Racial Attitudes in Churches of Christ

[janine]

We ought to make side-trips off-topic more often.

I find myself not so much drawn to people who look like me, or even always to people who act like me... as to people who are neither much more nor much less intelligent than me.

What does that have to do with race or age or money?  And you can tell by my grammar it ain't always to do with education.  

Or at least, that's how it seems to work out.

When people do not operate out of a loving Christian heart of understanding, sometimes you can at least make a connection to their mind.

Connecting to people who are much more intelligent than I, or much less, requires Jesus for sure.  

Love is the better connection anyway.

[Bobby Valentine]

Greetings from the Valentines where we are getting some light snow.  The following post is called \"Racial Attitudes in Churches of Christ but was originally presented in 1997.  The context is addressing area Church of Christ ministers in New Orleans at a Preachers Meeting.  I was requested by the minister of the host congregation to present an historical overview of the problem of race relations among \"us.\"  In light of the recent interest concerning \"Black History Month\" I offer this -- unchanged -- from that 1997 meeting.

Bobby Valentine
Racial Attitudes in Churches of Christ
Elysian Fields Church of Christ
New Orleans Area Preachers Meeting
February 13, 1997

Some Scriptures:

But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an overflowing stream\" (Amos 5.24)

He [the LORD] defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him/her food and clothing.  And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt. (Deuteronomy 10.18-19)

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and the needy . . . therefore I did away with them as you have seen\" (Ezekiel 16. 49-50)

The Spirit of the LORD is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.  He has sent me to proclaim freedom for prisoners . . . (Luke 4.18)

You give a tenth of your spices - mint, dill and cummin.  But you have neglected the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy and faithfulness . . . (Matthew 23.23)

O LORD, God of Heaven, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him and obey his commands, let your ear be attentive and your eyes open to hear the prayer of your servant . . . I confess the sins of the Israelites, including myself and my father's house, have committed against you\" (Nehemiah 1.5-6)

Another \"Prophetic\" Voice:

\"When my mother was pregnant with me, she told me later a party of hooded Ku Klux Klan riders galloped up to our home in Omaha, Nebraska, one night.  Surrounding the house . . . the Klansmen shouted threats to my pregnant mother warning her we better get out of town because 'the good Christian white people' were not going to stand for my father's spreading trouble among the 'good' Negroes. . .\"
      \"All praise is due to Allah that I went to Boston when I did. If I hadn't I'd probably still be a brainwashed black Christian.\" (The Autobiography of Malcolm X pp. 3 & 46).

HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE: CHURCHES OF CHRIST AND RACE - THE MAJORITY TRADITION

An episode took place in March 1941 that highlights, almost as a sidelight, the prevalent racial attitudes in CofC's of the time.  It involved the very powerful editor Bishop of the Bible Banner, R. N. Hogan and the mild mannered evangelist Marsahll Keeble.  Foy E. Wallace Jr., had heard (through the grapevine) that Hogan had stopped by Ira Rice Jr.'s home and spent the night in that white brother's house.  Editor Wallace was so furious that he rebuked these men through the pages of his journal:

Aside from being an infringement on the Jim Crow law, it is a violation of Christianity itself, and of all common decency. Such conduct forfeits the respect of right thinking people, and would be calculated to stir up demonstrations in most any community if it should be generally known (\"Negro Meetings for White People,\" Bible Banner 3 [March 1941], p.7).

Foy Wallace then attacked Hogan as being \"too much inclined to mix with the white people and to favor, in attitude, social equality!\" Wallace did not take to the notion of equality with blacks very favorably.  But Wallace's tirade was not over yet.  He turned his sharp pen on the ever humble Marshall Keeble and the whites who attended his revivals.  He [Wallace] laments:

The manner in which the brethren in some quarters are going in for the negro meetings lead one to wonder whether they are trying to make white folks out of negroes . . . Reliable reports have come to me of white women, members of the church, becoming so animated over a certain colored preacher as to go up to him after a sermon and shake hands with him holdin his hand in both of theirs. That kind of thing will turn the head of most white preachers, and sometimes affect their conduct, and anybody ought to know that it makes fools out of the negroes and the women loses her dignity. (Ibid).

As painful as these words are for me to read today -- from a \"great\" preacher? -- I confess, sadly, this is hardly an isolated case.  Pioneer preacher of the Churches of Christ in Florida, W. A. Cameron, preached a sermon on a number of occasions called: The Origin and Development of the Negro Race (later published as a booklet to increase its circulation). This sermon is nothing less than bile but was received as \"sound\" doctrine.  Cameron says:

WE NOW COME TO THE NEGRO'S DEVELOPMENT. IT'S NILL.
They have been cursed with a sence [sic] of fear, ignorance, superstition and an inferior complex.  After 4,298 years they are still right where God left them.  We will do well to let them alone . . .

We have to admit that we have some very well educated negro's among us. SOme who have made good in business and various trades.  How do you account for that?  Yes, all those negro's who have a generous fertilization of white blood have invariably left the evidence of it behind them. But the genuine negro article is just what he has always been. (The Origin and Development of the Negro Race, p. 7).

I leave Cameron for he only decends from this point.  But such \"great\" preachers as the legendary orator N.B. Hardeman would refuse to shake hands with blacks.  He said he could say everything he \"wanted to say without the formality of shaking hands.\"  Keeble the great evangelist upbraided by Wallace was invited to the Lipscomb lectures each year but was not allowed to eat and fellowship with the white brethren there.  As I see it, the attitude displayed by Wallace -- easily the most influential preacher among us at the time -- was the prevailing view among \"us.\"  It is interesting to note that there is not on record a single protest to Wallace in any form.  

THE PROTEST/ALTERNATIVE TRADITION

Not all embraced the racist view of the prevailing culture.  The Stone Movement of the early 19th century, for example, was very \"progressive\" in its views towards blacks for its day.  They allowed blacks to worship in the Cane Ridge meeting house -- even though they sat in a balcony built just for them.  Most churches did not even allow that. In the 1830s through the 1850s the Disciples for the most part ignored the issue of slavery.  Alexander Campbell joined the Virginia Constitutional Convention in 1828 with a view towards abolishing slavery in that commonwealth. He failed. He wrote on the issue of slavery in the Millennial Harbinger and was opposed to the institution on political, economic and some moral grounds.  But by and large he did not forcefully address the issue.  But it is a fact that most blacks went with the more progressive Disciples of Christ after the split.

UNSUNG HERO OF THE ALTERNATE TRADITION: S.R. CASSIUS

One hundred years ago the only voice discussing the \"race issue\" among Churches of Christ was S. R. Cassius.  While many thought the Instrument, the Society, or the \"Woman\" question was the major hurdle of the church at the edge of the century.  Not so with Cassius.  He declared in bold language that it was the \"race issue.\"  He wrote passionatly in any journal that dared to print his articles. The Christian Leader, published out of Ohio, was open to his contributions.  He said, \"the race problem is the paramount issue of the day and only the church can settle it (\"Race Problem,\" Christian Leader [March 10, 1903], 9).  

Cassius wrote bitterly about the almost two hundred lynchings taking place a year -- many by so called \"Christians\" {even in the Churches of Christ}.  He was an outspoken critic of the segregation that was then coming into vogue in the late 1890's [Segregation became a legal doctrine in the Plessy v. Ferguson Supreme Court case in 1896 -- ironically it all started right here in New Orleans]. But Cassius was denied pulpits to preach and journals in which to write. Yet, he refused to be defeated.  He believed the bottom line was antiChristian race hatred plagued the brotherhood despite our claims to have restored NT Christianity.  He was told his race was inferior to whites. He responded by saying the problem was one of

full of race prejudice and hatred, inbred by three hundred years of schooling of a purely one-sided nature . . . I may arouse passions that will cause my people to be hung, shot and burned under every tree in the South, or I may start a wave of sympathy that will roll over the land which will make such common things impossible for these to occur agian. (\"The Race Problem\" Christian Leader [October 1, 1901], 12).  

I find it unnerving that Cassius mentions the possibility of violence against blacks for his views being published in a brotherhood paper.  Later Cassius responds explicitly to the superiority question:

If there is superiority in race give us an example of it by being better morally, physically and intellectually; and if God loves whites more than us, prove it by loving Him more and doing His will better than any other.  Then and not until then will I concede that you are better than I am\" (\"A Trip to the Golden State,\" Christian Leader [August 19, 1902], 5).

The majority, however, followed the prevailing winds of the time: blacks have no souls, that they are decendents of Cain or that they have the so-called \"Curse of Ham.\"  J.M. McCaleb (legendary missionary to Japan) was one who voiced some concern, along with Cassius.  He suggested opening up the Nashville Bible School to blacks -- he was corrected for his \"foolishness.\"  

J.D. Tant summed up the views of the majority.  Tant had taken a evangelistic tour of Kansas in 1898 and reported his adventure in the Gospel Advocate.  He writes of his sheer amazement of how well blacks were treated in that state.

Negro equality runs high here.  Negroes ride in the same coach, go to the same school, eat at the same table with white people, and sometimes sleep in the beds of their white neighbors; all of which I am glad to say, is NOT tolerated in 'heathen' Texas. (\"In Kansas,\" Gospel Advocate [February 5, 1898], 71).

THE SITUATION IN THE RECENT PAST

In 1960 Pepperdine was the only Church of Christ college to allow blacks to attend.  Although the Supreme Court had ruled in the Brown v. Board of Education (1954) that segregation was illegal none of our colleges opened up to blacks. It took the powerful homily of Carl Spain at the 1960 ACC Lectures and the threat of loosing Federal money to open the school in 1962.  Spain, said in a voice like Cassius, \"God forbid that the church of Christ, and schools operated by Christians, shall be the last refuge for socially sick people who have Nazi illusions about the Master Race . . . I feel certain Jesus would say 'Ye hypocrites!'\"  Harding opened up in 1963, followed by Lipscomb.  Freed-Hardeman was the last to capitulate but did so with a public apology to students in chapel over integration.

In 1968 the 20th Century Christian had the largest subscription base of any magazine in our brotherhood (save Christian Chronicle) with over 40,000.  In July of 1968 a special issue was run on \"Christ and Race Relations\" featuring articles by Clyde Muse, Roosevelt Wells, Zebedee Bishop and a number of white authors.  Almost immediately the subscription base dropped in half to under 20,000 -- where it remains to this day.  Surely this is not mere coincidence.

Many in the church simply labeled those who addressed the \"race issue\" as \"liberals\" who wish to change the gospel and purity of the Church.  The reaction of many to the Race Relations Workshop at the Simpson St. Church in Atlanta in June of 1968 was typical. The pages of the Firm Foundation carried strong denunciations in the following weeks -- including that of Reuel Lemmons.  One reaction, by Glen Wallace, in First Century Christianity claimed the goals of the workshop was to:

RESTRUCTURE the church. They want our pulpits to ring with the social gospel theme. They want the 'urban ministry' to become the cry of our day.  They are tired of the 'old rugged cross.'\" (\"The Atlanta Conference,\" [October 1968], 3, his emphasis]

Earlier in 1968 Marshall Keeble died (on April 20th).  His death was discussed in most brotherhood papers. Reuel Lemmons praised and eulogized Keeble, denounced the Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King Jr. He argued that Keeble had never suffered from discrimination in the Churches of Christ and that \"we are virtually free of race prejudice.\"  A black minister, Norman Adamson, responded to Lemmons in this manner:

I have searched myself deeply trying to decide if the editorial is based upon unbelievable racism on your part, gross ignorance of the conditions that have existed and still are very much in evidence in the Church, or maybe you were so emotionally upset by the death of Marshall Keeble that you have lost sight of reality. (Adamson in a private letter to Lemmons, quoted in Richard T. Hughes, Reviving The Ancient Faith, 296).

The fact of the matter is the Keeble was discriminated against nearly everyday of his life -- remember Wallace?  Most black Christians took considerable exception to the views of Lemmons or Rex Turner (who I have not had time to include) on Martin Luther King Jr.  We have heroes among us that stand in that \"Alternative\" tradition. They are folks like Fred D. Gray, minister of the Tuskegee Church of Christ, attorney for Dr. King, Rosa Parks, the Montgomery Improvement Association, the Selma marchers, etc; Roosevelt Wells, G.P. Holt, John Allen Chalk, and many, many others.  

We have two traditions: on prominent and the other quite \"distant.\"  But it is there and it refuses to be silent.  We can find value and courage for addressing our continual struggle with this issue in this second alternate stream of the Churches of Christ.

FIVE SUGGESTIONS FOR DIRECTION

1) Confess, Repent (as Nehemiah did) and take the Message of the Prophets seriously. Study Amos carefully for biblical justice and learn to practice love for neighbor.

2) Honestly talk and listen to each other.  Most of the time we talk at each other.  One cannot be dispassionate about this subject but until we actually start to understand one another nothing but sparks will fly.

3) Become open to Black History and make it your own. When you think of heroes include Benjamin Banneker, Frederick Douglass, Sojourner Truth, W.E.B. DuBois, Martin Luther King, Jr. along with George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.  When you think of great spiritual giants think of the black Alexander Campbell, the courage of S.R. Cassius, G.P. Bowser, Marshall Keeble, R. N. Hogan, and Fred D. Gray and many more.  Have a special black history day at your congregation during February each year for the purpose of getting to know the culture and heroes -- for expanding your experience and horizon.

4) Get involved with one another on many levels: congregationally and individually.  Get blacks integrated into your congregation. Use them in visible positions like deacons, elders, ministers. Support a black person going to a Christian collge.  Notice in Deuteronomy 15.12-18 when the \"slave\" was set free that it was the former owner who was commanded to make sure the one liberated was to be able to make it as a free person (\"supply him liberally from your own flock, your threshing floor, and your winepress. Give to him as the LORD has blessed you.\" [v.14].  This seems to suggest we are to help others in ways so they are never enslaved again!

5) Practive the biblical imperative of justice.  The Churches of Christ have not included this in the \"restoration\" agenda by and large.  The Gospel includes social ramifications that our brotherhood due to sin has not come to grips with. We must practice Justice, Mercy and Faithfulness.  Jesus said it, so it must be sound doctrine.

Finally we need a healthy dose of love, grace and forgiveness for each other.  Without that this enterprise is doomed before it gets started.\"
_

Thus ended my presentation in 1997. It was followed by lively debate but was nonetheless good natured.

Any Reactions,
Bobby Valentine
Milwaukee, WI

Bobby Valentine,


You have several pm's from me already.  Please read them and then I'll send you another one.

If memory serves me correctly, the information on McGarvey came out of Leroy Garrett's \"The Stone-Campbell Movement.\"   It has been a while since reading it so I could be mistaken.   I do remember reading what I said about McGarvey and it is a fact, though the source may be lost to my mind.  I confronted one of my old preachers who was the \"CoC or Gehenna\" types with the sin of McGarvey and told him if McFlunky could not be trusted to learn racism was wrong, he was not qualified to be an authority on instruments, baptism, ect.  

Foy Wallace was an opportunist who went around preaching because he was too lazy to get honest work as a field hand, which was about all he probably could do.  The fact your elders and preachers cowardly gave heed to such condemns them as illegitimate leaders and kiss ups.

[Bobby Valentine]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (david johnson @ Feb. 15 2003,5:12)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]i'm older than most of us here, and i always was taught about the eunuch, simon of cyrene, and the wife being black.
maybe the arkansas church of Christ(s) were always ahead of the editors in recognizing truth.
i'm sad so many folks have never figured this issue out and hateful things were said.

dj[/quote]
David praise God your experience did not match mine. However, I have some roots in Arkansas (Paragould) and know some sad attitudes in that area as well.  Perhaps they are isolated though.  I hope.

Shalom,
Bobby Valentine
Milwaukee, WI

I am glad David Lipscomb was against all that foolishness over race and allowed those men to write against it.

[spurly]

Bobby,

The article you linked to with letters by David Lipscomb and others was truly a joy to read.  Thanks for the link.  I am glad to see, that even well over 100 years ago, people were accepting other races and were willing to stand up for them - just like they were standing up for God.

I sadly remember when we tried to get children of a different race and socio-economic status to come to our church in eastern NC in the early 1990's.  Some of the same arguments used by the people in the article were used by some of the members of our church.  \"Let them worship with people of their own color\"; \"they won't enjoy our worship\", etc.  Luckily, the leaders of the church stood up for these children like David Lipscomb did over 100 years ago.

There was one line in the article I would like to quote and make further comment on.  It was this one:

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]
I tried to write this in the spirit of Christ, I know; for I hate to see strife in the church. We would like everything to be run nicely and in order. [/quote]

I hate it when people use this verse of Paul to say that if they don't like what is being done - or if some other people in the church don't like it - whether it is worshipping with people of other races, different worship styles, lifting hands, everyone praying out loud at the same time, or something else, it can't be done because it seems out of order to them.  This is a gross misrepresentation of Paul's words.  But so many people do that to advance their own personal agendas.  I pray I am never guilty of it.

Kevin

[Bobby Valentine]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (david johnson @ Feb. 16 2003,02:48)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]barry:

segregation = sin?  you must prove this.  
it's a distasteful practice ususally arising from prejudiced attitudes,  but that doesn't make it sin.

dj[/quote]
David, good morning from the land of beer and cheese. I read with great curiosity your question to Barry.  I need to ask you you if this is what you really want to say?  

Segregation is a sin.  Even if the word \"segregation\" is not used in Scripture it is still condemned.  It fails the Love your neighbor as yourself test, it fails the don't be a respector of persons test, it fails the justice test that pervades Scripture.  

Perhaps a refinement of the question would be in order.

Shalom,
Bobby Valentine
Milwaukee, WI

[Booty]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (david johnson @ Feb. 16 2003,04:48)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]barry:

segregation = sin?  you must prove this.  
it's a distasteful practice ususally arising from prejudiced attitudes,  but that doesn't make it sin.

dj[/quote]
You shall love your neighbor as yourself

Segregation has no part of this and as such is sin. Segregation is the result of racism. It is not simply a a distasteful practice ususally arising from prejudiced attitudes., it is a sinful practice arising from sinful attitudes.

Here I will go even farther, Paul is frequently perverted by legalists to allow judging with in the church body on trivial matters. To do this 1 Corinthians 5:12&13 are used,

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]12.For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?  
 13.  God judges those outside. \"Drive out the wicked person from among you.\"[/quote]

This conveniently takes the verses out of context where Paul was addressing the quite problematical church in Corinth which was given to horrible excesses, (e.g. a son sleeping with his father's wife.) Among the excesses Paul took the time to specifically enumerate was reviler, railer, is abusive,  loidoros, a blackguard.

I firmly consider racism as abusive and will not tolerate it period.

Now that may make me a prime candidate to be disfellowshipped by many who wallow in this filthy sin. So be it, for frankly I can not lose what I do not have and I do not have fellowship with a racist.    
 

Yes, Brojees, the perpetual liberal, certainly does have his limits, but like Paul my limits are not trivial foolishness like playing instruments in service or women wearing pants etc. My limits are in sharing fellowship with bigots who choose to abuse their brothers on the basis of colour.

[david johnson]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Barry Manners @ Feb. 16 2003,11:11)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]If only I hadn't promised Lee Wilson I would not invite Infidels over to GCM.

They would have a field day with David Johnson needing racism to be proven a sin.[/quote]
barry, et al:

these replies display an interesting rainbow.  the mental prisms through which our thoughts broadcast quickly filter out the possible unconsidered responses.

i have been in two communities where chruch segregation was voluntarily upheld by the black community.  without ill-will, they turned down invitations to combine with area white congregations of equal size.  there are times racial groups wish to remain identifiable and adopt a voluntary segregated cohesion among themselves, w/o it being sinful.

some of us always equate segregation with racsim.  i simply request proof of a concept and implicative questions appear coloring me as one wishing 'things' were as before.  i'm threatened with internet infidels having a field day over a question i did not even  ask?  as though ii's even believe in sin.  i like you as always, barry, but that one is a laugher!

dj

[Arkstfan]

I guess we have \"progressed\" in that our segergation is voluntary but we are a long way from being one people.

We remain locked into our comfort zones and don't reach across the artifical divide. A congregation I attended a few years ago probably did a better job in this matter than any I've been around. Located in a very white suburb they didn't shy away from interacting with a neighboring church that was as black as they were white (each had a sprinkling of members of the other race). After a rocky start a sister congregation relationship developed with a good amount of interaction. Together they could have been a large congregation of well over 500 but neither had the infrastructure to handle a merged congregation and neither was well located geographically to serve as a merged congregation so they stayed as seperate congregations serving their neighborhoods. The \"white\" congregation focused on serving senior citizens as its emphasis outreach and the \"black\" congregation focused on poor with children. Members with an interest in the other's project went over and served with the other. Rather than duplicating services  they would transport those with a need to the other (the white congregation had people who were skilled at getting services and assistance for the elderly and dealing with related gov't programs and vice versa).

About twice a year they would host a joint evening gathering a local meeting facility. One congregation would be responsible for presenting the devotional and the other responsible for singing and would alternate. The preachers for each congregation would emphasize that when they ate you shouldn't be at table with anyone from your congregation except your spouse or kids.

It was a nice step.

[James Rondon]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Why do we tolerate it the way we do?[/quote]
I believe that \"we\" tolerate racism the way that \"we\" do because of who it is that is racist. If the elders, preachers, teachers, and deacons were all anti-racism, things would be different. Unfortunately, the \"movers and shakers\"... the \"leadership\"... the whatever you want to call \"them\", are not all that way in the church. Some are either \"closet racists\", or someone in their family is, or... They know of \"Brother So and So\", who had always taught such \"sound\" lessons, and is highly respected in the \"brotherhood\". They know that this \"brother\" was clearly racist, so they keep silent... After all... To take a stand against racism would be to speak against him! And, if he is still alive, it would mean that he would need to repent!... If he didn't, well... We can't withdraw from \"Brother So and So\"!!! (cf. Gal. 1:10).

Aside from this, the \"people in the pews\" tend to elevate sins based upon the teaching from the pulpit... Be it in the form of the Sunday morning sermon, a series of lectures/\"Gospel Meetings\", a \"brotherhood\" paper, etc., etc.... What the preachers say, the people, largely in part, believe. If it's an issue to them, it becomes an issue to \"us\"... Likewise, if it's not an issue to them, it's not an issue to \"us\".

[Booty]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I believe that \"we\" tolerate racism the way that \"we\" do because of who it is that is racist. If the elders, preachers, teachers, and deacons were all anti-racism, things would be different. Unfortunately, the \"movers and shakers\"... the \"leadership\"... the whatever you want to call \"them\", are not all that way in the church. Some are either \"closet racists\", or someone in their family is, or... They know of \"Brother So and So\", who had always taught such \"sound\" lessons, and is highly respected in the \"brotherhood\". They know that this \"brother\" was clearly racist, so they keep silent... After all... To take a stand against racism would be to speak against him! And, if he is still alive, it would mean that he would need to repent!... If he didn't, well... We can't withdraw from \"Brother So and So\"!!! (cf. Gal. 1:10).[/quote]

Does any realize the depth of iniquity that exists in what James is proposing as a precipative and sustaining cause? Oh I suspect that sadly he has exposed the true cause, but I also see the depth of depravity that this reveals.

This must not stand. Each and everyone of us has the right and the RESPONSIBILITY to stand up and clarify when a heresy such as this is promulgated from our \"Leaders\". The very idea that a people could sit by tranquilly while such a despicable perversion of the Lord's gospel is perpetrated is totally unacceptable.

I for one do not care where, when or with whom, the minute I hear hate spewing from the pulpit, I will stand up and I will demand clarification of the speakers intent and I will denounce it if it is racist in the strongest terms. That is my sacred duty before my Lord, there is not and can not be any thought of \"Polite\" and \"Order\" in this issue or others like it. Where is the \"politeness\" and \"order\" in a sermon of HATE? And what place does a sermon of HATE have in the house of the Lord?

For me, to remain silent would be to join in the sin, period.

So knowing this, who would invite me to visit your church for Sunday services?






If this stand of mine and my admitted planned actions causes you discomfort for the uproar I might cause in your congregation, than perhaps it is time you went to Him in prayer and gave serious thought to what you are allowing to continue and why.

If only I hadn't promised Lee Wilson I would not invite Infidels over to GCM.

They would have a field day with David Johnson needing racism to be proven a sin.

[Barb1957]

Booty, if you and Sandi ever find yourselves in Nashville and have a chance to worship with us at the West End C of C congregation, please do. You would be most welcome. You'd love our preacher and elders!

I agree with you, racism shouldn't be tolerated or accepted from the pulpit and/or church leadership - or anywhere, but especially from them - what kind of leaders would that be? Certainly not Christlike ones!  But also just to add ... sometimes as much as we desire things to change for the better, for the right, it can also sometimes take time for God's Spirit to work in people.  Sometimes a change of heart toward people can be as instantaneous and miraculous as that of Saul (Paul) on the road to Damascus. With others, that change can take time and happens gradually.  Not to tolerate error, just saying that when someone is trying and desires to allow God to work in them and change them, we need to be patient, prayerful and helpful toward them.

[Barb1957]

Coolness, Booty!
Diggin' the 'fro smilie!