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Offline forklift

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Question for you CofC'ers
« on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 00:28:09 »
My Mother-in-law is a member of a conservative CofC. She maintains that, well, you guys know what she believes. Anyway, I asked her a question and she couldn't answer it and she has asked her preacher and elders. Out of those, I think, 7 men, she got one answer, and it was pretty weak. Anyway, enough rambling, here is the question:

If you are a NT church that follows the teachings of the Bible to the letter, then how do you get around James 5:14 and 15 -

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

The answer my Mother-in-law got from one of the elders was that we don't know what kind of oil to use, so we don't do it.

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Question for you CofC'ers
« on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 00:28:09 »

Offline DaveW

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #1 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 05:27:11 »
Wow, that is pretty weak. A neccesary inference (historical) would indicate that olive oil was commonly used for just about everything.  Since it is not specifically spelled out, probably any oil would satisfy the biblical command.

I know of no CoC that actively does this, however I have known of a few congregants who ask their elders for prayer when sick.

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #1 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 05:27:11 »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #2 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 06:37:48 »
I've known of our elders using olive oil before. 

Offline DCR

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #3 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 09:48:35 »
I've heard of this too among the CofC... using oil to anoint and pray over someone.  It isn't common by any stretch... but not completely unheard of.

But, a lot of scruples about that sort of thing have become relaxed in recent years from old traditional hard lines.


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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #3 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 09:48:35 »

Offline pointmade

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #4 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 17:34:30 »
I believe verses 13-14 are critical...
Here we read of three retotical questions: "Is any among you sick?" Let him call for the elders.
"Is any among you afflicted? l et him pray
Is any merry? let him sing prase."

Is verse 15 about repentance called for? If not, why "prayer of faith that will save the sick"?
It was customary to anoint with oil after one recovers from his sick bed in the early church.

I do not find miraculous healing in this verse, "oil" would not be the healing vehicle anyway....
We are to pray for the sick. "Let him pray" ( v. 14 ). It would be God's PROVENCE.
If it is God's will, so be it....But, I have seen many who get up from their sick bed that no one
ever prays over....
God's provence covers a lot of territory.
Ever pray over a dying man of about 95 years?
Brother, oil is not going to be of any affect.


« Last Edit: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 20:01:01 by pointmade »

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #4 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 17:34:30 »



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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #5 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 20:11:34 »
I have used oil and prayer with a few people. Sometimes they ask for it; sometimes the elders offer. But it isn't overly common.

Offline forklift

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #6 on: Tue Feb 07, 2012 - 23:03:23 »
I believe verses 13-14 are critical...
Here we read of three retotical questions: "Is any among you sick?" Let him call for the elders.
"Is any among you afflicted? l et him pray
Is any merry? let him sing prase."

Is verse 15 about repentance called for? If not, why "prayer of faith that will save the sick"?
It was customary to anoint with oil after one recovers from his sick bed in the early church.

I do not find miraculous healing in this verse, "oil" would not be the healing vehicle anyway....
We are to pray for the sick. "Let him pray" ( v. 14 ). It would be God's PROVENCE.
If it is God's will, so be it....But, I have seen many who get up from their sick bed that no one
ever prays over....
God's provence covers a lot of territory.
Ever pray over a dying man of about 95 years?
Brother, oil is not going to be of any affect.




Oh, I agree. It's not the oil at all, but that's a cop out. Based on that logic, you don't need baptism either, I mean, it's not the water.  Her main premise, and the premise of her church is that if it's in the Bible, do it, if it's not in the Bible, don't. Well, that's in the Bible, yet they don't do it. It's no skin off of my nose, it's just the hypocrisy of telling me and my wife that we are wrong because our church doesn't "do what the Bible says and adds things and what not."

I'm just trying to get a clear handle on her beliefs, or more importantly, the beliefs of her church, because I don't think she truly understands them, she just blindly follows those that tell her what to believe.

Offline pointmade

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #7 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 05:58:25 »
Oh, I agree. It's not the oil at all, but that's a cop out. Based on that logic, you don't need baptism either, I mean, it's not the water.  Her main premise, and the premise of her church is that if it's in the Bible, do it, if it's not in the Bible, don't. Well, that's in the Bible, yet they don't do it. It's no skin off of my nose, it's just the hypocrisy of telling me and my wife that we are wrong because our church doesn't "do what the Bible says and adds things and what not."

"I'm just trying to get a clear handle on her beliefs, or more importantly, the beliefs of her church, because I don't think she truly understands them, she just blindly follows those that tell her what to believe."

Well no, it's not a "cop out"...the oil was used after recovery. This was a common courtesy in the day.
Do you believe that everyone that was oiled down recovered forever?
The apostle Paul was often sick in his journeys...Ever read about him receiving oil for recovery?

Baptism in water is "for the remission of sins," not a method of physical recovery.
That may be the first "handle" you need to get "hold of."

The Bible also says "love your neighbor." Do you need an elder to perscribe this, and check if your are obeying the Bible?
The church in Jerusalem "sold their possessions and goods and parted them to all men as every man had need."
Sold many of your possessions?

Ever given any thought about becoming an elder?
Ever studied the requirements of an elder in 1 Timothy 3 ?
Pouring oil is not high on the list.

Online Johnb

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #8 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 06:57:32 »
Point
My brother you are using a cop out here.  The text does not say or imply to anoint them with oil after they recover.  It said if you are sick (not just recovered from being sick) call for the elders....

Now forklift to your question.  If she goes to a very conservative /legalistic CoC they are following the CENI system of interpretation of scripture.  
C  Follow all NT commands (except those we don't agree with)
E  Follow all approved examples (except the ones we choose not to follow.)
NI  something is necessarily inferred when we say it is    ::smile:: ::smile::

Offline DaveW

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #9 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 09:55:37 »
If she goes to a very conservative /legalistic CoC they are following the CENI system of interpretation of scripture.  
C  Follow all NT commands (except those we don't agree with)
E  Follow all approved examples (except the ones we choose not to follow.)
NI  something is necessarily inferred when we say it is  
That is rather cynical.

Although I do understand where it is coming from.

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #10 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 09:56:50 »

I'm just trying to get a clear handle on her beliefs, or more importantly, the beliefs of her church, because I don't think she truly understands them, she just blindly follows those that tell her what to believe.

Oh, here's the clear handle, then.  Some do and some don't because there is not a uniform belief about it.  There might be a uniform belief about it if we all just blindly followed what folks told us to believe, but we don't so there isn't.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #11 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 10:05:14 »
One of the big problems with being a self described "un-denomination" [with 'denomination' being defined as having a central authority] is that each congregation can come up with a unique understanding and intrepretation and there is no forum for them to hammer out the differences. So they just shun the other congregations as "liberals" or "errant brethern."

Ends up with a wide variety of beliefs and practices.

Online Johnb

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #12 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 16:35:44 »
If she goes to a very conservative /legalistic CoC they are following the CENI system of interpretation of scripture. 
C  Follow all NT commands (except those we don't agree with)
E  Follow all approved examples (except the ones we choose not to follow.)
NI  something is necessarily inferred when we say it is 
That is rather cynical.

Although I do understand where it is coming from.

May be cynical but being a former CoC preacher and dealing with the "ultra conservative" wing of the CoC it is accurate.

Offline pointmade

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #13 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 16:56:50 »
OK Johnb,  if someone feels they can be brought back to health by having their head saturated with oil,
I will agree ...go for it.
I have been around and watched the service...most often it is done as a last resort.
It definitely would not be a miraculous healing unless you know of elders who have the gift of healing.

Guess, I 'm just cynical...but I know of a few elders I would hesitate to ask to anoint with oil.
Brother, how about those elders you had a run in with? ever see them pray over the sick and see a recovery?

For sure there is no guarantee...but, if it would encourage the sick person, fine...but, do not hang the elders if there
is a funeral in the near future.
Any way, you know what the reformers say..."Case sere rah, sere rah"
"Whatever will be, will be."

Online Johnb

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #14 on: Wed Feb 08, 2012 - 19:46:41 »
Point
Not looking for a miracle healing and no don't think the elders have that power.  Just saying that is what the text said .  I don't understand the connection with water and obeying either but I will do both.  Perhaps like baptism it is an act of faith and obedience.  Not saying it should always be done just saying I will not try to change the text.  Hope that makes some sense.
PS I have been the recipient of miracles but not at the hand of man.

Offline pointmade

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #15 on: Thu Feb 09, 2012 - 08:37:27 »
Johnb: "Point
Not looking for a miracle healing and no don't think the elders have that power.  Just saying that is what the text said .  I don't understand the connection with water and obeying either but I will do both.  Perhaps like baptism it is an act of faith and obedience.  Not saying it should always be done just saying I will not try to change the text.  Hope that makes some sense.
PS I have been the recipient of miracles but not at the hand of man."

True....makes sense to me.
We can take from these verses that the sick in the CoC are to "call on the elders"--- NOT the preacher..
This is one reason I do not believe the preacher is to be an "elder" in the CoC.
Why? I believe he becomes a pastoral symbol, or becomes the lead dog in harness
which Scripture has never given authority.

The elders have a responsibility in the Lord's church as described in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1
Paul told Titus to establish "elders in every city," Titus 1:5. It is the elders that "must give an account,
for they watch over your soul" (Heb. 13). One of his requirement is "apt to teach sound doctrine"
When a man "seeks" to become an elder, he is bound by Scripture to feed the church which he
has purchased with his own blood (Acts 20:28).  

Oil was significant in biblical time. The "good Samaratin" anointed the wounds of the man with oil.
Mary Magdalene anointed Jesus' head with oil. David was anointed with oil by Samuel to be the
first King of Israel, etc.  

I note the Catholic Church uses this verse in James 5:14 to use oil in "extreme unction"
on the head of those who are about to die, or on the dead.
This is a sacramental view that the oil itself on a person's head brings about the presence of
the Holy Spirit.
I do not believe that water baptism brings one in contact with the Holy Spirit. I believe the text reads
that we "receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). If we are not careful, we become as the
RCC and many of the Reformers believing water baptism to be a sacrament, or the vehicle for grace.

Now personally I have seen or heard about oil used on the sick in which some have lived and some die shortly after.
The faith healers in and out of the Catholic Church use this text to say that they can do as Jesus
and the apostles, but Jesus and the apostles healed all they meant to heal; there were no failures.
No man today can claim this manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

In James 5:14 we read the oil is used on those who are about to live..
In verse 15 we read that "the prayer of faith shall save the sick."
I believe here we see a person in need of repentance.
In Hebrews 13 we read that it is the elders who must "watch and be held in account of your soul."

I believe verse 15 is addressed to the elders of the church. Is it not their prayer of faith that shall save the sick?
Note again verse 7 of Hebrews 13: "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken
unto you the word of God: whose faith follow considering the end of their conversation."
Reading on down in the chapter: "Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error
of his way, shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."
Calling on the elders seems to be the Biblical way of bring a sinful man back into the fold.
My thoughts Brother....And I do believe your PS, He does watch out over His children!

  


« Last Edit: Thu Feb 09, 2012 - 08:47:38 by pointmade »

Online Johnb

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #16 on: Thu Feb 09, 2012 - 09:24:23 »
Point
 If we don't hire a preacher we don't have the problem.  In almost any assembly there are several who are able to lead the study.  A lot more cost effective also. ::tippinghat::

Offline pointmade

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #17 on: Thu Feb 09, 2012 - 11:26:57 »
Johnb..."If we don't hire a preacher we don't have the problem.  In almost any assembly there are several who are able to lead the study.  A lot more cost effective also."

True.....What are your thoughts on 1 Timothy 5:7-18? "Let the elder that rule well be accounted worthy of
double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the Scriptures say, Thou shall not
muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, the labour is worthy of his reward".

I have two thought...I have watched small churches become stagnate because IMO the ox is muzzled.
There are a number of ways to muzzle the ox in the church and I am sure you have an opinion on this.

When I see a small group of Christians grow into a mega church it takes men and women who have a
desire to save souls. In the great commission, Jesus said, "Go you therefore and make disciples etc".
The action verb is "make." I have found that in the church, God has equipped men and women who
love and honour  Him the "know how" to lead souls to Christ.
I wish I would have gotten involved early in my live to know the Word. Too fast old, too slow smart....
Later brother....the best to you and "house church" I know you are a very good teacher....

Online Johnb

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #18 on: Thu Feb 09, 2012 - 15:55:41 »
Point if you recall from previous discussions I don't hold the the traditional CoC view of an elder as an official office but one who is an elder by age and their life.  The KJV of "rule well"  gives a concept that IMO is not warranted by the original.  The NIV direct the affairs of standing in front or persuading is a much better understanding of what was intended.  Those who do a good job of leading the church are worthy of great honor.  The muzzle not the ox it often used to justify paying a preacher.  That simply does not fit with the text.  There are no examples of our modern day hireling clergy in the NT.     

Offline Norton

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #19 on: Thu Feb 09, 2012 - 22:09:51 »
Johnb

Quote
"The muzzle not the ox it often used to justify paying a preacher.  That simply does not fit with the text.  There are no examples of our modern day hireling clergy in the NT. "

How do you interpret I Cor 9: 1-18 then? Maybe we don't have an example, but it seems to me Paul is saying the "clergy" has a right to be paid for their work.

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #20 on: Fri Feb 10, 2012 - 06:31:29 »
Norton
1. Even though Paul claimed the right he did not take pay for fear that some would think that was the reason he preached the gospel.

2.  I have never said it was unscriptural just not a good use of funds to support a located preacher.

3. In context Paul was referring to those evangelist that proclaim the gospel and that is not the role of a local preacher.  He is a house keeper and usually does the job that elders and other Christians should be doing.

4. There is no evidence of the hireling clergy system that we have to day in the NT assembly.  The best example we have of what took place in the assembly is found in I Cor 14

 26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
 29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

5.The role of teaching and planing how to spread the gospel good news of Christ) clearly falls on the whole assembly. The preacher in the institutional church has very few non believers in the assembly.  He is a house keeper and a surrogate that does many of the jobs that the members should be doing.

Again I am not saying it is unscriptural just that this system is not found in the NT.  Also I am saying it eats up most of the resources of a smaller assembly and renders them unable to do much to help others or spread the gospel.

Offline pointmade

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #21 on: Fri Feb 10, 2012 - 08:15:13 »
Johnb: "5.The role of teaching and planing how to spread the gospel good news of Christ) clearly falls on the whole assembly. The preacher in the institutional church has very few non believers in the assembly.  He is a house keeper and a surrogate that does many of the jobs that the members should be doing."

True.....but when I was working full time I had very little chance in catching up with those who were seeking the Lord.
When the phone rings at the local church those who are in need expect to speak with the "preacher,"
That is just the way it is in our modern world. He is the one who can make the calls at the hospital in the
middle of the day when uncle John is going into surgery. He represents the "flock," so to speak.
I would not want to follow my preacher around for a day. He makes more calls and visitation than I
could keep. Counsels those seeking an understanding of Christianity over Islam.

When grandma is on her death bed she wants to see the preacher, not the fellow who runs the
wastewater treatment plant ( my occupation for 30 years (++).
Family expects the preacher. The one who can exegesis John 3:5 without falling all over himself into
miraculous conversions....if you get my drift...

The preacher is a man in the congregation of the saints who grieves for grandma in a way that I cannot
because he has spent hours with her, and family in ways we are not aware.
If I had to go, and the pumps kicked off at the plant you cannot imagine the disaster back up stream....

Anyway, as I see it, the ox used to thresh grain was not to be muzzled. The animal had a right to partake
of the grain as he worked.  Deut. 25:4.

But, Johnb, I see your point in a "church house."
I try to keep in mind that the church was established on the words of the Holy Spirit (John 16:13)
via inspiration to His apostles (Ma. 10:20).
Paul would say "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they
who labour in the word and doctrine." That word "labour" is a stickler in our world.
When groceries are needed and taxes are due a preacher has the same responsibility as the next
"living stone" in the congregation. My thoughts Brother....

« Last Edit: Fri Feb 10, 2012 - 08:23:20 by pointmade »

Offline Norton

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #22 on: Fri Feb 10, 2012 - 09:53:41 »
Johnb & Pointmade

I know we are getting far off topic here, but I think you both made good points.

The reason for my question to Johnb was that a few Sundays ago I was filling in for our hireling (sermons only) preacher by teaching adult class. I was teaching from II Tim and made the statement that Timothy, a young man, was sent by Paul to the churches to appoint elders, teach, command, set things in order, etc. One brother became upset and said I was making those things up, that there was no example or pattern in the NT for a located paid preacher. I told him if he was looking for the pattern it was right here in the letters to Timothy. The brother, has not been back to church the last few meetings.

Many people say we can't use the example of Timothy for a modern day example of the "chain of command" in how to organize the church because Timothy was the right hand man of the apostle Paul. I suppose that is true, so let me state the obvious. If we have no modern day apostles, then we have no real pattern for organizing today's church. We can only imagine a hypothetical pattern of a First Century church with no apostles. Again, we find that the precise NT pattern that so many in our fellowship swear by, to be from men's imagination, not from the NT.

But, I do agree with both of you. It is best, especially in the smaller congregations, for all to participate in the work of teaching, saving money for other things. On the other hand, larger congregations do need full time staff for teaching and visitation. In my smaller congregation, for many years, we have mostly done the teaching ourselves, but have on occassion found a good preacher and paid him for a year or two. At the present, one from our midst, is so very talented and knowledgable that we have made him our regular Sunday morning teacher and preacher for the last eight or nine years. He accepts little or no pay.
« Last Edit: Fri Feb 10, 2012 - 10:25:40 by Norton »

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #23 on: Fri Feb 10, 2012 - 10:14:04 »
Point
Remember I spent several years as a full time paid preacher and you are right they make many visits phone calls etc.  However, using the busy life style of today is a cop out.  If there are 50 adult members and each make 1 phone call and one visit per week it would be more.  It also requires some organization and planning to do our duty.  It is the Christians responsibility to have the fellowship and make the visits not just a preacher.  You also have to work more together in an assembly where different folks lead the lesson.  I just don't like fellowshipping with the back of my brothers head while one man does a monologue.  That leaves little opportunity for growth and folks making personal commitment to their own Christian duty.  Remember I am stating my preference and not making laws for others.

Norton
I don't think the role of Timothy is any where the same as the IC preacher.  One I don't think "appoint" is the best English word on what he did for assembies concerning elders.  How many CoCs would let a preacher from somewhere else come in and appoint elders for their assembly?  My view of elders is also different than the traditional CoC view.  But as you said we are getting off topic but if you want to start a new thread on these subjects I will be glad to participate. 

LivingbyFaith61

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #24 on: Fri Feb 10, 2012 - 13:38:27 »
 ::eatingpopcorn:

Offline JonP

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #25 on: Sun Mar 04, 2012 - 19:46:14 »
Hello, brothers and sisters,

Am new to the forum, and found the topic interesting. Others may well have addressed these thoughts already, so my apologies for repeating what may have been already said more graciously. The question posed in this thread, as I understand it, concerns prayer and oil unctions. The scripture indicates that it is the responsibility of the sick person to ask for the elders. The matter, consequently, is not that elders (or whomever) must initiate the event, but that the elders need to be responsive to the request when it comes. The scripture indicates that the elders pray and anoint as a matter of course. The verb tense related to the elders' behavior is an imperative 3rd person, "let them pray", so it seems. I am not sure that the action enjoined upon the elders depends on their perceived likelihood of successful healing. Rather, prayer and anointing result from the sick person's initiating request, as noted already.

In Jesus,
Jon

Offline Scooby

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #26 on: Sat Apr 07, 2012 - 17:15:33 »
Forklift, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

During that time "oil" was what we call "medicene" and they used it for a lot of things.  Our congregation of just over 1,000 have elders and they when requested do annoint with oil. 

Scooby
::preachit::

Online Johnb

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #27 on: Sat Apr 07, 2012 - 19:23:46 »
Hey scooby
You have been away for a while.  How is life treating you?  I hope you are doing well and enjoying life. 

Offline Scooby

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #28 on: Sat Apr 07, 2012 - 23:09:18 »
Johnb, greetings from sunny Texas,

I am fine--retired finally and am about ready to get back to using my real name--although I do like scooby and my grandkids like scoobydoo.

Wife is another story--she fell 2and i/2 inches the floor while on her knees. That was in December and maybe by June or July we will have it repaired.
I bought her a knee wheeler to use and she is pretty good on it.  Everyone thought she just sprained her ankle but actually pulled tendons.  So the boot she was walking in--well, walking is a no no--so she is much much better--But life is fun and full.

Scooby

Online Johnb

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #29 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 06:41:54 »
Glad you are doing well.  Sorry about your wife.  It might take more time seems we don't heal as quick as we did when we were younger.  I retired back in 2007 and thought we would just travel and relax after I took care of many years of neglected "honey do" projects.  My cousin warned me that I would never get caught up,  He was right.  We will have all 11 of our grand children over for dinner and an Easter egg hunt today. 
Enjoy your retirement and take care of your wife it may be her turn to take care of you next.   ::smile::  That is the way it has been at our house but we are both doing   we with at least 5 trips planed this year including a 7 day cruise. God has been good to us!

Offline Alabama John

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #30 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 16:54:48 »
Scooby and Johnb

 I didn't realize you two were old folks like me. Good!!!

 I'm 73 and sorta retired but do help my sons in their Construction Co's occasionally.
 As a Native American Christian we have always worshiped God in mixed ways. Some Church of Christ and some by NA dances, oil, prayers done and offered in many ways unknown to any white church.

 So what?

 God hears prayers sent to the same God but in many ways and languages calling Him by many different names.

 Heck, He even heard and answered Lydia when she prayed to Him on a river bank. Would like to know what she called Him?
 

Offline Scooby

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #31 on: Mon Apr 09, 2012 - 11:41:11 »
AJ, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

So What?  hMMM. GUESS  it depends on how much of a democratic form of government we can inport into an absolute monarchy  that God will allow.

Scooby

Offline Alabama John

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #32 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 08:35:26 »
All monarchs like, want, and require to be worshiped. God is no exception.

God requires we love and worship Him, but, what we call Him and how we pray, standing, kneeling, laying on our face, doesn't matter but just that we are doing it.

We put the rules in most cases on what God will allow and of course, mans thinking in every circumstance is  that he is doing it just right.

Online Johnb

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Re: Question for you CofC'ers
« Reply #33 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 11:55:55 »
All monarchs like, want, and require to be worshiped. God is no exception.

God requires we love and worship Him, but, what we call Him and how we pray, standing, kneeling, laying on our face, doesn't matter but just that we are doing it.

We put the rules in most cases on what God will allow and of course, mans thinking in every circumstance is  that he is doing it just right.


 ::amen!::

 

     
anything