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Author Topic: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?  (Read 1730 times)

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blituri

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Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« on: November 13, 2009, 03:48:28 PM »
Eusebio Tanicala in the Philippines has spend a lot of time claiming that God commanded and approved the use of instrumental music in worship under the Tabernacle and the Temple under the Law.  This group is closely associated with LU.

Because of the change of the law, and the new law does not command instruments, we must not use instruments.

Eusebio Tanicala: 13 Steps to a Better Understanding Why the Use of Mechanical Instruments of Music in Christian Worship Lacks New Testament Authority In Bible Study Lessons, Features on January 29, 2009 at 5:35 am

http://www.piney.com/Tanicala.13Steps.Instruments.html

Eusebio lists several passages to prove that God commanded musical instruments in the Old Testament. If He did He also commanded them to worship just like the Babylonians.

http://www.piney.com/Tanicala.Commands.Instruments.html

God abandoned Israel to worship the starry host because of musical idolatry at Mount Sina.

Amos defines the WORSHIP PRACTICES which are consistent with a totally immoral tribe of parasites.

However, Amos warns that they should worship the Creator of the Starry host instead.

http://www.piney.com/Eusebio.Tanicala.Amos.5.html

This is the majority view of "conservative" preachers. Therefore, the only reason NOT to allow instruments to be IMPOSED is based on "Worship Lacks New Testament Authority."

The instrumentalists then demand the LAW OF SILENCE that God must clearly state "I outlaw the use of musical instruments in my school of the Bible."

The conservatives get all wound up with the "authority issue" and neither side knows and cares that it is NOT true that GOD COMMANDED INSTRUMENTAL WORSHIP IN HIS OLD PATTERNISM FOR WORSHIP.

If one had ever read Acts 7 and Stephen risking his life for saying that "God turned them over to worship the starry host" you would THINK that someone would be curious enough to do a thesis on that single expression.

Both sides are TROUBLERS IN ZION because there is no hint that you need to know the story line of the Old Testament or the context from which you get your dogmatic assertions.

I have added some SOUND EFFECTS for what was called noise and never music.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 08:25:24 PM by blituri »

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Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« on: November 13, 2009, 03:48:28 PM »

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2009, 09:16:08 AM »
Instrumental music is ok.  Besides MP3 players or CD's just play a digital file that is 1's and 0's.  Nothing mechanical about mp3's.  Definitely authorized.

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2009, 09:16:08 AM »

Offline zoonance

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2009, 09:29:21 AM »
Eusebio Tanicala in the Philippines has spend a lot of time claiming that God commanded and approved the use of instrumental music in worship under the Tabernacle and the Temple under the Law.  This group is closely associated with LU.

Because of the change of the law, and the new law does not command instruments, we must not use instruments.

Eusebio Tanicala: 13 Steps to a Better Understanding Why the Use of Mechanical Instruments of Music in Christian Worship Lacks New Testament Authority In Bible Study Lessons, Features on January 29, 2009 at 5:35 am

http://www.piney.com/Tanicala.13Steps.Instruments.html

This is the majority view of "conservative" preachers. Therefore, the only reason NOT to allow instruments to be IMPOSED is based on "Worship Lacks New Testament Authority."

The instrumentalists then demand the LAW OF SILENCE that God must clearly state "I outlaw the use of musical instruments in my school of the Bible."

The conservatives get all wound up with the "authority issue" and neither side knows and cares that it is NOT true that GOD COMMANDED INSTRUMENTAL WORSHIP IN HIS OLD PATTERNISM FOR WORSHIP.

If one had ever read Acts 7 and Stephen risking his life for saying that "God turned them over to worship the starry host" you would THINK that someone would be curious enough to do a thesis on that single expression.

Both sides are TROUBLERS IN ZION because there is no hint that you need to know the story line of the Old Testament or the context from which you get your dogmatic assertions.

I have added some SOUND EFFECTS for what was called noise and never music.




This is perhaps the best treatise ever presented in defense of IM in worship ever presented.  The sound effects however were not authorized, but if you turn the volume down, you can squeek by that abomination.

blituri

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 01:44:22 PM »
I have Added Part Two of Eusebio Tanicala in the Philippines promoting the LU view of music.  I will add the usual Amos twist shortly.

http://www.piney.com/Tanicala.Commands.Instruments.html

Since it was because of Musical Idolatry at Mount Sinai that God turned especially the father-cursed Levi tribe over to worship the Starry Host. And Amos wrote

Amos 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

Amos 5:27 Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.


And even at the highest level of "scholarship" teach that they just had a bad attitude EVEN when the father and son used the same temple prostitute.

And Stephen speaking for the PROPHET'S thread through Christ denied that God commanded a HOUSE.  And then affirms the idolatry at Mount Sinai and repeated first in Israel and then in Judah:

Acts 7:42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.


That captivity and death sentence began to be carried out when the elders fired God and demanded a king like the nations: God knew that they wanted to worship LIKE THE NATIONS and that is the PATTERNISM being used to first neutralize the Old Testament on the way to neutralizing the New Testament.

    Under "Star Worship" the Jewish Encyclopedia states:

    "Star Worship" is perhaps the oldest form of idolatry practiced by the ancients. The observation of the stars in the East very early led the people to regard the planets and the fixed stars as gods. The religion of the ancient Egyptians is known to have consisted preeminently of Sun-worship. Moses sternly warned the Israelites against worshipping the Sun, Moon, stars, and all the hosts of heaven (Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:3). The Israelites fell into this kind of idolatry and as early as the time of Amos they had the images of Siccuth and Chium, 'the stars of their god' (Amos 5:26); the latter name is generally supposed to denote the planet Saturn [#666]. That the Kingdom of Israel fell earlier than that of Judah is stated (II Kings 17:16) to have been due, among other causes, to its worshipping the host of heaven.

    But the Kingdom of Judah in its later period seems to have outdone the Northern Kingdom [Israel] in star-worship." Of Manasseh it is related that he built altars to all the hosts of heaven in the two courts of the house of YHWY, and it seems it was the practice of even Kings before him to appoint priests who offered sacrifices to the Sun, the Moon, the planets, and all the hosts of heaven. Altars for star-worship were built on the roofs of the houses, and horses and chariots were dedicated to the worship of the Sun. (II Kings 21:5; 23:4-5, 11-12) Star-worship continued in Judah until the 18th year of Josiah's reign (621 B.C.) when the King took measures to abolish all kinds of idolatry. But although star-worship was then abolished as a public cult, it was practiced privately by individuals who worshipped the heavenly bodies, and poured out libations to them on the roofs of their houses (Zephaniah 1:5; Jeremiah 8:2; 19:13)  Jeremiah, who prophesied in the sixth year of the captivity of Jehoiachin (591 B.C.) describes the worship of the Sun as practiced in the court of the Temple (Ezekiel 8:16) and that even after the destruction of the Temple the women insisted on continuing to worship the Queen of Heaven.
    "The ancient Hebrews, being nomads like the Arabs, favored the Moon, while the Babylonians, who were an agricultural nation, preferred the Sun. But, as appears from Ezekiel 20:7-8 the Moon-worship of the Israelites, even while they were still in Egypt was combined with Sun-worship."


Isn't that the most amazingly amazing thing you ever heard of: and "conservatives" will hurt you real bad if you tell them that God did NOT command Instrumental Music as worship as Hid olden patternism.

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 01:44:22 PM »

Offline soterion

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 02:08:13 PM »
Instruments were commanded in the Law of Moses and by the Lord through the prophets:

Numbers 10:1-10.  Among the purposes of the silver trumpets was for them to be sounded over the whole burnt offerings and the peace offerings (worship offerings).

2 Chronicles 29:25-28.  Notice that the trumpets and other instruments sounded only during the burnt and peace offerings, not during the sin offerings (vv.20-24).

The instruments were commanded by God for use during their times of celebration and worship.

And no, I am not saying anything about the use of instruments today.  I am addressing only the apparent contention that God never commanded them through Moses (or the prophets).

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 02:08:13 PM »



blituri

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2009, 04:17:23 PM »
You need to read 2 Chronicles 29 more carefully: the separation is ABSOLUTE between the singing and instrumentsof David and the TRUMPETS commanded by Moses (only).

When the goats were included in the BURNT OFFERINGS to try to reconcile with Israel you will see the clear separation between who commanded what.

In many other parallels it is DAVID who commanded the instruments played by the Levites who were under the KING AND COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY.  The sacrificial system was part of the worship of the starry host and Christ in the prophets deny that God commanded burnt offerings or sacrifices when they were rescued by grace.

I don't think you will find any pre-theology scholar who did not understand the FATAL FALL of Israel: the final captivity and death sentence began to be carried out when "God gave them kings in His anger" warning them that the kings would rob them blind and destroy them.  Nor will you find that all of the sins recorded by Amos as marks of worshiping the starry host was just A BAD MENTAL ATTITUDE.

At the same time the synagogue was ordained in the wilderness EXCLUSIVE of the vocal or instrumental rejoicing from which they were quarantined.  The spiritual thread were always "outside the camp" when the NOISE began as sending "sure signals."  All of these mechanical devices are said to make NOISE and never music: that is because the very root of music was "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter."  That included the enemy in making war and you don't STARTLE a lamb or Jesus into being "dumb before the slaughter" by making music.

It was after they fell into musical idolatry that God ABANDONED the tribe of Levi to make sacrifices.  Jacob warned people NOT to attend their assemblies.  It is more than"startling" that preachers will deliberately sow discord to confiscate a building and flock by IMITATING Levi.

The trumpets of God AND the instruments of David were to signal the beginning and ending of the BURNING process.  This is never a worship service.

Offline lancelot

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 09:29:22 AM »

Quote
You need to read 2 Chronicles 29 more carefully: the separation is ABSOLUTE between the singing and instrumentsof David and the TRUMPETS commanded by Moses (only).

2 Chronicles 29:25 He then stationed the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with harps and with lyres, according to the command of David and of Gad the king's seer, and of Nathan the prophet; for the command was from the LORD through His prophets.

Where is the separation you claim?

Further, we can see in Ps.150 and Ps.81, for example, that God commanded worship with instruments under the law of Moses.  But, there has been a change in law and there is no authority for them today.

Lancelot

blituri

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 12:11:45 PM »
Now, you have them STANDING or HOLDING the instruments not INSIDE of any holy place.  That is because the Levites were under the king and the commanders of the army. Hezekiah was a KING and not a worship leader.

AFTERWARD, Hezekiah took the initiative to offer the goats as a "unity" effort for Israel which had fallen back under the worship of the starry host at Mount Sinai.

Then only during the BURNING of the Goats the Levites made a great NOISE which is never called music.

However, Christ speaks for the SPIRITUAL people and says that God had not COMMANDED burnt offerings when He saved them by grace at the Red Sea.  Only AFTER musical idolatry God imposed The Law of Moses but sentenced them to be returned to Babylon for captivity and mostly death.  In the meantime God had given them kings in His anger to carry out the WORSHIP OF THE STARRY HOST until they could be removed to Babylon.

So you have the WORSHIP OF THE STARRY host and only after the sacrifices for Judah and Jerusalem did Hezekiah COMMAND what David had commanded. So when they MAKE NOISE you will discover that 2 Chron 29 says that it was by the COMMAND OF DAVID. There are several other parallels. To prove that this was God's ABANDONMENT to paganism and NOT His approved patternism, you can read some Psalms and the prophets for background IN ADDITION to Christ's permissive will to TEAR DOWN the Temple devoted to STAR and SERPENT worship.

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers:

       who received the lively oracles to give unto us: Acts 7:38

       To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them,
       and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, Acts 7:39

Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. Acts 7:40

And they made a calf in those days,
        and offered sacrifice unto the idol,
        and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Acts 7:41


This was musical idolatry.

THIS IS WHAT FALSE TEACHERS ARE TRYING TO RESTORE:

Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;

      as it is written in the book of the prophets,
      O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts
      and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness? Acts 7:42


God had not COMMANDED animal sacrifices to pay for His Grace.  However, people LUST to worship the CREATURE.

Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch,
       and the star of your god Remphan,
       figures which ye made to worship them:
       and I will carry you away beyond Babylon. Acts 7:43


The Tabernacle was a sign of God's presence with them whereever they were and not in HOUSES.

Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness,
         as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses,
         that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen. Acts 7:44

Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles,
         whom God drave out before the face of our fathers,
         unto the days of David; Acts 7:45

Who found favour before God,
       and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. Acts 7:46

But Solomon built him an house. Acts 7:47

Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet. Acts 7:48

Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Acts 7:49


Stephen told the Jews what is clear in the Old Testament that God cannot be fed, clothed, housed, entertained with music or sexually used as in Jerusalem.  The EFFORT people use as a PATTERNISM to say that the "spirit" told them that God commanded THEM to add instrumental praise or they would disobey Him is a flat contradiction of all of the Bible and according to Stephen while Jesus Christ in heaven STOOD UP to bear witness to the truth of Stephen's repudiation of the modern pharisees and Scribes Jesus called hypocrites by naming speakers, singers and instrument players.

Hath not my hand made all these things? Acts 7:50
        Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears,
        ye do always resist the Holy Ghost:
        as your fathers did, so do ye. Acts 7:51


Sacrifices were restricted to INSIDE of the walls of Jerusalem while the GODLY PEOPLE were "outside the camp" attending synagogue which began in the wilderness to keep the godly people FROM doing what a few evil men are now trying to impose PLANNING to sow discord so they can steal the church houses of widows and honest workers.

Ask: why do legalistic sectarians INSIST on RESISTING the Holy spirit just as did all of those under the Monarchy.

I need a nap but I will show that the command for the warrior's instruments were BY DAVID because the only evidence of God's command was for the two silver trumpets to be BLOWN to signal various events.
 

Offline lancelot

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 02:16:09 PM »
Quote
Now, you have them STANDING or HOLDING the instruments not INSIDE of any holy place....

Who were you addressing?  If you were addressing what I posted, nothing was said about what I posted.

Quoting you:
You need to read 2 Chronicles 29 more carefully: the separation is ABSOLUTE between the singing and instrumentsof David and the TRUMPETS commanded by Moses (only).

2 Chronicles 29:25 He then stationed the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with harps and with lyres, according to the command of David and of Gad the king's seer, and of Nathan the prophet; for the command was from the LORD through His prophets.

Where is the separation you claim?

Further, we can see in Ps.150 and Ps.81, for example, that God commanded worship with instruments under the law of Moses.  But, there has been a change in law and there is no authority for them today.

Lancelot

blituri

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Re: Did Change of Law Change Instrumental Worship?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2009, 06:57:12 PM »
Still want to use the worship of the starry host for your PATTERNISM? Stepen in Acts 7 defines some of the "gods" one of which was Molech which was the "god" in the wilderness and in Jerusalem where they burned infants before they INVENTED burning animals off and on. You will remember that as soon as Hezekiah died and the city was secure his son RESTORED buring children.

2 Chronicles 29:25 He then stationed the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with harps and with lyres, according to the command of David and of Gad the king's seer, and of Nathan the prophet; for the command was from the LORD through His prophets.

Even if you let a comma force this passage to CONTRADICT all of the other parallels such as David's hundreds of years earlier as a patternism---

And, even if you forget Who commanded What and for what purposes, the Levites were in the COURT and never in a covered space such as the Holy Place as an earthly type of the body of Church of Christ. You will have noticed that in this event the Levites could not enter into the type of the Church of Christ EVEN TO CARRY OUT the garbage from the Assyrians which included vessels meaning both containers and Psalteries.

And if you forget that the people's congregation was OUTSIDE of the city gates and never attended an animal slaughter with exorcism noises "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter." 

Then, if you care to read the rest tell us WHO made a great noise on WHICH instruments and WHO commanded whick instruments.  Being in ATTENDANCE with the warrior's instruments was because this was a CIVIL or national ritual identical to that of Canaan or Babylon or Egypt to which God abandoned them.

You have to grasp the ACTUAL PERFORMANCE to understand which noise makers were commanded by whom: we know that the command through Moses the prophet was for TWO SILVER TRUMPETS.

For whom were the goats offered?

And what was Christ's opinion on burnt offerings and all sacrifices.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 07:06:21 PM by blituri »