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Author Topic: the gospel contains doctrine  (Read 3671 times)

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Offline Jimbob

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2009, 01:49:13 PM »
There were no elders or deacons or teachings about either on the day of Pentecost. Did Petrr not preach the gospel that day?

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2009, 01:49:13 PM »

Offline Livelysword

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2009, 01:50:10 PM »
Lively:  And again, you have not listened to what I have openly taught...  teach the first principles... baptize the believers... then teach them to observe all things whatsoever is commanded...  this third time... have you understood it yet?

Sure I have, and I've understood it for over 30 years.  "The believers" are those who believe the gospel.


Lively:   Again, as you are refusing to view it as taught explicitly in scripture...  teach, baptizing them, then after baptism, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:  The word of God teaches what it teaches... either you accept the word of God as truth, or you reject it... it is completely up to you Nick...


Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.




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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2009, 01:50:10 PM »

Offline Livelysword

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2009, 02:02:12 PM »
There were no elders or deacons or teachings about either on the day of Pentecost. Did Petrr not preach the gospel that day?


Lively:  after their baptism on Pentecost, they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine...  If you wish to complain to God in the manor in which He institutes elders and deacons... feel free to take that up with Him...  The apostles were doing the work prior to appointing Deacons over the work... but widows were being neglected in the daily ministration...  So the apostles made choice to appoint deacons to do the work... so the apostles could give themselves to the ministry of the word...  to make sure you are able to have it in hand this day...  feel free to complain to God... I am sure He is already hearing you...  while you are at it... you might also want to complain to Him as well in not bringing in the Gentiles from day one...  as there was no good news for the Gentiles until Cornelius and family were granted repentance unto life...  if only you would study and not complain...  you could actually come to the knowledge of the truth and understand God's purpose in His time of administration...  God hates murmurers and complainers...  hates them...  such is always viewed as rebellion...  always...

Offline DCR

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2009, 03:27:27 PM »
There were no elders or deacons or teachings about either on the day of Pentecost. Did Petrr not preach the gospel that day?


Lively:  after their baptism on Pentecost, they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine...  If you wish to complain to God in the manor in which He institutes elders and deacons... feel free to take that up with Him...  The apostles were doing the work prior to appointing Deacons over the work... but widows were being neglected in the daily ministration...  So the apostles made choice to appoint deacons to do the work... so the apostles could give themselves to the ministry of the word...  to make sure you are able to have it in hand this day...  feel free to complain to God... I am sure He is already hearing you...  while you are at it... you might also want to complain to Him as well in not bringing in the Gentiles from day one...  as there was no good news for the Gentiles until Cornelius and family were granted repentance unto life...  if only you would study and not complain...  you could actually come to the knowledge of the truth and understand God's purpose in His time of administration...  God hates murmurers and complainers...  hates them...  such is always viewed as rebellion...  always...

I see no one complaining about how God institutes elders and deacons.  If that's what you saw, then you misunderstood and missed the point.

The point is... the teaching on elders and deacons was not part of the "gospel" Peter preached on Pentecost by which the 3000 were saved, was it?  This evolved later.  The teaching on elders and deacons is part of the discipline and organization of the churches, not the "gospel" per se.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 03:47:18 PM by DCR »

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2009, 03:27:27 PM »

Offline Jimbob

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2009, 04:00:41 PM »
There were no elders or deacons or teachings about either on the day of Pentecost. Did Petrr not preach the gospel that day?


Lively:  after their baptism on Pentecost, they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine...  If you wish to complain to God in the manor in which He institutes elders and deacons... feel free to take that up with Him...  The apostles were doing the work prior to appointing Deacons over the work... but widows were being neglected in the daily ministration...  So the apostles made choice to appoint deacons to do the work... so the apostles could give themselves to the ministry of the word...  to make sure you are able to have it in hand this day...  feel free to complain to God... I am sure He is already hearing you...  while you are at it... you might also want to complain to Him as well in not bringing in the Gentiles from day one...  as there was no good news for the Gentiles until Cornelius and family were granted repentance unto life...  if only you would study and not complain...  you could actually come to the knowledge of the truth and understand God's purpose in His time of administration...  God hates murmurers and complainers...  hates them...  such is always viewed as rebellion...  always...

I see no one complaining about how God institutes elders and deacons.  If that's what you saw, then you misunderstood and missed the point.

The point is... the teaching on elders and deacons was not part of the "gospel" Peter preached on Pentecost by which the 3000 were saved, was it?  This evolved later.  The teaching on elders and deacons is part of the discipline and organization of the churches, not the "gospel" per se.
Right, DCR.  And these would not be the only doctrines, by any stretch.

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2009, 04:00:41 PM »



Offline Mere Nick

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2009, 05:14:26 PM »
Again, as you are refusing to view it as taught explicitly in scripture...  teach, baptizing them, then after baptism, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:  

No, I'm accepting it as "explicitly" taught in the scripture.  Who were they teaching after baptism?  They were teaching Christians.  These new Christians had already been taught the gospel, believed it, and had sought baptism.  Yet they were teaching them still what after this?  Doctrine.

Quote
The word of God teaches what it teaches... either you accept the word of God as truth, or you reject it... it is completely up to you Nick...

Yes, it does teach what it teaches.  I accept it as truth.  That's why I still disagree with you.





Offline Livelysword

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2009, 12:17:33 PM »
There were no elders or deacons or teachings about either on the day of Pentecost. Did Petrr not preach the gospel that day?


Lively:  after their baptism on Pentecost, they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine...  If you wish to complain to God in the manor in which He institutes elders and deacons... feel free to take that up with Him...  The apostles were doing the work prior to appointing Deacons over the work... but widows were being neglected in the daily ministration...  So the apostles made choice to appoint deacons to do the work... so the apostles could give themselves to the ministry of the word...  to make sure you are able to have it in hand this day...  feel free to complain to God... I am sure He is already hearing you...  while you are at it... you might also want to complain to Him as well in not bringing in the Gentiles from day one...  as there was no good news for the Gentiles until Cornelius and family were granted repentance unto life...  if only you would study and not complain...  you could actually come to the knowledge of the truth and understand God's purpose in His time of administration...  God hates murmurers and complainers...  hates them...  such is always viewed as rebellion...  always...

I see no one complaining about how God institutes elders and deacons.  If that's what you saw, then you misunderstood and missed the point.

The point is... the teaching on elders and deacons was not part of the "gospel" Peter preached on Pentecost by which the 3000 were saved, was it?  This evolved later.  The teaching on elders and deacons is part of the discipline and organization of the churches, not the "gospel" per se.


Lively:  Salvation to the Gentiles was not part of the gospel on Pentecost either was it....  Now, tell me salvation unto the gentiles is not part of the gospel today...  You have to allow God to implement and bring to light the good news... the full revelation of the gospel...  not everything was fully revealed on Pentecost...  which is why the saying... when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away...  obviously the full revelation had not come as yet when Paul wrote that... but when it did come... the gifts of the Spirit would cease...  Now as there was no deacons on Pentecost... neither was there good news of salvation for the Gentiles...  but we know in Acts 10 that good news comes to light...  even as in Acts 6 deacons were given... and deacons are every bit a part of the good news as is salvation unto the Gentiles...  but everything in the time as God gives it...

Offline DCR

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2009, 12:21:47 PM »
Lively:  Salvation to the Gentiles was not part of the gospel on Pentecost either was it.... 

Yes, it was.  You're incorrect on that point.  All I have to do is cite the great commission.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.


Jesus made that statement before Pentecost.  The Gospel was for all the world, both Jew and Gentile, from the very beginning.

Offline Jimbob

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2009, 12:26:23 PM »
And in Acts 2, "...and to those who are far off..." This is very similar language to what Jesus used in the Gospels when he was speaking of Gentiles being brought to salvation (like the "sheep who are not of this fold" reference).  The OT prophets also had already spoken that the Messiah would bring salvation to the Gentiles as well as the Jews.

Offline Livelysword

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Re: the gospel contains doctrine
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2009, 12:30:52 PM »
Lively:  Salvation to the Gentiles was not part of the gospel on Pentecost either was it.... 

Yes, it was.  You're incorrect on that point.  All I have to do is cite the great commission.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.


Jesus made that statement before Pentecost.  The Gospel was for all the world, both Jew and Gentile, from the very beginning.


Lively:  There were Jews in all nations...


Act 2:5  And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.



Now consider the following which is absolute evidence God had not granted repentance unto life for the Gentiles until Cornelius and family and all gentiles..


Act 11:18  When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Act 10:4  And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Act 10:5  And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
Act 10:6  He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.


Act 10:28  And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.


Act 15:7  And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8  And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9  And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


Act 15:13  And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14  Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15  And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16  After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17  That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18  Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.