Baptism form of doctrine...

[zoonance]

God would have had to keep the real church real without the benefit of the bible since only a few copies were even available and it was only available in selective hands.  That reality is extremely ironic given the only way to "prove" the true church today is with those very writings.

Lively:  He kept it real without the written word during the first century when they wrote the written word.  Then the gifts were to cease.  That is simply biblical fact.

What about the second through the 19th century?

Lively:  From the first century on, since the days of the apostles and prophets, we have the written word...  that is what they had...  that is what those in the second century used, such as Polycarp...  the written word.


Eph 3:2  If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3  How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4  Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5  Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


We were also told by Jude...


Jud 1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


Nothing has been delivered since Revelation... the books of the NT is what we are to earnestly contend for.  For in it is the faith which was once delivered unto the Saints.

Wow!  I had no idea!  That clears it right up.

[Scoobydoo]

Johnb, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

Spending the day doing job interviews for our organization.  Been profitable so far but the day is very young.  Well, it is susposed to be 70 plus here today--so we have a great start on it.

Look--I just don't have a heartburn with this church thing at all.  When folks were doing church they were not planning to have it all scooped up and cross examined hundreds of years later.

Have a 14 year old girl meeting her adoptive parents for the first time this Friday--that will be interesting.  Then i start on our two week vacation staying home and there are no beaches in West Texas.

Enjoy your time off..

Scoobydoo

[Scoobydoo]

DCR, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

That's exactly what the Catholic and Orthodox Churches would say... and, they would claim to be that church preserved by "tradition" to this day.

My response-- And, the nice thing about that is their error is much easier to trace. Give you an example out of the MDR arguement. This MDR issue did not begin as such--it began as "who has the control, who has the authority over the people"
The state or the church. 

The state did but by the council of Trent the Roman Catholic church has at that point won that decision with the additonal rules about baptism and marriage. This takes place around 599-603ad. The council of Trent is in the mid 1500's and lasted 29 years I believe.

However, with  the Lord's church--never being in the majority--is going to much tougher for you guys to work through. It isn't for me because of my own exposure to some of these things.

Now, I know the story of the bank robber and met him about six months before He died of cancer.

He robbed banks for several years and then retired.  A knock on the door a few years later and there stood the FBI and He went to prison. While in Prison He and another prisoner saw all the denominations and determined to cut through the mess started studying by themselves.

Now, it did not end with baptism..They continued to study and a couple of years later--One of the churches sent a group into the prison--and finally the prisoners told the church group that there were a couple of guys who believed as they did.

So they got together but the bank robber and his friend were skeptical to say the least. At this point they thought they were the only ones in the denominational world.

Well, they made up some 34 questions outside of baptism that they asked the church of Christ preacher to fill out.  After doing so--they were amazed and joined the group.

He got out of prison and preached for a church in Oklahoma City--It was the last church of Christ going south out of town toward Lawton, Oklahoma.

I was invited to meet him--and after  a t wo hour inquisition answering all the questions--guess what--I was accepted.

And by the way, each question i was asked had a couple of dangling participles there that I had to explain in some detail as to why I taught some things--using the texts to illustrate. Evidently I passed because we got along ok.

I recognize that not everyone has this type and kind of experience since we are not geared to thinking in those terms.

However, it seems to me that the bankrobber in the midst of error can find  and keep the truth and insist on it--anytime anyone who reads the scripture can essentially do the same thing.

One does not need to establish "church of Christ" from beginning to present in order to believe that God has this going on all the time and in places we would not normally expect.

While I cannot use the best communication and search devices we have to assure myself of this--I do so by faith and trust that God can and is so doing and will continue to do so.

Scoobydoo