Just a few questions about whether my values and expectations are out of line...

[UtahDad]

I just had a few questions about whether you forum posters think that what I expect out of a relationship and what I value are just out of line or not realistic.  It appears that my current relationship is over due in part to a few things that I just can't compromise on.  I don't think that I am too old fashioned but then again, maybe I am.

When I look for a relationship I am looking for someone who values things in this order:

God, His Word and the Church (regular attendance, involvement to whatever degree God leads them and goes to His word when they have a question about life, a relationship and so on)

Family (close family ties, willingness to help out when someone in the family or church family is in need and actually want to spend time AS a family instead of just off with friends)

Honesty, loyalty and faithfulness (always being truthful, not being in appropriate situations, not giving the other person any reason to doubt and never for any reason being unfaithful)

Why is it so hard to find someone like that?  Am I really just that much out of touch with how christians think a relationship should be?  I have talked with many girls at my church that see no problem at all doing things that are not only inappropriate and sinful if they were single but they start throwing up that 'controlling' word if I dare ask if they would be ok acting like that if things got serious in a relationship.  Do modern christian women really believe it is ok to be off drunk with various guys?  Driving around and hanging out with guys that have interest in you even tho you are involved with someone?  Leaving kids for someone to watch while you go off and hang out without your S/O with people of the opposite sex?  How about talk on the phone/text with members of the opposite sex about things that really should be between partners, not just some random guy that wants some fun?

Am I being too hard on these girls because I see things in black and white?  I don't do any of those things, even when I am not involved with someone.  It is just driving me crazy trying to understand how anyone, especially people claiming to be christians, can see that type of behavior as ok and normal.

/end rant

[JohnDB]

I had a question....and it concerns this statement here:

not giving the other person any reason to doubt and never for any reason being unfaithful

I kinda wanted a little more information about what this means to you.

Some of the other things that you mentioned...I am gonna need some specific examples of what it is that you are talking about....

If it was a description of genetalia in a text message...yes, that is way TMI to be discussing with another person.

Age range of girls you are interested in dating?

Just need this stuff for figuring out the whole picture of what it is that you are talking about...K?

Then we can assist...a little.

[UtahDad]

I had a question....and it concerns this statement here:

not giving the other person any reason to doubt and never for any reason being unfaithful

I kinda wanted a little more information about what this means to you.

Some of the other things that you mentioned...I am gonna need some specific examples of what it is that you are talking about....

If it was a description of genetalia in a text message...yes, that is way TMI to be discussing with another person.

Age range of girls you are interested in dating?

Just need this stuff for figuring out the whole picture of what it is that you are talking about...K?

Then we can assist...a little.

What is means to me?  Just not being in situations that would cause the other person to get jealous (portraying yourself as single at parties, crashing at friend's home with singles of the opposite sex when your partner isn't there, that sort of thing).  Yes, I have heard it all from 'christian' girls around here, just wondering if it is like this in other areas too.

As for the calls/texting it consists basic flirting and innuendo, stuff like that.  Age range has been anywhere from 24-32 lately.

[Silvia]

Do you have those same expectations of yourself? I don't think you can ask any more of another person than you do of yourself...

Having said that - are you familiar with Neil Clark Warren? He wrote a book on the subject of developing a list of "can't stands must haves" (no, I can't remember the title of the book - sorry). The idea that it's good to quantify the non negotiable things that you are looking for in any relationship. That way you won't let your heart get ahead of your head - get caught up in the emotion of it and realize too late what you got in to.

I didn't actually read the book until *after* I got married, but I did build a list similiar to NCW's. I started it when I was a teenager and added to it as I got older. It eventually included that He must either be a virgin or a spiritual virgin, must be a growing follower of Jesus, be on a similiar academic level to my own, be active physically...Frankly, as I got older, some of those "must haves" seemed darned near impossible...people told me that I'd never get married if I held to *all* of those criteria. But I felt so strongly about them that I figured maybe I wouldn't get married then. I'd just be like Jesus!

I met "Mr Right" when I was 39. And yes, he met *all* of those criteria!

All I'm saying is - it's good to have a list. As long as you hold yourself to those same standards and are convinced that those are important qualities that you need to wait for. If that's the case, then wait. Wait for the leading of the Creator of Marriage. Trust Him. "No good thing will He withhold from those whose walk is upright".

[UtahDad]

Do you have those same expectations of yourself? I don't think you can ask any more of another person than you do of yourself...

All I'm saying is - it's good to have a list. As long as you hold yourself to those same standards and are convinced that those are important qualities that you need to wait for. If that's the case, then wait. Wait for the leading of the Creator of Marriage. Trust Him. "No good thing will He withhold from those whose walk is upright".

I hold myself to even a higher standards than someone I get interested in, I don't ask anymore than I am willing to give in a relationship.  I guess this last one just got me questioning myself and how I believe things should be because in the beginning she was saying she was eye to eye with everything we talked about regarding this stuff.  Then as the relationship progressed she started throwing around the 'controlling' word when I would remind her that we had talked about certain things that we both agreed were inappropriate that she now decided were ok.  Just good to get other's input sometimes.   

[JohnDB]

OK...I think I understand.

On one hand...she is right...you are being a bit controlling. Not so much excessivly so as to warrant a lable of disfunction...but just a tad controlling. Male leadership is as it's title states...it is leadership...not dictatorship. In other words she must be willing to follow your lead and you must not demand it of her.

Consequently she is currently rebelling against the gentle nudging of your controlling behavior. Most people do...I know I do. I will not be controlled by anyone or anything...period.

But also on the other hand. She isn't ready to get married...nor are you to ask her to behave as if she is engaged. (women do spend the night at each other's houses...strange but true fact about women) She either will willingly submit to your leadership in some areas or she won't. If she doesn't then you don't have to date her...no requests or statements...just don't invite her out any longer. Proper behavior is rewarded with a second, third, fourth and so on so long as the proper behavior continues.

But also you might be stuck in a group of girls that have not only a boyfriend but also a friend with "benefits" as well. For some women this is common...for others it isn't. Just seems to be the circle of women you seem to be hanging out with lately from what you are suggesting...of course we aren't there and truly looking in from the outside at both of you. It sounds like she is trying to "keep her options open" as far as someone else coming along she likes better...but in the meantime you are graced with her prescence. She can't stand being alone. Most likely the fuss that was started you might believe you started but she knows what she did and did it on purpose to make it all your idea.

She likely has another guy in her sights and is doing all she can to land him at this moment.

That is just women.

[yesult]

That is just women.

No, that is just some women. The same as it's some men.

It is just driving me crazy trying to understand how anyone, especially people claiming to be christians, can see that type of behavior as ok and normal.

It isn't ok or nomal for christians. Ok and normal in the world maybe, but we're not supposed to be using that as our standard.

Honesty, loyalty and faithfulness (always being truthful, not being in appropriate situations, not giving the other person any reason to doubt and never for any reason being unfaithful)

However I have to admit that this one got my notice. If someone is a suspicious person then you can end up walking around on eggshells just to keep them happy. That can tip over into trying to control someone for your own peace of mind. You can't force someone to be trustworthy, or trustworthy 'enough' for you if they don't meet your initial standards.

[UtahDad]

However I have to admit that this one got my notice. If someone is a suspicious person then you can end up walking around on eggshells just to keep them happy. That can tip over into trying to control someone for your own peace of mind. You can't force someone to be trustworthy, or trustworthy 'enough' for you if they don't meet your initial standards.

I don't view it as being suspicious, just as learning things to watch out for from the past.  It's a little hard to ignore things that don't make sense when someone tells you something that differs from what they said happened a few days earlier.  I have been blessed with a very good memory and when I start getting 2-3 varying accounts about something I tend to ask more details about what went on (no, I don't sit and interrogate anyone, just pick things up from conversation).  Your last statement is right on tho, I am completely open and honest so I tend to expect the same from who I am with and it just doesn't work that way a lot of times.

[son of God]

not being controlling, but requiring a person of similar values.  If that person isn't found, then to spend time with one you know doesn't fit your requirements, is indeed foolish.  To look for one of similar values isn't controlling, or we are all controlling!  Circular retoric given previously.  Stick to your values, UD, and you will only stick with those of similar values when looking for a wife.  "birds of a feather...."  The birds aren't controlling, are the?!!! they merely hang out with the same kind.  To be wondering if ther are any of the same kind isn't controlling -- it's just wondering.  And perhaps dismayed at not finding such.  "good things come to those who wait".

[JohnnO]

Why is it so hard to find someone like that?  Am I really just that much out of touch with how christians think a relationship should be?  I have talked with many girls at my church that see no problem at all doing things that are not only inappropriate and sinful if they were single but they start throwing up that 'controlling' word if I dare ask if they would be ok acting like that if things got serious in a relationship.  Do modern christian women really believe it is ok to be off drunk with various guys?  Driving around and hanging out with guys that have interest in you even tho you are involved with someone?  Leaving kids for someone to watch while you go off and hang out without your S/O with people of the opposite sex?  How about talk on the phone/text with members of the opposite sex about things that really should be between partners, not just some random guy that wants some fun?

Am I being too hard on these girls because I see things in black and white?
/end rant

No. The only error I see is in calling them Christian when they are acting in some definitely un-Christian manners.

If she is throwing up the "controlling" word then she is obviously not ready to be in a relationship (or at least not ready to be in a relationship with you).  Expecting osmeone to live to a Christian standard of behavior when they confess to be a Christian is not controlling. It is scriptural.

[babe]

Hello Utah Dad---

Sounds like you'd do better to move on in this  case.  No need to get all preachy with her about it,  say goodbye, and stick to your standards.  Do your dependability/genuine christian assessment quickly  as you go along, and you'll find someone who is what  you need a lot sooner.

have a nice day.

[UtahDad]

Hello Utah Dad---

Sounds like you'd do better to move on in this  case.  No need to get all preachy with her about it,  say goodbye, and stick to your standards.  Do your dependability/genuine christian assessment quickly  as you go along, and you'll find someone who is what  you need a lot sooner.

have a nice day.

Yea, moving on all right.  I have found out a lot more than I really wanted to know since the first posts I posted about all this.  Let's just say that after talking with the church leaders they have said I have Biblical grounds for divorce since it appears now that she was/is committing adultery and was attacking me to try and divert attention from what she was doing.

[HeavensTears]

My previous relationship was exactly what you guys have talked about here and lemme tell ya...it sucked!  

What's worse is the fact that we were willing to share ourselves sexually with each other, but not willing to marry each other. How foolish that was.  

Neither one of us was ready for a committed relationship. He was too afraid to marry again because of what happened with his ex-wife and is probably going through the same drama and strife with her still, and the thought of being a wife and mother scared me alot. I was so afraid of failing at those things because of fear of my old nature coming out. The old self was very aggressive, mean, vinidictive, sensual, and had a bad attitude towards life and people.

Also, its never good idea to buy a woman a ring a a means to legitamize any kind of sexual activity going on between both partners.  

That relationship was a mess because WE were a mess. But by the grace of God I will not make that mistake again.