Does the CoC lean more toward the Catholic tradition or the Protestant tradition

[spurly]

Does the CoC lean more toward the Catholic tradition or the Protestant tradition?  Does it lean more toward faith + works and being saved through the sacrements (Cartholicism) or being saved by grace through faith (Protestantism)?  I'm just curious.

[da525382]

Having grown up in the cofC and now looking back on it, it is my opinion that the similarities between the two (cofC and catholicism) are striking.  The "sacraments" are fewer in number (water baptism, Lord's supper, attendance at all services vs attendance at Mass), but seem to function very similarly in their theologic construct, that is that they are an essential part of the salvational "process".  Both believe that one is not truly saved in this life.  There are many parallels that could be drawn between the two and discussed, ISTM.  I believe there are far more similarities than differences because the underlying grids of their respective soteriologies are so similar.

[broach972]

Having grown up in the cofC and now looking back on it, it is my opinion that the similarities between the two (cofC and catholicism) are striking.  The "sacraments" are fewer in number (water baptism, Lord's supper, attendance at all services vs attendance at Mass), but seem to function very similarly in their theologic construct, that is that they are an essential part of the salvational "process".  Both believe that one is not truly saved in this life.  There are many parallels that could be drawn between the two and discussed, ISTM.  I believe there are far more similarities than differences because the underlying grids of their respective soteriologies are so similar.

Wow, I didn't expect this answer.  Interesting indeed.

[blituri]

People in the church of Christ believe in salvation BY grace Through faith which is opposed to:

Salvation which is derived FROM yourself.
Ephesians has a FIRST half and it is easy to teach error by lifting out of context: Ephesians 1 and the FIRST part of Ephesians 2 shows the same PATTERNISM of being RISEN with Christ which Paul always connects to Baptism.

The rest of the chapter proves that baptism will be one of the SHOWING ACTS of HOW God saves BY Grace Through FAITH. GRACE in the usual sense spoke of the brown-eyed Greek prostitute Goddess. Paul REassigns the words to prove that ACCESS to God is not through the polluted rituals but through the WORD which Jesus said is SPIRIT and LIFE.  No historic figure used by the The O lites ever taught SOLA FIDE in the sense of RAW FAITH.  The word PISTIS as in He that believeth AND is baptized SHALL BE SAVED. The Word is defined and used by the literate to demand COMPLIANCE to be trust.

The Apistos word mean COMPLIETH NOT and in the Bible and literature parallels means to REVOLT or to be a TREACHEROUS  person. Those who COMPLIETH NOT will be damned.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Here is the definition of BELIEVETH NOT:

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him

The Restoration Movement continued the meaning of SOLA FIDE of Luther and Calvin both of whom define adult baptism just the way the Campbells defined it.  It was the STONEITES who taught at FOR means BECAUSE OF.  Find a historic scholar who says that "Baptism does not save" who does not go on and say "without faith."

In Luke 7 Jesus defined the GENERATIONS which specificially MARK the pipers, singers and dancers whom He consigned to the MARKETPLACE which was MARKED OFF from the ekklesia (church) which was for vocal instruction only. Those who call Jesus and othere liars are specificially those who try to do CEREMONIAL LEGALISM with music.

Luke 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luke 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

The Greek literature paints a very UGLY picture of those worshipers of Dionysus to whom God abandoned them at Mount Sinai BECAUSE of musical idolatry.

[marc]

Protestant.  It's not even close, although I have run into people tryng to slander the Church of Christ by calling them "Little Catholics" (based on the "One True Church" stance), the tradition is informed by Presbyterian, Baptist, Enlightenment thought, and a few odds and ends, with not much real Catholicism included.

btw, the idea that the Church of Christ does not believe that one is not truly saved in this life is blatantly untrue. I suppose that you could argue that if one believes that  you could lose all your money that means that you don't truly have any money, but that would be a somewhat loony argument. 

[da525382]

People in the church of Christ believe in salvation BY grace Through faith which is opposed to:

Salvation which is derived FROM yourself.
Ephesians has a FIRST half and it is easy to teach error by lifting out of context: Ephesians 1 and the FIRST part of Ephesians 2 shows the same PATTERNISM of being RISEN with Christ which Paul always connects to Baptism.

The rest of the chapter proves that baptism will be one of the SHOWING ACTS of HOW God saves BY Grace Through FAITH. GRACE in the usual sense spoke of the brown-eyed Greek prostitute Goddess. Paul REassigns the words to prove that ACCESS to God is not through the polluted rituals but through the WORD which Jesus said is SPIRIT and LIFE.  No historic figure used by the The O lites ever taught SOLA FIDE in the sense of RAW FAITH.  The word PISTIS as in He that believeth AND is baptized SHALL BE SAVED. The Word is defined and used by the literate to demand COMPLIANCE to be trust.

The Apistos word mean COMPLIETH NOT and in the Bible and literature parallels means to REVOLT or to be a TREACHEROUS  person. Those who COMPLIETH NOT will be damned.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Here is the definition of BELIEVETH NOT:

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him

The Restoration Movement continued the meaning of SOLA FIDE of Luther and Calvin both of whom define adult baptism just the way the Campbells defined it.  It was the STONEITES who taught at FOR means BECAUSE OF.  Find a historic scholar who says that "Baptism does not save" who does not go on and say "without faith."

In Luke 7 Jesus defined the GENERATIONS which specificially MARK the pipers, singers and dancers whom He consigned to the MARKETPLACE which was MARKED OFF from the ekklesia (church) which was for vocal instruction only. Those who call Jesus and othere liars are specificially those who try to do CEREMONIAL LEGALISM with music.

Luke 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luke 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

The Greek literature paints a very UGLY picture of those worshipers of Dionysus to whom God abandoned them at Mount Sinai BECAUSE of musical idolatry.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China, Blituri?  What don't you simply answer Spurly's question?  Focus.

[da525382]

Having grown up in the cofC and now looking back on it, it is my opinion that the similarities between the two (cofC and catholicism) are striking.  The "sacraments" are fewer in number (water baptism, Lord's supper, attendance at all services vs attendance at Mass), but seem to function very similarly in their theologic construct, that is that they are an essential part of the salvational "process".  Both believe that one is not truly saved in this life.  There are many parallels that could be drawn between the two and discussed, ISTM.  I believe there are far more similarities than differences because the underlying grids of their respective soteriologies are so similar.

Wow, I didn't expect this answer.  Interesting indeed.

Broach,

Haven't you ever listened to Catholics who used to be in a church of Christ?  You can hear their interviews online on the catholic network (ETWN?, Bruce Sullivan, etc.), anyway, without exception, those I have heard said the transition was seamless.

[da525382]

Protestant.  It's not even close, although I have run into people tryng to slander the Church of Christ by calling them "Little Catholics" (based on the "One True Church" stance), the tradition is informed by Presbyterian, Baptist, Enlightenment thought, and a few odds and ends, with not much real Catholicism included.

btw, the idea that the Church of Christ does not believe that one is not truly saved in this life is blatantly untrue. I suppose that you could argue that if one believes that  you could lose all your money that means that you don't truly have any money, but that would be a somewhat loony argument. 

I could argue that with you, then, till the sun goes down(about not being saved in this life).  I was drenched in it in the cofC, so you certainly will not be able to lecture me about it.  I listened to sermons on that incessantly.  The only thing you could be assured of was to cock your head to the side and backward constantly looking over your shoulder for that sneak attack that would lose what little you truly had of your salvation to begin with.

[blituri]

Question: Does the CoC lean more toward the Catholic tradition or the Protestant tradition?  Does it lean more toward faith + works and being saved through the sacrements (Cartholicism) or being saved by grace through faith (Protestantism)?  I'm just curious.

I gave the Biblical and historical understanding of SOLA FIDE and the role of baptism: I think I responded to that very well!  Maybe it would be more straight up to say that you do not believe in the historic view of baptism which the Church of Christ got from the Bible and not from the Catholics.

Maybe it is all of the Bible stuff which confuses you? They WERE quoting from the LAST part of Ephesians 2: maybe you didn't know what they were quoting. I would suggest those who quote the mantra which is distorting the truth to read Ephesians 1 and 2 in context.  I usually find Ephesians by looking up the index.

[da525382]

Question: Does the CoC lean more toward the Catholic tradition or the Protestant tradition?  Does it lean more toward faith + works and being saved through the sacrements (Cartholicism) or being saved by grace through faith (Protestantism)?  I'm just curious.

I gave the Biblical and historical understanding of SOLA FIDE and the role of baptism: I think I responded to that very well!  Maybe it would be more straight up to say that you do not believe in the historic view of baptism which the Church of Christ got from the Bible and not from the Catholics.

Maybe it is all of the Bible stuff which confuses you? They WERE quoting from the LAST part of Ephesians 2: maybe you didn't know what they were quoting. I would suggest those who quote the mantra which is distorting the truth to read Ephesians 1 and 2 in context.  I usually find Ephesians by looking up the index.

So, I'm sorry to be so dense, please set me straight.  Which is it that you say the cofC is closer to, the catholics or protestants?  For the life of me, I haven't the slightest idea what your answer is.

[ravenlorre]

All Protestants secretly fear that tjey are too Catholic - CoC are no different.

Ravenlorre

[janine]

It's true, there are many dyed-in-the-wool Church-o-Christ people, who live out their religious lives, their spiritual lives, in a strikingly Catholic way.

[Bocephus]

Does the CoC lean more toward the Catholic tradition or the Protestant tradition?  Does it lean more toward faith + works and being saved through the sacrements (Cartholicism) or being saved by grace through faith (Protestantism)?  I'm just curious.

Being that it is a bunch of little autonomous churches with a common ancestry rather than a monolithic church, I would say some are more Catholic.  Some more Protestant.

[MarkHooper]

 Intersting question

 However to answer for the 25 division of the church I think would be a monumental task. But if there was a single answer then the ideas of autonomy and non denominationalism would obviously be a farce. I know some churches claim neither prodestant or Catholic but just Christian.

 

[BondServant]

I have no fear of either being "too catholic" or "not catholic enough."

I walk with God as best I can and know I will see Him in Heaven.

As far as CoC comparisons, go, they are very similiar to Independent and Missionary Baptists...

In Christ,
KP