Does the CoC lean more toward the Catholic tradition or the Protestant tradition

[Arkstfan]

More akin to Catholic.

Sacramental views of communion and baptism that are generally only seen in the closer Catholic cousins the Orthodox, Anglican and Lutherans.

[DCR]

Ironically, those views could be said to have come about from an even stricter adherence to sola scriptura than most of our Protestant predecessors who originated the concept.

The more sacramental concept of baptism in the RM came about from a close study of the issue in scripture.

[s1n4m1n]

Ha. While one can see a sacramental view in baptism among CoCs (the blood/grace being applied in through baptism), CoC teaching on the Lord's Supper is standard Baptist/evangelical  teaching, except for the frequency.

Granted, CoCers partake with some solemnity, however, I have yet to hear of CoC teaching that grace is imparted through the actions, and in fact that aspect is always denied.

I remember boringoldguy mentioning to me that his son at ACU had a class where the professor tried to argue that because CoCs don't have sacramental view of the LS that CoCers shouldn't have a sacramental view of baptism either (i.e. that baptism is for salvation). BOG said his son argued with his professor that if that argument made sense one could just as easily argue from the opposite direction.

Ken

[Arkstfan]

But it is taught as required act that must be participated in weekly. If the teaching were in line with Baptist theology there wouldn't be "make-up" communion on Sunday night.

[s1n4m1n]

But it is taught as required act that must be participated in weekly. If the teaching were in line with Baptist theology there wouldn't be "make-up" communion on Sunday night.

You have to look at the reason why is it done weekly. Its not done weekly from some sacramental point of view but from contorted CENI logic of Acts 20:7. Even then frequency is not as critical as what is actually taught about the Lord's Supper.

In CoCs the teaching is that the bread represents the body and the fruit of the vine represents the blood and that Jesus' instituted the LS to help us remember his DBR. At least that is the constant teaching at my wife's church and it is often stated before or during the prayers for the LS. I have not found anything significantly different other than the agape meal teaching from more progressive CoCers.

Here is a statement from the Southern Baptist Convention website: The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members … memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.


The above teachings appear to be the same to me. Now if the requirement to have it every Sunday points to sacramental thinking then I would hope that people in CoCs would follow it to the natural conclusion.

My own personal  worship experience has been several years growing up in a (admittedly nominal)  Lutheran setting, fifteen years in the CoC, and four years in Catholic worship.

Ken

[s1n4m1n]

BTW, just on the mere externals of worship I think there is very little difference between a church of Christ worship service and a conservative Baptist worship service, excepting instrumental music and choirs.

For example, drop a coC member into a Baptist church on Sunday and they can easily follow along. Drop that same member into a Catholic church on Sunday and they will almost immediately get lost. That's how different things are.

Ken

[koscheiman]

BTW, just on the mere externals of worship I think there is very little difference between a church of Christ worship service and a conservative Baptist worship service, excepting instrumental music and choirs.

For example, drop a coC member into a Baptist church on Sunday and they can easily follow along. Drop that same member into a Catholic church on Sunday and they will almost immediately get lost. That's how different things are.

Ken

There may not be a big difference in the service, but there is in the teachings.

[s1n4m1n]

BTW, just on the mere externals of worship I think there is very little difference between a church of Christ worship service and a conservative Baptist worship service, excepting instrumental music and choirs.

For example, drop a coC member into a Baptist church on Sunday and they can easily follow along. Drop that same member into a Catholic church on Sunday and they will almost immediately get lost. That's how different things are.

Ken

There may not be a big difference in the service, but there is in the teachings.

With regards to the Lord's Supper, other than frequency, I can't think of any.

Ken

[Arkstfan]

BTW, just on the mere externals of worship I think there is very little difference between a church of Christ worship service and a conservative Baptist worship service, excepting instrumental music and choirs.

For example, drop a coC member into a Baptist church on Sunday and they can easily follow along. Drop that same member into a Catholic church on Sunday and they will almost immediately get lost. That's how different things are.

Ken

There may not be a big difference in the service, but there is in the teachings.

With regards to the Lord's Supper, other than frequency, I can't think of any.

Ken

Churches of Christ are more Arminian while the Baptist are more Calvin.

[s1n4m1n]

BTW, just on the mere externals of worship I think there is very little difference between a church of Christ worship service and a conservative Baptist worship service, excepting instrumental music and choirs.

For example, drop a coC member into a Baptist church on Sunday and they can easily follow along. Drop that same member into a Catholic church on Sunday and they will almost immediately get lost. That's how different things are.

Ken

There may not be a big difference in the service, but there is in the teachings.

With regards to the Lord's Supper, other than frequency, I can't think of any.

Ken

Churches of Christ are more Arminian while the Baptist are more Calvin.

I mean teachings about the Lord's Supper. AFAIK Baptists don't follow Calvin's teachings on the LS.

Ken

[James.]

In the interest of accuracy, "sacramental" doesn't equate with "for salvation."  Plenty of groups that do not believe baptism is necessary for salvation claim a "sacremental" view of the same.

Recognize the phrase in bold?


sac⋅ra⋅ment
–noun
1.    Ecclesiastical. a visible sign of an inward grace, esp. one of the solemn Christian rites considered to have been instituted by Jesus Christ to symbolize or confer grace: the sacraments of the Protestant churches are baptism and the Lord's Supper; the sacraments of the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches are baptism, confirmation, the Eucharist, matrimony, penance, holy orders, and extreme unction.
2.    (often initial capital letter) Also called Holy Sacrament. the Eucharist or Lord's Supper.
3.    the consecrated elements of the Eucharist, esp. the bread.
4.    something regarded as possessing a sacred character or mysterious significance.
5.    a sign, token, or symbol.
6.    an oath; solemn pledge.

[DCR]

I guess it depends on who's defining it.  An "outward sign of an inward grace" in the above definition is Protestant in origin.  But, most definitions I've seen carry the idea of "conferring grace" (including in the above).  While the definition stated above leaves it open by saying "to symbolize or confer grace" (which are two very different concepts), to be sure, one side of the issue leans toward the "symbolize" idea, while the other side leans toward the "confer" idea.

[James.]

All mainline Protestant churches believe that baptism is a sacrament (Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.).  What they would say that they don't believe in is not sacramental baptism, but regenerational baptism.  Where the "conferring grace" language is used, again "salvational" is not synonymous.  For example, for one to receive the sacrament of the eucharist, one must already be saved.  The grace conferred in that instance is a blessing within a saved relationship.  This is why you will often an indefinite article added: "confer a grace." 

Anywho, the definition I gave is not just a Protestant definition.  Here is the first sentence in the entry on "Sacraments" in the Catholic Encyclopedia at NewAdvent.org:

"Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification (Catechismus concil. Trident., n. 4, ex St. Augustine, "De Catechizandis rudibus")."

[DCR]

Interesting.  Then, Augustine apparently originated that phrase (if I'm understanding the cited reference).  I have only heard evangelical/Protestant types use it with reference to baptism.  So, I just assumed that one of the Reformers came up with it.