Anyone observing "Great Communion"?

[HRoberson]

Lively:  Give the NT verse in which it was authorized by any of the prophets

Do you mean you want a verse authorizing the Lords Supper on a Lord's Day afternoon?

Lively:  the subject is the great communion is it not?  Give the verse for the great communion in which people of all different faiths meet to have communion with each other...

All different faiths?  I believe those who participated in the event discussed in this thread are all of the Christian faith. 

Christians came together to partake of communion together on October 4th, which was the first day of the week.

What's the problem with that, exactly?

Lively:  well, I would say many claim the Christian faith... but not all are adhering to it...  it would also be my contention that there are many here who have yet obeyed the gospel... and many others who offer false worship or will worship to God regularly...  Hardly the faith which Christ and Paul taught...

How about a list?

Lively:  Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, church of God, church of Christ, Christian church, Disciples of Christ, Baptist, Jehovah Witnesses, Later day saints, Calvinists just to name a few...  I am sure this list could grow...  As far as I am concerned, I only know one of this group which teaches the truth as taught in the bible and adheres to it...

The question was to provide a list of those who have not obeyed the Gospel, or perhaps those that offer false or will worship, not a list of denominations.
Would you like to try again?

Lively:  the denominations which I have listed is a list of those who have not obeyed the gospel...  if they are following the teachings of those denominations, they are not obeying the faith of Jesus Christ... they are not in Christ... they do not have Christ...

In your parlance,  what would these folks have to do to "obey the Gospel" as you use the term in this post?

[Livelysword]

Can't get much more exclusive than that.  Kind of reminds me of when Ira Rice Jr. disfellowshipped almost everyone he came into contact with and wasn't real sure about his associate editor of contentious for the faith. 

Ofcourse from what I have seen Lively would not fellowship Ira either. 

Lively:  I only fellowship those whom obey the gospel... 

[Johnb]

Could you give us a definition of "obeying the gospel" ?   What in you mind does that mean?   Is it simply faith or is it faith plus baptism for the remission od sins.  Or perhaps does it extend to how they do church and conform to your views of what shoild go on in an assembly?

[Livelysword]

Could you give us a definition of "obeying the gospel" ?   What in you mind does that mean?   Is it simply faith or is it faith plus baptism for the remission od sins.  Or perhaps does it extend to how they do church and conform to your views of what shoild go on in an assembly?

Lively:  The definition is clearly read in Romans chapter 6...  it is obeying from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered unto us... to set us free from our sins...  Baptism for the remission of sins is all about faith... God expects you to understand what he says about baptism and what its purpose is, and to have faith in him to take away your sins... in baptism faith is what is required...  while you passively submit to another to immerse you.  The only work God requires of those being baptized is to have faith in him and what he teaches baptism is for...  really, it is no different then the Israelites having faith  in God to take down the walls of Jericho.   They did not come down by the marching of the Israelites... but by faith in God...  God said, do this, this, and this, and believe they will fall down by my doing...  I will bring the walls down... that is what God told them... to have faith.  when God tells us to do this, this, and this, and have faith that he will take away our sins...  you need to have faith that he will when you have done what he has asked... to believe the gospel, to repent of your sins, to confess Jesus as the Christ, the son of God... and be baptized.  Your being baptized is not a work which you did which makes you free from sins... its your faith in God that he takes away your sins when you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine delivered unto you...  How was Naaman cleansed?  Go dip 7 times in Jordan and you will come back clean...  it is having faith in God to cleanse him from his Leprosy when he submits to the will of the Lord...   if dipping seven times in Jordan  healed one of leprosy, then all the Lepers would have been down to Jordan dipping seven times...

[wave runner]

Unfortunately, I have seen attitudes like Livelysword all to often in Churches of Christ.  His interpretation of scripture is all about getting things "right."  If they are not right, then they are not sound.  What this all boils down to is "everyone must conform to my interpretation of scripture to be sound."  But when you start asking questions, things fall apart in a hurry.

I have seen this time after time in people from the "Contending for the Faith" crowd.  This group is now so divided because they tend to see each little issue as matters of doctrine that, as has been stated before, they end of disfellowshipping each other and no longer have "fellowship."  Look what is happening now between these folk with regard to Dave Miller, Elder Reaffirmation, Women Interpreters and on and on and on.  The sad truth is that they will continue to divide and disfellowship each other to the point that only one man will be left standing in their own congregations.

[Mere Nick]

I'm all for getting things "right".  All folks ought to be wanting to get things "right".

However, there does appear to be those in the SOFCOC, and I wouldn't doubt there being such folks meeting behind other signs, who go beyond to where they are functioning under the idea that "if I do church right, then I'm saved, and if I don't do church right, then I'm not saved".

Trying to learn the right things to believe and do isn't legalism.  It's obedience.  However, when one goes beyond, as described above, then it becomes legalism, which is a different gospel.

wave runner wrote

I have seen this time after time in people from the "Contending for the Faith" crowd.  This group is now so divided because they tend to see each little issue as matters of doctrine that, as has been stated before, they end of disfellowshipping each other and no longer have "fellowship."  Look what is happening now between these folk with regard to Dave Miller, Elder Reaffirmation, Women Interpreters and on and on and on.  The sad truth is that they will continue to divide and disfellowship each other to the point that only one man will be left standing in their own congregations.

Yes.  We have at least one in our congregation who are of the "Contentious for The Faith" crowd.  They had been with another congregation of such folks for a while, but they had a big blowup about something and now they are back.

With me, it all goes back to the Ethiopian eunuch as an example.  What is worth dividing over is what he confessed at his baptism.  Everything else is what we study together even if it takes a life time.  To demand of each other more than was demanded of him in order to become a brother is to preach another gospel.

[Livelysword]

Unfortunately, I have seen attitudes like Livelysword all to often in Churches of Christ.  His interpretation of scripture is all about getting things "right."  If they are not right, then they are not sound.  What this all boils down to is "everyone must conform to my interpretation of scripture to be sound."  But when you start asking questions, things fall apart in a hurry.

I have seen this time after time in people from the "Contending for the Faith" crowd.  This group is now so divided because they tend to see each little issue as matters of doctrine that, as has been stated before, they end of disfellowshipping each other and no longer have "fellowship."  Look what is happening now between these folk with regard to Dave Miller, Elder Reaffirmation, Women Interpreters and on and on and on.  The sad truth is that they will continue to divide and disfellowship each other to the point that only one man will be left standing in their own congregations.

Lively:  The only falling apart I see on this board comes from others...  if there is something in particular you think I am not correct about... then speak up...  I know its becoming a lost art... that there be no divisions among us, but that we all speak the same thing... that we be perfectly joined together in the same mind and same judgment... let alone contending for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints...  somehow I get the impression from your post that we are all better off not contending for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints... that we do not risk any division among us by just keeping our mouths shut, that way we never can speak something different from one another, whether we believe the right thing or not.  Some how or other I get the feeling from your post, that studying to know the truth, working through all the different things others teach on any given subject is something we should not do, because it will only lead to someone understanding something different then another.  Forget proving all things and holding fast that which is good...  Unfortunately, I am not buying it...  I have studied long and hard... heard just about every interpretation for any subject you can think of... gave them great consideration, have discussed many of them with many brethren on line...  I fully believe the bible when it says we can study and know the truth.  So, if there is some subject you have a doubt on whether I understand it correctly, feel free to speak up...  otherwise, why post to cause division and speak against someone who is teaching the truth.  I find sowing discord among brethren as something which should never be done.  Again, if there is something I have taught which you do not believe is correct, Post it and explain why what I have posted is not correct, post scripture reference for why it is not correct.


Pro 6:16  These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17  A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18  An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19  A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


Do you really believe you have fellowship one with another when you never speak to one another concerning faith in Jesus Christ for fear you are not of the same mind and same judgment in the Lord?  What exactly do you base fellowship upon?

[Snargles]

Lively, I think part of the problem is that you think you have all the truth and that those in "denominations" have none of the truth. You also write as though you feel that unless we are 100% correct in our understanding of scripture we will be lost. People in the bible, both OT and NT, are full of flaws. Moses struck the rock, Abraham lied about his relationship with Sarah, David was an adulterer, Peter wouldn't associate with Gentiles if Jews were present, the Corinthian church was a mess, Paul warned about certain people to avoid, Paul sent Titus to congregations that wouldn't appoint elders on their own. Despite their flaws these people were the children of God.

Lutherans, Baptists, Methodist and Presbyterians all think they are obeying the gospel and doing what scripture tells them to do. Sure they have errors but so did the people I listed above. You aren't perfect; you are human so you have some defects, too. There may be a person out there who follows the word even closer than you do and even though he meets in a house with a group of believers who call themselves "the church that meets at Joe's house" you should be willing to accept him as a Christian brother. 

Lighten up and be willing to admit that we are working our way along the path to understanding the scripture but some of us are farther along than others.

[Livelysword]

Lively, I think part of the problem is that you think you have all the truth and that those in "denominations" have none of the truth. You also write as though you feel that unless we are 100% correct in our understanding of scripture we will be lost. People in the bible, both OT and NT, are full of flaws. Moses struck the rock, Abraham lied about his relationship with Sarah, David was an adulterer, Peter wouldn't associate with Gentiles if Jews were present, the Corinthian church was a mess, Paul warned about certain people to avoid, Paul sent Titus to congregations that wouldn't appoint elders on their own. Despite their flaws these people were the children of God.

Lutherans, Baptists, Methodist and Presbyterians all think they are obeying the gospel and doing what scripture tells them to do. Sure they have errors but so did the people I listed above. You aren't perfect; you are human so you have some defects, too. There may be a person out there who follows the word even closer than you do and even though he meets in a house with a group of believers who call themselves "the church that meets at Joe's house" you should be willing to accept him as a Christian brother. 

Lighten up and be willing to admit that we are working our way along the path to understanding the scripture but some of us are farther along than others.

Lively:  I accept as brethren those who obey the gospel, who have washed themselves in the blood of the lamb and who worship God as God commands them...  any who are not worshiping God as described in the bible  may be taught, but refusal to comply to that which is plainly taught in the gospel will be marked and avoided.  Members of the body of Christ do go out and teach all the world the truth of the gospel so they may recover themselves from the snare of the devil and come to obedience to the gospel... even as is done here on this web site, that all who come and see it and view this site may hear the truth and come to compliance with what scripture teaches, and the Lord commands.  members of the church of Christ as the body of Christ are compassionate to those who are lost...  but we do not fellowship with them...  scripture plainly teaches to mark and avoid the disobedient, and to come out of and have no fellowship with those of the world.   Am I perfect. no, I am not, but I do not deny the truth even if I am not perfect in all my ways... for those things I do repent and confess such sins.  God is faithful for those who do so.  The reason for Paul writing letters to the churches is to clear up their errors... not so they can continue to live in them... that they may worship God as God commands and do so according to his will, not their own.  Jesus does condemn those who do not repent in the Revelation letter... gives them time to repent and make changes to come into compliance, those who refuse to come to compliance he severs and leaves them to their own destruction.  Nobody on this earth is not held to that standard.  He asks us to be perfect even as he is perfect, but is merciful to those who accept the truth and repent and come to compliance.  We warn those who are not compliant to the truth.  Show them their errors...  we beseech thee in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled...

[zoonance]

But Paul never called them anything less than brother and never disfellowshipped them.  He did demand "disfellowship" from those who demanded a return to the Law, immorality and denying the resurrection.  I would need scriptural authority to add to the list of authorized reasons to disfellowship and to refuse to call them brothers in Christ.

[Snargles]

Lively, some that you call disobedient have just not been taught completely. If a person is brought up in a Presbyterian home and has attended a Presbyterian church all his life he could be compared to Apollos in Acts 18. Appollos was faithful to Christ even though he only knew the baptism of John. He is not refered to as a lost soul but as a Christian who needed further instruction. So it is with faithful God-fearing Methodists, Baptists and Presbies. You don't know what you don't know. Is a Baptist who has been immersed any worse than Appollos before he was baptized into Jesus?

[HRoberson]

Lively, I think part of the problem is that you think you have all the truth and that those in "denominations" have none of the truth. You also write as though you feel that unless we are 100% correct in our understanding of scripture we will be lost. People in the bible, both OT and NT, are full of flaws. Moses struck the rock, Abraham lied about his relationship with Sarah, David was an adulterer, Peter wouldn't associate with Gentiles if Jews were present, the Corinthian church was a mess, Paul warned about certain people to avoid, Paul sent Titus to congregations that wouldn't appoint elders on their own. Despite their flaws these people were the children of God.

Lutherans, Baptists, Methodist and Presbyterians all think they are obeying the gospel and doing what scripture tells them to do. Sure they have errors but so did the people I listed above. You aren't perfect; you are human so you have some defects, too. There may be a person out there who follows the word even closer than you do and even though he meets in a house with a group of believers who call themselves "the church that meets at Joe's house" you should be willing to accept him as a Christian brother. 

Lighten up and be willing to admit that we are working our way along the path to understanding the scripture but some of us are farther along than others.

Lively:  I accept as brethren those who obey the gospel, who have washed themselves in the blood of the lamb and who worship God as God commands them...  any who are not worshiping God as described in the bible  may be taught, but refusal to comply to that which is plainly taught in the gospel will be marked and avoided.  Members of the body of Christ do go out and teach all the world the truth of the gospel so they may recover themselves from the snare of the devil and come to obedience to the gospel... even as is done here on this web site, that all who come and see it and view this site may hear the truth and come to compliance with what scripture teaches, and the Lord commands.  members of the church of Christ as the body of Christ are compassionate to those who are lost...  but we do not fellowship with them...  scripture plainly teaches to mark and avoid the disobedient, and to come out of and have no fellowship with those of the world.   Am I perfect. no, I am not, but I do not deny the truth even if I am not perfect in all my ways... for those things I do repent and confess such sins.  God is faithful for those who do so.  The reason for Paul writing letters to the churches is to clear up their errors... not so they can continue to live in them... that they may worship God as God commands and do so according to his will, not their own.  Jesus does condemn those who do not repent in the Revelation letter... gives them time to repent and make changes to come into compliance, those who refuse to come to compliance he severs and leaves them to their own destruction.  Nobody on this earth is not held to that standard.  He asks us to be perfect even as he is perfect, but is merciful to those who accept the truth and repent and come to compliance.  We warn those who are not compliant to the truth.  Show them their errors...  we beseech thee in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled...

Yes, I thought you weren't telling us the whole truth when you said you accept everyone that has obeyed the Gospel. Now we know that you also expect them to get church right before you will fellowship them.

[zoonance]

The greatest enemy to lively (et al) is someone who professes the Christ as Lord.  But then, that is common amongst all of us believers.  We point and accuse fellow believers with a passion if they understand theology differently than we do.  We don't spend that much energy on nonbelievers.

[Snargles]

We point and accuse fellow believers with a passion if they understand theology differently than we do.  We don't spend that much energy on nonbelievers.

Methodists and Presbyterians aren't the enemy. Muslims and the new crop of atheists are the enemy.

[Livelysword]

But Paul never called them anything less than brother and never disfellowshipped them.  He did demand "disfellowship" from those who demanded a return to the Law, immorality and denying the resurrection.  I would need scriptural authority to add to the list of authorized reasons to disfellowship and to refuse to call them brothers in Christ.

Lively:  Paul did instruct them, and told them by letter, that if any man not obey our word by this epistle, note that man and have no company with him... that is disfellowship, whether you are of a mind to accept it or not.  Paul also stated in the Roman letter, that if people do not hold to sound doctrine, to not have any fellowship with them...  Paul sets them straight when they had not understood the correct way... when he tells them the correct way,  he also tells them if they do not obey, to not fellowship...  and where this meets with those who post here, they also have been told and shown by letter and epistle of the NT...  but still are not making any change to come to compliance to scripture.  So how can there be fellowship with such?   When the church had splits in years past, most of us understand them and what happened, and what the splits were about...  when people refuse to hold to the truth and go apostate, all we can do is teach them and let them know they need to come back to the truth of the gospel and repent and do the works and worship as the gospel states to do it.  As yet, those who have left have not done so...  any of a mind to come out of them, should do so and join back with the faithful in Christ.  These are simply biblical and historical facts...


2Th 3:14  And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15  Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.


Rom 16:17  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Rom 16:19  For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.


2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


Such teaching as this below should be a warning for anyone who would follow someone away from the truth...  but then, men have always wanted their own ways... and will do anything to get it...


Act 20:29  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31  Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.