The prophetical argument for IM

[s1n4m1n]

Here is Psalm 98, which states that the New Testament church is to praise the Lord with instruments.

1 Sing to the LORD a new song,
       for he has done marvelous things;
       his right hand and his holy arm
       have worked salvation for him.
 2 The LORD has made his salvation known
       and revealed his righteousness to the nations.

 3 He has remembered his love
       and his faithfulness to the house of Israel;
       all the ends of the earth have seen
       the salvation of our God.

 4 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
       burst into jubilant song with music;

 5 make music to the LORD with the harp,
       with the harp and the sound of singing,

 6 with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn—
       shout for joy before the LORD, the King.

 7 Let the sea resound, and everything in it,
       the world, and all who live in it.

 8 Let the rivers clap their hands,
      Let the mountains sing together for joy; 9 let them sing before the LORD,
       for he comes to judge the earth.
       He will judge the world in righteousness
       and the peoples with equity.

Verses 1 to 3 are obvious references to Christ's crucifixion and glorious resurrection. The end of verse 9 speaks of His second coming; therefore the intervening verses are of the New Testament Church period. The response to Christ's victory is in verses 4 to 9a. Notice that instrumental music is a perfectly acceptable description of Christian thankful praise to God.

[James.]

It also says the seas and fish should be singing.  You see that the same way?  Would you deny my pet beta the right to lead in song next Sunday?

[Mere Nick]

It also says the seas and fish should be singing.  You see that the same way?  Would you deny my pet beta the right to lead in song next Sunday?

A singing fish isn't a big deal unless it knows 728b.

[s1n4m1n]

It also says the seas and fish should be singing.  You see that the same way?  Would you deny my pet beta the right to lead in song next Sunday?

Didn't we discuss this on the "earnest expectation of creation" in Romans topic on the Theology board in Romans?

Ken

[Johnb]

My problem with IM has nothing to do with scriptural arguments just poor arangement.  When you hear someone sing with a piano or organ in any other setting they are playing cords.  For some unknown reason in church they play the melody which makes it very difficult to follow.  Im doesn't bother me from a scriptural stand point I just perfer not to have it.

[Johnb]

Come on Ken what would the board be without at least 1 active thread on IM and Baptism.

[s1n4m1n]

It also says the seas and fish should be singing.  You see that the same way?  Would you deny my pet beta the right to lead in song next Sunday?

Sorry, that was Jimmy instead of James.

I don't know if "resound" is the same a singing. However, it may be worth a shot in some churches.

Ken

[s1n4m1n]

Come on Ken what would the board be without at least 1 active thread on IM and Baptism.

Hey, I've been holding back this particular tidbit for over a year.

Ken

[marc]

It also says the seas and fish should be singing.  You see that the same way?  Would you deny my pet beta the right to lead in song next Sunday?

A singing fish isn't a big deal unless it knows 728b.

Most of them start with "Take me to the river" for some reason.

[marc]

...

[blituri]

THIS DEFINES THE RETURN TO JERUSALEM AND IS NOT PROPHETIC

Psalms are BOAST songs and are connected with the King and Commanders of the Army.
This BOAST song delayed the RETURN for 16 years. After the second attempt to return the singers had to have some hair yanked to get them back to the old JEBUSITE HIGH PLACE.  Shortly afterward the temple disappears until it is the seat of Greek worship as the Abomination of Desolation.  At the time of Jesus it was called HEROD'S TEMPLE staffed with mostly mercinaries: He saw it as something to be TORN DOWN STONE BY STONE and all of the "holy things" put into a type of hell and a million non-converts killed.

Psa. 98:1 O sing unto the LORD a new song; for he hath done marvellous things:
        his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the VICTORY.
Psa. 98:2 The LORD hath made known his salvation:
        his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the HEATHEN.
Psa. 98:3 He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel:
        all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

When Christ came in the first advent the job was to DISPERSE everyone from Jerusalem so that Sodom or The Mother of Harlots could be destroyed.

People who SPOKE the Words of God in Christ woudl be despised and rejected and killed and sispersed AWAY from Jerusalem

Psa. 98:4 Make a joyful NOISE unto the LORD, all the earth:   
        make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.
Psa. 98:5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp;
        with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.
Psa. 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.

NOT MUSIC IN ANY SENSE:

1949. huwm, hoom; a primitive root (compare 2000); to make an uproar, or agitate greatly:—destroy, move, make a noise, put, ring again.

2000. hamam, haw-mam´; a primitive root (compare 1949, 1993); properly, to put in commotion; by implication, to disturb, drive, destroy:—break, consume, crush, destroy, discomfit, trouble, vex.

1993. hamah, haw-maw´; a primitive root (compare 1949); to make a loud sound like Engl. “hum”); by implication, to be in great commotion or tumult, to rage, war, moan, clamor:—clamorous, concourse, cry aloud, be disquieted, loud, mourn, be moved, make a noise, rage, roar, sound, be troubled, make in tumult, tumultuous, be in an uproar

After all they MOUNTED the walls patched up by DESTROYING houses of the OWNERS. 
Just like the PANIC SOUNDS including SOUNDS LIKE A HARP, this was a warning of JUDGMENT. The other angel to those STILL LIVING was to PREACH THE GOSPEL. Go preach: don't pay people to MOCK God's warning SOUNDS.

Psa. 98:7 Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
Psa. 98:8 Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together
Psa. 98:9 Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth:
     with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.

You might want to read Ezra and Nehemiah to understand something about the Captivity and Return. The king of Babylon had taken the people into Captivity: Amos and Isaiah say that it was because their rituals of wine, women and music  the people to STARVE for loss of the Word of God.

After 70 years the king of Persia did some dirty work on Babylon, while THEY were doing their musical party, and let the Jews go home to Jerusalem.  They destroyed lots of houses to rebuild the walls and a pitiful temple.  Psalms 95-99 are called the "royal psalms." The Psalms gave credit to God but the king of Persia did this as a political move: God moves in mysterious ways?  When people boast "our god can destroy your god" people get nervous since they are losing their property after 70 years.

    After 70 years the same story is told of Tyre after which the Temple in Jerusalem was built and operated as the worship of the starry host.

    Is. 23:15 And it shall come to pass in that day,
            that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king:
            after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.
    Is. 23:16 Take an harp, go about the city,
            thou harlot that hast been forgotten;
            make sweet melody, sing many songs,
            that thou mayest be remembered
    Is. 23:17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre,
            and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world
            upon the face of the earth.

    THE RETURN OR RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST

    And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places:
            thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations;
            and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach,
            The restorer of paths to dwell in. Isa 58:12
    If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath,
            from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
            and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord,
            honourable; and shalt honour him,

            not doing thine own ways,
            nor finding thine own pleasure,
            nor speaking thine own words: Isa 58:13

    Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord;
            and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth,
            and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father:
            for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. Isa 58:14

NO THREATENING OR TERORISM MUSIC IN THE SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE

The first problem was that they MOUNTED the Temple walls and made loud boasting music to be heard throughout the area. The Local Samaritans saw this BOASTING as a THREAT and to make a long story short, this BOASTING singing incited trouble and the Temple rebuilding was DELAYED for about 16 years.

The spiritual people had always attended synagogue beginning as the church in the wilderness where such loud vocal and instrumental noise was outlawed: they never did "worship service" in the Temple.  Most of the priestly class--priests, singers, warrior musicians, porter, collector of the tithes etc saw it as a joke and the temple is not heard of for a long period when the pagans has taken it over.  The "singers" especially decided that if they were going to EAT no one was going to feed them so they went home to their farms and business.  They left the wretched "house" to itself.

[s1n4m1n]

Of coarse this psalm is a BOAST. The Lord is boasting of his power, which in the supreme sense was accomplished on Calvary. Clearly this is a Messianic psalm. In fact, I'd say that St. Paul's comments such as Colossians 2:15 refer back to these very verses.

Do not disparage the Psalms for they speak of HIM!

Ken

[Johnb]

IM  The root of all evil  and all this time I thought it was money.

[s1n4m1n]

I'm surprised that no one had anything more substantive.

Is my thesis valid or not?

Ken

[DCR]

Here is Psalm 98, which states that the New Testament church is to praise the Lord with instruments.

1 Sing to the LORD a new song,
       for he has done marvelous things;
       his right hand and his holy arm
       have worked salvation for him.
 2 The LORD has made his salvation known
       and revealed his righteousness to the nations.

 3 He has remembered his love
       and his faithfulness to the house of Israel;
       all the ends of the earth have seen
       the salvation of our God.

 4 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
       burst into jubilant song with music;

 5 make music to the LORD with the harp,
       with the harp and the sound of singing,

 6 with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn—
       shout for joy before the LORD, the King.

 7 Let the sea resound, and everything in it,
       the world, and all who live in it.

 8 Let the rivers clap their hands,
      Let the mountains sing together for joy; 9 let them sing before the LORD,
       for he comes to judge the earth.
       He will judge the world in righteousness
       and the peoples with equity.

Verses 1 to 3 are obvious references to Christ's crucifixion and glorious resurrection. The end of verse 9 speaks of His second coming; therefore the intervening verses are of the New Testament Church period. The response to Christ's victory is in verses 4 to 9a. Notice that instrumental music is a perfectly acceptable description of Christian thankful praise to God.

Just to respond...

I don't really see "obvious" references to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection in verses 1-3.  The psalmist speaks of the Lord having done marvelous things and working salvation (which absolutely can apply to the crucifixion and resurrection).  But, I wouldn't call that "obvious" as it is a general statement that could apply to anything the Lord has done from the beginning of time with respect to salvation (though the events of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ are certainly the pivotal point in what the Lord has done throughout time).

Anyway, the verses that follow with the use of IM don't seem to necessarily chronologically "follow" what is said in verses 1-3.  The first three verses describe what the Lord has done, and the verses that follow simply "celebrate" what the Lord has done.  But, keep in mind that this Psalm was written long before the New Testament, when the worshipers celebrated what the Lord had done, even before the advent of Christ.  Do we now celebrate the works of the Lord with a different perspective compared to when the Psalm was written?  Certainly.

All that to say, to an ardent non-instrumentalist, I don't believe your thesis is particularly compelling.  They would put this Psalm in the same category as the rest of the Psalms, where it would be said that the IM used there was during Old Testament times, while no specific authority exists for it in the New Testament.  You'll get a wave of the hand and a "But, that's Old Testament" regardless of what the argument is, if it relies on Old Testament passages.

You're only allowed to quote Old Testament to imply that we can't use IM now (Noah and the gopherwood, Nadab & Abihu, etc.).