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Author Topic: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren  (Read 31947 times)

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Barry H. Manners

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"One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« on: March 07, 2006, 08:53:11 PM »
Lee or marc or anyone,


Can you give me an in depth history of the "one cup" group?


Also, do you know if most of them still believe the reason you have to use one cup in communion is because the cup represents the New Covenant?

I visited with them a lot many, many, years ago.  I got the impression their marriages were arrnaged and have had people say that.  Is it true?

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"One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« on: March 07, 2006, 08:53:11 PM »

Offline marc

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2006, 09:08:08 PM »
Many years ago, I had a supervisor whose father preached for a One Cup congregation.  Her marriage was not arranged.  But then again, her interracial marriage was even approved of by her parents, iirc.

She was a bit of a rebel, so I doubt that she was typical of anything.  Then again, maybe she was.

But no, I don't think they were a cultish group at all.

btw, she was an absolute terror of a boss.  :o

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2006, 09:08:08 PM »

BH

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2006, 09:19:31 PM »
Many years ago, I had a supervisor whose father preached for a One Cup congregation.  Her marriage was not arranged.  But then again, her interracial marriage was even approved of by her parents, iirc.

She was a bit of a rebel, so I doubt that she was typical of anything.  Then again, maybe she was.

But no, I don't think they were a cultish group at all.

btw, she was an absolute terror of a boss.  :o

One thing I have noticed about "one cup" people is that they are very authoritarian.

Offline s1n4m1n

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2006, 09:28:45 PM »
The one cup congregation I've visited in the past seemed to hold to the Cup=New Covenant view (or something similar). At least, it was in their pamphlets I've read.

I have to say their arguments were pretty good and I think there is some merit in the congregation drinking from the same cup.

Ken

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2006, 09:28:45 PM »

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 11:11:22 PM »
Those churches which rejected multiple cups also rejected Sunday schools due to the fact that they typically had women teaching the Bible,and these churches, taking passages such as I Corinthians 14:34 literally, felt that women should not even teach children. Plus they believed that it is wrong to divide the asssembly into classes. Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone, while all for educating children in the scriptures, were against Sunday Schools because they fely they could be mis-used in a sectarian fashion, though by 1847 Campbell had changed his views. Early on, many Stone-Campbell churches adopted Sunday Schools; Isaac Errett's Christian Standard carried weekly Sunday School lessons, as did the Gospel Advocate and Firm Foundation later on. 

The first real dispute over Sunday schools occurred in Texas in 1875-J W Harvey of the Concord Church in Austin County asked David Lipscomb for a "catechism" with which to teach young children and Lipscomb suggested beginning a Sunday School. However Austin McGrary objected to Sunday schools, believing the Bible gave parents the duty of instructing their children. He is quoted as saying "Away with Sunday schools,even if Bro. Lipscomb had memorized the whole New Testament at Sunday School."

Other leaders who opposed Sunday schools and multiple cups were George Averill Trott, and J. T. Showalter. 

In 1925 the anti-Sunday school brethren in Texas drew up their own directory of churches, excluding themselves from the larger, mainstream fellowship. By 1930, these churches found themselves divided over another issue, namely whether multiple or only one cup, should be used in communion.

Originally in Stone-Campbell churches the service was centered on communion, it bering the focal point and chief reason for the assembly to Campbell. But as it became customary for Protestant churches to employ full-time preachers, preaching gradually came to receive prominence alongside communion in Stone-Campbell churches, though like most other "innovations," not without a lot of controversy first.

In an early Stone-Campbell communion service, two ordained elders in a congregation would preside over the table-one gave thanks for the loaf, the other gave thanks for the cup. Then deacons distributed communion to the congregation. Due to the large size of many congregations, two patens and two chalices would be used. A large ciborium, or flagon, was kept on the table to refill the chalices as needed,  with a white linen covering the tableware before and after the observance. In most early houses, along the wall facing the congregation was a slightly raised platform with a pulpit at its center, with the table directly below it on the floor at the head of the center aisle, symbolizing the level community of all believers.

Due to the 19th century Temperance movement wine was replaced by grape juice, the reasoning being that wine was a temptation to alcoholics, that the symbolically potent "fruit of the vine" vanishes when it ferments into alcohol, and that it was shameful to celebrate the Lord's death with "drugged liquors, made of alcohol and poisons." (William Booth, the British Methodist pastor who founded the Salvation Army in the 1860s, was so opposed to alcohol that his Salvation Army Churches stopped serving communion rather than use wine). Nearly all Stone-Campbell churches except a small segment of Churches of Christ which still use wine, use grape juice. Apologists began arguing that the wine used at the Last Supper had the alcohol removed from it miraculously by Christ. Though David Lipscomb argued that Christ and the apostles used real wine at the Last Supper.

The use of multiple cups arose during the nineteenth century with the alarming spread of tuberculosis, which induced churches to replace the use of the single cup with small individual cups disributed in trays to the congregants (in time coupled with trays of pre-fractured bread morsels). This "hygenic" practice, while typical of the majority of Stone-Campbell churches up to the present, was not accepted without some controversy.

C. E. Holt,  minister of the Poplar Street Church of Christ in Florence, Alabama (now Wood Ave.), is credited by some as the first Stone-Campbell minister to write in favor of the use of multiple cups in the Gospel Advocate in 1911, though other denominations were already using multiple cups. There was much opposition to it, as influential leaders like JW McGarvey and David Lipscomb originally protested the unscripturalness of using multiple cups, yet gradually changed their views to support the practice.


Here's a link to a pretty good article on the history of the No Sunday School, One Cup Movement:

http://www.freedominchrist.net/Sermons/Lord's%20Supper/One%20cup_non-Sunday%20School%20Movement.htm


Pax vobiscum.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 12:50:15 AM by Lee Freeman »

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 11:11:22 PM »



BH

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2006, 12:07:11 AM »
In their article on the Lord's Supper in

What were you going to say?

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2006, 12:24:33 AM »
Hit the "post" button by accident before I was done. I went back and finished my post-see above.

Pax.

BH

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2006, 12:40:33 AM »
I believe the Bible teaches that the assembly should be undivided and that Sunday School/Bible classes are an unscriptural form of assembly.

I'll give you an example of what I am talking about---a long time ago there was an elderly couple that were as nice as could be always getting aggravated with me because the church I went to did not have Sunday  School.   They always said that we would be a "one true Church of Christ" like they went to if we gave up opposing Sunday School.

They denied that Sunday School was part of the assembly or a form of church assembly.  I asked them "Do you believe it is a sin to not go to Sunday School?"  and they said "Yes".

I asked them what verse in the Bible proves such and they said "Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together..."   ::)  This just proved to me that class brethren do regard classes as the assembly or part of the assembly despite what they say to the contrary.

Here is another:


Most churches will have on their signs the times for "Worship" or "Assembly" , yet what they have going on is Bible Class more often than not.  They may have an assembly on Sunday morning, but Sunday afternoon or Wednsday night is called "Assembly" or "Worship" yet what do we find!  Bible Classes!  This is another proof that class brethren regard the Bible class as a form of church assembly.

Here is another:

I have asked people when church actually starts and they say it is when they go to Sunday School, and I ask them the same question about missing Sunday School as I asked the old people mentioned earlier, and I get the same reply very often.

I will grant that Bible Class is theoretically alright according to the Bible, but all of the Bible Classes or Sunday Schools I have seen really are just a form of unscriptural assembly and do not actually holf up to what its defenders say it is in theory.

Even if a church does carry out a Sunday School program that does not violate what the Bible says concerning the assembly, I still wouldn't support it.  All of the Sunday School classes I have gone to seem to say the same thing over and over again and are very shallow in depth.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 01:03:03 AM by Barry H. Manners »

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2006, 01:06:25 AM »
IMHO the Hebrews author's warning not to forsake the assembly has nothing to do with Sunday Schools. The church is still assembled, just not all in the same room. Nowhere does it say that the whole church must be assembled together for the whole two hours. Original NT assemblies were small house churches; you probably wouldn't find more than twenty or thirty people assembled in one of these house churches. And they were probably much more informal gatherings than modern services.

The Hebrews author's point I think is that Chriatians need to assemble together because we draw strength and encouragement from each other. That whole passage reads: "And let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good deeds, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching." That says nothing about the whole church being together in the same room throughout the whole assembly. I've been in congregations where the whole church was assembled together in the auditoriium, yet that church was divided. Merely being in the same geographical space doesn't mean a church is automatically united.

I believe the main focus of the assembly is for Christians to be equipped, edified, strengthened and educated. Church as I understand it is the believer's support group. Sunday schools are merely expedients that can be used to teach people, but, like anything else, can be mis-used or under-used.  I don't think the method of educating Christians in the Bible is as important as that it's done. But if some churches don't believe Sunday school is scriptural fine, but to purposely divide from and refuse to fellowship churches that have Sunday schools was wrong.

Same goes with how many cups are used in communion. Worrying about how many cups is used to me is elevating form over function. Anyway, being the germaphobe that I am, I'm not keen on drinking after 300 people anyway-though I do it at my grandmother's Episcopalian church at Christmas Eve Mass. I guess the alcohol kills the germs. Still. . .

Curious that an athiest even cares whether Sunday schools are scriptural or not.

Pax.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 01:12:27 AM by Lee Freeman »

Offline DCR

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2006, 05:08:25 AM »
Most churches will have on their signs the times for "Worship" or "Assembly" , yet what they have going on is Bible Class more often than not.  They may have an assembly on Sunday morning, but Sunday afternoon or Wednsday night is called "Assembly" or "Worship" yet what do we find!  Bible Classes!  This is another proof that class brethren regard the Bible class as a form of church assembly.

Honestly, I find such a meticulous discussion on what constitutes an "assembly" to be a little silly.  To me, "assembling" simply means that folks are getting together... it could be in a big group or a small group.  How is "assembling" for Bible study/classes at separate locations any different than "assembling" for a worship service at separate locations?

And, the ironic thing about this old controversy was when those who opposed divided assembly separated themselves from those who had multiple Bible classes.  They "divided the assembly" (by breaking fellowship) because they didn't believe in "dividing the assembly."  ;)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 05:13:11 AM by DCR »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2006, 05:29:28 AM »
There's lots of "one cup" types throughout Christianity.  It isn't just something peculiar to some of the SOFCOC folks.  I know folks know that, but I'd thought I'd throw it in there.

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 05:36:15 AM »
Amen, DCR.

I've also found the whole "one cup" thing (at least as it was presented to me) silly.  I was told it was "the only authorized practice" because "Jesus used one cup, and commanded the disciples to drink from the one cup."  However, read Luke's account of the Supper:

Quote
After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Offline DCR

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2006, 06:00:05 AM »
Quote
After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 06:10:44 AM by DCR »

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 10:23:39 AM »
There's lots of "one cup" types throughout Christianity.  It isn't just something peculiar to some of the SOFCOC folks.  I know folks know that, but I'd thought I'd throw it in there.

True. But even these churches are often forced by necessity to use more than one chalice if they have several hundred members-the celebrant consecrates them all and deacons or laymen assist in serving the flock. Sticking literally to one cup is only practical in small assemblies. If everyone of Christ's disciples-the 70 mentioned in the gospels and the 500 whom he appeared to post-resurrection had been present at the last supper, likely there'd have been multiple cups.

Pax.

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Re: "One Cup" Church of Christ brethren
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 11:30:45 AM »
There's lots of "one cup" types throughout Christianity.  It isn't just something peculiar to some of the SOFCOC folks.  I know folks know that, but I'd thought I'd throw it in there.

True. But even these churches are often forced by necessity to use more than one chalice if they have several hundred members-the celebrant consecrates them all and deacons or laymen assist in serving the flock. Sticking literally to one cup is only practical in small assemblies. If everyone of Christ's disciples-the 70 mentioned in the gospels and the 500 whom he appeared to post-resurrection had been present at the last supper, likely there'd have been multiple cups.

Pax.

I've been to some standing room only Christmas Eve services at All Souls Episcopal in Biltmore Village on the south side of Asheville.  There were hundreds of folks there and one cup.