Author Topic: Problem/Riddle  (Read 3262 times)

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Offline john330

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Problem/Riddle
« on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 16:19:32 »
So I've got a problem.  I am a Christian and don't believe in premarital sex.  I am single.  I don't look like the type of guy that would be Christian and chaste.  Girls often think I am flirting with them when I say "good morning" or just smile.  It's annoying.

Sometimes I do flirt with girls, intentionally, with the purpose of asking them out.  I am interested in dating another chaste Christian.  So, in order to rebut the presumption created by my appearance, I started telling girls that I am Christian and that I don't have premarital sex.

All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin.  This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either 1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or 2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.

So, the dillemma is that my statement about myself (Christian, no premarital sex) is incentivizing lies from the women that approach.  I think that I need to stop admitting these things about myself so that I can find out what type of person the girl is without her feeling the need to conform to my personality and beliefs.

The "riddle" is this:

What do I say to a girl I've just met that will get her to honestly admit to her own honest beliefs about God and chastity without incentivizing a lie?

Save the comments about how I don't need to be shy about declaring my faith.  I will declare my faith.  I just want honest answers.  If I want truth about the person that I want to date, I should be able to get it.

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #1 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 16:33:02 »
Ask them how long a new couple should wait before sex.

If they don't know your answer beforehand, you will know what they truly think.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #2 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 16:55:17 »
Not sure what you mean when you say that you don't look like the kind of guy who is a Christian and chaste. What does that kind of guy look like?

Where are you meeting these girls? In church or a church group or elsewhere? Spending time with a group of young people in a  church setting is a good way of getting to know them and observing them. See if their faith is real by what they say, how they act and how they treat others.  Do they pray? Do they dress modestly? Do they read the Bible? Do they speak well of others? Tell the truth? Do they talk about God and their faith?
You are not going to meet a godly lady out clubbing for example.

I think that if you meet a genuine godly girl you won't need to mention sex until you get to know each other well. It's something you can talk about further down the line. If she is keen to have sex early on, then you can tell she isn't godly.
« Last Edit: Wed May 31, 2017 - 16:57:27 by chosenone »

Offline john330

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #3 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 17:13:41 »
Not sure what you mean when you say that you don't look like the kind of guy who is a Christian and chaste. What does that kind of guy look like?

Where are you meeting these girls? In church or a church group or elsewhere? Spending time with a group of young people in a  church setting is a good way of getting to know them and observing them. See if their faith is real by what they say, how they act and how they treat others.  Do they pray? Do they dress modestly? Do they read the Bible? Do they speak well of others? Tell the truth? Do they talk about God and their faith?
You are not going to meet a godly lady out clubbing for example.

I think that if you meet a genuine godly girl you won't need to mention sex until you get to know each other well. It's something you can talk about further down the line. If she is keen to have sex early on, then you can tell she isn't godly.

In answer to your first question, I look like a "hound-dog."  Do not ask any further questions about my appearance.  The facts that I gave are sufficient, as they form the basis for my thought process and why I began telling girls that I am Christian and chaste.

I do not drink and do not go to bars/clubs.  I meet girls at random. 

My church does not have young people's groups, and I am not young enough to participate in such groups (mid-thirties).  I think that it is disingenuous to participate in other denominations' singles groups, as the host church organizes these groups for its members.

In my area people are not strongly Christian.  Most are only nominally Christian.  I am interested in separating the wheat from the chaff, as I should be.

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #3 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 17:13:41 »

Offline john330

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #4 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 17:14:48 »
Ask them how long a new couple should wait before sex.

If they don't know your answer beforehand, you will know what they truly think.

Strong answer.  Thank you!

Offline chosenone

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #5 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 19:58:46 »
Not sure what you mean when you say that you don't look like the kind of guy who is a Christian and chaste. What does that kind of guy look like?

Where are you meeting these girls? In church or a church group or elsewhere? Spending time with a group of young people in a  church setting is a good way of getting to know them and observing them. See if their faith is real by what they say, how they act and how they treat others.  Do they pray? Do they dress modestly? Do they read the Bible? Do they speak well of others? Tell the truth? Do they talk about God and their faith?
You are not going to meet a godly lady out clubbing for example.

I think that if you meet a genuine godly girl you won't need to mention sex until you get to know each other well. It's something you can talk about further down the line. If she is keen to have sex early on, then you can tell she isn't godly.

In answer to your first question, I look like a "hound-dog."  Do not ask any further questions about my appearance.  The facts that I gave are sufficient, as they form the basis for my thought process and why I began telling girls that I am Christian and chaste.

I do not drink and do not go to bars/clubs.  I meet girls at random. 

My church does not have young people's groups, and I am not young enough to participate in such groups (mid-thirties).  I think that it is disingenuous to participate in other denominations' singles groups, as the host church organizes these groups for its members.

In my area people are not strongly Christian.  Most are only nominally Christian.  I am interested in separating the wheat from the chaff, as I should be.

All Christian men look different, there is no 'type'.
There are many Christians singles events organized, maybe do some research. Also use Christian dating sites, that how I met my husband. Not sure about where you live, but in the Uk, it's almost impossible to meet a Christian just randomly, you have to mix with other Christians and make the effort to do that.

I guess if you do manage to meet a Christian girl, you could ask her which church she goes to and go along with her for a while and observe what she is like. If she has no church then that is a red flag to start with. Just getting to know her will quickly enable you to see pretty soon if she has a genuine faith. 

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #6 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 20:20:46 »
Not sure what you mean when you say that you don't look like the kind of guy who is a Christian and chaste. What does that kind of guy look like?

Where are you meeting these girls? In church or a church group or elsewhere? Spending time with a group of young people in a  church setting is a good way of getting to know them and observing them. See if their faith is real by what they say, how they act and how they treat others.  Do they pray? Do they dress modestly? Do they read the Bible? Do they speak well of others? Tell the truth? Do they talk about God and their faith?
You are not going to meet a godly lady out clubbing for example.

I think that if you meet a genuine godly girl you won't need to mention sex until you get to know each other well. It's something you can talk about further down the line. If she is keen to have sex early on, then you can tell she isn't godly.

In answer to your first question, I look like a "hound-dog."  Do not ask any further questions about my appearance.  The facts that I gave are sufficient, as they form the basis for my thought process and why I began telling girls that I am Christian and chaste.

I do not drink and do not go to bars/clubs.  I meet girls at random. 

My church does not have young people's groups, and I am not young enough to participate in such groups (mid-thirties).  I think that it is disingenuous to participate in other denominations' singles groups, as the host church organizes these groups for its members.

In my area people are not strongly Christian.  Most are only nominally Christian.  I am interested in separating the wheat from the chaff, as I should be.

All Christian men look different, there is no 'type'.
There are many Christians singles events organized, maybe do some research. Also use Christian dating sites, that how I met my husband. Not sure about where you live, but in the Uk, it's almost impossible to meet a Christian just randomly, you have to mix with other Christians and make the effort to do that.

I guess if you do manage to meet a Christian girl, you could ask her which church she goes to and go along with her for a while and observe what she is like. If she has no church then that is a red flag to start with. Just getting to know her will quickly enable you to see pretty soon if she has a genuine faith.

A good portion of women on Christian dating sites are hoebags who want a nice man now.

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #7 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 21:45:23 »
So I've got a problem.  I am a Christian and don't believe in premarital sex.  I am single.  I don't look like the type of guy that would be Christian and chaste.  Girls often think I am flirting with them when I say "good morning" or just smile.  It's annoying.

Sometimes I do flirt with girls, intentionally, with the purpose of asking them out.  I am interested in dating another chaste Christian.  So, in order to rebut the presumption created by my appearance, I started telling girls that I am Christian and that I don't have premarital sex.

All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin.  This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either 1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or 2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.

So, the dillemma is that my statement about myself (Christian, no premarital sex) is incentivizing lies from the women that approach.  I think that I need to stop admitting these things about myself so that I can find out what type of person the girl is without her feeling the need to conform to my personality and beliefs.

The "riddle" is this:

What do I say to a girl I've just met that will get her to honestly admit to her own honest beliefs about God and chastity without incentivizing a lie?

Save the comments about how I don't need to be shy about declaring my faith.  I will declare my faith.  I just want honest answers.  If I want truth about the person that I want to date, I should be able to get it.

I have a riddle in return:

All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin. 
This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either:
1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or
2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.


Here is the riddle:
How do you know these virgins are not virgins after all, unless you checked it out for yourself?
If these girls are liars, then how would you know they are not lying about not being a virgin?

Here is the next riddle:
What makes you think you are the "better man" these girls actually "deserve"?

Offline mommydi

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #8 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 22:06:36 »


I have a riddle in return:


Here is the riddle:
How do you know these virgins are not virgins after all, unless you checked it out for yourself?
If these girls are liars, then how would you know they are not lying about not being a virgin?

Here is the next riddle:
What makes you think you are the "better man" these girls actually "deserve"?


Best questions, ever!!! +1 AVZ

Waiting for the answers.  ::eatingpopcorn:

Offline mommydi

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #9 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 22:15:48 »


In answer to your first question, I look like a "hound-dog."  Do not ask any further questions about my appearance.  The facts that I gave are sufficient, as they form the basis for my thought process and why I began telling girls that I am Christian and chaste.


Hey now. Don't order people around on what to ask and what not to ask. You said you look like a "hound-dog." Did you mean hound-dog or horndog? Both are sexually charged terms, so it's kind of odd that you'd admit to such, then complain that women aren't pure enough for you. You say you're "chaste." Are you a virgin or a non-virgin who is celibate now?

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #10 on: Wed May 31, 2017 - 22:36:30 »


A good portion of women on Christian dating sites are hoebags who want a nice man now.

What portion of the men on Christian dating sites have had sex with more than one person? Just wondering.

Offline trevans1977

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #11 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 01:17:42 »
A few things come to mind in regards to Christian dating.

Pray about the woman, ask God what he thinks regarding you having a relationship with her.

Explore how strong her commitment to Jesus is.

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #12 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 05:14:38 »
The "riddle" is this:

What do I say to a girl I've just met that will get her to honestly admit to her own honest beliefs about God and chastity without incentivizing a lie?

Save the comments about how I don't need to be shy about declaring my faith.  I will declare my faith.  I just want honest answers.  If I want truth about the person that I want to date, I should be able to get it.
You want the females to believe you without any questioning, yet, you will NOT show the same charity to them! We all are sinners and even the best will NEVER be totally honest about themselves, NEVER. We think everyone should totally open up to us when we never open totally up to anyone not even to our own spouse!  All men will always speak about their own virtues and exalt them higher than the next person~that's WHO WE ARE by nature.  That's why God command us to look NOT own our own things, but on the things of others. Mr. "Hunk of a man"~you said:
Quote
I am single.  I don't look like the type of guy that would be Christian and chaste.
humble yourself a little and maybe the virgin may come along and fall into you lap~I would not worry so much about being a virgin as much as her humility, faith, and love for God. The woman at the well had five husbands and living with the sixth, yet was humble and believe in God. For sure she loved sex, which is a good thing! 
« Last Edit: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 05:36:46 by RB »

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #13 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 06:12:44 »


A good portion of women on Christian dating sites are hoebags who want a nice man now.

What portion of the men on Christian dating sites have had sex with more than one person? Just wondering.

Probably a few liars there as well, but since I am not a chick I wouldn't know.

I do know from my experience on a Christian dating site, there are quite a few "Christian" women that have lived like hell and continue to live like hell that are on Christian dating sites.

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #14 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 07:54:42 »


A good portion of women on Christian dating sites are hoebags who want a nice man now.

What portion of the men on Christian dating sites have had sex with more than one person? Just wondering.

Probably a few liars there as well, but since I am not a chick I wouldn't know.

I do know from my experience on a Christian dating site, there are quite a few "Christian" women that have lived like hell and continue to live like hell that are on Christian dating sites.

The same is for the men.

My experience has been too  many Christian men talk the talk but in no way walk the walk when it comes to
saving it for marriage.

I had one say to me , just a few years ago, when the subject came up... "Not at this stage of the game."
Of course he had been married, and also single for a period of time.

Churches have fail to deliver a proper message about abstinence and chastity. And the value of that.

And so has society , as a whole.


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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #15 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 08:18:47 »
RB  +1 and more if I could.

Rella- That's interesting to get a female's side of the Christian dating sites. The only time I was on a Christian dating site, it wasn't to hook-up, it was to help my friend look for someone she knew was there. We both got accounts. I wasn't posting, and neither was she, but we had to get an account there to look for this person. Immediately after I signed up, I was contacted by a guy with an extremely flirtatious message to me. He also told me his name and location, and to my shock, he was a friend of my son'srofl rofl rofl That skeeved me out and I immediately deleted my membership.  rofl
I never told my son. I think I will. He'll get a kick out of it.  ::giggle:: 


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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #16 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 08:35:54 »
RB  +1 and more if I could.

Rella- That's interesting to get a female's side of the Christian dating sites. The only time I was on a Christian dating site, it wasn't to hook-up, it was to help my friend look for someone she knew was there. We both got accounts. I wasn't posting, and neither was she, but we had to get an account there to look for this person. Immediately after I signed up, I was contacted by a guy with an extremely flirtatious message to me. He also told me his name and location, and to my shock, he was a friend of my son'srofl rofl rofl That skeeved me out and I immediately deleted my membership.  rofl
I never told my son. I think I will. He'll get a kick out of it.  ::giggle::

I have used one of the big Christian dating sites.  I found out more about several women on there.  I am not expecting to find a woman who is in their 30's who is a virgin in today's society, but I am not gonna make the same mistake I made the first time and get involved with someone with whom I should not.

Quite a few of these women on there have multiple kids by multiple men, if you see their facebook profile it contradicts what they are looking for online.

A good woman can really improve a man's life.  It's better to live on the corner of your roof than live with a bad woman, as scripture and personal experience attest.

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #17 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 09:13:29 »

Getting back to one of RB's excellent points about people not being 100% open and honest about sexual history -

This is something I learned in one of my Human Sexuality courses - people don't even answer private sex surveys honestly. In surveys, men tend to round up and women tend to round down. However, it is generally accepted that women have met, and maybe are surpassing men on numbers of sex partners.

Back to the honesty -
Maybe the best approach is communication (although realizing your partner will most likely not be 100% honest) and testing for STDs before sex.  ::shrug::

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #18 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 09:17:53 »

Getting back to one of RB's excellent points about people not being 100% open and honest about sexual history -

This is something I learned in one of my Human Sexuality courses - people don't even answer private sex surveys honestly. In surveys, men tend to round up and women tend to round down. However, it is generally accepted that women have met, and maybe are surpassing men on numbers of sex partners.

Back to the honesty -
Maybe the best approach is communication (although realizing your partner will most likely not be 100% honest) and testing for STDs before sex.  ::shrug::

I expect honesty.  If honest communication isn't possible,  staying single is the best option.

Offline john330

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Re: Problem/Riddle
« Reply #19 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:07:27 »
    So I've got a problem.  I am a Christian and don't believe in premarital sex.  I am single.  I don't look like the type of guy that would be Christian and chaste.  Girls often think I am flirting with them when I say "good morning" or just smile.  It's annoying.

    Sometimes I do flirt with girls, intentionally, with the purpose of asking them out.  I am interested in dating another chaste Christian.  So, in order to rebut the presumption created by my appearance, I started telling girls that I am Christian and that I don't have premarital sex.

    All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin.  This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either 1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or 2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.

    So, the dillemma is that my statement about myself (Christian, no premarital sex) is incentivizing lies from the women that approach.  I think that I need to stop admitting these things about myself so that I can find out what type of person the girl is without her feeling the need to conform to my personality and beliefs.

    The "riddle" is this:

    What do I say to a girl I've just met that will get her to honestly admit to her own honest beliefs about God and chastity without incentivizing a lie?

    Save the comments about how I don't need to be shy about declaring my faith.  I will declare my faith.  I just want honest answers.  If I want truth about the person that I want to date, I should be able to get it.

    I have a riddle in return:

    All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin. 
    This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either:
    1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or
    2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.


    Here is the riddle:
    How do you know these virgins are not virgins after all, unless you checked it out for yourself?
    If these girls are liars, then how would you know they are not lying about not being a virgin?

    Here is the next riddle:
    What makes you think you are the "better man" these girls actually "deserve"?

    1. How do I know these girls are not virgins?
    Some people told me that they slept with some of them.  With some of them, the question of whether they were virgins is still left open.  But the question of whether they were Christians was defeated.  For example, one girl told me she was a Christian virgin.  She wanted to do other prohibited activities besides actual intercourse (which I also do not believe in).  She didn't go to church and smoked marijuana.
    2.I do not understand your second question about girls being liars.  Please clarify.
    3. Next Riddle:
    A. Didn't say I was a better man that these girls deserve.  Reread statement.
    B. However, a Christian who tries his/her best to live the Christ life is superior to others who do not in some ways.  This is how:
    i. If Jesus is the Son of God, then it is superior to be a Christian than a non-Christian.
    ii. If Christianity teaches that Christians should behave in certain ways, such as by only having sex within marriage, then it is better to obey these teachings than not to obey these teachings (which reflect, in the mind of the Christian, God's will).
    iii. No one can have faith in Jesus nor obey the will of God without GRACE.
    iv. One possessing grace is in a better position than one not possessing grace.  One with faith in Christ is saved, the other is not. 
    v. Thus, the Christian is better in certain ways than the non-Christian.

    However, the "better man" hypothesis is a guess on my part.  I do not know that is what these girls are thinking.  I made this guess because of the way that girls began reacting differently after I changed my method of describing myself (saying I am Christian, don't have sex).  I can see the wheels turning in your mind as you read this.  You are thinking: "You can't say they are thinking that cause you don't know and you're judgmental!"  You are right.  I do not know.  That's why I used the word "guess" earlier, and included two guesses..  A guess is a possibility, not a certainty.  If there are other possibilities, I would be interested in hearing them...as this will allow me to separate wheat from chaff more efficiently.  I make this guess because some people, Christian and non-Christian, generally believe that people who follow certain rules and have certain characteristics are "better" than other people.  Whether they are better or not does not really matter...people make this assumption whether you like it or not.  For example, you would never think or say that a man who cheats on his wife is better than a man who is faithful.  In fact, you would say that the opposite is true.  You, I, and most everyone else make these assumptions.  So in some circumstances, when I am talking to a girl and tell her I am Christian and don't have sex, and she believes me, she will assume that I am more likely to be faithful and thus am better than promiscuous men.

    Next point: some men and women do not deserve others who are morally superior to themselves.  The promiscuous man does not deserve a faithful Christian girl.  (With some exceptions, see Hosea 1).  As soon as you hear about how one of your Christian girlfriends was cheated on by her promiscuous husband/boyfriend, one of the first things you think is: she deserves better.  If she is a faithful, chaste Christian, she DOES DESERVE BETTER.  Because I am the same, I deserve better, too. 

    There is a logical fallacy which is being perpetrated currently.  That fallacy is that romantic/marital love is unconditional.  It is not.  This is why we take vows at weddings.  You make promises when you are married, which are conditions, upon which your relationship is based.  This does not mean that you do not forgive a breach of these vows in some circumstances.  Nonetheless, monogomous love is by definition love of ONE OTHER PERSON.  This is a condition.  That you will only romantically love the person you are married to.  Romantic love is not like God's love.  God's love is unconditional.  We however, cannot love like God loves.  We are not God. Indeed, Jesus prohibited divorce, with an exception.  The exception is translated variously as “except in the case of infedility (or sometimes "when the marriage is unlawful")"

    It occurs to me as well that you may be offended by the idea that some girl is not "deserving" of love.  Romantic love in a Christian marriage must be earned, by faithful christian behavior.  If you date someone who cheats on you, you should break up with this person, as he/she has not earned your love and trust.  If he/she cannot be faithful in dating you, then he/she cannot be faithful in marriage.  Do not throw your pearls before swine.

    It also occurs to me that you may be offended by the "better man" concept, as this might imply that someone is arrogant.  I will refer you to C.S. Lewis.  C.S. Lewis trumpets excellence of all kinds.  Actually, Christianity is all about excellence.  As Irenaeus, early bishop of the church said, "God's greatest glory is man fully realized."  Arrogance is a sin.  Excellence is not.  We need not be arrogant about the GIFT of God's grace to realize that God's grace is true excellence, and it is BETTER than ANYTHING ELSE.  So if you thought that when I used the phrase "better man" that I meant "I am above everyone else and will violently inflict my greatness upon humanity" then you are wrong. 

    "Better" in this sense means "more desirable."  It is more desirable to eat steak than mud, it is more desirable to have $1 million than $1, it is more desirable to be saved than not saved.

    I really shouldn't have to explain these things.  Clearly evident from scripture and common sense.
    [li[/li]
    [li][/li]
    [/list]


    Offline john330

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    Re: Problem/Riddle
    « Reply #20 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:14:15 »
    Not sure what you mean when you say that you don't look like the kind of guy who is a Christian and chaste. What does that kind of guy look like?

    Where are you meeting these girls? In church or a church group or elsewhere? Spending time with a group of young people in a  church setting is a good way of getting to know them and observing them. See if their faith is real by what they say, how they act and how they treat others.  Do they pray? Do they dress modestly? Do they read the Bible? Do they speak well of others? Tell the truth? Do they talk about God and their faith?
    You are not going to meet a godly lady out clubbing for example.

    I think that if you meet a genuine godly girl you won't need to mention sex until you get to know each other well. It's something you can talk about further down the line. If she is keen to have sex early on, then you can tell she isn't godly.

    In answer to your first question, I look like a "hound-dog."  Do not ask any further questions about my appearance.  The facts that I gave are sufficient, as they form the basis for my thought process and why I began telling girls that I am Christian and chaste.

    I do not drink and do not go to bars/clubs.  I meet girls at random. 

    My church does not have young people's groups, and I am not young enough to participate in such groups (mid-thirties).  I think that it is disingenuous to participate in other denominations' singles groups, as the host church organizes these groups for its members.

    In my area people are not strongly Christian.  Most are only nominally Christian.  I am interested in separating the wheat from the chaff, as I should be.

    All Christian men look different, there is no 'type'.
    There are many Christians singles events organized, maybe do some research. Also use Christian dating sites, that how I met my husband. Not sure about where you live, but in the Uk, it's almost impossible to meet a Christian just randomly, you have to mix with other Christians and make the effort to do that.

    I guess if you do manage to meet a Christian girl, you could ask her which church she goes to and go along with her for a while and observe what she is like. If she has no church then that is a red flag to start with. Just getting to know her will quickly enable you to see pretty soon if she has a genuine faith.

    Thanks!!

    Offline john330

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    Re: Problem/Riddle
    « Reply #21 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:17:50 »


    In answer to your first question, I look like a "hound-dog."  Do not ask any further questions about my appearance.  The facts that I gave are sufficient, as they form the basis for my thought process and why I began telling girls that I am Christian and chaste.


    Hey now. Don't order people around on what to ask and what not to ask. You said you look like a "hound-dog." Did you mean hound-dog or horndog? Both are sexually charged terms, so it's kind of odd that you'd admit to such, then complain that women aren't pure enough for you. You say you're "chaste." Are you a virgin or a non-virgin who is celibate now?


    Qust
    « Last Edit: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:38:33 by john330 »

    Offline john330

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    Re: Problem/Riddle
    « Reply #22 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:23:10 »


    In answer to your first question, I look like a "hound-dog."  Do not ask any further questions about my appearance.  The facts that I gave are sufficient, as they form the basis for my thought process and why I began telling girls that I am Christian and chaste.


    Hey now. Don't order people around on what to ask and what not to ask. You said you look like a "hound-dog." Did you mean hound-dog or horndog? Both are sexually charged terms, so it's kind of odd that you'd admit to such, then complain that women aren't pure enough for you. You say you're "chaste." Are you a virgin or a non-virgin who is celibate now?

    Reread the post and you will find the answer to your first question.

    If women want to be impure, that's cool.  Just don't lie to me about it.

    I am a non-virgin who is celibate now.  I do not demand virginity from the girls I date.  I would like to date someone who is trying to practice chastity to the best of her ability, and has faith in Jesus.  I do not demand or expect perfection.  I am a grown man and have made plenty of mistakes.  I will continue to do so, and so will everyone else.  I easily forgive imperfections.  I am honest, in relationships, about my own.  I expect the same honesty from the woman.  I also do not need a laundry list of every guy a girl has been with prior to her conversion.  All I ask is that the girl practice chastity to the best of her ability.

    Offline john330

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    Re: Problem/Riddle
    « Reply #23 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:24:14 »


    A good portion of women on Christian dating sites are hoebags who want a nice man now.

    What portion of the men on Christian dating sites have had sex with more than one person? Just wondering.

    Likely most.

    Offline john330

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    Re: Problem/Riddle
    « Reply #24 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:32:57 »
    The "riddle" is this:

    What do I say to a girl I've just met that will get her to honestly admit to her own honest beliefs about God and chastity without incentivizing a lie?

    Save the comments about how I don't need to be shy about declaring my faith.  I will declare my faith.  I just want honest answers.  If I want truth about the person that I want to date, I should be able to get it.
    You want the females to believe you without any questioning, yet, you will NOT show the same charity to them! We all are sinners and even the best will NEVER be totally honest about themselves, NEVER. We think everyone should totally open up to us when we never open totally up to anyone not even to our own spouse!  All men will always speak about their own virtues and exalt them higher than the next person~that's WHO WE ARE by nature.  That's why God command us to look NOT own our own things, but on the things of others. Mr. "Hunk of a man"~you said:
    Quote
    I am single.  I don't look like the type of guy that would be Christian and chaste.
    humble yourself a little and maybe the virgin may come along and fall into you lap~I would not worry so much about being a virgin as much as her humility, faith, and love for God. The woman at the well had five husbands and living with the sixth, yet was humble and believe in God. For sure she loved sex, which is a good thing!

    Yup.  No one will ever be completely honest, and likely shouldn't be.  But lying about being Christian and a virgin is pretty bad.  I don't require a virgin.  I would like to date a woman with faith in Jesus who is trying to live chastely to the best of her ability.  Perfection is impossible.  I never said that it was.

    Also, didn't say that I was a "hunk of a man."  How do you know that I don't look like a convict?  Or a con-man?  Never said anything about good looks.  I have a certain look that creates a presumption of untrustworthiness.  I have been told this by every gierl I have dated through adulthood.

    You talk about humility.  Yes.  Humility is a superior trait.  Can't agree more.  However, you should read my long reply earlier which discusses my definition of "better" as it relates to "better men."  Sounds like there is a definitional misconnect here.

    AVZ

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    Re: Problem/Riddle
    « Reply #25 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:36:49 »
      So I've got a problem.  I am a Christian and don't believe in premarital sex.  I am single.  I don't look like the type of guy that would be Christian and chaste.  Girls often think I am flirting with them when I say "good morning" or just smile.  It's annoying.

      Sometimes I do flirt with girls, intentionally, with the purpose of asking them out.  I am interested in dating another chaste Christian.  So, in order to rebut the presumption created by my appearance, I started telling girls that I am Christian and that I don't have premarital sex.

      All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin.  This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either 1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or 2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.

      So, the dillemma is that my statement about myself (Christian, no premarital sex) is incentivizing lies from the women that approach.  I think that I need to stop admitting these things about myself so that I can find out what type of person the girl is without her feeling the need to conform to my personality and beliefs.

      The "riddle" is this:

      What do I say to a girl I've just met that will get her to honestly admit to her own honest beliefs about God and chastity without incentivizing a lie?

      Save the comments about how I don't need to be shy about declaring my faith.  I will declare my faith.  I just want honest answers.  If I want truth about the person that I want to date, I should be able to get it.

      I have a riddle in return:

      All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin. 
      This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either:
      1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or
      2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.


      Here is the riddle:
      How do you know these virgins are not virgins after all, unless you checked it out for yourself?
      If these girls are liars, then how would you know they are not lying about not being a virgin?

      Here is the next riddle:
      What makes you think you are the "better man" these girls actually "deserve"?

      1. How do I know these girls are not virgins?
      Some people told me that they slept with some of them.  With some of them, the question of whether they were virgins is still left open.  But the question of whether they were Christians was defeated.  For example, one girl told me she was a Christian virgin.  She wanted to do other prohibited activities besides actual intercourse (which I also do not believe in).  She didn't go to church and smoked marijuana.
      2.I do not understand your second question about girls being liars.  Please clarify.
      3. Next Riddle:
      A. Didn't say I was a better man that these girls deserve.  Reread statement.
      B. However, a Christian who tries his/her best to live the Christ life is superior to others who do not in some ways.  This is how:
      i. If Jesus is the Son of God, then it is superior to be a Christian than a non-Christian.
      ii. If Christianity teaches that Christians should behave in certain ways, such as by only having sex within marriage, then it is better to obey these teachings than not to obey these teachings (which reflect, in the mind of the Christian, God's will).
      iii. No one can have faith in Jesus nor obey the will of God without GRACE.
      iv. One possessing grace is in a better position than one not possessing grace.  One with faith in Christ is saved, the other is not. 
      v. Thus, the Christian is better in certain ways than the non-Christian.

      However, the "better man" hypothesis is a guess on my part.  I do not know that is what these girls are thinking.  I made this guess because of the way that girls began reacting differently after I changed my method of describing myself (saying I am Christian, don't have sex).  I can see the wheels turning in your mind as you read this.  You are thinking: "You can't say they are thinking that cause you don't know and you're judgmental!"  You are right.  I do not know.  That's why I used the word "guess" earlier, and included two guesses..  A guess is a possibility, not a certainty.  If there are other possibilities, I would be interested in hearing them...as this will allow me to separate wheat from chaff more efficiently.  I make this guess because some people, Christian and non-Christian, generally believe that people who follow certain rules and have certain characteristics are "better" than other people.  Whether they are better or not does not really matter...people make this assumption whether you like it or not.  For example, you would never think or say that a man who cheats on his wife is better than a man who is faithful.  In fact, you would say that the opposite is true.  You, I, and most everyone else make these assumptions.  So in some circumstances, when I am talking to a girl and tell her I am Christian and don't have sex, and she believes me, she will assume that I am more likely to be faithful and thus am better than promiscuous men.

      Next point: some men and women do not deserve others who are morally superior to themselves.  The promiscuous man does not deserve a faithful Christian girl.  (With some exceptions, see Hosea 1).  As soon as you hear about how one of your Christian girlfriends was cheated on by her promiscuous husband/boyfriend, one of the first things you think is: she deserves better.  If she is a faithful, chaste Christian, she DOES DESERVE BETTER.  Because I am the same, I deserve better, too. 

      There is a logical fallacy which is being perpetrated currently.  That fallacy is that romantic/marital love is unconditional.  It is not.  This is why we take vows at weddings.  You make promises when you are married, which are conditions, upon which your relationship is based.  This does not mean that you do not forgive a breach of these vows in some circumstances.  Nonetheless, monogomous love is by definition love of ONE OTHER PERSON.  This is a condition.  That you will only romantically love the person you are married to.  Romantic love is not like God's love.  God's love is unconditional.  We however, cannot love like God loves.  We are not God. Indeed, Jesus prohibited divorce, with an exception.  The exception is translated variously as “except in the case of infedility (or sometimes "when the marriage is unlawful")"

      It occurs to me as well that you may be offended by the idea that some girl is not "deserving" of love.  Romantic love in a Christian marriage must be earned, by faithful christian behavior.  If you date someone who cheats on you, you should break up with this person, as he/she has not earned your love and trust.  If he/she cannot be faithful in dating you, then he/she cannot be faithful in marriage.  Do not throw your pearls before swine.

      It also occurs to me that you may be offended by the "better man" concept, as this might imply that someone is arrogant.  I will refer you to C.S. Lewis.  C.S. Lewis trumpets excellence of all kinds.  Actually, Christianity is all about excellence.  As Irenaeus, early bishop of the church said, "God's greatest glory is man fully realized."  Arrogance is a sin.  Excellence is not.  We need not be arrogant about the GIFT of God's grace to realize that God's grace is true excellence, and it is BETTER than ANYTHING ELSE.  So if you thought that when I used the phrase "better man" that I meant "I am above everyone else and will violently inflict my greatness upon humanity" then you are wrong. 

      "Better" in this sense means "more desirable."  It is more desirable to eat steak than mud, it is more desirable to have $1 million than $1, it is more desirable to be saved than not saved.

      I really shouldn't have to explain these things.  Clearly evident from scripture and common sense.
      [li[/li]
      [li][/li]
      [/list]

      I will address your question 1 and 3 first, and then comment on your question 2.

      This is not about what other people deserve or how other people organize their lives. I completely agree that a good woman deserves a good man, and vice versa.
      This topic is however about how you display it to be.
      Your claim is that some of the women you met, lie because they then get the better man (that would be you) and they do not deserve that.
      You clearly are talking about yourself. You are the better man, and you most certainly think you are too good for these women.

      So how do you determine your are better than them: they are not virgins and they lie.
      Well, then. That would make you better than all Christians I know, including myself. I am sure every Christian lies or has lied.
      But let me talk for myself: I most definitely have told people in the past that I was something that I was not. I assume you have never done something like that.
      So lets imagine the girl would lie about the aftershave you wear, would that make her a bad Christian not deserving you? After all, a lie is a lie, it shouldn't matter what it is about.

      About your second question.
      Has it ever occurred to you that these girls may think you are a bit stuck up? I mean, you seem to have quite a impression of yourself.
      Maybe they feel you come on to them very strong? And perhaps the girl then tells you that she is not a virgin after all so you lose interest in her?

      And finally some advice for when you are married.
      Once you have found your mate and you are married, there will be a day when she comes up to you and asks you the question: "Do you think I am fat" or "if I die, will you get married again"?
      When that happens I want you to think back at this thread before you decide to tell her the truth or not.

      Offline john330

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      Re: Problem/Riddle
      « Reply #26 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 10:55:30 »
        So I've got a problem.  I am a Christian and don't believe in premarital sex.  I am single.  I don't look like the type of guy that would be Christian and chaste.  Girls often think I am flirting with them when I say "good morning" or just smile.  It's annoying.

        Sometimes I do flirt with girls, intentionally, with the purpose of asking them out.  I am interested in dating another chaste Christian.  So, in order to rebut the presumption created by my appearance, I started telling girls that I am Christian and that I don't have premarital sex.

        All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin.  This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either 1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or 2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.

        So, the dillemma is that my statement about myself (Christian, no premarital sex) is incentivizing lies from the women that approach.  I think that I need to stop admitting these things about myself so that I can find out what type of person the girl is without her feeling the need to conform to my personality and beliefs.

        The "riddle" is this:

        What do I say to a girl I've just met that will get her to honestly admit to her own honest beliefs about God and chastity without incentivizing a lie?

        Save the comments about how I don't need to be shy about declaring my faith.  I will declare my faith.  I just want honest answers.  If I want truth about the person that I want to date, I should be able to get it.

        I have a riddle in return:

        All of the sudden, every girl that I met was a Christian virgin. 
        This seemed a little bit fishy to me.  As it turned out, they were pretty much all lying.  My theory is that they either:
        1) felt pressured by my confession to say exactly the same thing that I said about myself; or
        2) are willing to lie to get a better man than they actually deserve.


        Here is the riddle:
        How do you know these virgins are not virgins after all, unless you checked it out for yourself?
        If these girls are liars, then how would you know they are not lying about not being a virgin?

        Here is the next riddle:
        What makes you think you are the "better man" these girls actually "deserve"?

        1. How do I know these girls are not virgins?
        Some people told me that they slept with some of them.  With some of them, the question of whether they were virgins is still left open.  But the question of whether they were Christians was defeated.  For example, one girl told me she was a Christian virgin.  She wanted to do other prohibited activities besides actual intercourse (which I also do not believe in).  She didn't go to church and smoked marijuana.
        2.I do not understand your second question about girls being liars.  Please clarify.
        3. Next Riddle:
        A. Didn't say I was a better man that these girls deserve.  Reread statement.
        B. However, a Christian who tries his/her best to live the Christ life is superior to others who do not in some ways.  This is how:
        i. If Jesus is the Son of God, then it is superior to be a Christian than a non-Christian.
        ii. If Christianity teaches that Christians should behave in certain ways, such as by only having sex within marriage, then it is better to obey these teachings than not to obey these teachings (which reflect, in the mind of the Christian, God's will).
        iii. No one can have faith in Jesus nor obey the will of God without GRACE.
        iv. One possessing grace is in a better position than one not possessing grace.  One with faith in Christ is saved, the other is not. 
        v. Thus, the Christian is better in certain ways than the non-Christian.

        However, the "better man" hypothesis is a guess on my part.  I do not know that is what these girls are thinking.  I made this guess because of the way that girls began reacting differently after I changed my method of describing myself (saying I am Christian, don't have sex).  I can see the wheels turning in your mind as you read this.  You are thinking: "You can't say they are thinking that cause you don't know and you're judgmental!"  You are right.  I do not know.  That's why I used the word "guess" earlier, and included two guesses..  A guess is a possibility, not a certainty.  If there are other possibilities, I would be interested in hearing them...as this will allow me to separate wheat from chaff more efficiently.  I make this guess because some people, Christian and non-Christian, generally believe that people who follow certain rules and have certain characteristics are "better" than other people.  Whether they are better or not does not really matter...people make this assumption whether you like it or not.  For example, you would never think or say that a man who cheats on his wife is better than a man who is faithful.  In fact, you would say that the opposite is true.  You, I, and most everyone else make these assumptions.  So in some circumstances, when I am talking to a girl and tell her I am Christian and don't have sex, and she believes me, she will assume that I am more likely to be faithful and thus am better than promiscuous men.

        Next point: some men and women do not deserve others who are morally superior to themselves.  The promiscuous man does not deserve a faithful Christian girl.  (With some exceptions, see Hosea 1).  As soon as you hear about how one of your Christian girlfriends was cheated on by her promiscuous husband/boyfriend, one of the first things you think is: she deserves better.  If she is a faithful, chaste Christian, she DOES DESERVE BETTER.  Because I am the same, I deserve better, too. 

        There is a logical fallacy which is being perpetrated currently.  That fallacy is that romantic/marital love is unconditional.  It is not.  This is why we take vows at weddings.  You make promises when you are married, which are conditions, upon which your relationship is based.  This does not mean that you do not forgive a breach of these vows in some circumstances.  Nonetheless, monogomous love is by definition love of ONE OTHER PERSON.  This is a condition.  That you will only romantically love the person you are married to.  Romantic love is not like God's love.  God's love is unconditional.  We however, cannot love like God loves.  We are not God. Indeed, Jesus prohibited divorce, with an exception.  The exception is translated variously as “except in the case of infedility (or sometimes "when the marriage is unlawful")"

        It occurs to me as well that you may be offended by the idea that some girl is not "deserving" of love.  Romantic love in a Christian marriage must be earned, by faithful christian behavior.  If you date someone who cheats on you, you should break up with this person, as he/she has not earned your love and trust.  If he/she cannot be faithful in dating you, then he/she cannot be faithful in marriage.  Do not throw your pearls before swine.

        It also occurs to me that you may be offended by the "better man" concept, as this might imply that someone is arrogant.  I will refer you to C.S. Lewis.  C.S. Lewis trumpets excellence of all kinds.  Actually, Christianity is all about excellence.  As Irenaeus, early bishop of the church said, "God's greatest glory is man fully realized."  Arrogance is a sin.  Excellence is not.  We need not be arrogant about the GIFT of God's grace to realize that God's grace is true excellence, and it is BETTER than ANYTHING ELSE.  So if you thought that when I used the phrase "better man" that I meant "I am above everyone else and will violently inflict my greatness upon humanity" then you are wrong. 

        "Better" in this sense means "more desirable."  It is more desirable to eat steak than mud, it is more desirable to have $1 million than $1, it is more desirable to be saved than not saved.

        I really shouldn't have to explain these things.  Clearly evident from scripture and common sense.
        [li[/li]
        [li][/li]
        [/list]

        I will address your question 1 and 3 first, and then comment on your question 2.

        This is not about what other people deserve or how other people organize their lives. I completely agree that a good woman deserves a good man, and vice versa.
        This topic is however about how you display it to be.
        Your claim is that some of the women you met, lie because they then get the better man (that would be you) and they do not deserve that.
        You clearly are talking about yourself. You are the better man, and you most certainly think you are too good for these women.

        So how do you determine your are better than them: they are not virgins and they lie.
        Well, then. That would make you better than all Christians I know, including myself. I am sure every Christian lies or has lied.
        But let me talk for myself: I most definitely have told people in the past that I was something that I was not. I assume you have never done something like that.
        So lets imagine the girl would lie about the aftershave you wear, would that make her a bad Christian not deserving you? After all, a lie is a lie, it shouldn't matter what it is about.

        About your second question.
        Has it ever occurred to you that these girls may think you are a bit stuck up? I mean, you seem to have quite a impression of yourself.
        Maybe they feel you come on to them very strong? And perhaps the girl then tells you that she is not a virgin after all so you lose interest in her?

        And finally some advice for when you are married.
        Once you have found your mate and you are married, there will be a day when she comes up to you and asks you the question: "Do you think I am fat" or "if I die, will you get married again"?
        When that happens I want you to think back at this thread before you decide to tell her the truth or not.

        AVZ, you and others be trolling.

        So  many comments are non-responsive to the question in bold.

        In response to your comments on question one: YES.  Unequivocally, one possessing God's grace is in better position than one not possessing God's grace.

        When you say, "This topic is as you display it to be," it sounds like you are saying "I want this topic to be about john330 being arrogant, so I am going to address this topic not as the question that john330 asked, but as an attack on what I want the topic to be about."  Is this what you are saying here?  Instead, I would like to tell you that this topic is about eliminating false pretenses from my dating life.

        Reread the post that you responded to in order to receive an answer to your comments about "being better than others," and "virgins and lying."

        Yes, everyone lies.  Lies are inferior to truth.  Thus, I prefer to truth to lies.  The fact that everyone lies does not mean that I should prefer lies to truth.  The fact that I have lied, and will lie again, does not make a lie better than truth.  Look.  I just want a method to determine whether a girl actually has faith in Jesus and practices chastity to the best of her ability.  I don't have to date a virgin.  Girls started telling me they were virgins on their own after I began telling them that I was Christian and don't have sex.  Why can't you just accept my experience as true, or in the very least, as a hypothetical, and ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED IN THE OP.

        On your comment to second question: If I come across as stuck up, this comment is pertinent.  But you have never met me.  You are discussing this based upon misreading the OP.  The OP presents a scenario that actually happened to me, and asks for advice based upon that scenario.  ANSWER THE QUESTION BASED ON THE SCENARIO AS PRESENTED IN THE OP.

        Last comment: Ok.  When my future wife (God willing), asks me whether she is fat or if I will get married again, I will think back to AVZ and this thread.  (Rolling eyes)

        Offline john330

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        Re: Problem/Riddle
        « Reply #27 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 11:33:40 »
        I want to apologize to this online community for responding to argumentative posts.  Many posters actually answered the question posed in the OP honestly, in an attempt to give good advice.  I am grateful to those who have done so.  I should not have replied to posts that attacked me.  I did so in a defensive manner.  I will refrain from replying to these posts through the duration of this thread. 

        I only wanted honest answers to my original question.  Thanks for those of you that replied to it!

        Offline john330

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        Re: Problem/Riddle
        « Reply #28 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 11:51:09 »
        Not sure what you mean when you say that you don't look like the kind of guy who is a Christian and chaste. What does that kind of guy look like?

        Where are you meeting these girls? In church or a church group or elsewhere? Spending time with a group of young people in a  church setting is a good way of getting to know them and observing them. See if their faith is real by what they say, how they act and how they treat others.  Do they pray? Do they dress modestly? Do they read the Bible? Do they speak well of others? Tell the truth? Do they talk about God and their faith?
        You are not going to meet a godly lady out clubbing for example.

        I think that if you meet a genuine godly girl you won't need to mention sex until you get to know each other well. It's something you can talk about further down the line. If she is keen to have sex early on, then you can tell she isn't godly.

        In answer to your first question, I look like a "hound-dog."  Do not ask any further questions about my appearance.  The facts that I gave are sufficient, as they form the basis for my thought process and why I began telling girls that I am Christian and chaste.

        I do not drink and do not go to bars/clubs.  I meet girls at random. 

        My church does not have young people's groups, and I am not young enough to participate in such groups (mid-thirties).  I think that it is disingenuous to participate in other denominations' singles groups, as the host church organizes these groups for its members.

        In my area people are not strongly Christian.  Most are only nominally Christian.  I am interested in separating the wheat from the chaff, as I should be.

        All Christian men look different, there is no 'type'.
        There are many Christians singles events organized, maybe do some research. Also use Christian dating sites, that how I met my husband. Not sure about where you live, but in the Uk, it's almost impossible to meet a Christian just randomly, you have to mix with other Christians and make the effort to do that.

        I guess if you do manage to meet a Christian girl, you could ask her which church she goes to and go along with her for a while and observe what she is like. If she has no church then that is a red flag to start with. Just getting to know her will quickly enable you to see pretty soon if she has a genuine faith.

        Thanks for the advice!  I will look into these singles events.  I agree that not going to church is a red flag, thought it is not conclusive on the issue of whether girl is a Christian.  Being part of a Christian community is usually a good sign.

        Offline john330

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        Re: Problem/Riddle
        « Reply #29 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 11:51:59 »
        A few things come to mind in regards to Christian dating.

        Pray about the woman, ask God what he thinks regarding you having a relationship with her.

        Explore how strong her commitment to Jesus is.

        Thanks!

        Offline john330

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        Re: Problem/Riddle
        « Reply #30 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 11:55:17 »


        A good portion of women on Christian dating sites are hoebags who want a nice man now.

        What portion of the men on Christian dating sites have had sex with more than one person? Just wondering.

        Probably a few liars there as well, but since I am not a chick I wouldn't know.

        I do know from my experience on a Christian dating site, there are quite a few "Christian" women that have lived like hell and continue to live like hell that are on Christian dating sites.

        The same is for the men.

        My experience has been too  many Christian men talk the talk but in no way walk the walk when it comes to
        saving it for marriage.

        I had one say to me , just a few years ago, when the subject came up... "Not at this stage of the game."
        Of course he had been married, and also single for a period of time.

        Churches have fail to deliver a proper message about abstinence and chastity. And the value of that.

        And so has society , as a whole.

        Yes.  It feels as though war is being made on chastity.  Makes it difficult to find someone who is doing their best to live chastely.  No one is perfect in this regard, let alone me.  If an unchaste person were willing to stop unchaste behaviors and be faithful, this would be a scenario I would be prepared to accept.  However, it seems as though unchastity is correlated with faithlessness in marriage.

        Offline john330

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        Re: Problem/Riddle
        « Reply #31 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 12:00:36 »

        Getting back to one of RB's excellent points about people not being 100% open and honest about sexual history -

        This is something I learned in one of my Human Sexuality courses - people don't even answer private sex surveys honestly. In surveys, men tend to round up and women tend to round down. However, it is generally accepted that women have met, and maybe are surpassing men on numbers of sex partners.

        Back to the honesty -
        Maybe the best approach is communication (although realizing your partner will most likely not be 100% honest) and testing for STDs before sex.  ::shrug::

        One of the things I have considered is trying to communicate that I do not have a perfect history, and do not expect the girl to.  Recently, I had a girl tell me she was a virgin and found out later that this was not true.  While we were dating, I continued to give her opportunities to come clean.  I expressed that I was indifferent about whether she was actually a virgin, and told her, "i like you whether you are or not.  Doesn't matter to me."  She continued in the lie.  I would have been content to allow her to continue in the lie, but we broke up for other reasons.  I don't want girls to feel like they have to lie to me.  It undermines the relationship.

        Offline mommydi

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        Re: Problem/Riddle
        « Reply #32 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 12:20:15 »

        Getting back to one of RB's excellent points about people not being 100% open and honest about sexual history -

        This is something I learned in one of my Human Sexuality courses - people don't even answer private sex surveys honestly. In surveys, men tend to round up and women tend to round down. However, it is generally accepted that women have met, and maybe are surpassing men on numbers of sex partners.

        Back to the honesty -
        Maybe the best approach is communication (although realizing your partner will most likely not be 100% honest) and testing for STDs before sex.  ::shrug::

        One of the things I have considered is trying to communicate that I do not have a perfect history, and do not expect the girl to.  Recently, I had a girl tell me she was a virgin and found out later that this was not true.  While we were dating, I continued to give her opportunities to come clean.  I expressed that I was indifferent about whether she was actually a virgin, and told her, "i like you whether you are or not.  Doesn't matter to me."  She continued in the lie.  I would have been content to allow her to continue in the lie, but we broke up for other reasons.  I don't want girls to feel like they have to lie to me.  It undermines the relationship.

        John, reply to me or not, but unless you watched her having sex,  IDK how you know for certain she was lying about her virginity. If you're basing your determination of a girl's virginity on gossip, then you could very well be wrong. When I was in 8th grade, and a virgin, a boy at school had a love/hate relationship with me. Long story short, but he started spreading all kinds of rumors about me and even concocted a story about me losing my virginity to an 18 year old guy in another town. Everything about these rumors were 100% false. In 8th grade, I had never even kissed a boy, or held a boy's hand, but yet, these rumors spread like wildfire. Some people believed him. Others didn't.
        I don't know if the girl you're describing is a virgin or not, but I honestly don't know how you'd know that, either.

        I also think it kind of odd that you demand advice but get defensive when asked for more details.




        Offline john330

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        Re: Problem/Riddle
        « Reply #33 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 12:30:35 »

        Getting back to one of RB's excellent points about people not being 100% open and honest about sexual history -

        This is something I learned in one of my Human Sexuality courses - people don't even answer private sex surveys honestly. In surveys, men tend to round up and women tend to round down. However, it is generally accepted that women have met, and maybe are surpassing men on numbers of sex partners.

        Back to the honesty -
        Maybe the best approach is communication (although realizing your partner will most likely not be 100% honest) and testing for STDs before sex.  ::shrug::

        One of the things I have considered is trying to communicate that I do not have a perfect history, and do not expect the girl to.  Recently, I had a girl tell me she was a virgin and found out later that this was not true.  While we were dating, I continued to give her opportunities to come clean.  I expressed that I was indifferent about whether she was actually a virgin, and told her, "i like you whether you are or not.  Doesn't matter to me."  She continued in the lie.  I would have been content to allow her to continue in the lie, but we broke up for other reasons.  I don't want girls to feel like they have to lie to me.  It undermines the relationship.

        John, reply to me or not, but unless you watched her having sex,  IDK how you know for certain she was lying about her virginity. If you're basing your determination of a girl's virginity on gossip, then you could very well be wrong. When I was in 8th grade, and a virgin, a boy at school had a love/hate relationship with me. Long story short, but he started spreading all kinds of rumors about me and even concocted a story about me losing my virginity to an 18 year old guy in another town. Everything about these rumors were 100% false. In 8th grade, I had never even kissed a boy, or held a boy's hand, but yet, these rumors spread like wildfire. Some people believed him. Others didn't.
        I don't know if the girl you're describing is a virgin or not, but I honestly don't know how you'd know that, either.

        I also think it kind of odd that you demand advice but get defensive when asked for more details.

        Fair enough.  You are right that this could have been unfounded gossip.  This is an additional reason why I would have been content to stay with her.  gossip is not always true.  I would have stayed with her whether the gossip was true or not.  Sadly, we broke up for other unrelated reasons.

        Offline chosenone

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        Re: Problem/Riddle
        « Reply #34 on: Thu Jun 01, 2017 - 12:58:26 »
        Honesty is vital for marriage. Also knowing someone's sexual history is important as well.There are still many who don't have sex outside marriage and who have strong moral values. If a man wouldn't tell me about his past and was lying, that is a no no for me straight away.

        As for dating sites, be choosy about which ones you go on. I am British and the ones I went onto were quite clear on what beliefs you needed to have to be there. Also, dont go onto international ones or free ones. Too many scammers.One of them had a forum as well, and I got to know many really nice men and women during the time I was there.