hear about, with which some women think they were appointed judge, jury, and executioner in this matter?

Cuz I can't find it. It's no wonder, because such women who said those things didn't even have the slightest drop of love in their intentions for the men they complained about. If they wanted men to kick the habit for their own sakes, they'd be citing the word of God.

Actually, more discoveries followed. The real root of why porn and "lust" in men is so much more common a surrender to worship of women.

Wouldn't it be cute if we let them do anything they wanted? Kick men in the crotch, be the president, kill their unborn babies, make television programs like "Sex in the City" to "get even" with men and their out-of-control habits ("getting even" in many other self-destructive ways too), manipulate college funds to take away from young men and give to women? How lovely. How cute.

I had a friend from Japan. "They look so cute, but, then they start talking . . ." so sorry nobody warned you about that, dear friend. Because around here, everything a girl does (especially to a man) is "cute."

But it's also somehow okay because she's perpetually the victim. In psychology they call it the "sick role." Some even reason that since Eve was only "beguiled," well, that means she should run the place! Good thinking! (About the "woman who is more bitter than death," Solomon also says, "she knows it not," no she isn't off the hook because of the fact by a long shot--just ask Mosaic law.)

Ah but there's more. A man self-emasculates to let his wife feel more equal in strength in the house and in the community. But what, then, do you do with a young man who tries to grow into himself? How dare he find his strength while the man is giving up his own for the wife! He must be punished, he still has to save the world, while he is beat on, even while his usual societal ("unfair") advantages are taken away, he had still better manage to put out as usual.

By the way, yesult, your facts are absolutely wrong. You'd probably be set straight if more men opened up, but statistically FAR more women cheat on and leave their husbands in the last forty years (the advent of feminism) and it's usually as chosenone said: in their world, suddenly Adam was made for Eve, not Eve for Adam as Paul points out in the height of obviousness. They willfully betrayed the Word. They even sit in judgment on men whom God approved, while not noting the women whom God approved (truly imitating them, 1 Peter 3 and pretty much everything else).

It's very possible that, as I have experienced, the good men out there are surviving away from where some would find them. Where was Elijah, John the Baptist, Paul (for many years) . . . just about every man that--incidentally, they were also single--God commended as prophets? Out in the wild full of wisdom and communion with God alone!

Clearly I generalize, but I'm talking about the general course of society. Men have been hurt in their identity so badly because they were told to idolize women, bend for them, be enslaved by them and let them rule them, and it has adulterated God's design. The older generation takes for granted that they at least had "traditional wisdom" to help them, while mine has to reinvent the wheel thanks to this perversion. And on top of even that, they are trying to approve of homosexuality (the TOTAL destruction of his identity).

[son of God]

  Thanks, Cally.  You said it better than I could have.

[yesult]

lol, how did I know something like this might come from you cally

By the way, yesult, your facts are absolutely wrong. You'd probably be set straight if more men opened up, but statistically FAR more women cheat on and leave their husbands in the last forty years (the advent of feminism)

Funny. That's the opposite of every statistic I've EVER seen in my life regarding men and women cheating except for one chosenone posted recently that claimed women in the workplace are equally as guilty, even a percent or two over as men in adultery.

And please don't try and claim that all statistic reports are bogus at this point to back up your argument. It's already been tried in chosenones post on the subject.

in their world, suddenly Adam was made for Eve, not Eve for Adam as Paul points out in the height of obviousness.

Oh so Eve was made for Adam. Not in partnership with him. Really? So like a pet or a servant or something. In fact as an afterthought. Afterall, God made Adam first. Why would a woman be needed? Adam could reproduce by himself, had Gods complete nature, a womans nature was superfluous. It wasn't an equally important part of Gods nature that fit with his to make a whole. Who knows where God got the idea of women from. As servants to a man obviously, so he didn't get lonely. God didn't make both adam and eve in his own image (although scripture says he did), that would be corrupting the perfect model? Adam was Gods perfection, all in all.

As I said. The church has been used as an excuse to dominate women and it's a sad and ugly thing. No wonder people have rejected God over such flagrant abuse of scripture. Why don't you read the whole thing in context?

They willfully betrayed the Word.

Yeah it's sad when people do that. Particularly to justify dominating their wives and reducing them to servants and second class citizens.

They even sit in judgment on men whom God approved,

What an interesting statement. So women are never allow to judge a mans actions because he's a man. Really? And God approves of this?
You mentioned you were thinking about going back to church. Be warned. They allow women in there. And also to speak  (unless you've joined a cult.)

while not noting the women whom God approved

Love to see how the above supposedly fit in scripture the way you're inferring btw.

(truly imitating them, 1 Peter 3 and pretty much everything else).

So we're supposed to imitate men to learn how to be Godly. Is that the point you're making?
And 1 Peter 3 needs to be taken in context with all other scripture regarding relationship, including the original wording in the Greek.

Cally it's men like you taking these kinds of viewpoints that have been responsible for so much of the abuse of women in the church in the past. The intent being, to deliberatly twist scripture or take it out of context to justify the domination and subordition of females.

It's really sad. But I'm glad you post here in some ways, (and son of god)  because it reminds me that those sort of people still do exist, and women only have the respect that they have largely in the church (and the world) today, because some were willing to fight for it and not just give in to this kind of bullying.

Keeps me inspired.

[yesult]

However things like this give you away, even when you do (mis)quote scripture to back up your points.

Don't sin against your own body, it belongs to God. Wait, where is all that stuff about "respecting women" or all that garbage that you hear about, with which some women think they were appointed judge, jury, and executioner in this matter?

Cuz I can't find it. It's no wonder, because such women who said those things didn't even have the slightest drop of love in their intentions for the men they complained about. If they wanted men to kick the habit for their own sakes, they'd be citing the word of God.

It's very possible that, as I have experienced, the good men out there are surviving away from where some would find them. Where was Elijah, John the Baptist, Paul (for many years) . . . just about every man that--incidentally, they were also single--God commended as prophets? Out in the wild full of wisdom and communion with God alone!

[yesult]

Elaine, I always though yesult was a particularly feminine sounding name, which is why I chose it, (it's french medievil) but trust me, you're not the only one who's commented so it's obviously not sending the message that I was originally hoping for.

Oh well.    (I guess the element of suprise is often a good thing too       )

[yesult]

PS. I should also add that men have also fought for womens rights. Some were willing to just fight for what was correct and get behind women who also would, regardless of the main viewpoints of their society. But it's generally still women brave enough to step out who bring the overall changes when sexism is being challenged in a culture.

[JohnDB]

A guy gets to an age where all he really wants is a relationship with a woman...Sex from a spouse is it...

and if and when he has the energy to do so...she says, "NO...cause you don't love me enough to take out the trash...or find me the perfect anniversary/birthday, whatever present that I never told you that I wanted but secretly was testing your love for me by psychically knowing it"

Good Greif...

and women wonder why us older guys would rather be single...

we ain't putting up with the teasing and insulting and disrespectful behavior from women...we get enough of that from our coworkers at work and the rest of the world...we don't want to put up with it from some dingy woman who thinks she is a wife simply because we were dumb enough to believe her and offer her a ring.

The title of wife is earned...not given freely even if the name is bandied about so. You can be married but not be a wife...seen it too often to fall for that one.

I have met way too many women that have no clue as to what a marriage is about and no clue as to how to give in a relationship....they don't know half as much as the men that I know. Sure...a few guys have porn or other issues...but it is anywhere but far from the majority...unless they are regularly being abused, belittled, and insulted by a woman who thinks she is a wife. Guys are doing it simply to medicate a pain inflicted by their spouse. One that aspirin won't fix.  I work with guys all day long and I hear about it from them. Church is where the guys are abused more but speak about it less...all because their wives are now righteous in their abuse of their husbands...

since so few understand it...why bother looking for a silver pin in the stack of chrome ones...especially when there is a pot of gold around the corner.

[Cally]

^Indeed, sharpening the antlers with the men is good! Friendly competition in whatever form, to sharpen us, but with women such a thing is invariably personal, and God meant a man to come home from that into respite, not into more of it!

(sounds like a reference to Proverbs' contentious wife)

[son of God]

A guy gets to an age where all he really wants is a relationship with a woman...Sex from a spouse is it...

and if and when he has the energy to do so...she says, "NO...cause you don't love me enough to take out the trash...or find me the perfect anniversary/birthday, whatever present that I never told you that I wanted but secretly was testing your love for me by psychically knowing it"

Good Greif...

and women wonder why us older guys would rather be single...

we ain't putting up with the teasing and insulting and disrespectful behavior from women...we get enough of that from our coworkers at work and the rest of the world...we don't want to put up with it from some dingy woman who thinks she is a wife simply because we were dumb enough to believe her and offer her a ring.

The title of wife is earned...not given freely even if the name is bandied about so. You can be married but not be a wife...seen it too often to fall for that one.

I have met way too many women that have no clue as to what a marriage is about and no clue as to how to give in a relationship....they don't know half as much as the men that I know. Sure...a few guys have porn or other issues...but it is anywhere but far from the majority...unless they are regularly being abused, belittled, and insulted by a woman who thinks she is a wife. Guys are doing it simply to medicate a pain inflicted by their spouse. One that aspirin won't fix.  I work with guys all day long and I hear about it from them. Church is where the guys are abused more but speak about it less...all because their wives are now righteous in their abuse of their husbands...

since so few understand it...why bother looking for a silver pin in the stack of chrome ones...especially when there is a pot of gold around the corner.

So good to see it laid out in the open!  Few are willing to do so.  Agree with your post very much.  Many wives are the most self centered things on earth, but they are so righteous in their own eyes.  "

[Cally]

Ah, but stick with them, guys. I guess that's easy for someone like me to say, but don't let anyone have an excuse to accuse you of wrongdoing. Go as servants of God, taking care of her as one's own flesh. Lead, and if she follows, good!

God bless, all.

[JohnDB]

  I thought you might get a kick out of that one...heh heh heh.

whatever present that I never told you that I wanted but secretly was testing your love for me by psychically knowing it"

 You just say, "Sorry I didn't put on my mind reading antennae today." It usually shows women how ridiculous they are being.  Well, it did me anyway when I was like 2.
Sorry, you guys have to put up with mind games. That John Gray book will really help you, though. Men are From Mars...

[chosenone]

A guy gets to an age where all he really wants is a relationship with a woman...Sex from a spouse is it...

and if and when he has the energy to do so...she says, "NO...cause you don't love me enough to take out the trash...or find me the perfect anniversary/birthday, whatever present that I never told you that I wanted but secretly was testing your love for me by psychically knowing it"

Good Greif...

and women wonder why us older guys would rather be single...

we ain't putting up with the teasing and insulting and disrespectful behavior from women...we get enough of that from our coworkers at work and the rest of the world...we don't want to put up with it from some dingy woman who thinks she is a wife simply because we were dumb enough to believe her and offer her a ring.

The title of wife is earned...not given freely even if the name is bandied about so. You can be married but not be a wife...seen it too often to fall for that one.

I have met way too many women that have no clue as to what a marriage is about and no clue as to how to give in a relationship....they don't know half as much as the men that I know. Sure...a few guys have porn or other issues...but it is anywhere but far from the majority...unless they are regularly being abused, belittled, and insulted by a woman who thinks she is a wife. Guys are doing it simply to medicate a pain inflicted by their spouse. One that aspirin won't fix.  I work with guys all day long and I hear about it from them. Church is where the guys are abused more but speak about it less...all because their wives are now righteous in their abuse of their husbands...

since so few understand it...why bother looking for a silver pin in the stack of chrome ones...especially when there is a pot of gold around the corner.

 wow John thats sad, you must know some awful women. yes I do know a few women like that, one of them being my mother in law lol who was unhappliy married twice and didnt have a CLUE about being a wife or keeping her husband happy, and one of them being my husbands ex wife who was the same(all take and no give) but I also know many many lovely women who adore their husbands and treat them really well. I hope that I am one of these, my mum was another and many of my friends are really good wives, and lovely godly women.
I hope that your experiences with your ex wife havent turned you against all women.lol. That can happen you know.