another way to be saved?

[Livelysword]

Eight souls weren't saved by water but the ark keeping them out of the water, which was built because of Noah's faith in God and what He said He was going to do.

How can we have a clean conscience if we are not cleansed before we are dunked in the water to be clean?

1 Peter 1:21 "And this is a picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body; it is an appeal to God from a clean conscience."

Lively:  whatever text you are using... it is not good text...


it is an appeal to God from a clean conscience."


I have yet to see this in any of the major texts...


KJV - 1Pe 3:21 -     
The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

© Info: - King James Version 1769 Info

NKJV - 1Pe 3:21 -    
There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

© Info: - New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

NLT - 1Pe 3:21 -    
And this is a picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body; it is an appeal to God from* a clean conscience.
Footnote:
* Or for.

Note the footnote...  they understand right from the word go that the word from* is not correct... so they footnote it with what it really should be... "for"*

© Info: - New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

NIV - 1Pe 3:21 -    
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge* of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Footnote:
* Or response


Note again the footnote...

© Info: - The Holy Bible, New International Version© 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society

ESV - 1Pe 3:21 -    
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

© Info: - English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway Bibles   


NASB - 1Pe 3:21 -    
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

© Info: - New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

RSV - 1Pe 3:21 -    
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

© Info: - Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.

ASV - 1Pe 3:21 -    
which also after a true likeness doth now save you, [even] baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

© Info: - American Standard Version 1901 Info

The ASV is also terrible.. it is not an interrogation...

YNG - 1Pe 3:21 -    
also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,

© Info: - Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

DBY - 1Pe 3:21 -    
which figure also now saves you, [even] baptism, not a putting away of [the] filth of flesh, but [the] demand as before God of a good conscience, by [the] resurrection of Jesus Christ,

© Info: - J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

WEB - 1Pe 3:21 -    
The like figure to which, [even] baptism, doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

© Info: - Noah Webster Version 1833 Info

HNV - 1Pe 3:21 -    
This is a symbol of immersion, which now saves you - not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Yeshua the Messiah,


There is a huge difference between an appeal to God for clean conscience, then from a clean conscience...


The verse is best understood not to confuse water baptism as a bath to clean the flesh, but to clean the conscience... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...  Baptism is where our conscience is cleaned... not some place prior...  water baptism is simply the place God chooses to do his saving work... the water is not what cleanses us... the blood of Christ is what cleanses us from all sins... and baptism is for the forgiveness of sins... Acts 2:38,  Acts 22:16, Col 2:13

[lancelot]

Is there another way, in these days of the new testament of Christ, to be saved other than by hearing the gospel, believing it, repenting of one's sins, confessing Jesus as Lord, and being immersed for the forgiveness of sins?

Lancelot

I was immersed in the name of Jesus.  Baptism for the remission of sins is the Baptism of John.

Baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins is also the baptism of the great commission for the entire world.  Peter commanded men on the day of Pentecost to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Which other ones of hear, believe, repent of one's sins, and confessing Jesus as Lord is not necessary?

And what did you do instead of being baptized for the forgiveness of sins?  What was the last thing before you were supposedly saved? 

Lancelot

[lancelot]

Baptism by being immersed in water is not wrong but it is also not what saves us. It's an act of obedience. It's like saying that Abraham wasn't really a Jew before he was circumsized. The act was not what made him a Jew, but he obeyed to show that he would follow God, as we do to show others that we are accepting to follow God through Christ, and what He has done, not what we can do. Otherwise we are looking more in what we do, than in what He has done. Where is  faith in that? It should be directed to Jesus not us.

Baptism as an act of faith does look to God for salvation rather than self.  It is an appeal to God for a good conscience (I Pet.3:21).  It is when one calls upon God to be saved (Acts 22:16).  Why would the person be calling upon God for salvation if he's looking at what he's done as if that made him good enough in God's eyes?

Lancelot

[lancelot]

Eight souls weren't saved by water but the ark keeping them out of the water, which was built because of Noah's faith in God and what He said He was going to do.

How can we have a clean conscience if we are not cleansed before we are dunked in the water to be clean?

1 Peter 1:21 "And this is a picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body; it is an appeal to God from a clean conscience."

In baptism, one is appealing to God for a good conscience.  He doesn't have one yet because he is still unforgiven.  Heb.10:22 puts these aspects together also.  There, hearts were sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water.

Lancelot

[lancelot]

Yes.

And what is that other way, and where is it found in scripture?

Lancelot

Let's see...from what I understand, children and those with mental issues, don't need to be baptized.

I don't have clear Scripture for it, but I believe the argument goes something like this:

-- proper subjects of faith - and therefore for your entire list of stuff, must be able to objectively believe.
-- those who cannot objectively believe are off the hook for completing the list.

I also have my doubts about the confession step.

It was Paul who said that confession RESULTS IN salvation (Rom.10:9,10).

Lancelot

[Bocephus]

Is there another way, in these days of the new testament of Christ, to be saved other than by hearing the gospel, believing it, repenting of one's sins, confessing Jesus as Lord, and being immersed for the forgiveness of sins?

Lancelot

I was immersed in the name of Jesus.  Baptism for the remission of sins is the Baptism of John.

Baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins is also the baptism of the great commission for the entire world.  Peter commanded men on the day of Pentecost to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Which other ones of hear, believe, repent of one's sins, and confessing Jesus as Lord is not necessary?

And what did you do instead of being baptized for the forgiveness of sins?  What was the last thing before you were supposedly saved? 

Lancelot

Read Acts 2:38 over and over again.  It nowhere says "baptism for the remission of sins." 

I'll give you a major hint at what it does say:

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

[Livelysword]

Is there another way, in these days of the new testament of Christ, to be saved other than by hearing the gospel, believing it, repenting of one's sins, confessing Jesus as Lord, and being immersed for the forgiveness of sins?

Lancelot

I was immersed in the name of Jesus.  Baptism for the remission of sins is the Baptism of John.

Baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins is also the baptism of the great commission for the entire world.  Peter commanded men on the day of Pentecost to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Which other ones of hear, believe, repent of one's sins, and confessing Jesus as Lord is not necessary?

And what did you do instead of being baptized for the forgiveness of sins?  What was the last thing before you were supposedly saved? 

Lancelot

Read Acts 2:38 over and over again.  It nowhere says "baptism for the remission of sins." 

I'll give you a major hint at what it does say:

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Lively:  Right, it states baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of sins... that means the baptism he has authorized is the only baptism which takes away sins...  also that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is the baptism he spoke of in the great commission...


Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Mar 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Luk 24:47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[memmy]

It's the New Living Translation I quoted, and you are grasping at straws.

NLT - 1Pe 3:21 -   
And this is a picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body; it is an appeal to God from* a clean conscience.
Footnote:
* Or for.

Note the footnote...  they understand right from the word go that the word from* is not correct... so they footnote it with what it really should be... "for"*

© Info: - New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

Hahaha, that's funny that you can add to that, and say "they understand right from the word go", if that were the case they wouldn't have written it in that way, would they have? Grasp......

You cannot have a clean or good conscience unless God is already involved, it can't come from within ourself. It states FROM a clean or good conscience, not appealing FOR one.

You probably don't want to "go there" about the Holy Spirit alive and active in our lives after the Baptism of Jesus either.

[lancelot]

Is there another way, in these days of the new testament of Christ, to be saved other than by hearing the gospel, believing it, repenting of one's sins, confessing Jesus as Lord, and being immersed for the forgiveness of sins?

Lancelot

I was immersed in the name of Jesus.  Baptism for the remission of sins is the Baptism of John.

Baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins is also the baptism of the great commission for the entire world.  Peter commanded men on the day of Pentecost to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Which other ones of hear, believe, repent of one's sins, and confessing Jesus as Lord is not necessary?

And what did you do instead of being baptized for the forgiveness of sins?  What was the last thing before you were supposedly saved? 

Lancelot

Read Acts 2:38 over and over again.  It nowhere says "baptism for the remission of sins." 

I'll give you a major hint at what it does say:

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I must confess that that is a new idea.  But the prepositional phrase about the name does not change that baptism is for the remission of sins.  One can be baptized in the name of Jesus (by His authority) for the purpose of having one's sins forgiven.

The same teaching is found in the instruction given by Ananias to Saul.  Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord (Acts 22:16).

Yes, one is to be baptized in order to be forgiven, in order to have his sins washed away by the blood of Jesus.

Lancelot

[Barabbas]

Is there another way, in these days of the new testament of Christ, to be saved other than by hearing the gospel, believing it, repenting of one's sins, confessing Jesus as Lord, and being immersed for the forgiveness of sins?

Lancelot

I was immersed in the name of Jesus.  Baptism for the remission of sins is the Baptism of John.

Baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins is also the baptism of the great commission for the entire world.  Peter commanded men on the day of Pentecost to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Which other ones of hear, believe, repent of one's sins, and confessing Jesus as Lord is not necessary?

And what did you do instead of being baptized for the forgiveness of sins?  What was the last thing before you were supposedly saved? 

Lancelot

Read Acts 2:38 over and over again.  It nowhere says "baptism for the remission of sins." 

I'll give you a major hint at what it does say:

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I must confess that that is a new idea.  But the prepositional phrase about the name does not change that baptism is for the remission of sins.  One can be baptized in the name of Jesus (by His authority) for the purpose of having one's sins forgiven.

The same teaching is found in the instruction given by Ananias to Saul.  Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord (Acts 22:16).

Yes, one is to be baptized in order to be forgiven, in order to have his sins washed away by the blood of Jesus.

Lancelot

Not really a new idea, it goes back to early Christianity.  Baptism is a external sign of inner grace.

Since you seem to be fond of analogies - maybe I can put it this way.

Say you run out of gas.  Does the car stop because the gas gauge reads empty or because the gas tank is empty?  The gauge is only a external sign - the real reason is THERE'S NO GAS!!!

Your argument about the importance of baptism is kind of like pointing to the importance of the gas gauge and saying if your gas gauge reads empty the car's going to stop ... it's not the gauge - it's the gas!  The gauge may be important ... but it's only a sign.

[memmy]

Just as the sacrifices in Moses day, Jesus death, took our sins away, It's a free gift, and when we believe that He is the One who took it all for us, our gift of that salvation is free. We humans always seem to want to put a price on that, so we can have a say in it all.

[lancelot]

Just as the sacrifices in Moses day, Jesus death, took our sins away, It's a free gift, and when we believe that He is the One who took it all for us, our gift of that salvation is free. We humans always seem to want to put a price on that, so we can have a say in it all.

Is doing what God has commanded in order to be saved putting a price on salvation?  Which one of these is not biblical, not required by God? - hearing, believing, repenting of one's sins, confessing Jesus as Lord, being immersed for the forgiveness of sins

Lancelot

[Livelysword]

It's the New Living Translation I quoted, and you are grasping at straws.

NLT - 1Pe 3:21 -   
And this is a picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body; it is an appeal to God from* a clean conscience.
Footnote:
* Or for.

Note the footnote...  they understand right from the word go that the word from* is not correct... so they footnote it with what it really should be... "for"*

© Info: - New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

Hahaha, that's funny that you can add to that, and say "they understand right from the word go", if that were the case they wouldn't have written it in that way, would they have? Grasp......

You cannot have a clean or good conscience unless God is already involved, it can't come from within ourself. It states FROM a clean or good conscience, not appealing FOR one.

You probably don't want to "go there" about the Holy Spirit alive and active in our lives after the Baptism of Jesus either.

Lively:  what you probably need to understand about modern bibles or translations is... in order to be copyright their translation can not be identical to another which is copyright...  it is clear when they wrote the word they used... that they immediately put a foot note in... why?  Because they can say they are referring you to the footnote for clarity of what they meant... or what is the common consensus...  but the thing is... at some point in revision down the line... the footnote will disappear and we will be left with what they had put there... something which makes no sense...  an appeal to God from a clean conscience... why are we appealing to God if our conscience is already clean?  The appeal to God is for a clean conscience...

[HRoberson]

Yes.

And what is that other way, and where is it found in scripture?

Lancelot

Let's see...from what I understand, children and those with mental issues, don't need to be baptized.

I don't have clear Scripture for it, but I believe the argument goes something like this:

-- proper subjects of faith - and therefore for your entire list of stuff, must be able to objectively believe.
-- those who cannot objectively believe are off the hook for completing the list.

I also have my doubts about the confession step.

It was Paul who said that confession RESULTS IN salvation (Rom.10:9,10).

Lancelot

Yeah, I know what Paul said. I'm just not sure it's part of a 5-step process.

[Livelysword]

Yes.

And what is that other way, and where is it found in scripture?

Lancelot

Let's see...from what I understand, children and those with mental issues, don't need to be baptized.

I don't have clear Scripture for it, but I believe the argument goes something like this:

-- proper subjects of faith - and therefore for your entire list of stuff, must be able to objectively believe.
-- those who cannot objectively believe are off the hook for completing the list.

I also have my doubts about the confession step.

It was Paul who said that confession RESULTS IN salvation (Rom.10:9,10).

Lancelot

Yeah, I know what Paul said. I'm just not sure it's part of a 5-step process.

Lively:  I can understand skepticism of a 5 step process... but if we look at what the following teaches with the verses given...  how does one argue that those things are not part of the process of salvation??  Of coarse I also like to post what happens after one becomes saved... that of remaining faithful to receive that crown of life... because I do not want anyone to think its a cake walk from baptism on and that they do not need to be faithful...  feel free to study these out and see if you also come to understand these things are absolutely necessary to have salvation...


To HEAR the gospel... So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:17 (KJV), Rom 1:16 (KJV)

To have FAITH ... which only comes by hearing the Word of God and without which it is impossible to please God
Rom 10:17 (KJV), Rom 1:16 (KJV), Eph 2:8-10 (KJV), Heb 11:6 (KJV)

To REPENT ... of (turn from) your sins
Luke 13:3-5 (KJV), Acts 2:38 (KJV), Acts 3:19 (KJV), 2 Cor 7:10 (KJV)

To CONFESS ... with your mouth that Jesus Christ is the Son of God
Rom 10:9-10 (KJV), Mat 10:32 (KJV), Luke 12:8 (KJV), Acts 8:37 (KJV)

To be BAPTIZED ... (immersed, in water, not sprinkled) into Jesus Christ to have your sins forgiven (washed away)by the blood of Christ by faith in him.
Mat 28:19-20 (KJV), Mark 16:16 (KJV), John 3:3-5 (KJV), Acts 2:38 (KJV), Acts 8:35-39 (KJV), Acts 10:47-48 (KJV), Acts 22:16 (KJV), Rom 6:3-17 (KJV), 1 Cor 12:13 (KJV), 1 Cor 15:29 (KJV), Gal 3:27 (KJV), Eph 4:5 (KJV), Eph 5:26 (KJV), Col 2:11-13 (KJV), 1 Pet 3:20-21 (KJV)

To CONTINUE in faith ... to live a faithful life in Christ and not allow yourself to be moved away from the hope of the Gospel
Acts 14:22 (KJV), Col 1:23 (KJV), Rev 3:5 (KJV)